Well I guess that's that, I am not afraid to post as much as I am reluctant to post, I still enjoy reading posts here but just don't have as much to input as the more exciting people such as Daggs/DUX. Maybe I am only still in it for old times sake and long lost feelings of effort and care, well it's clear that whatever friendship I had with ria is gone now despite the fact I always assumed we were on good terms even if we have been distant for awhile now. I still enjoy reading the interesting posts here and will continue to do so as long as the called is alive and kicking, maybe even the odd post if I feel welcome, that brings me to my next thing.
I don't feel welcome here any more, it's clear that ria doesn't think I belong here and I guess I don't post enough to be relevant, so I have thought it over and decided that I am going to call it quits, I don't know where I went wrong to receive such a response, I guess it could be not posting here or something about gutters, no hard feelings anyway.
I guess this is goodbye but not forever (hoping I will be welcomed back for the odd post?) but even if I am leaving I enjoyed my time here and tag or not I will always be called.
Peace out
I really don't think he's having a go at you, it's just housekeeping, you don't post here that much and he just wants to move you from "official" to "sometimes". I think it was just phrased badly, don't take it as him wanting you to leave forever!
@DUX: Helvault was stock standard here, I just got a D20, a giant Griselbrand and two Angel/Demon tokens. We had no shenanigans with special promos!
Y'all are acting like children. Get the sass out of your posting this instant
I can't believe you guys are actually trying to throw people out of the clan. As if there was a hope in hell that the majority of member would want any one member out of here. For shame. It's pretty stupid being a part of the clan when people are going to drag a vendetta in here, because it's going to do a lot more damage then they hoped.
teef, don't call it quits just because one member is kicking up drama. You're still welcome here.
I had no plans of calling for anyones removal, and quite frankly while not exactly everyone has weighed in I do feel unwelcome. If ria can be childish to the point of detonating the batcave, calling for several members to be removed, and possibly pushing teefo out of the clan, then I'm not even sure I want to be involved at all tbh. While I recognize ria is probably the most tenured and one of the most notable members of our clan, but when did it become more about one person than the clan in general? This is incredibly disappointing to me on so many levels, and hopefully someone like Daggs or Yukes will come in and set us all straight
Eds: And yes, we are acting like children. Both of us. This **** should stop.
Edit edit: Also I realize that all the links to the ria/kpaca aim chat of infamy have been deleted retroactively. I'm not going to point fingers as to this, but I feel as though anyone who has not read said chat and is yet conjecturing based on said chat, should at least read the chat. I'm not sure what to tell you though.
Triple eds: I mean, I'm not even on good terms with Cyan either but I still vote no to his removal, as well as no to everyone elses removal except I guess ria since my vote has already been placed there by ria. Consider me in the no one should leave camp, which is not being counted. Actually:
/boot:
kpaca – rianalnn, DUX
Cyan – rianalnn, DUX
rianalnn – kpaca
/sometimes
TFO – rianalnn, DUX
Diggy – rianalnn, DUX, Talore
/everyone should stay: Teefo (no longer a member), Clock King (probably not technically a member), Talore (still a member), kpaca (probably not technically a member), CharlieD (since he didn't vote and clearly we are allowed to just characterize this votecount however best fits our argument).
@Kpaca: I don't think you can play too high and mighty there, I got kicked out of the gutter because, to quote you, 'I am pretty much your least favorite person on here'. And the reasoning for that is the same as here. And the gutter is your real clan, and has been for some time. No one begrudges you that, but it is what it is.
Anyway. I will step down from the clan. It is the right thing for me to do. It is my fault, and no one else's, though I am not going to elaborate more on that in a public venue that any random person can read. I'll try to come back later when I have righted some wrongs.
@Kpaca: I don't think you can play too high and mighty there, I got kicked out of the gutter because, to quote you, 'I am pretty much your least favorite person on here'. And the reasoning for that is the same as here. And the gutter is your real clan, and has been for some time. No one begrudges you that, but it is what it is.
Anyway. I will step down from the clan. It is the right thing for me to do. It is my fault, and no one else's, though I am not going to elaborate more on that in a public venue that any random person can read. I'll try to come back later when I have righted some wrongs.
Right, like I said, I'm not exactly on good terms with you. Part of that is that I don't particularly like you (which you just noted). However, I have never desired for you to not be part of the called to the point that I would actively call for such a thing. Furthermore, that's not the explicit reason I booted you from the gutter, and I'm not sure why you are saying you are quoting me, because I didn't intimate why I kicked you out of the gutter until after I did, if at all. And considering you can't see the gutter once you're kicked out, yeah. Furthermore if the gutter is my clan and not the called I guess the same is true for Tlo, Teef, and JJ? Get real dude. I can't believe this is becomeing "kpaca sold out the called to the gutter". Then again, I should probably just put as much stock into that opinion as I do to most of your opinions, which is to say, zero.
But you know what Cyan? Despite all of that above paragraph, I still don't want you to lead the clan. Call it trying to act high and mighty if you want, but ask yourself this, please: If I really truly didn't want you in the clan, do you think I'd hesitate to say that? I'm pretty sure we both know the answer.
tl;dr: We should all be mature enough to not have to hold hands while we share a "social space". This is incredibly juvenile.
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Alright...so much drama over the weekends...and if people would actually pay attention...I don't goes on the intarwebs on the weekends. I do want any hard working American should do, and surf the web at work!
So to attend to this little tussle we have going on here....
kpaca - While I have no beef with you and we get along rather well, I do believe that airing your aim conversations and pms with Rian over the issues that occurred with kijin in a manner that allows for people to completely misconstrue to exchange was very bad form. I do believe that it served kijin rather well as ammunition for the "remove Rianalnn from Admin" campaign and added unnecessary fuel to the growing fire. I feel that you took a conversation that Rian felt he was having with a clan mate, more open ended and raw, and allowed it to be used against him to help kijin's cause. I must say, that was wrong. I think you should've filtered yourself and cooled off before you plopped that down. I think that was an action unbecoming of a clan mate. You know as well as I that kijin's de-modding was coming no matter what happened. While I feel he did a good job in the forum he was modding, the pansy-assed posters can't take any criticism that isn't supportive on this site and the Admins are always going to do whatever's possible to avoid conflict with the user base. All that aside...I can see why you are being asked to resign from the clan by Rian....there is a complete lack of trust in his end now.
So here's my assessment, and I base this on my previous experience....pull yourself out for a little bit. I'm not sure if a complete boot is necessary....but pull yourself out of the clan for a while. I don't You think a total disconnect is necessary, I completely understand. It was the best thing for me. You're being asked to resign because there isn't trust there between members. There is a fear that any conversation you have outside of MTGS could be aired against them on this site, or through other mediums. Trust is all we really rely on when we have discussions off this site...and I believe that has been broken. But I do think it can be fixed....I just don't know how right now. The Gutter and all that crap has nothing to do with any of this...I just think it's the trust thing.
Teefo - His inactivity is a little rough for some to handle. I completely understand not having anything to say. I don't think there's anything wrong with that. But...if you don't contribute to the discussion, it's hard to see you as an active member. Being a sometimes member isn't being booted out...it's just a status update for the member log. Not a big deal.
Cyan - I mean, there's not much to say there. I know why you're being asked to leave and I think you do as well. I hope you live up to your word. 'Nuff said.
Diggy - inactive member...see ya.
Talore - I think you're blowing this way out of proportion. There are times when actions need to be taken when you involve a **** load people with different dynamics. While you think you know the crux of it all....I don't think you do. I value your opinion, so I hope that you can put aside the personal feelings and try to see this all objectively.
Rianalnn - You and I have had or issues...I realize that we have both come a long way from those times. I consider you my friend, and I understand you intentions as a clan member who holds the status of this clan to your heart...but your tact leaves something to be desired. You and I have talked many times...so I hope that my words don't come as a shock to you. This clan is now, and always shall be a democracy. I think you should be keeping the vote for "no changes" in you posts. While there are issues between the members of this clan....CALLED Drama shall always persist....those being accused and asked to change their position in this clan are still a part of this clan and their word/position deserves to be heard. You and I also have the ability to speak our minds in this thread. We are certainly the most outspoken. But I think everyone's voice should be accounted for.
CK - You're alright in my book. You can be overbearing and annoying with your "anti-MTGSMods, they suck and they are all dumbassjerkoffs". Everyone in here knows that's true to an extent...I think we can just drop that whole thing in here. But I don't think you need to be booted....I think your opinion has merit. I like reading your input and think it's ok to hate the man.
As for Rianalnn's ability to admin the site. He is perfect for the job. He truly cares about the state of the site. I think that he cares a bit much, to the extent that he and the other admins cater too much to the whiners and their petty grievances toward the Gutter and the people who frequent it. People are gonna get offended. You can't make everyone happy. Tossing people out of the "Privileged" areas of the site is stupid and petty. I think it causes unwarranted tensions elsewhere when they can't blow off steam when they need to is a recipe for disaster! That rule should be changed...it no longer applies since the mods in those areas have the ability to calm people down. I think it needs to be viewed this way....Jimmy has a bunch of friends...some of which you don't agree with. Jimmy gets in trouble with the coach of his Parks and Rec baseball team. You, as his parent, tell him that he isn't allowed to interact with his friends for 40 days. That just seems stupid to me.
So there you have it. Please feel free to talk openly about what I posted. I want to hear it, so give it to me.
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"Talkin outta turn....That's a paddlin'. Starin' at my sandals....That's a paddlin'. Paddlin' the school canoe....You better believe that's a paddlin'!" --Jasper
Right, I completely recognize the arguments being explained to me. Have you reads the convo though? What would your thoughts be if someone you had invested a large amount of time getting to know and actually creating an internet friendship (lol internet world amirite) with, informed you that you were worthless to them in a completely rude way. Dude came at me basically. Like if you read the convo, I'm pretty sure you can tell that it's not like an open discussion of beliefs was possible. I was pretty much told I was a faceless internet troll, by someone who I thought actually had personally connected with me. I feel as though I'm not the one who did the back turning here. While it's probably true that my anger over this prompted me to say "**** him to", I feel as though my "**** him to" was justified. Also, in no way was my involvement in that thread at all related to trying to keep Kijin on the staff. I legitimately thought then and do now that the situation was disgusting and should result in an overall. Stop trying to paint this as a kpaca stands up for the gutter thing, and this goes for all of you. Unless you can back that up more than "herf derf you post in the gutter instead of this thread" then can that line of nonsense please. Like at least educate yourself as to the arguments leading to the issues. Have any of you read my gutterposts? It's not like they're content ridden or thought inducing diatribes. Furthermore, in no way was that AIM conversation misconstrued. It's not like I hid my involvement nor did I try and hide anything about it. If people cannot answer for their own actions, why should that be my fault? I can and will stand by anything I have said or done in any capacity if I was questioned on it. Like, please, read that aim convo, and tell me how much loyalty you'd think you need to have to someone who told you "block me from your aim and forget we were ever friends"? Answer that question for me please if nothing else.
I'd implore you to read it but someone has retroactively deleted the posts. Wonder who that was?
Edit: Also I'm not going into a temporary timeout corner, sorry. Maybe that worked for you but that's some childish jive. If/When the time comes, I'll leave on some grown man ****.
Eds: And you are clearly joking yourself if you think this clan is still a democracy. This clan is a riocracy and after hearing opinions of a few other clan members, I no longer feel as though this is something that needs to go unsaid. At this point I do not care if I'm ousted for saying it either. You can take it as my last will and testament if you want. I loved the called, I was called before I ever interacted with the gutter, and I made more personal connections with people in the called than I ever did with the gutter. The gutter is a video game for me, the called was my real clubhouse. To me we were like the little rascals, and sometimes we'd get mad or have distaste with each other, but we were still the called. What has happened recently is disgusting. We are completely fractured, disjointed, and dying. When Daggs brought it up I ignored it, in my mind saying it wasn't true. Evidently his was correct. The cave is gone, deleted unilaterally by Ria. Near half of the members are being called for some sort of forced removal. It is quite clear that the tone is that certain members hold more sway and have a stronger voice than anyone else. That's cool. Ria has been here longer than most and has been our most influential member, this is undeniable. If anyone should be Mubarak it should be him. This is a crap fest of epic proportions.
Right, I completely recognize the arguments being explained to me. Have you reads the convo though? What would your thoughts be if someone you had invested a large amount of time getting to know and actually creating an internet friendship (lol internet world amirite) with, informed you that you were worthless to them in a completely rude way. Dude came at me basically. Like if you read the convo, I'm pretty sure you can tell that it's not like an open discussion of beliefs was possible. I was pretty much told I was a faceless internet troll, by someone who I thought actually had personally connected with me. I feel as though I'm not the one who did the back turning here. While it's probably true that my anger over this prompted me to say "**** him to", I feel as though my "**** him to" was justified. Also, in no way was my involvement in that thread at all related to trying to keep Kijin on the staff. I legitimately thought then and do now that the situation was disgusting and should result in an overall. Stop trying to paint this as a kpaca stands up for the gutter thing, and this goes for all of you. Unless you can back that up more than "herf derf you post in the gutter instead of this thread" then can that line of nonsense please. Like at least educate yourself as to the arguments leading to the issues. Have any of you read my gutterposts? It's not like they're content ridden or thought inducing diatribes. Furthermore, in no way was that AIM conversation misconstrued. It's not like I hid my involvement nor did I try and hide anything about it. If people cannot answer for their own actions, why should that be my fault? I can and will stand by anything I have said or done in any capacity if I was questioned on it. Like, please, read that aim convo, and tell me how much loyalty you'd think you need to have to someone who told you "block me from your aim and forget we were ever friends"? Answer that question for me please if nothing else.
I'd implore you to read it but someone has retroactively deleted the posts. Wonder who that was?
Edit: Also I'm not going into a temporary timeout corner, sorry. Maybe that worked for you but that's some childish jive. If/When the time comes, I'll leave on some grown man ****.
Eds: And you are clearly joking yourself if you think this clan is still a democracy. This clan is a riocracy and after hearing opinions of a few other clan members, I no longer feel as though this is something that needs to go unsaid. At this point I do not care if I'm ousted for saying it either. You can take it as my last will and testament if you want. I loved the called, I was called before I ever interacted with the gutter, and I made more personal connections with people in the called than I ever did with the gutter. The gutter is a video game for me, the called was my real clubhouse. To me we were like the little rascals, and sometimes we'd get mad or have distaste with each other, but we were still the called. What has happened recently is disgusting. We are completely fractured, disjointed, and dying. When Daggs brought it up I ignored it, in my mind saying it wasn't true. Evidently his was correct. The cave is gone, deleted unilaterally by Ria. Near half of the members are being called for some sort of forced removal. It is quite clear that the tone is that certain members hold more sway and have a stronger voice than anyone else. That's cool. Ria has been here longer than most and has been our most influential member, this is undeniable. If anyone should be Mubarak it should be him. This is a crap fest of epic proportions.
I think you misunderstood my intent there. I read the conversation. It was sick and stupid on both accounts. I think both of you handled the whole thing childishly. I'll tell you now....if the clan has become or becomes a dictatorship....I'll resign. I don't think that's happened yet, and I hope it doesn't. That said, you were both in the wrong. Rian let his feelings and emotions take over his posting that night...but you did too. I also don't think this is a gutter issue either, but kijin is someone you talk to outside of this site. You both get along with each other very well. I'm sure you consider him a friend of yours in some sense, am I wrong there? I also don't think rage quitting is the answer here. Are we divided....yeah I'm sure there is that much going on right now. I'm trying to be unbiased here.
if you don't want to resign, that's fine. You have every right to maintain your status in this clan. If it dissolves the clan as a result, so be it...that just means it wasn't as strong as we all believed. Personally....with the exception of Cyan...I think this whole thing is nothing more than hurt feelings and trust issues. I like to think that each and every person in this clan could say or do whatever they wanted to each other, knowing full well that their conversations aren't going to be broadcast openly for others to read and judge out of context of the relationship. As an Admin and a clanmate I think Rian over reacted, to an extent, in his conversations with you before you posted it on the thread. I think you were wrong for making that conversation public. But let's both be honest here, if you think that you aren't a troll in most instances when enter into a thread preparing for conflict, then you're kidding yourself. You know, as well as I, that even though you are speaking you mind about things that need to be aired, you, kpaca, are fully aware that you are trolling. Even if you do it with the sweetest of delivery. You take great delight in your ability to do so without coming off as one. That entire thread was riddled with trolling and finger pointing. The whole intent of the thread was to provide an open forum for users to do so.
I think you were both idiots in there. Does that make me hate either of you? No! But this clan bases itself around the ability to trust each other within our group.
I don't know what else to write here. I'm dealing with a very similar issue in my home life with my 17 year old son. When I figure that **** out, I'll have more for ya.
kpaca should step out until trust issues can be resolved or re-established...but that's only if anyone cares to make amends or attempt something.
Cyan should leave
CK can stay but stop beating a dead horse
teefo should be sometimes, but he already rage quit
diggy is out because he's gone mia
EDS: Disjointed clan mates aren't a means to an end. Resolution is always a possibility. And yes....I agree with your assessment of clan versus gutter...you're right, you were called before you were gutter. I see it the same way you do. But no matter which way you look at it, you were wrong for posting the conversation. Even though you asked and or told him you were going to do it. That shouldn't have even popped into your head to do it. He agreed because he didn't think he said anything wrong. I'm sure he would think differently after cooling off first. His comments were not good...but neither were yours. He's an admin and your not...nobody is going to care what you say, but they are going to think differently about him because of his position on the site. Cooler heads did not prevail on this one. Plus....these posts are opinions...let's not forget that. We don't all have to agree without a fight.
Warning for innapropriate use of the word "retarded" - LN
"Talkin outta turn....That's a paddlin'. Starin' at my sandals....That's a paddlin'. Paddlin' the school canoe....You better believe that's a paddlin'!" --Jasper
I'm not offended at being called a troll. There's a major difference between a someone telling you "you troll" and someone who you thought was your legitimate friend (not some faux internet niceties), telling you "you are nothing more to me than a faceless internet troll".
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I can't defend that. I think Rian came into that conversation with you thinking he was talking to a friend and proceeded to offend you. I think he over-reacted and said the wrong things. I think his actions were that of someone with a hot temper that felt like he was being attacked in the thread. I think he could've handled it better than he did. I think you were wrong for posting that conversation to everyone on the site, even though you told him you were going to do it, and he agreed. I don't think that should have even been brought to light. You shouldn't have even thought about posting that for everyone to see. As a clanmate and "friend", I think you should've backed out of the situation and said something like, "I don't really think you're saying what you mean right now because you're clearly pissed off. I think we should both cool off and approach this crap later on."
But that's just me....
I'm being honest.
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"Talkin outta turn....That's a paddlin'. Starin' at my sandals....That's a paddlin'. Paddlin' the school canoe....You better believe that's a paddlin'!" --Jasper
Consider me on indefinite leave. I do want to make amends, and do not want to leave this clan, however, I am not willing to be a part of actions I think may result in the destruction of the thing on MTGS (don't believe me if you want to, whatever) that I actually held most dear.
If any sort of reconciliation is happening, if you'd shoot me a pm jonski, I'd very much appreciate it.
I'd like to hear what DUX and Rian have to say about my posts. I invite everyone to call me out on anything I got wrong. I think what is being aired here today is necessary for this place to move on. I don't think rage quits are necessary and I think that a resolution can be made that everyone is happy with. We've had drama in the past...I mean, we're CALLED!
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"Talkin outta turn....That's a paddlin'. Starin' at my sandals....That's a paddlin'. Paddlin' the school canoe....You better believe that's a paddlin'!" --Jasper
teefo should be sometimes, but he already rage quit
I am not rage quitting, there was no anger involved in me making this decision, simply that I no longer feel welcome, that has not ever happened in a called thread before, I have never ever felt unwelcome until ria made that post.
Call it a wake up call or whatever but I guess ria is half right, I don't post enough, why am I even here? I guess caring enough about the clan and reading up isn't really enough to constitute being a member here so I am taking my leave, I am at peace with the fact that I am no longer wanted here as a member.
I am not rage quitting, there was no anger involved in me making this decision, simply that I no longer feel welcome, that has not ever happened in a called thread before, I have never ever felt unwelcome until ria made that post.
Call it a wake up call or whatever but I guess ria is half right, I don't post enough, why am I even here? I guess caring enough about the clan and reading up isn't really enough to constitute being a member here so I am taking my leave, I am at peace with the fact that I am no longer wanted here as a member.
Come on man really? Wait to hear everyone' thoughts and opinions before going out. You don't post...you are asked if you care...you take that as being unwanted and quit....really?
If you care, say it...which you did. If you feel like you're part of the clan...say why. If you like the clan, state why you'd like to say active. Then if you want to remain active in status, then be a little more active.
No one asked you to quit. So one person questions whether he wants you around or not....give him a reason to see otherwise.
Don't be a Myron! Stand up and fight for it if you love it!!
By the way...being Sometimes...isn't the same as being asked to leave.
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"Talkin outta turn....That's a paddlin'. Starin' at my sandals....That's a paddlin'. Paddlin' the school canoe....You better believe that's a paddlin'!" --Jasper
Just to offer one opinion before I walk away. Rian's statements toward TFO were largely uncalled for. And there is no way that you guys are actually 'cleaning house'. If you took every person that only posted enough to qualify as a 'sometimes' member, the Clan would actually have like 5 people in it at this point. Which is not enough to even be considered a Clan by the sites rules.
And being a 'sometimes' member is a nonsense concept. You either are a member, or, you are not. HKKID is a 'sometimes' member even though he hasn't posted on Salvation in 3 years. If people were really serious about getting rid of inactive posters, there would not be a Clan anymore.
In reality, Rian saw a couple of guys that he felt deserved to be kicked out(and was probably right about, to be fair), and while in the grips of righteous fury, lost control a little bit. It happens, but it should be rectified. If you are going to clean out some inactives, then do just that. But getting rid of one guy, who happens to be a fervent kpaca buddy/gutter supporter(this may or may not be a coincidence, I honestly don't know) and calling it 'getting rid of inactives' is highly disingenuous. Here is the list of members:
Charlie D
Clock King
Cyan
Daggertooth
Diggy
jonnyjonski
kpaca
rianalnn
RUBRDUX
sXe Silent Prophet
Talore
The Fallen One
votan
Yukora
Of that list, only Daggs, DUX, Rian, Talore, and jonski post enough to be really be considered 'in good standing'. Well, and kpaca, but he put himself on 'indefinite leave' anyway.
Are you really going to kick out everyone else? No? Why not? What is the difference between one person's inactivity and another's? Ultimately, just cut TFO some slack. He's a cool guy. Could he use to post more? Sure. But so could 60+% of the clan roster. If people took issue with his posting frequency, that should have been brought up as such. I don't recall anyone saying anything about it until now, when suddenly it's a major issue. How is that fair to TFO?
Good point Nick...I agree with that. With that said, I don't see a reason for teefo to quit or get booted.
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"Talkin outta turn....That's a paddlin'. Starin' at my sandals....That's a paddlin'. Paddlin' the school canoe....You better believe that's a paddlin'!" --Jasper
All this **** just leaves a bad taste in my mouth. Kicking people out like what Cyan pointed out, plus the stuff that has come to light in the gutter which Ria can read for himself. I'm kind of in a liminal state right now. I'm going to wait it out, but right now the clan just doesn't feel like home.
All this **** just leaves a bad taste in my mouth. Kicking people out like what Cyan pointed out, plus the stuff that has come to light in the gutter which Ria can read for himself. I'm kind of in a liminal state right now. I'm going to wait it out, but right now the clan just doesn't feel like home.
Best idea I've heard all day. As far as I'm concerned, Nick's voice no longer applies. I agree with what he said, but that should be it from him. My disappointment toward him is more than I can say.
I know others have read this....let's hear it guys. I, for one, think this is more than just a "yes/no" vote.
EDS: As far as the Gutter knowing about it....they know more about what's going on in this site more than any other portion...including the mods.
"Talkin outta turn....That's a paddlin'. Starin' at my sandals....That's a paddlin'. Paddlin' the school canoe....You better believe that's a paddlin'!" --Jasper
All this **** just leaves a bad taste in my mouth. Kicking people out like what Cyan pointed out, plus the stuff that has come to light in the gutter which Ria can read for himself. I'm kind of in a liminal state right now. I'm going to wait it out, but right now the clan just doesn't feel like home.
I'm not going to go trawl the Gutter looking for relevance in a sea of high school. Bring it here or w/e.
& I interact with HKKID frequently on Facebook, & he was active in the cave, as did 'seds. Hence 'sometimes'.
I'm not going to go trawl the Gutter looking for relevance in a sea of high school. Bring it here or w/e.
Stuff like this is what makes me uncomfortable, along with burning down the batcave without telling us beforehand, and just in general going for a fighting tone with me instead of interacting with me like a clanmate:
If you have a problem with so many people in the Called, why don't you just leave?
Quote from rianalnn »
So many people? Cyan & kpaca?
What is wrong with you?
Quote from Talore »
+Clock King, +teefo. You've gone after JJ in the past, too. I'll ask that second question back at you.
Quote from ria »
Drama mining, huh?
Clock King had issues with *me*, you got that backwards.
Teefo is inactive, all I am suggesting is putting him off the active member list. He's a non-element.
JJ almost ripped me off for $200, but we resolved that.
So my problem is people getting incensed when they don't know the full story, & worse, don't care to look into it before they start *****ing.
Even before this crap when we were talking about my application you were real quick to start ****-talking me. What did you even do while you were gone? The only difference I see is that you came back with a hitlist of people you didn't want in [Called] anymore.
We need to all admit our wrongs if we're going to move forward. Without empathy, we're going to get nowhere.
I'll start:
kpaca / teefo - Sorry for being anti-gutter after I first ragequit that subforum. I know I made snarky comments in CI after that and I apologize. It wasn't until last summer that I saw you all as people and not trolls.
Rianalnn - Sorry for grudging earlier. However our issues clearly went both ways.
Again... the gutter has nothing to do with crap! I put some serious things out there that i've had no comments on! If we're going to be honest here we have to stop having conversations outside of this thread, so that crap needs to stop right now! If things need to be said we have to say them here. **** in the gutter and selective pms need to stop. Saying things to each other need to out right here. I don't give three craps what everyone thinks about that! If this is going to move forward then that's the way it needs to be.
If everyone is not on board with this then it should all be forgotten.
Everyone cool with this?
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
"Talkin outta turn....That's a paddlin'. Starin' at my sandals....That's a paddlin'. Paddlin' the school canoe....You better believe that's a paddlin'!" --Jasper
As usual, in the calm, my feelings about all this are very close to JJ’s.
I feel an apology is in order from myself to everyone, for my own actions which fanned the flames on this whole issue.
I never read the posts, where ever they are or were. I simply read that IM/PM conversations had been used by a Clanmate against another Clanmate and with admitted ignorance on the specifics aside, frankly, that’s all I needed to hear. I wouldn’t care which one of you did it to whom for whatever reason you felt was justified; I’d still jump down your damn throat. As JJ said that is a breach of trust and when broken, will take time to mend.
In the heat of the flames, I spoke out of anger. But this is one of the things tests that have and will weed out the weak & always keep this Clan its best! We scrap and draw blood from time to time, but the true Called remain when the dust settles. Some people like each other more than others, that’s true in any group/tribe/clan. When it gets thick, the weak leave; Some anger-quit, some tuck their tail then run and, yes, some do get voted out. But those who truly care about the Clan as a whole, in the end, will apologize and have one another’s back again.
The Called is anything but a dictatorship or a democracy; it is a family, a brotherhood. Sure there are some who have been around longer, and to them that does hold some since of pride, which it should. But when each thread is locked and a new one begins, the ones that are listed as members are there because they care enough about each other, about this Clan, to see it through.
This clan has the scars from all the year’s battles to prove it can and will endure. That’s why our Clan is named the Called.“I don’t understand, your Clan name is Called? ..Called to what? ..Called for what?” No you don’t understand!!
We are undefined; we are not a group for a mana symbol only (..okay, maybe ), or a group for gay people only, or New York only, etc..
We have been Called, if you don’t get it, then you aren’t one of us..
The drama we go through and fight for is because we care. That says enough by itself to me.
No one go anywhere unless you just want to, aren’t man enough to apologize or can’t except. If you “can’t except” then read this again until you can..
C_K - That post was hilarious! Now make a Called tag in your sig before this Dux squeex.
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I really don't think he's having a go at you, it's just housekeeping, you don't post here that much and he just wants to move you from "official" to "sometimes". I think it was just phrased badly, don't take it as him wanting you to leave forever!
@DUX: Helvault was stock standard here, I just got a D20, a giant Griselbrand and two Angel/Demon tokens. We had no shenanigans with special promos!
I can't believe you guys are actually trying to throw people out of the clan. As if there was a hope in hell that the majority of member would want any one member out of here. For shame. It's pretty stupid being a part of the clan when people are going to drag a vendetta in here, because it's going to do a lot more damage then they hoped.
teef, don't call it quits just because one member is kicking up drama. You're still welcome here.
Eds: And yes, we are acting like children. Both of us. This **** should stop.
Edit edit: Also I realize that all the links to the ria/kpaca aim chat of infamy have been deleted retroactively. I'm not going to point fingers as to this, but I feel as though anyone who has not read said chat and is yet conjecturing based on said chat, should at least read the chat. I'm not sure what to tell you though.
Triple eds: I mean, I'm not even on good terms with Cyan either but I still vote no to his removal, as well as no to everyone elses removal except I guess ria since my vote has already been placed there by ria. Consider me in the no one should leave camp, which is not being counted. Actually:
/boot:
kpaca – rianalnn, DUX
Cyan – rianalnn, DUX
rianalnn – kpaca
/sometimes
TFO – rianalnn, DUX
Diggy – rianalnn, DUX, Talore
/everyone should stay: Teefo (no longer a member), Clock King (probably not technically a member), Talore (still a member), kpaca (probably not technically a member), CharlieD (since he didn't vote and clearly we are allowed to just characterize this votecount however best fits our argument).
Anyway. I will step down from the clan. It is the right thing for me to do. It is my fault, and no one else's, though I am not going to elaborate more on that in a public venue that any random person can read. I'll try to come back later when I have righted some wrongs.
& I hope you do resolve the issue this time.
Hey CK, we're cool right? 'cos people are trying to play like there is bad between us, but that's not here or there? C/D?
So I resigned:
and posted in CI cause I saw you like this:
I came to realize that holding grudges was:
And it made mtgs pretty terrible:
So I sent PMs to people I had disputes with:
And they agreed that continued fighting was a waste of time:
Sometimes modding can swallow someone up (I know!):
And lead to endless fights over minute issues:
It can be lonely at the top and the job isn't for everyone:
And all of this infighting only hurts the best clan on MTGS:
And creates bad feelings:
We're the Called. We may mix it up from time to time....
but we stick together!
Modding didn't suit me. And I think modding doesn't suit you. But being a Called member does. In fact, it suits everyone in this clan:
So instead of us all ****ting on each other....
I say we lay these issues to rest:
Nobody gets kicked out of The Called, the Gutter gets moved back, and we all laugh about this tomorrow:
And we go back to focusing on the things that make this site great.
The humor:
The quality posts:
And the other random **** that keeps bringing us back here despite it all:
Right, like I said, I'm not exactly on good terms with you. Part of that is that I don't particularly like you (which you just noted). However, I have never desired for you to not be part of the called to the point that I would actively call for such a thing. Furthermore, that's not the explicit reason I booted you from the gutter, and I'm not sure why you are saying you are quoting me, because I didn't intimate why I kicked you out of the gutter until after I did, if at all. And considering you can't see the gutter once you're kicked out, yeah. Furthermore if the gutter is my clan and not the called I guess the same is true for Tlo, Teef, and JJ? Get real dude. I can't believe this is becomeing "kpaca sold out the called to the gutter". Then again, I should probably just put as much stock into that opinion as I do to most of your opinions, which is to say, zero.
But you know what Cyan? Despite all of that above paragraph, I still don't want you to lead the clan. Call it trying to act high and mighty if you want, but ask yourself this, please: If I really truly didn't want you in the clan, do you think I'd hesitate to say that? I'm pretty sure we both know the answer.
tl;dr: We should all be mature enough to not have to hold hands while we share a "social space". This is incredibly juvenile.
So to attend to this little tussle we have going on here....
kpaca - While I have no beef with you and we get along rather well, I do believe that airing your aim conversations and pms with Rian over the issues that occurred with kijin in a manner that allows for people to completely misconstrue to exchange was very bad form. I do believe that it served kijin rather well as ammunition for the "remove Rianalnn from Admin" campaign and added unnecessary fuel to the growing fire. I feel that you took a conversation that Rian felt he was having with a clan mate, more open ended and raw, and allowed it to be used against him to help kijin's cause. I must say, that was wrong. I think you should've filtered yourself and cooled off before you plopped that down. I think that was an action unbecoming of a clan mate. You know as well as I that kijin's de-modding was coming no matter what happened. While I feel he did a good job in the forum he was modding, the pansy-assed posters can't take any criticism that isn't supportive on this site and the Admins are always going to do whatever's possible to avoid conflict with the user base. All that aside...I can see why you are being asked to resign from the clan by Rian....there is a complete lack of trust in his end now.
So here's my assessment, and I base this on my previous experience....pull yourself out for a little bit. I'm not sure if a complete boot is necessary....but pull yourself out of the clan for a while. I don't You think a total disconnect is necessary, I completely understand. It was the best thing for me. You're being asked to resign because there isn't trust there between members. There is a fear that any conversation you have outside of MTGS could be aired against them on this site, or through other mediums. Trust is all we really rely on when we have discussions off this site...and I believe that has been broken. But I do think it can be fixed....I just don't know how right now. The Gutter and all that crap has nothing to do with any of this...I just think it's the trust thing.
Teefo - His inactivity is a little rough for some to handle. I completely understand not having anything to say. I don't think there's anything wrong with that. But...if you don't contribute to the discussion, it's hard to see you as an active member. Being a sometimes member isn't being booted out...it's just a status update for the member log. Not a big deal.
Cyan - I mean, there's not much to say there. I know why you're being asked to leave and I think you do as well. I hope you live up to your word. 'Nuff said.
Diggy - inactive member...see ya.
Talore - I think you're blowing this way out of proportion. There are times when actions need to be taken when you involve a **** load people with different dynamics. While you think you know the crux of it all....I don't think you do. I value your opinion, so I hope that you can put aside the personal feelings and try to see this all objectively.
Rianalnn - You and I have had or issues...I realize that we have both come a long way from those times. I consider you my friend, and I understand you intentions as a clan member who holds the status of this clan to your heart...but your tact leaves something to be desired. You and I have talked many times...so I hope that my words don't come as a shock to you. This clan is now, and always shall be a democracy. I think you should be keeping the vote for "no changes" in you posts. While there are issues between the members of this clan....CALLED Drama shall always persist....those being accused and asked to change their position in this clan are still a part of this clan and their word/position deserves to be heard. You and I also have the ability to speak our minds in this thread. We are certainly the most outspoken. But I think everyone's voice should be accounted for.
CK - You're alright in my book. You can be overbearing and annoying with your "anti-MTGSMods, they suck and they are all dumbassjerkoffs". Everyone in here knows that's true to an extent...I think we can just drop that whole thing in here. But I don't think you need to be booted....I think your opinion has merit. I like reading your input and think it's ok to hate the man.
As for Rianalnn's ability to admin the site. He is perfect for the job. He truly cares about the state of the site. I think that he cares a bit much, to the extent that he and the other admins cater too much to the whiners and their petty grievances toward the Gutter and the people who frequent it. People are gonna get offended. You can't make everyone happy. Tossing people out of the "Privileged" areas of the site is stupid and petty. I think it causes unwarranted tensions elsewhere when they can't blow off steam when they need to is a recipe for disaster! That rule should be changed...it no longer applies since the mods in those areas have the ability to calm people down. I think it needs to be viewed this way....Jimmy has a bunch of friends...some of which you don't agree with. Jimmy gets in trouble with the coach of his Parks and Rec baseball team. You, as his parent, tell him that he isn't allowed to interact with his friends for 40 days. That just seems stupid to me.
So there you have it. Please feel free to talk openly about what I posted. I want to hear it, so give it to me.
I'd implore you to read it but someone has retroactively deleted the posts. Wonder who that was?
Edit: Also I'm not going into a temporary timeout corner, sorry. Maybe that worked for you but that's some childish jive. If/When the time comes, I'll leave on some grown man ****.
Eds: And you are clearly joking yourself if you think this clan is still a democracy. This clan is a riocracy and after hearing opinions of a few other clan members, I no longer feel as though this is something that needs to go unsaid. At this point I do not care if I'm ousted for saying it either. You can take it as my last will and testament if you want. I loved the called, I was called before I ever interacted with the gutter, and I made more personal connections with people in the called than I ever did with the gutter. The gutter is a video game for me, the called was my real clubhouse. To me we were like the little rascals, and sometimes we'd get mad or have distaste with each other, but we were still the called. What has happened recently is disgusting. We are completely fractured, disjointed, and dying. When Daggs brought it up I ignored it, in my mind saying it wasn't true. Evidently his was correct. The cave is gone, deleted unilaterally by Ria. Near half of the members are being called for some sort of forced removal. It is quite clear that the tone is that certain members hold more sway and have a stronger voice than anyone else. That's cool. Ria has been here longer than most and has been our most influential member, this is undeniable. If anyone should be Mubarak it should be him. This is a crap fest of epic proportions.
I think you misunderstood my intent there. I read the conversation. It was sick and stupid on both accounts. I think both of you handled the whole thing childishly. I'll tell you now....if the clan has become or becomes a dictatorship....I'll resign. I don't think that's happened yet, and I hope it doesn't. That said, you were both in the wrong. Rian let his feelings and emotions take over his posting that night...but you did too. I also don't think this is a gutter issue either, but kijin is someone you talk to outside of this site. You both get along with each other very well. I'm sure you consider him a friend of yours in some sense, am I wrong there? I also don't think rage quitting is the answer here. Are we divided....yeah I'm sure there is that much going on right now. I'm trying to be unbiased here.
if you don't want to resign, that's fine. You have every right to maintain your status in this clan. If it dissolves the clan as a result, so be it...that just means it wasn't as strong as we all believed. Personally....with the exception of Cyan...I think this whole thing is nothing more than hurt feelings and trust issues. I like to think that each and every person in this clan could say or do whatever they wanted to each other, knowing full well that their conversations aren't going to be broadcast openly for others to read and judge out of context of the relationship. As an Admin and a clanmate I think Rian over reacted, to an extent, in his conversations with you before you posted it on the thread. I think you were wrong for making that conversation public. But let's both be honest here, if you think that you aren't a troll in most instances when enter into a thread preparing for conflict, then you're kidding yourself. You know, as well as I, that even though you are speaking you mind about things that need to be aired, you, kpaca, are fully aware that you are trolling. Even if you do it with the sweetest of delivery. You take great delight in your ability to do so without coming off as one. That entire thread was riddled with trolling and finger pointing. The whole intent of the thread was to provide an open forum for users to do so.
I think you were both idiots in there. Does that make me hate either of you? No! But this clan bases itself around the ability to trust each other within our group.
I don't know what else to write here. I'm dealing with a very similar issue in my home life with my 17 year old son. When I figure that **** out, I'll have more for ya.
kpaca should step out until trust issues can be resolved or re-established...but that's only if anyone cares to make amends or attempt something.
Cyan should leave
CK can stay but stop beating a dead horse
teefo should be sometimes, but he already rage quit
diggy is out because he's gone mia
EDS: Disjointed clan mates aren't a means to an end. Resolution is always a possibility. And yes....I agree with your assessment of clan versus gutter...you're right, you were called before you were gutter. I see it the same way you do. But no matter which way you look at it, you were wrong for posting the conversation. Even though you asked and or told him you were going to do it. That shouldn't have even popped into your head to do it. He agreed because he didn't think he said anything wrong. I'm sure he would think differently after cooling off first. His comments were not good...but neither were yours. He's an admin and your not...nobody is going to care what you say, but they are going to think differently about him because of his position on the site. Cooler heads did not prevail on this one. Plus....these posts are opinions...let's not forget that. We don't all have to agree without a fight.
Warning for innapropriate use of the word "retarded" - LN
But that's just me....
I'm being honest.
Consider me on indefinite leave. I do want to make amends, and do not want to leave this clan, however, I am not willing to be a part of actions I think may result in the destruction of the thing on MTGS (don't believe me if you want to, whatever) that I actually held most dear.
If any sort of reconciliation is happening, if you'd shoot me a pm jonski, I'd very much appreciate it.
I am not rage quitting, there was no anger involved in me making this decision, simply that I no longer feel welcome, that has not ever happened in a called thread before, I have never ever felt unwelcome until ria made that post.
Call it a wake up call or whatever but I guess ria is half right, I don't post enough, why am I even here? I guess caring enough about the clan and reading up isn't really enough to constitute being a member here so I am taking my leave, I am at peace with the fact that I am no longer wanted here as a member.
Come on man really? Wait to hear everyone' thoughts and opinions before going out. You don't post...you are asked if you care...you take that as being unwanted and quit....really?
If you care, say it...which you did. If you feel like you're part of the clan...say why. If you like the clan, state why you'd like to say active. Then if you want to remain active in status, then be a little more active.
No one asked you to quit. So one person questions whether he wants you around or not....give him a reason to see otherwise.
Don't be a Myron! Stand up and fight for it if you love it!!
By the way...being Sometimes...isn't the same as being asked to leave.
Just to offer one opinion before I walk away. Rian's statements toward TFO were largely uncalled for. And there is no way that you guys are actually 'cleaning house'. If you took every person that only posted enough to qualify as a 'sometimes' member, the Clan would actually have like 5 people in it at this point. Which is not enough to even be considered a Clan by the sites rules.
And being a 'sometimes' member is a nonsense concept. You either are a member, or, you are not. HKKID is a 'sometimes' member even though he hasn't posted on Salvation in 3 years. If people were really serious about getting rid of inactive posters, there would not be a Clan anymore.
In reality, Rian saw a couple of guys that he felt deserved to be kicked out(and was probably right about, to be fair), and while in the grips of righteous fury, lost control a little bit. It happens, but it should be rectified. If you are going to clean out some inactives, then do just that. But getting rid of one guy, who happens to be a fervent kpaca buddy/gutter supporter(this may or may not be a coincidence, I honestly don't know) and calling it 'getting rid of inactives' is highly disingenuous. Here is the list of members:
Charlie D
Clock King
Cyan
Daggertooth
Diggy
jonnyjonski
kpaca
rianalnn
RUBRDUX
sXe Silent Prophet
Talore
The Fallen One
votan
Yukora
Of that list, only Daggs, DUX, Rian, Talore, and jonski post enough to be really be considered 'in good standing'. Well, and kpaca, but he put himself on 'indefinite leave' anyway.
Are you really going to kick out everyone else? No? Why not? What is the difference between one person's inactivity and another's? Ultimately, just cut TFO some slack. He's a cool guy. Could he use to post more? Sure. But so could 60+% of the clan roster. If people took issue with his posting frequency, that should have been brought up as such. I don't recall anyone saying anything about it until now, when suddenly it's a major issue. How is that fair to TFO?
Anyway, that's all.
Best idea I've heard all day. As far as I'm concerned, Nick's voice no longer applies. I agree with what he said, but that should be it from him. My disappointment toward him is more than I can say.
I know others have read this....let's hear it guys. I, for one, think this is more than just a "yes/no" vote.
EDS: As far as the Gutter knowing about it....they know more about what's going on in this site more than any other portion...including the mods.
I'm not going to go trawl the Gutter looking for relevance in a sea of high school. Bring it here or w/e.
& I interact with HKKID frequently on Facebook, & he was active in the cave, as did 'seds. Hence 'sometimes'.
Stuff like this is what makes me uncomfortable, along with burning down the batcave without telling us beforehand, and just in general going for a fighting tone with me instead of interacting with me like a clanmate:
http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showpost.php?p=8328090&postcount=67939
http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showpost.php?p=8330006&postcount=67981
http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showpost.php?p=8330209&postcount=67994
http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showpost.php?p=8333457&postcount=68040
http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showpost.php?p=8330227&postcount=67997
http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showpost.php?p=8330700&postcount=68012
http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showpost.php?p=8330762&postcount=68014
Even before this crap when we were talking about my application you were real quick to start ****-talking me. What did you even do while you were gone? The only difference I see is that you came back with a hitlist of people you didn't want in [Called] anymore.
I'll start:
kpaca / teefo - Sorry for being anti-gutter after I first ragequit that subforum. I know I made snarky comments in CI after that and I apologize. It wasn't until last summer that I saw you all as people and not trolls.
Rianalnn - Sorry for grudging earlier. However our issues clearly went both ways.
If everyone is not on board with this then it should all be forgotten.
Everyone cool with this?
I feel an apology is in order from myself to everyone, for my own actions which fanned the flames on this whole issue.
I never read the posts, where ever they are or were. I simply read that IM/PM conversations had been used by a Clanmate against another Clanmate and with admitted ignorance on the specifics aside, frankly, that’s all I needed to hear. I wouldn’t care which one of you did it to whom for whatever reason you felt was justified; I’d still jump down your damn throat. As JJ said that is a breach of trust and when broken, will take time to mend.
In the heat of the flames, I spoke out of anger. But this is one of the
thingstests that have and will weed out the weak & always keep this Clan its best! We scrap and draw blood from time to time, but the true Called remain when the dust settles. Some people like each other more than others, that’s true in any group/tribe/clan. When it gets thick, the weak leave; Some anger-quit, some tuck their tail then run and, yes, some do get voted out. But those who truly care about the Clan as a whole, in the end, will apologize and have one another’s back again.The Called is anything but a dictatorship or a democracy; it is a family, a brotherhood. Sure there are some who have been around longer, and to them that does hold some since of pride, which it should. But when each thread is locked and a new one begins, the ones that are listed as members are there because they care enough about each other, about this Clan, to see it through.
This clan has the scars from all the year’s battles to prove it can and will endure. That’s why our Clan is named the Called. “I don’t understand, your Clan name is Called? ..Called to what? ..Called for what?”
No you don’t understand!!
We are undefined; we are not a group for a mana symbol only (..okay, maybe ), or a group for gay people only, or New York only, etc..
We have been Called, if you don’t get it, then you aren’t one of us..
The drama we go through and fight for is because we care. That says enough by itself to me.
No one go anywhere unless you just want to, aren’t man enough to apologize or can’t except. If you “can’t except” then read this again until you can..
C_K - That post was hilarious! Now make a Called tag in your sig before this Dux squeex.
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Homebrew is creating Magic.
Are you a pilot or a creator??