Has anyone pointed out that the youth isn't getting more ignorant, but the adult population (~60% of the population is over the age 60) is getting more selfish and failing to maintain the education of the youth. Instead of a English teacher complaining that the youth doesn't know as much as they should and labeling them as having "decaying intelligence" he should realize that as a teacher he's part of the problem of a decaying education system.
Teenagers don't know the classics because the 'adults' don't care enough to teach them. 20 years ago, Shakespeare and Chaucer were the most important things to learn. Welcome to a generation where how to kill insurgence and how to get any job you can in a failing economy are the most important things. And guess what...thats all the work of people over 30.
I think the concept of a "well-rounded education" is just exposing its ugly flaws. I had to take summer school and correspondence courses just to have the science or math electives I needed to go to college for engineering. Why? Because I had to take so many sociology and literature credits to meet the standards for the state curriculum.
Yes, but when people learn only the things they need to work their job, such as engineering, all they can do is engineer. They become ants in a meaningless world. Without sociology and literature, life wouldn't serve any purpose other than surviving. Without art, math and science have no purpose.
Garbage for constructed, costs way too much mana and can't even deal with walkers.
To sum it up. Creature removal doesn't take care of Plainswalkers...how am I to respond to a statment like that? It's like somebody saying division symbols suck at simple addition.
As much as I'd like to condemn the decrease in reading, writing and math abilities the fact of the matter is that they have decreased because their necessity has decreased. Schools have lowered standards to the lowest common denominator and passing students is more important than teaching them. We have laws setting up standards for education, but not programs encouraging teachers to excel at teaching.
The bottom line is that even though there may be a use for advanced mathematics and literature our consumerist society has little use for them. The average worker in the US can get by with knowing how to operate a calculator, Microsoft office and Google. The upside is that technology has freed up that brain power for other uses, the downside being we haven't found anything terribly useful to do with it yet. We need to set ourselves to work producing, not simply consuming and providing services.
At teh end uv da dai, if u can unnerstand dis, whut duz it mater if it iz nut speld gud?
Especially since the website spell check caught all of that for me.
Well, we learned at school that black hair are in fact realy dark brown. 1st time I hear that I thought "lol?" but later that day, I saw one of my asian classmates standing with sun behind her and what? I could see that her hair were dark brown and not black, so maybe that guy was right.
Anyway, as a member of "teens" (im 18) I think you cant blame us that we dont reed Jonathan Swift. Cmon, what did YOU read when you were teens?
Harry Potter (I read it) and Twilight (I didnt) are simple,relaxing books. They dont force you to think about them and whats more imprtant they are actual.
In fact, thats the thing I realy hate at school: we have to learn stuff about old books, but noone realy cares about them. It boring when you have to read something you dont like. Sure, I will read them in a future.
Then, you cant blame whole generation of ppl because of someone wrote "pritty" insetead of "pretty". You havent ever made a spelling mistake?
There are dumb ppl and clever ppl. I can compare 5 years on basic scool (we had about 5+- realy stupid guys) and now on grammar school where are quite inteligent people.
So that realy depends on individuals. Maybe then dont know who was Jonathan Swift but can you make programs in C++ or Python (just example, maybe you can)
Ever seen the movie Idiocracy?
Here is where you will lead us thinking like that...
You are aware the computer programming languages is basically dumber English right?
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Garbage for constructed, costs way too much mana and can't even deal with walkers.
To sum it up. Creature removal doesn't take care of Plainswalkers...how am I to respond to a statment like that? It's like somebody saying division symbols suck at simple addition.
And can you program? Because obviously with that statement you can't.
Ok, lets get back on topic.
Look, once again, I only used the Classics as an example. I figured the majority of kids are closed minded to them. And I don't doubt all teens. I'd had the pleasure of knowing a few that were very bright and had a good upbringing, and to those I tip my hat to.
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If majority is closed minded to Classics or anything else, maybe its time to ask "why?"
Because today's youth has a shorter attention span, a degenerative imagination, and an affinity for putting pastime ahead of education.
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At teh end uv da dai, if u can unnerstand dis, whut duz it mater if it iz nut speld gud?
Especially since the website spell check caught all of that for me.
The only reason we can decipher that is because we can spell and read correctly. Eventually spellcheck wont even work because everythings been coded by illiterates and there isnt a standardized english anymore.
Sure I am. But that was just an example that they know/can do something you dont know/cant do.
I didnt mean that know nothing about literature is good thing, It is good to know something about Swift, Remarque, but cmon, they are 15 years old.
Well in the example he said they were in a 12 grade honors english class, so yeah it is surprising they didnt know.
If majority is closed minded to Classics or anything else, maybe its time to ask "why?"
If I had to guess I would say because they find it boring and they find it boring because..... theyre kids. Kids find most important things boring. If it want just on Mtv or on Facebook they arent interested. They spent their whole youth reading nothing but harry potter and twilight and watching cartoons specifically targeted towards those with ADD.
Most kids dont like history because they find it boring. Should we not teach history?
@Neoitems::thumbsup: on the Idiocracy food pyramid.
Because today's youth has a shorter attention span, a degenerative imagination, and an affinity for putting pastime ahead of education.
All results of a consumerism based society. Everything is the pursuit of what the next thing you can buy and consume is. Jobs do not tend to require the production of ideas, only to continuation of a flow chart and series of actions. You just learn a process and rinse repeat. Where in a society like that is there any systematic drive to better yourself or develop your intellect?
All results of a consumerism based society. Everything is the pursuit of what the next thing you can buy and consume is. Jobs do not tend to require the production of ideas, only to continuation of a flow chart and series of actions. You just learn a process and rinse repeat. Where in a society like that is there any systematic drive to better yourself or develop your intellect?
Well said. Its we, who are in charge, that are failing our children. Each generation has been failing the following one since WWII.
All results of a consumerism based society. Everything is the pursuit of what the next thing you can buy and consume is. Jobs do not tend to require the production of ideas, only to continuation of a flow chart and series of actions. You just learn a process and rinse repeat. Where in a society like that is there any systematic drive to better yourself or develop your intellect?
Well, to answer your question, some people buy the latest Iphone because theirs is a year out of date. Most people need the latest in HD technology so their football games are that much better.
But a few of of like myself, read, debate, write music, lyrics, poetry and so forth.
I totally agree that you can blame the degenerative attention span of today's your on consumerism.
But as Beomesh has said, teachers are partially to blame. But at the same time they are not.
My mom and what little interaction I had with her, helped me develop ahead of my class. While I didn't do homework and my grades showed it, I also had test results placing me above the others in my class, and beyond my teachers expectations.
So even for those teachers who wish to teach things they learned at their students age, some of them have to catch their students up first, which can make it pretty hard to get them up to speed.
Our educational system is definitely back pedaling, and it could be attributed to our consumerism.
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All results of a consumerism based society. Everything is the pursuit of what the next thing you can buy and consume is. Jobs do not tend to require the production of ideas, only to continuation of a flow chart and series of actions. You just learn a process and rinse repeat. Where in a society like that is there any systematic drive to better yourself or develop your intellect?
Quote from Charles de Montesquieu [/quote »
“It is not the young people that degenerate; they are not spoiled till those of mature age are already sunk into corruption.”
I love that quote.
Anyway for your point about "production of ideas," the issue is a combination of technical, social, AND cultural skills that connect to people. Granted that Stephanie Meyer and Joanne Rowling were both influenced by classical works, their own technical skills in the long term will be the main deciding points on which one is the more long lived author. In short they required a background to draw from and synthesize from to construct an entire new piece of literature, while their talents will decide whether their work is everlasting as an established classic or not.
My money is on Rowling, because her literature is culturally significant as the superior author and synthesizer of ideas. The arts are significant in specific fields. While I detest "well rounded education mantra," I equally detest the route of finite overspecialization that can only be exemplified through parody:
Frankly, that is true for many academics. Most of their body of work is so specialized that most people do not even find it relevant. I find the point to be one of scale, the college age is not a good age to be indoctrinating our youth into literature while they're trying to specialize. Now on the issue of economics, history, and government... I don't know, but I can say without a doubt that civil engineers in particular should be well versed in specific kinds of economics and histories. Actually in Europe, a kid trained to be a civil engineer would be immersed in history from the getgo to study how to build different forms.
So in the end it is one of scale and relevancy. Teaching a four year old about ant eaters is one thing, but to make someone that is in their 40's the preeminent expert in ant eaters while they would be better serving as a more varied kind of animal expert is better for them and society.
achilezslo: 12th grade? Well, I missed that... How old are they? 17?
History is one of the more interesting subjects at school, at least for me. Stopping teaching history because its boring isnt solution of course. What about make it more interesting? (please dont ask me how please)
Well, it's framing and selling it. History is nice to say why and how, but economics also accomplishes the same thing with math. It's one of the things with business ethics, for example, and how really effective it is in business is that it is bunk. If it is framed as business history explained under the context on what not to do or else suffer the fate of losing everything you own, going to jail, and playing ***** to some very dangerous people.
achilezslo: 12th grade? Well, I missed that... How old are they? 17?
History is one of the more interesting subjects at school, at least for me. Stopping teaching history because its boring isnt solution of course. What about make it more interesting? (please dont ask me how please)
So you want them to spice your classes up like Hollywood spices up novels when they turn them into movies?
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Honestly, I wouldn't say that youth and/or society as a whole are getting stupider, even though the advent of new technology, especially social networking and the acceptance of "text speak" is more prevalent.
I would say if anything, it's human to become more and more jaded over time, especially as you grow older and outgrow your old social and societal norms and watch as new norms make their way into popular young society. Don't get me wrong, when I see things about Twitter wars, Twilight, or even different kinds of video games on the news, I sometimes think "man, what a bunch of garbage". However, we were all kids once, and even if we were much more intelligent than our peers, we still have to look at things from a relative point of view, and think about all the dumb things that we cared about when we were younger.
Also, this whole discussion about how someone is less "intelligent" because they don't read classic novels or know who directed Citizen Kane (one of my favorite movies of all time as well), is completely ridiculous. Quantifying such an abstract quality as intelligence by the amount of archaic novels that someone reads is pretty ridiculous, although I understand that the OP used that distinction solely because it was a contained situation that he had observed at work, which was relevant to the discussion.
But seriously now, I wasn't "book smart" for a long time, although I'm finally making straight A's in my second year of college because I finally started taking classes that I was interested in. I've always been a "bright" kid, but my social skills and networking abilities far outweighed my "book smarts". Each person had their own individual strengths and weaknesses as far as their Intelligence goes. For example: one of my best female friends is a complete ditz but is close to getting a degree in Physics. I also know many friends who can barely even read a book (kind of exaggerating, but, you know) but are what I would consider very socially adept, which is a great life skill. I feel as though Magic players as a general community tend to weigh "book smarts" quite heavily, as the vast majority of Magic players tend to lack enhanced social skills (which is very important at highly competitive levels of the game actually).
Tl;dr: Everyone is smart in their own way. We also need to remember that as we get older, we get increasingly disconnected with the culture of youths, which means we heavily scrutinize them, even if we don't realize it right away. Also, apologies for any grammaticel missteaks i made during this typing.
achilezslo: 12th grade? Well, I missed that... How old are they? 17?
History is one of the more interesting subjects at school, at least for me. Stopping teaching history because its boring isnt solution of course. What about make it more interesting? (please dont ask me how please)
If taught well I agree History is one of the most interesting subjects that you can teach, unfortuantly it is alos phenominally to teach badly.
Over here in the UK we got taught a very limited range of history whilst I was in school 10+ years ago now. And we kept going over the same areas again and again, year after year, Tudors, Victorians and Nazi Germany mainly, to the detirment of the general historical picture. It shames me to say it but a well educated foreigner will probably have a better idea of British History than most of the people who leave the English education system.
As Krieg said I am sure that a lot of people don't connect the two world wars with the treatment of Germany at the Versaille peace confrence. But then going back further with WW1 the fact that Clemenceau had been arround at the end of the 1870 Franco-Prussian war and wanted to punish Germany for that gets overlooked aswell.
As to getting the students more interested again speaking from a UK perspective with the blame culture that appears to be growing schools are getting less inclined to do less field work as they get blamed if something goes wrong. Back when I was in school we were taken on a field trip to the Somme battlfields in Belguim to bring home what we were taught in the class room, doing something similar for Omaha beach for the D-Day landings.
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I Became insane with long Intervals of horrible Sanity
All Religion, my friend is simply evolved out of fraud, fear, greed, imagination and poetry.
- Edgar Allan Poe
As to the point of making it more interesting....at what cost?
Take for instance the great Elizabethan novel Pride and Prejudice.
Now they are reprinting but adding new fiction, hence, Pride, Prejudice and Zombies.
If that isn't the greatest debauch I have ever experienced, I don't know what it. It is a blatant slap in the face to the precursors of old and fine tuning it to a lazy, ignorant generation to appease the Twilight reading twits.
Perhaps we should re-make all black and white films in color to make them watchable to high school.
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I'm an educator as well and I've had similar feelings from time to time. There are many adults who are just as uneducated as children, if not more so.
I try to keep everything in perspective. Some people are wholly ignorant. Most people simply have a base of knowledge to rely upon, and that base differs from person to person.
I have a friend named "Bob" who has a tendency to call me "smart" whereas he considers himself "stupid". Of course, what he is really talk about is knowledge, not intelligence.
Point is, while I do know a lot more about most academic pursuits, if I ever have a problem with my car, do you know who I turn to? I turn to "Bob", because "Bob" knows everything there is to know about cars. He doesn't lack knowledge, he simply has a specific knowledge set.
Still, I think you're right that most people have atrocious spelling and grammar. While I certainly disapprove of such things, I try to remember how poor my spelling and grammar was at that age. Nothing to write home about. (It still isn't.)
Honestly, I wouldn't say that youth and/or society as a whole are getting stupider, even though the advent of new technology, especially social networking and the acceptance of "text speak" is more prevalent.
I would say if anything, it's human to become more and more jaded over time, especially as you grow older and outgrow your old social and societal norms and watch as new norms make their way into popular young society. Don't get me wrong, when I see things about Twitter wars, Twilight, or even different kinds of video games on the news, I sometimes think "man, what a bunch of garbage". However, we were all kids once, and even if we were much more intelligent than our peers, we still have to look at things from a relative point of view, and think about all the dumb things that we cared about when we were younger.
Also, this whole discussion about how someone is less "intelligent" because they don't read classic novels or know who directed Citizen Kane (one of my favorite movies of all time as well), is completely ridiculous. Quantifying such an abstract quality as intelligence by the amount of archaic novels that someone reads is pretty ridiculous, although I understand that the OP used that distinction solely because it was a contained situation that he had observed at work, which was relevant to the discussion.
The OP made a mistake in using the word 'intelligent'. He should have used the word ignorant, which is what was conveyed in the rest of his post. No one is directly quantifying classic books with intelligence but it does correlate to thier ignorance. Besides like you said it was just an example and we should probably move on.
But seriously now, I wasn't "book smart" for a long time, although I'm finally making straight A's in my second year of college because I finally started taking classes that I was interested in. I've always been a "bright" kid, but my social skills and networking abilities far outweighed my "book smarts". Each person had their own individual strengths and weaknesses as far as their Intelligence goes. For example: one of my best female friends is a complete ditz but is close to getting a degree in Physics. I also know many friends who can barely even read a book (kind of exaggerating, but, you know) but are what I would consider very socially adept, which is a great life skill. I feel as though Magic players as a general community tend to weigh "book smarts" quite heavily, as the vast majority of Magic players tend to lack enhanced social skills (which is very important at highly competitive levels of the game actually).
Most of these examples show the person having some form of ignorance. The ditz in the example could probably be considered unintelligent even with a degree. Maybe she just has a good memory, which isnt always contigent on being intelligent.
I can, however, relate to you on having trouble finding classes that interest you. Alot of kids are cheated or are overlooked if their interest cannot be maintained by subpar teaching (or inherently boring curriculum).
Tl;dr: Everyone is smart in their own way.
I wish it were true but its just not. Some people are just flat out dumb and have no redeaming qualities
As to the point of making it more interesting....at what cost?
Well you can make subjects more interesting without losing subject content. Some teachers just dont know how to teach. Instead of vomiting the information at them and hoping it sticks, they need to actually teach the kids. Some teachers are just innept socially and have no idea how to connect to their students. A little exuberance for the subject matter and a little creative thinking on how to present the subject to them goes a long way. Weve all had that one teacher who was just so abhorrantly boring. Always speaking in a boring monotone voice, not really interacting with the kids. Not really finding ways to challenge their minds other than pop quizes and mindless reports.
Perhaps we should re-make all black and white films in color to make them watchable to high school.
Ted Turner is probably doing this right now. I think hes done it to a few already. I remember him doing it to the classic warner bros. and mgm cartoons.
The OP made a mistake in using the word 'intelligent'. He should have used the word ignorant, which is what was conveyed in the rest of his post. No one is directly quantifying classic books with intelligence but it does correlate to thier ignorance. Besides like you said it was just an example and we should probably move on.
Yes, now that I think back, that would be a more appropriate term. When I wrote the OP earlier today, I kinda rambled.
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And yet, the average intelligence of a human has been following a nice upward curve for the past few thousand years.
Defining intelligence as problem-solving skills, of course. Answering a question about literature is different from answering a mathematical problem, but they are both problems and have solutions.
And yet, the average intelligence of a human has been following a nice upward curve for the past few thousand years.
Defining intelligence as problem-solving skills, of course. Answering a question about literature is different from answering a mathematical problem, but they are both problems and have solutions.
Source? How did they measure the problem solvinng skills of Imohtep and Alexander the Great?
Source? How did they measure the problem solvinng skills of Imohtep and Alexander the Great?
Hell if I remember. Guess you're just going to have to either take my word for it, or google it. But honestly- just think about it. In the past hundred years we have invented more widespread tools and technologies than the inventions of entire existence of humanity since before we were human. But you do have to give some credit to the outliers like Newton, Euler, Da Vinci, etc. who were simply geniuses.
EDIT: Just to clarify, I'm not saying that we now have more capacity for knowledge than our predecessors, but the improvements in education and technology have given the average person a much more powerful experience.
"If I have seen further it is only by standing on the shoulders of giants."
Hell if I remember. Guess you're just going to have to either take my word for it, or google it. But honestly- just think about it. In the past hundred years we have invented more widespread tools and technologies than the inventions of entire existence of humanity since before we were human. But you do have to give some credit to the outliers like Newton, Euler, Da Vinci, etc. who were simply geniuses.
Maybe because each succesive generation had access to more knowledge. The twentieth century explosion was bound to happen after our accumulated knowledge reached a critical mass. But Im not sure we can say or know if our actual intellect has been going up. Sure some people, through thier environment and other stimuli, can develope increased problem solving skills. Dont know if they have been passing it on to their kids though.
EDIT:Saw your edit and completely agree. Again though, intelligence =/=knowledge
I do question knowledge and possible intelligence of recent generations.
Me: So how was your weekend? Her: Oh it was like totally great, one girl even asked if I was intellectual. Me: ... Her: I told her "I Love That Band", though what is Intellectual anyway. Me: Your intellect. Her: ...... *She's waiting for an answer she can understand. Me:*Okay she doesn't understand Intellect, lets try being blunt as all possible* Your Smarts. Her: Oh! Well I thought it was a band.
I wish I was kidding guys and gals. I have met people with very limited vocabulary as old as I am (Age 18 ATM).
Well, I'm 17 now and in High School actually, and yes, I've actually seen some people that are pretty ignorant really (One classmate at the start of the year actually thought the brain functioned because there were little goblins inside it, and she was being serious...)
We've had to read the classics, but teachers actually try to dumb them for us, for example we had to read "La Araucana" (really important book here, probably worldwide), and instead we read a chapter and then make a report about it, with "El Quijote" they gave us some pages and we had to fill the spaces in blank, because getting good marks was better than actually knowing the stuff.
My teachers aren't much more educated either than us, my biology teacher thought elefantiasis was a pituitary gland problem and my history teacher really thought the Hymalayas was a peninsula.
The funny thing is that if I didn't correct them my classmates would really have taken that for granted (and of course everyone gets pissed off whn I correct the teachers, o well :rolleyes:)
So, if the teachers don't even know, how do you expect us to?
I do question knowledge and possible intelligence of recent generations.
Me: So how was your weekend? Her: Oh it was like totally great, one girl even asked if I was intellectual. Me: ... Her: I told her "I Love That Band", though what is Intellectual anyway. Me: Your intellect. Her: ...... *She's waiting for an answer she can understand. Me:*Okay she doesn't understand Intellect, lets try being blunt as all possible* Your Smarts. Her: Oh! Well I thought it was a band.
I wish I was kidding guys and gals. I have met people with very limited vocabulary as old as I am (Age 18 ATM).
:laugh::laugh::laugh:
5 or so years ago I worked at an optometrists lab. I grew up with the doc's kids and the sons were very bright. The daughter however was special. One day I asked her to fax something. She didnt come back for a while. I went to check on her and she was standing there all confused. She said, "I dont know why its not sending. It did everything right, but the paper keeps coming back out." she sends the fax again (correctly), and then says, "see it just keeps rejecting it and not sending it to them." After much confusion, turns out she thought it physically sent your peice of paper (star trek teleporter style maybe) through the telephone lines. She was 20 at the time, and in college. This is just the tip of the iceberg with her. Scary thing is shes studying to be an opthamologist as we speak.
Well, I'm 17 now and in High School actually, and yes, I've actually seen some people that are pretty ignorant really (One classmate at the start of the year actually thought the brain functioned because there were little goblins inside it, and she was being serious...)
Wow she must also believe in pillowpants.
We've had to read the classics, but teachers actually try to dumb them for us, for example we had to read "La Araucana" (really important book here, probably worldwide), and instead we read a chapter and then make a report about it, with "El Quijote" they gave us some pages and we had to fill the spaces in blank, because getting good marks was better than actually knowing the stuff.
My teachers aren't much more educated either than us, my biology teacher thought elefantiasis was a pituitary gland problem and my history teacher really thought the Hymalayas was a peninsula.
The funny thing is that if I didn't correct them my classmates would really have taken that for granted (and of course everyone gets pissed off whn I correct the teachers, o well :rolleyes:)
So, if the teachers don't even know, how do you expect us to?
Dont even know what to say about all of that. Sounds really deplorable. Im sorry that you have to suffer in that kind of institution.
Teenagers don't know the classics because the 'adults' don't care enough to teach them. 20 years ago, Shakespeare and Chaucer were the most important things to learn. Welcome to a generation where how to kill insurgence and how to get any job you can in a failing economy are the most important things. And guess what...thats all the work of people over 30.
Yes, but when people learn only the things they need to work their job, such as engineering, all they can do is engineer. They become ants in a meaningless world. Without sociology and literature, life wouldn't serve any purpose other than surviving. Without art, math and science have no purpose.
Rogue players for the win!
The bottom line is that even though there may be a use for advanced mathematics and literature our consumerist society has little use for them. The average worker in the US can get by with knowing how to operate a calculator, Microsoft office and Google. The upside is that technology has freed up that brain power for other uses, the downside being we haven't found anything terribly useful to do with it yet. We need to set ourselves to work producing, not simply consuming and providing services.
At teh end uv da dai, if u can unnerstand dis, whut duz it mater if it iz nut speld gud?
Especially since the website spell check caught all of that for me.
Ever seen the movie Idiocracy?
Here is where you will lead us thinking like that...
You are aware the computer programming languages is basically dumber English right?
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And can you program? Because obviously with that statement you can't.
Rogue players for the win!
Ok, lets get back on topic.
Look, once again, I only used the Classics as an example. I figured the majority of kids are closed minded to them. And I don't doubt all teens. I'd had the pleasure of knowing a few that were very bright and had a good upbringing, and to those I tip my hat to.
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Because today's youth has a shorter attention span, a degenerative imagination, and an affinity for putting pastime ahead of education.
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"Fun fact about me: I home brew my buddies meta deck. He went from having a much lower ranking then me to a significantly higher rating since I started doing this."
The only reason we can decipher that is because we can spell and read correctly. Eventually spellcheck wont even work because everythings been coded by illiterates and there isnt a standardized english anymore.
Well in the example he said they were in a 12 grade honors english class, so yeah it is surprising they didnt know.
If I had to guess I would say because they find it boring and they find it boring because..... theyre kids. Kids find most important things boring. If it want just on Mtv or on Facebook they arent interested. They spent their whole youth reading nothing but harry potter and twilight and watching cartoons specifically targeted towards those with ADD.
Most kids dont like history because they find it boring. Should we not teach history?
@Neoitems::thumbsup: on the Idiocracy food pyramid.
All results of a consumerism based society. Everything is the pursuit of what the next thing you can buy and consume is. Jobs do not tend to require the production of ideas, only to continuation of a flow chart and series of actions. You just learn a process and rinse repeat. Where in a society like that is there any systematic drive to better yourself or develop your intellect?
Well said. Its we, who are in charge, that are failing our children. Each generation has been failing the following one since WWII.
Well, to answer your question, some people buy the latest Iphone because theirs is a year out of date. Most people need the latest in HD technology so their football games are that much better.
But a few of of like myself, read, debate, write music, lyrics, poetry and so forth.
I totally agree that you can blame the degenerative attention span of today's your on consumerism.
But as Beomesh has said, teachers are partially to blame. But at the same time they are not.
My mom and what little interaction I had with her, helped me develop ahead of my class. While I didn't do homework and my grades showed it, I also had test results placing me above the others in my class, and beyond my teachers expectations.
So even for those teachers who wish to teach things they learned at their students age, some of them have to catch their students up first, which can make it pretty hard to get them up to speed.
Our educational system is definitely back pedaling, and it could be attributed to our consumerism.
UB - Tezzerator 2.0 - UB
8-3-0
(Decklist and blog updated 4/11/2011)
"Fun fact about me: I home brew my buddies meta deck. He went from having a much lower ranking then me to a significantly higher rating since I started doing this."
I love that quote.
Anyway for your point about "production of ideas," the issue is a combination of technical, social, AND cultural skills that connect to people. Granted that Stephanie Meyer and Joanne Rowling were both influenced by classical works, their own technical skills in the long term will be the main deciding points on which one is the more long lived author. In short they required a background to draw from and synthesize from to construct an entire new piece of literature, while their talents will decide whether their work is everlasting as an established classic or not.
My money is on Rowling, because her literature is culturally significant as the superior author and synthesizer of ideas. The arts are significant in specific fields. While I detest "well rounded education mantra," I equally detest the route of finite overspecialization that can only be exemplified through parody:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qXD9HnrNrvk
Frankly, that is true for many academics. Most of their body of work is so specialized that most people do not even find it relevant. I find the point to be one of scale, the college age is not a good age to be indoctrinating our youth into literature while they're trying to specialize. Now on the issue of economics, history, and government... I don't know, but I can say without a doubt that civil engineers in particular should be well versed in specific kinds of economics and histories. Actually in Europe, a kid trained to be a civil engineer would be immersed in history from the getgo to study how to build different forms.
So in the end it is one of scale and relevancy. Teaching a four year old about ant eaters is one thing, but to make someone that is in their 40's the preeminent expert in ant eaters while they would be better serving as a more varied kind of animal expert is better for them and society.
Well, it's framing and selling it. History is nice to say why and how, but economics also accomplishes the same thing with math. It's one of the things with business ethics, for example, and how really effective it is in business is that it is bunk. If it is framed as business history explained under the context on what not to do or else suffer the fate of losing everything you own, going to jail, and playing ***** to some very dangerous people.
Ambition must be made to counteract ambition.
Individualities may form communities, but it is institutions alone that can create a nation.
Nothing succeeds like the appearance of success.
Here is my principle: Taxes shall be levied according to ability to pay. That is the only American principle.
So you want them to spice your classes up like Hollywood spices up novels when they turn them into movies?
UB - Tezzerator 2.0 - UB
8-3-0
(Decklist and blog updated 4/11/2011)
"Fun fact about me: I home brew my buddies meta deck. He went from having a much lower ranking then me to a significantly higher rating since I started doing this."
I would say if anything, it's human to become more and more jaded over time, especially as you grow older and outgrow your old social and societal norms and watch as new norms make their way into popular young society. Don't get me wrong, when I see things about Twitter wars, Twilight, or even different kinds of video games on the news, I sometimes think "man, what a bunch of garbage". However, we were all kids once, and even if we were much more intelligent than our peers, we still have to look at things from a relative point of view, and think about all the dumb things that we cared about when we were younger.
Also, this whole discussion about how someone is less "intelligent" because they don't read classic novels or know who directed Citizen Kane (one of my favorite movies of all time as well), is completely ridiculous. Quantifying such an abstract quality as intelligence by the amount of archaic novels that someone reads is pretty ridiculous, although I understand that the OP used that distinction solely because it was a contained situation that he had observed at work, which was relevant to the discussion.
But seriously now, I wasn't "book smart" for a long time, although I'm finally making straight A's in my second year of college because I finally started taking classes that I was interested in. I've always been a "bright" kid, but my social skills and networking abilities far outweighed my "book smarts". Each person had their own individual strengths and weaknesses as far as their Intelligence goes. For example: one of my best female friends is a complete ditz but is close to getting a degree in Physics. I also know many friends who can barely even read a book (kind of exaggerating, but, you know) but are what I would consider very socially adept, which is a great life skill. I feel as though Magic players as a general community tend to weigh "book smarts" quite heavily, as the vast majority of Magic players tend to lack enhanced social skills (which is very important at highly competitive levels of the game actually).
Tl;dr: Everyone is smart in their own way. We also need to remember that as we get older, we get increasingly disconnected with the culture of youths, which means we heavily scrutinize them, even if we don't realize it right away. Also, apologies for any grammaticel missteaks i made during this typing.
If taught well I agree History is one of the most interesting subjects that you can teach, unfortuantly it is alos phenominally to teach badly.
Over here in the UK we got taught a very limited range of history whilst I was in school 10+ years ago now. And we kept going over the same areas again and again, year after year, Tudors, Victorians and Nazi Germany mainly, to the detirment of the general historical picture. It shames me to say it but a well educated foreigner will probably have a better idea of British History than most of the people who leave the English education system.
As Krieg said I am sure that a lot of people don't connect the two world wars with the treatment of Germany at the Versaille peace confrence. But then going back further with WW1 the fact that Clemenceau had been arround at the end of the 1870 Franco-Prussian war and wanted to punish Germany for that gets overlooked aswell.
As to getting the students more interested again speaking from a UK perspective with the blame culture that appears to be growing schools are getting less inclined to do less field work as they get blamed if something goes wrong. Back when I was in school we were taken on a field trip to the Somme battlfields in Belguim to bring home what we were taught in the class room, doing something similar for Omaha beach for the D-Day landings.
- H.L Mencken
I Became insane with long Intervals of horrible Sanity
All Religion, my friend is simply evolved out of fraud, fear, greed, imagination and poetry.
- Edgar Allan Poe
The Crafters' Rules Guru
Take for instance the great Elizabethan novel Pride and Prejudice.
Now they are reprinting but adding new fiction, hence, Pride, Prejudice and Zombies.
If that isn't the greatest debauch I have ever experienced, I don't know what it. It is a blatant slap in the face to the precursors of old and fine tuning it to a lazy, ignorant generation to appease the Twilight reading twits.
Perhaps we should re-make all black and white films in color to make them watchable to high school.
Get'r Dungrove (Friday July 6th - Friday September 21st)
TYPE 2: Best Builds
:symw::symg:Township Tokens 19-8-0 (ret. 2/24/12)
Mono Green Eldrazi 22-8-1 (ret. 10/1/10)
2012 Standard Platinum TCQ - Lowell, MA: Top 20
2012 MaxPoint TCG Open 5k - Providence: Top 35
I try to keep everything in perspective. Some people are wholly ignorant. Most people simply have a base of knowledge to rely upon, and that base differs from person to person.
I have a friend named "Bob" who has a tendency to call me "smart" whereas he considers himself "stupid". Of course, what he is really talk about is knowledge, not intelligence.
Point is, while I do know a lot more about most academic pursuits, if I ever have a problem with my car, do you know who I turn to? I turn to "Bob", because "Bob" knows everything there is to know about cars. He doesn't lack knowledge, he simply has a specific knowledge set.
Still, I think you're right that most people have atrocious spelling and grammar. While I certainly disapprove of such things, I try to remember how poor my spelling and grammar was at that age. Nothing to write home about. (It still isn't.)
The OP made a mistake in using the word 'intelligent'. He should have used the word ignorant, which is what was conveyed in the rest of his post. No one is directly quantifying classic books with intelligence but it does correlate to thier ignorance. Besides like you said it was just an example and we should probably move on.
Most of these examples show the person having some form of ignorance. The ditz in the example could probably be considered unintelligent even with a degree. Maybe she just has a good memory, which isnt always contigent on being intelligent.
I can, however, relate to you on having trouble finding classes that interest you. Alot of kids are cheated or are overlooked if their interest cannot be maintained by subpar teaching (or inherently boring curriculum).
I wish it were true but its just not. Some people are just flat out dumb and have no redeaming qualities
Well you can make subjects more interesting without losing subject content. Some teachers just dont know how to teach. Instead of vomiting the information at them and hoping it sticks, they need to actually teach the kids. Some teachers are just innept socially and have no idea how to connect to their students. A little exuberance for the subject matter and a little creative thinking on how to present the subject to them goes a long way. Weve all had that one teacher who was just so abhorrantly boring. Always speaking in a boring monotone voice, not really interacting with the kids. Not really finding ways to challenge their minds other than pop quizes and mindless reports.
Ted Turner is probably doing this right now. I think hes done it to a few already. I remember him doing it to the classic warner bros. and mgm cartoons.
Yes, now that I think back, that would be a more appropriate term. When I wrote the OP earlier today, I kinda rambled.
Get'r Dungrove (Friday July 6th - Friday September 21st)
TYPE 2: Best Builds
:symw::symg:Township Tokens 19-8-0 (ret. 2/24/12)
Mono Green Eldrazi 22-8-1 (ret. 10/1/10)
2012 Standard Platinum TCQ - Lowell, MA: Top 20
2012 MaxPoint TCG Open 5k - Providence: Top 35
Defining intelligence as problem-solving skills, of course. Answering a question about literature is different from answering a mathematical problem, but they are both problems and have solutions.
Source? How did they measure the problem solvinng skills of Imohtep and Alexander the Great?
Hell if I remember. Guess you're just going to have to either take my word for it, or google it. But honestly- just think about it. In the past hundred years we have invented more widespread tools and technologies than the inventions of entire existence of humanity since before we were human. But you do have to give some credit to the outliers like Newton, Euler, Da Vinci, etc. who were simply geniuses.
EDIT: Just to clarify, I'm not saying that we now have more capacity for knowledge than our predecessors, but the improvements in education and technology have given the average person a much more powerful experience.
"If I have seen further it is only by standing on the shoulders of giants."
Maybe because each succesive generation had access to more knowledge. The twentieth century explosion was bound to happen after our accumulated knowledge reached a critical mass. But Im not sure we can say or know if our actual intellect has been going up. Sure some people, through thier environment and other stimuli, can develope increased problem solving skills. Dont know if they have been passing it on to their kids though.
EDIT:Saw your edit and completely agree. Again though, intelligence =/=knowledge
Me: So how was your weekend?
Her: Oh it was like totally great, one girl even asked if I was intellectual.
Me: ...
Her: I told her "I Love That Band", though what is Intellectual anyway.
Me: Your intellect.
Her: ...... *She's waiting for an answer she can understand.
Me: *Okay she doesn't understand Intellect, lets try being blunt as all possible* Your Smarts.
Her: Oh! Well I thought it was a band.
I wish I was kidding guys and gals. I have met people with very limited vocabulary as old as I am (Age 18 ATM).
We've had to read the classics, but teachers actually try to dumb them for us, for example we had to read "La Araucana" (really important book here, probably worldwide), and instead we read a chapter and then make a report about it, with "El Quijote" they gave us some pages and we had to fill the spaces in blank, because getting good marks was better than actually knowing the stuff.
My teachers aren't much more educated either than us, my biology teacher thought elefantiasis was a pituitary gland problem and my history teacher really thought the Hymalayas was a peninsula.
The funny thing is that if I didn't correct them my classmates would really have taken that for granted (and of course everyone gets pissed off whn I correct the teachers, o well :rolleyes:)
So, if the teachers don't even know, how do you expect us to?
:laugh::laugh::laugh:
5 or so years ago I worked at an optometrists lab. I grew up with the doc's kids and the sons were very bright. The daughter however was special. One day I asked her to fax something. She didnt come back for a while. I went to check on her and she was standing there all confused. She said, "I dont know why its not sending. It did everything right, but the paper keeps coming back out." she sends the fax again (correctly), and then says, "see it just keeps rejecting it and not sending it to them." After much confusion, turns out she thought it physically sent your peice of paper (star trek teleporter style maybe) through the telephone lines. She was 20 at the time, and in college. This is just the tip of the iceberg with her. Scary thing is shes studying to be an opthamologist as we speak.
Wow she must also believe in pillowpants.
Dont even know what to say about all of that. Sounds really deplorable. Im sorry that you have to suffer in that kind of institution.