Planeswalkers work differently so they arn't an applicable comparison. Wizards themselves said they don't have a solution to the legendary werewolf problem so I doubt we can fix it.
Also, the counter only would work on miracles sometimes? Seems like an incredibly useless (and sorry to say, badly designed) mechanic.
The big issue I see with cards non-designers make is that they try to be all fancy and cool when simplicity is better almost always.
I was using entreat as an example. Any spell that doesn't target the creature triggers the flip, which triggers the counter, which counters that spell. It works on all spells that aren't targeting the creature.
according to this thread http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showthread.php?t=375433 started by our very own Macuis, the card works fin.
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Originally Posted by Arcadic View Post
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No, the legend rule works fine with only 1 in play. Imagine now I have Werewolf legend X in play. Side b is up on my side and my opponent has side a up. However, because of how the werewolf triggers work they will eventually always match up and die. But sometimes there will be points when they can simultaneously exist. It is incredibly inelegant (and difficult to understand for a majority of players) design. It functions, but it makes the card clunky and awkward.
Also, I'm pretty sure it's odd to have only half of the original werewolf trigger and one unique one. Yes, it's legendary but it is also against the entire rest of the theme. Again, poor design.
@Jivan, we just voted that down, remember?
I don't want a boring rg. I figure we could start the creature as a blue and make it turn into a black werewolf, and give it a different tranform trigger. This is just an example, but...
Another Face in the Cowd :sym1::symu:
Creature- Human Werewolf
Whenever the third spell of a turn is played,
transform Another Face in the Crowd.
1/1
////
Monster in the Alley
Creature--Werewolf (now black)
Monster in the Alley is unblockable.
4/1
Just an example of a werewolf with our flavor:)
We have plenty of time to shoot around ideas.
No, the legend rule works fine with only 1 in play. Imagine now I have Werewolf legend X in play. Side b is up on my side and my opponent has side a up. However, because of how the werewolf triggers work they will eventually always match up and die. But sometimes there will be points when they can simultaneously exist. It is incredibly inelegant (and difficult to understand for a majority of players) design. It functions, but it makes the card clunky and awkward.
Also, I'm pretty sure it's odd to have only half of the original werewolf trigger and one unique one. Yes, it's legendary but it is also against the entire rest of the theme. Again, poor design.
The trigger of two legends would stack, then kill both of them before any other things could resolve, but only if no other spells were played.
It functions just fine. If you want to shave off the traditional werewolf transformation that's fine and would make it simpler.
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Originally Posted by Arcadic View Post
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Yea I know digi, but I can't imagine being able to have a conversation involving actual design or goals using a forum. I mean, it can definitely be done but it's incredibly inefficient and something I'm completely unused to lol.
I like your design digi, the only issue is Werewolves are not terribly sneaky. I was thinking more on the lines of:
Distraught Voidmage
Creature- Human Wizard Werewolf
1/1
"UUUCounter target non-creature spell and flip ~"
///
Nihilistic Voidhowler
Creature-Wizard Werewolf
3/3
Whenever a non-creature spell is put into an opponents graveyard put a +1+1 counter on ~
When ~ has more then 3 counters on it, destroy it.
Obviously I have no idea about the casting cost or ability cost. But I was thinking this could be a u/g or u/b werewolf.
If we're going blue werewolf we should have a controlled transform trigger and not use the original at all. Blue is about control so the triggers should be able to be manipulated if not completely controlled.
Whenever ~ Enters the battle field or transforms into Side A, each player draws 3 cards
UB: Transform ~. Play this ability only at a time when you could cast a sorcery.
2/5
______________________________________
Master Necromancer (Now B)
Creature- Human Wizard
Whenever ~ Transforms into Side B, Each opponent sacrifices a creature.
3: Transform ~. Any player may play this ability, and only at a time they could cast a sorcery.
5/2
Name would need some tweaking, and costs and stuff are just what seems good, although it could probably be taken up to 1UUUU just to make it harder to cast.
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How bout this
Legndary Bounce Wizard :3mana::symu::symg:
when ~ etb or transforms to side A, bounce target permanent
when a creature dies, transform
1/2
Legendary Necromancer Wolf(Black)
when ~ transforms, return target creature from a graveyard to the battlefield with cc of 3 or less.
When 2 permanents etb, transform
4/3
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If you're always worried about crushing the ants beneath you...you won't be able to walk.
Justwaitforit 1U
When there are 10 or more creature cards in your graveyard, transform ~.
1/1
Bigbadbluebeatstick
At the beginning of each upkeep exile a creature card from your graveyard or sacrifice ~.
7/5
Turn one, Island, lotus petal, this
Turn two (assuming it's not a human) Forest, mox diamond discarding Dryad Arbor, Wings of Velis Vel, Moonmist, swing for 7, casual luls will be had
When Cursed Thief enters the battlefield, gain control of target creature.
At the beginning of each upkeep, if no spells were cast last turn, transform Cursed Thief.
3/3
//
Cursebringer
Creature(:symb:) - Werewolf
When Cursebringer transforms, sacrifice a creature.
All creatures you control are Wolves in addition to their other types.
Whenever a Wolf you control deals damage to a player, that player puts the top 2 cards of his/her library into his/her graveyard.
At the beginning of each upkeep, if a player cast two or more spells last turn, transform Cursebringer.
4/3
Don't know/care about power level or rarity, just seemed like interesting abilities to see on a creature.
Sorry for my lull in activity as of late, was celebrating my 21st(without alcohol believe it or not) with family and friends and got caught up in other stuff.
Edit: @Homestar: Is your new avatar Issac from Baccano? I loved Baccano.
Just thinkin' 'bout wolves, here's my contribution!
First image found on a wallpaper website, artist not available regrettably. Second image by Matt Howerter
VORTHOS: is he's really nervous and if you frighten him, he fluffs up his fur and looks more menacing.
Once the danger is gone, he's happy to lay low for a while.
MELVIN: relates to Vorthos, P/T literally doubles as he makes like a pufferfish or a porcupine
[EDIT] Have to fix instance of the word "his" on Night side
what about some type of U werewolf that flips into a B werewolf that kills a creature? sort of like nekratal He controls his transform, acts as a psuedo looter and isn't pure advantage, because you have to discard two cards to kill a creature.
2:u:
Creature - Human Scientist Werewolf
:tap: Draw a card, then discard two cards.
When you discard a card, transform ~
1/2
//
Creature - Werewolf Brute
When this creature transforms, destroy target non-black creature.
At the beginning of each upkeep, if a player cast two or more spells last turn, transform ~.
4/2
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Originally Posted by Arcadic View Post
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what about some type of U werewolf that flips into a B werewolf that kills a creature? sort of like nekratal He controls his transform, acts as a psuedo looter and isn't pure advantage, because you have to discard two cards to kill a creature.
2:u:
Creature - Human Scientist Werewolf
:tap: Draw a card, then discard two cards.
When you discard a card, transform ~
1/2
//
Creature - Werewolf Brute
When this creature transforms, destroy target non-black creature.
At the beginning of each upkeep, if a player cast two or more spells last turn, transform ~.
4/2
Seems like a good idea Yanni. I wonder how it will turn out.
@Yanni, that does look cool. I was hoping to do something more in Our color identifliers, though. I like where you are going, though...
My take on Yanni's
Faceless Market-Goer :1mana::symu:
Creature-- Human Werewolf
Whenever an opponant plays a spell during your turn, you may transform Faceless Marketgoer.
1/1
///// (turns black)
Distraction in the Crowd
Creature-- Werewolf
All spells that could target Distraction in the Cowd must do so.
3/2
ughhhh been a long, week......and not a good one but any way
my take on a flip card
Curious Lobotomist 1UB
creature- Human
tap: look at your opponents hand and choose a non-land/noncreature card from it and discard it, Transform Curious Lobotomist
0/3
/////////
Crazed Specter
Creature - human/spirit
U: mill the top 4 cards from target players library, if this is the 3rd time this ability was activated this turn transform Crazed Specter
1/5
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"Unfortunately, all of my test animals have died or escaped, so i shall be the final subject. I feel no fear. This is a momentous night."
--Laboratory notes, final entry
@the non werewolf ideas:
We will have two other chances at a nonwerewolf flip. In round one, we must submit a werewolf. So please put a pin in the other ideas until we get there.
you could always just tag werewolf on to the end of mine XDi dont think the lobotomist would mind
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"Unfortunately, all of my test animals have died or escaped, so i shall be the final subject. I feel no fear. This is a momentous night."
--Laboratory notes, final entry
the better question, is why wouldnt the Dimir Employ Werewolves.....no one would ever expect it at all......and i'm pretty sure we have worse on our payroll .....rats for example...
edit: atleast the werewolves are potty trained..........and if they get out of line we can simply roll up a newspaper and hit them on the nose with it
"Unfortunately, all of my test animals have died or escaped, so i shall be the final subject. I feel no fear. This is a momentous night."
--Laboratory notes, final entry
The only reasons the Dimir would employ werewolves, imo, is to cause a distraction while something else gets overlooked. Any other ideas?
We would certainly employ green or red wolves. But why do that when we can breed our own?
I think the idea behind Dimirwolves is a scientist was messing around with some experimental drug, put it in himself, turned into a wolf.
Which is why I like my idea of the Nekratal Wolf because the wizard, who was drawing you cards, turns into a brute that Dimir uses to kill dudes.
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Originally Posted by Arcadic View Post
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yea, i'm with yanni, Dimir-werewolves, would most certainly be product of some meddling mage, or a scientist that decided he wanted to "improve" upon the disease trying to make them faster, stronger or ...more controlled and accidentally turned himself into one, decided it wasnt a half bad idea and started making more and more were-wolves, i mean really... a UB Were-wolf is a terrifying thought really......Were-wolves that can create illusions of themselves, amplify their own abilities, turn invisible, or make themselves fly, block other spell-casters from casting......and ravage their enemies minds as well as their bodies....its ...its... so Dimirish...I LIKE IT!!!!!
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"Unfortunately, all of my test animals have died or escaped, so i shall be the final subject. I feel no fear. This is a momentous night."
--Laboratory notes, final entry
Dimir werewolves would be more along the lines of "Warwick" from LoL. In addition a Dimir werewolf would not be run by emotions or instinct like an Innistrad one would. Perhaps a werewolf with more sense of self whose impulses lead more toward murderous tendencies rather than bestial ones.
I was using entreat as an example. Any spell that doesn't target the creature triggers the flip, which triggers the counter, which counters that spell. It works on all spells that aren't targeting the creature.
according to this thread http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showthread.php?t=375433 started by our very own Macuis, the card works fin.
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Also, I'm pretty sure it's odd to have only half of the original werewolf trigger and one unique one. Yes, it's legendary but it is also against the entire rest of the theme. Again, poor design.
I don't want a boring rg. I figure we could start the creature as a blue and make it turn into a black werewolf, and give it a different tranform trigger. This is just an example, but...
Another Face in the Cowd :sym1::symu:
Creature- Human Werewolf
Whenever the third spell of a turn is played,
transform Another Face in the Crowd.
1/1
////
Monster in the Alley
Creature--Werewolf (now black)
Monster in the Alley is unblockable.
4/1
Just an example of a werewolf with our flavor:)
We have plenty of time to shoot around ideas.
Putting the sexy in Science Fiction!
gamertag: filthychocolate
The trigger of two legends would stack, then kill both of them before any other things could resolve, but only if no other spells were played.
It functions just fine. If you want to shave off the traditional werewolf transformation that's fine and would make it simpler.
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I like your design digi, the only issue is Werewolves are not terribly sneaky. I was thinking more on the lines of:
Distraught Voidmage
Creature- Human Wizard Werewolf
1/1
"UUUCounter target non-creature spell and flip ~"
///
Nihilistic Voidhowler
Creature-Wizard Werewolf
3/3
Whenever a non-creature spell is put into an opponents graveyard put a +1+1 counter on ~
When ~ has more then 3 counters on it, destroy it.
Obviously I have no idea about the casting cost or ability cost. But I was thinking this could be a u/g or u/b werewolf.
If we're going blue werewolf we should have a controlled transform trigger and not use the original at all. Blue is about control so the triggers should be able to be manipulated if not completely controlled.
When there are 10 or more creature cards in your graveyard, transform ~.
1/1
Bigbadbluebeatstick
At the beginning of each upkeep exile a creature card from your graveyard or sacrifice ~.
7/5
RIP Eggs
My Trade Thread
2UUU
Creature- Human Wizard
Whenever ~ Enters the battle field or transforms into Side A, each player draws 3 cards
UB: Transform ~. Play this ability only at a time when you could cast a sorcery.
2/5
Creature- Human Wizard
Whenever ~ Transforms into Side B, Each opponent sacrifices a creature.
3: Transform ~. Any player may play this ability, and only at a time they could cast a sorcery.
5/2
Name would need some tweaking, and costs and stuff are just what seems good, although it could probably be taken up to 1UUUU just to make it harder to cast.
Whilst the multitudes go about their business, we listen; we skulk; we watch and see all. Do you yourself possess the necessary skills and aptitude to join our hidden ranks?
My Xbox Live gamertag is A3t0s - Hit me up for Bops or Bops 2 anytime
Legndary Bounce Wizard :3mana::symu::symg:
when ~ etb or transforms to side A, bounce target permanent
when a creature dies, transform
1/2
Legendary Necromancer Wolf(Black)
when ~ transforms, return target creature from a graveyard to the battlefield with cc of 3 or less.
When 2 permanents etb, transform
4/3
Probably the best one so far.
Turn one, Island, lotus petal, this
Turn two (assuming it's not a human) Forest, mox diamond discarding Dryad Arbor, Wings of Velis Vel, Moonmist, swing for 7, casual luls will be had
Bloodflow Overseer
of House Dimir
Creature - Human Werewolf
When Cursed Thief enters the battlefield, gain control of target creature.
At the beginning of each upkeep, if no spells were cast last turn, transform Cursed Thief.
3/3
//
Cursebringer
Creature(:symb:) - Werewolf
When Cursebringer transforms, sacrifice a creature.
All creatures you control are Wolves in addition to their other types.
Whenever a Wolf you control deals damage to a player, that player puts the top 2 cards of his/her library into his/her graveyard.
At the beginning of each upkeep, if a player cast two or more spells last turn, transform Cursebringer.
4/3
Don't know/care about power level or rarity, just seemed like interesting abilities to see on a creature.
Sorry for my lull in activity as of late, was celebrating my 21st(without alcohol believe it or not) with family and friends and got caught up in other stuff.
Edit: @Homestar: Is your new avatar Issac from Baccano? I loved Baccano.
First image found on a wallpaper website, artist not available regrettably. Second image by Matt Howerter
VORTHOS: is he's really nervous and if you frighten him, he fluffs up his fur and looks more menacing.
Once the danger is gone, he's happy to lay low for a while.
MELVIN: relates to Vorthos, P/T literally doubles as he makes like a pufferfish or a porcupine
[EDIT] Have to fix instance of the word "his" on Night side
Bloodflow Overseer
of House Dimir
2:u:
Creature - Human Scientist Werewolf
:tap: Draw a card, then discard two cards.
When you discard a card, transform ~
1/2
//
Creature - Werewolf Brute
When this creature transforms, destroy target non-black creature.
At the beginning of each upkeep, if a player cast two or more spells last turn, transform ~.
4/2
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Seems like a good idea Yanni. I wonder how it will turn out.
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My take on Yanni's
Faceless Market-Goer :1mana::symu:
Creature-- Human Werewolf
Whenever an opponant plays a spell during your turn, you may transform Faceless Marketgoer.
1/1
///// (turns black)
Distraction in the Crowd
Creature-- Werewolf
All spells that could target Distraction in the Cowd must do so.
3/2
Obviously not worded like that.
Putting the sexy in Science Fiction!
gamertag: filthychocolate
flavor text for Angel of Benevolence "Teehe" flavor text for Angel of Vengence "**** YOU!"
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my take on a flip card
Curious Lobotomist 1UB
creature- Human
tap: look at your opponents hand and choose a non-land/noncreature card from it and discard it, Transform Curious Lobotomist
0/3
/////////
Crazed Specter
Creature - human/spirit
U: mill the top 4 cards from target players library, if this is the 3rd time this ability was activated this turn transform Crazed Specter
1/5
--Laboratory notes, final entry
We will have two other chances at a nonwerewolf flip. In round one, we must submit a werewolf. So please put a pin in the other ideas until we get there.
Putting the sexy in Science Fiction!
gamertag: filthychocolate
--Laboratory notes, final entry
Putting the sexy in Science Fiction!
gamertag: filthychocolate
edit: atleast the werewolves are potty trained..........and if they get out of line we can simply roll up a newspaper and hit them on the nose with it
--Laboratory notes, final entry
The only reasons the Dimir would employ werewolves, imo, is to cause a distraction while something else gets overlooked. Any other ideas?
We would certainly employ green or red wolves. But why do that when we can breed our own?
Putting the sexy in Science Fiction!
gamertag: filthychocolate
Which is why I like my idea of the Nekratal Wolf because the wizard, who was drawing you cards, turns into a brute that Dimir uses to kill dudes.
scumbag
Want Higher Level Card Evaluation? Visit Diestoremoval.com
yea, i'm with yanni, Dimir-werewolves, would most certainly be product of some meddling mage, or a scientist that decided he wanted to "improve" upon the disease trying to make them faster, stronger or ...more controlled and accidentally turned himself into one, decided it wasnt a half bad idea and started making more and more were-wolves, i mean really... a UB Were-wolf is a terrifying thought really......Were-wolves that can create illusions of themselves, amplify their own abilities, turn invisible, or make themselves fly, block other spell-casters from casting......and ravage their enemies minds as well as their bodies....its ...its... so Dimirish...I LIKE IT!!!!!
--Laboratory notes, final entry