For those of you who did discover you were gay, was it easy after you matured through adolescence? I would think it should be. I mean, you can be either sexually or romantically inclined towards members of the same sex (usually these are closely intertwined but I can easily see one without the other).
So you a) watch gay porn/men in the public showers and objectively think about how aroused you are and b) honestly ask yourself if you get nervous fluttery feelings around your guy friends.
I often wish I were gay, but I can pretty comfortably rule out that possibility... I don't see how a fully developed person could be confused about this.
Not being from a religious family, it wasn't so difficult for me.
It still took me awhile to fully admit that I was gay, and not just curious about guys, and not bisexual (I mean, I don't think that I'd say I'm 100% gay, but definitely in the 90s).
I wish I had figured it out a bit earlier and been fine with it, just so I could've maybe dated in high school. Although I think that the small numbers of open gay guys generally makes things difficult in a lot of places for that anyway, so I don't really know who I would've dated anyway...
This is why meeting potential partners on the internet is not made fun of so much in the gay community (I occasionally hear straight guys say that internet dating is only for losers), especially if you're not in a city with a large gay community.
For those of you who did discover you were gay, was it easy after you matured through adolescence?
For me? Yes. It became exponentially easier to be comfortable and sure of my sexual orientation as I became more comfortable and sure of myself as a person.
So you a) watch gay porn/men in the public showers and objectively think about how aroused you are and b) honestly ask yourself if you get nervous fluttery feelings around your guy friends.
More or less. I can be more or less complex than that given specific people and situations, but yeah.
I don't see how a fully developed person could be confused about this.
You'd be surprised. Denial, religious pressure and social conditioning can all be incredibly potent inhibitors. Being told long enough that something is bad can push it down under a layer of repression. I've heard stories of people not accepting their sexuality until much later in life for exactly those reasons. Though at that point, it's not so much confusion as it is refusal.
I figured I would put my two cents in and relate my personal “discovery” story and my best friends(she is a lesbian).
I went through puberty in the early 90s when it wasn’t a huge taboo to be gay but also not ok to flaunt it about, keep it hush hush. I actually went through puberty early on so it was a struggle to come to terms with my feelings. The reason was I didn’t have a point of reference to what the feelings were. The internet was no help back then(dial-up, only real chat rooms were IRC, etc etc), there were virtually no gays on tv and if there were no one talked about them so how was I suppose to know what was going on?
At first I just thought I wanted to be friends with guys, I didn’t really think I was attracted to them. Once I did I was scared because, again, I didn’t really know what gay “was”. It was six years before I could truly grasp who I was regarding my sexuality. I didn’t really struggle with it and in those 6 years (10ish to 16ish) I was more asexual then homosexual. I didn’t have sex before 16 and when I would think of sex I would think of the idea of sex, never really go “Oh I am having sex with THAT person”, more of “a person” in general. That might be hard to grasp but that is how it was for me.
At 16 I realized I was gay through my first sexual experience. Through the years I read about gay sex and watched porn online but it still didn’t function with me. I found girls attractive but did not want to have sex with them.
I do not believe I chose this path, truth be told at the time I would not have chosen to be gay. It was very confusing and to this day it saddens me people have to go through that. I am happy now a days homosexuality is in our culture so those who are struggling like I did have a point of reference and won’t be as confused as I was. This confusion is really bad in this stage of life, it really hindered me from having some experiences that should of happened when I was a kid. I was so confused to show any interest in girls OR guys! When driving down the street I wouldn’t even look at a guy walking on a sidewalk in fear that someone would think I was gay. Maybe I was in more denial then confusion, I never really fought being gay I just didn’t understand it.
Now I am fine with it, accepted who I am and moved on with my life. It is apart of me, it doesn’t define me and I get offended when people try to define me by it to tell the truth.
The funny thing is my best friend from when I was 4 years old is a lesbian herself. She was going through her “discovery” when I went through mine though we had a very different “upbringing” concerning our orientation.
She fought it tooth an nail, becoming somewhat of a floozy to sleep with guys to deny she was a lesbian. While mine was 6 years hers were only two but in those two years she had sex with a few guys in school but also older men, she sought them out. She knew what being lesbian meant but back then she thought it meant what was in girl on girl porn for men. Again in our area gays were not thrown out by pitchfork just totally ignored by society.
I came out to her first and took her almost a year to come out to me(we told each other first before anyone ele). Til this day she still hasn’t told some of her family because she knows, sadly, they would disown her for who she is. It is sad she has to do that but she is being selfless, putting her family before her own happiness and I have to give he props. My rebellious faze was around when I discovered I was gay so I told my whole family and some still don’t talk to me unless it is a family gathering. Still she is gay and she can no longer sleep with men because of what she did to try to kill the gay in her. I wish I could have been more help back then.
I do not believe homosexuality is a choice, it was not one for me. I find women attractive but I cannot have sex with them. I would never try because simply I do not ant to, my body would not react in the way it should to a woman. Again, when I was younger I would not choose this path for anyone. It is terrifying being gay and coming out, not knowing how people will react to it. It is terrifying that you are different from the majority, it isn’t like I came out of the womb with a rainbow tattoo and fabulous fohawk letting my parents know I was gay. It was something I hd to tell them, something they wouldn’t know otherwise and unless you have gone through that you cannot know how stressful/terrifying that feeling is. It is something I had panic attacks about, it was that bad. I was lucky though and only lost a few friends and some of my family doesn’t talk to me too often.
I believe the reason people think it is a choice is because some chose not to “come out”. That really isn’t a choice made because they do not want to be gay, it is because 99% of the time they are terrified to come out. It isn’t like you come out and get your gay badge and you are done. It is a process that really funks you up no matter how positive it might be.
So back to the OP, how do you know you are gay? If you are sexually attracted to guys make a choice to either act upon it or not. Do not place a label on yourself until you make the choice. If the attraction is there though, carefully, act upon it. Take it from someone who struggled with it for years, the attraction was there and when finally I got the balls up to act upon I became a happier person
One thing, im curious about is... the "culture"...
what made some trends more popular than others, and why some women choose to look more masculine while their partner looks more feminine?
That is more of a choice thing then being gay itself, it is how they decide to express their sexual orientation. Some homosexuals prefer to take on more of a feminine role(for both gays and lesbians) and other mroe of a masculine(considered "butch").
This is fully a choice and I do not understand the gay lisp for men...mainly because i do not have one at all
One thing, im curious about is... the "culture"...
what made some trends more popular than others, and why some women choose to look more masculine while their partner looks more feminine?
Purely an expression of self, no different from any other person. Some girls like to have long hair, other like it short and dyed funky colors. Some girls like to dress classy, others are most comfortable in jeans and a t-shirt. Some guys like baggy jeans, others like slim jeans. Etc, etc, etc. Personal expression can be informed in some ways by sexual orientation (particularly when we start to talk about how stereotypical definitions and social expectations influence how we express ourselves), but it's not dictated by it.
This is fully a choice and I do not understand the gay lisp for men...mainly because i do not have one at all
If I'm not mistaken, the lisp has been indicated to be influenced heavily by peculiarities in the brain. I'm just drawing on what I think I remember from an article I once read (so don't take too much stock in it), but I believe I read that it has to do with certain parts of the male brain behaving as a female brain would (remembering of course that there are particular differences between the male and female brains).
That is more of a choice thing then being gay itself, it is how they decide to express their sexual orientation. Some homosexuals prefer to take on more of a feminine role(for both gays and lesbians) and other mroe of a masculine(considered "butch").
This is fully a choice and I do not understand the gay lisp for men...mainly because i do not have one at all
I searched online, and it seem like you aren't the only one... heck I never heard of this before and I do have homosexual friends...
hmm... do you think, the expression is psychological or is there some other factor involved?
If I'm not mistaken, the lisp has been indicated to be influenced heavily by peculiarities in the brain. I'm just drawing on what I think I remember from an article I once read (so don't take too much stock in it), but I believe I read that it has to do with certain parts of the male brain behaving as a female brain would (remembering of course that there are particular differences between the male and female brains).
I'm sure someone will correct me if I'm wrong.
Oh really? if you can find the article I would love to read it because I cannot wrap my head around it. you either have it or you don't, it is not like coming from Scottland and having a Scottish accent so it just seems really odd to me that sexuality can have an effect an accent.
Oh really? if you can find the article I would love to read it because I cannot wrap my head around it. you either have it or you don't, it is not like coming from Scottland and having a Scottish accent so it just seems really odd to me that sexuality can have an effect an accent.
If I'm not mistaken, it was an article investigating what influences effeminacy in gay men overall, but I can't for the life of me find it.
Wikipedia says that there isn't any proof of the lisp being something that happens. Personally, I think it's possibly affected - an attempt to fit into this new group the person finds themselves in. [But I don't know any gay people well enough to say anything definitive.]
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
my mouth is full of winsome lies -
and eyes are full of death besides
but luckily the soul is wise -
it sees beyond my blindness and
forced failure makes a better guise,
so as i come again alive,
it feels like life's a decent plan
Oh really? if you can find the article I would love to read it because I cannot wrap my head around it. you either have it or you don't, it is not like coming from Scottland and having a Scottish accent so it just seems really odd to me that sexuality can have an effect an accent.
If I spent a lot of time in Scotland I might pick up a bit of a scottish accent. I mean Madonna can do it.
Mikey: I wish I could find that article about effiminent males (and how it's likely that about 95% of effiminate males are actually gay) I'm sure it's in the gaymers thread
If I spent a lot of time in Scotland I might pick up a bit of a scottish accent. I mean Madonna can do it.
Mikey: I wish I could find that article about effiminent males (and how it's likely that about 95% of effiminate males are actually gay) I'm sure it's in the gaymers thread
But its not liek there is a place like Gaytopia. I have a friend who is gay who is form alabama with the full on gay swagger(way he moves, talks, etc etc). No Alabama twang or anything...i just find it really odd that physically being gay can alter your accent...not denying it, just find it really odd.
edit: oh and clue <3, one of the best 80s/early 90s movies of all times. So quirky
I just think sometimes it's affected and sometimes people just accidentally slip into it. There's bound to be a predisposition to speak a certain way genetically. I mean not everyone's voice is the same. Perhaps it's from viewing the previously prototypical homosexual in the media that spawns the lisp now but then where did it come from originally? Perhaps it's from only being able to relate to women and so naturally there's a feeling of acclimatizing to fit in there. (Speak softer or with a higher voice).
I've heard all kinds of gay voices. My sister says I never used to lisp but apparently every once in a while it happens now. I don't know how it happened and I cthertainly don't go out of my way to do it. And since I'm not aware that I'm doing it I can't really control it unless I focus really hard.
I never wanted a lisp and will be glad if I figure out how to get rid of it. But this is all way off the OP topic.
I do hope this thread has shown a lot of people that every gay person's experience is different. And it's comforting to see that there are a lot of queer and queer friendly people on this forum even if they aren't a part of the Gaymer's clan.
@ Mikey : Good advice, I am glad to live in a world with people like you.
As far as advice goes, all I can say is being happy should be paramount. In the end it doesn't matter if you love a woman or a man, if they are the one you can sincerely see yourself growing old with, then everything else will resolve itself eventually.
Kinda corny, I know, but it is true. It took me a long time to start figuring it out (I am still pretty oblivious to the answers to some other personal questions, but at least I got that one.)
Before I stop rambling, I would like to also point out that human sexuality is fluid (this has been mentioned before in the thread) so, yeah. . . don't think about it too much. In the end it's all natural.
If I'm not mistaken, the lisp has been indicated to be influenced heavily by peculiarities in the brain. I'm just drawing on what I think I remember from an article I once read (so don't take too much stock in it), but I believe I read that it has to do with certain parts of the male brain behaving as a female brain would (remembering of course that there are particular differences between the male and female brains).
I'm sure someone will correct me if I'm wrong.
As a linguistics grad student, I've read a number of articles about gay speech, and I haven't read anything that indicates it has a physical basis.
The exact formula for "sounding gay" isn't fully understood, and probably there isn't only one way to do it. But all the aspects of speech that have been proposed as being the basis for a person sounding gay (or lesbian, for that matter) are features that vary from dialect to dialect, and thus can be presumed to be under a person's control to some extent.
That doesn't mean that people are necessarily speaking in a certain way through conscious effort - there isn't a genetic or physical basis for having a Southern accent, but Southerners don't necessarily have an easy time slipping in and out of it - but it does suggest that like most linguistic variations between people, it has a cultural basis.
I personally know some people who have started talking more gay over time the longer they've been out of the closet and hanging out with more gay people.
In fact, something related to that issue is probably what I'm going to do my master's project on. The plan, to simplify things a bit, is to investigate the social factors that correlate with "sounding gay".
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
To post a comment, please login or register a new account.
So you a) watch gay porn/men in the public showers and objectively think about how aroused you are and b) honestly ask yourself if you get nervous fluttery feelings around your guy friends.
I often wish I were gay, but I can pretty comfortably rule out that possibility... I don't see how a fully developed person could be confused about this.
It still took me awhile to fully admit that I was gay, and not just curious about guys, and not bisexual (I mean, I don't think that I'd say I'm 100% gay, but definitely in the 90s).
I wish I had figured it out a bit earlier and been fine with it, just so I could've maybe dated in high school. Although I think that the small numbers of open gay guys generally makes things difficult in a lot of places for that anyway, so I don't really know who I would've dated anyway...
This is why meeting potential partners on the internet is not made fun of so much in the gay community (I occasionally hear straight guys say that internet dating is only for losers), especially if you're not in a city with a large gay community.
For me? Yes. It became exponentially easier to be comfortable and sure of my sexual orientation as I became more comfortable and sure of myself as a person.
More or less. I can be more or less complex than that given specific people and situations, but yeah.
You'd be surprised. Denial, religious pressure and social conditioning can all be incredibly potent inhibitors. Being told long enough that something is bad can push it down under a layer of repression. I've heard stories of people not accepting their sexuality until much later in life for exactly those reasons. Though at that point, it's not so much confusion as it is refusal.
Archatmos
Excellion
Fracture: Israfiel (WBR), Wujal (URG), Valedon (GUB), Amduat (BGW), Paladris (RWU)
Collision (Set Two of the Fracture Block)
Quest for the Forsaken (Set Two of the Excellion Block)
Katingal: Plane of Chains
I figured I would put my two cents in and relate my personal “discovery” story and my best friends(she is a lesbian).
I went through puberty in the early 90s when it wasn’t a huge taboo to be gay but also not ok to flaunt it about, keep it hush hush. I actually went through puberty early on so it was a struggle to come to terms with my feelings. The reason was I didn’t have a point of reference to what the feelings were. The internet was no help back then(dial-up, only real chat rooms were IRC, etc etc), there were virtually no gays on tv and if there were no one talked about them so how was I suppose to know what was going on?
At first I just thought I wanted to be friends with guys, I didn’t really think I was attracted to them. Once I did I was scared because, again, I didn’t really know what gay “was”. It was six years before I could truly grasp who I was regarding my sexuality. I didn’t really struggle with it and in those 6 years (10ish to 16ish) I was more asexual then homosexual. I didn’t have sex before 16 and when I would think of sex I would think of the idea of sex, never really go “Oh I am having sex with THAT person”, more of “a person” in general. That might be hard to grasp but that is how it was for me.
At 16 I realized I was gay through my first sexual experience. Through the years I read about gay sex and watched porn online but it still didn’t function with me. I found girls attractive but did not want to have sex with them.
I do not believe I chose this path, truth be told at the time I would not have chosen to be gay. It was very confusing and to this day it saddens me people have to go through that. I am happy now a days homosexuality is in our culture so those who are struggling like I did have a point of reference and won’t be as confused as I was. This confusion is really bad in this stage of life, it really hindered me from having some experiences that should of happened when I was a kid. I was so confused to show any interest in girls OR guys! When driving down the street I wouldn’t even look at a guy walking on a sidewalk in fear that someone would think I was gay. Maybe I was in more denial then confusion, I never really fought being gay I just didn’t understand it.
Now I am fine with it, accepted who I am and moved on with my life. It is apart of me, it doesn’t define me and I get offended when people try to define me by it to tell the truth.
The funny thing is my best friend from when I was 4 years old is a lesbian herself. She was going through her “discovery” when I went through mine though we had a very different “upbringing” concerning our orientation.
She fought it tooth an nail, becoming somewhat of a floozy to sleep with guys to deny she was a lesbian. While mine was 6 years hers were only two but in those two years she had sex with a few guys in school but also older men, she sought them out. She knew what being lesbian meant but back then she thought it meant what was in girl on girl porn for men. Again in our area gays were not thrown out by pitchfork just totally ignored by society.
I came out to her first and took her almost a year to come out to me(we told each other first before anyone ele). Til this day she still hasn’t told some of her family because she knows, sadly, they would disown her for who she is. It is sad she has to do that but she is being selfless, putting her family before her own happiness and I have to give he props. My rebellious faze was around when I discovered I was gay so I told my whole family and some still don’t talk to me unless it is a family gathering. Still she is gay and she can no longer sleep with men because of what she did to try to kill the gay in her. I wish I could have been more help back then.
I do not believe homosexuality is a choice, it was not one for me. I find women attractive but I cannot have sex with them. I would never try because simply I do not ant to, my body would not react in the way it should to a woman. Again, when I was younger I would not choose this path for anyone. It is terrifying being gay and coming out, not knowing how people will react to it. It is terrifying that you are different from the majority, it isn’t like I came out of the womb with a rainbow tattoo and fabulous fohawk letting my parents know I was gay. It was something I hd to tell them, something they wouldn’t know otherwise and unless you have gone through that you cannot know how stressful/terrifying that feeling is. It is something I had panic attacks about, it was that bad. I was lucky though and only lost a few friends and some of my family doesn’t talk to me too often.
I believe the reason people think it is a choice is because some chose not to “come out”. That really isn’t a choice made because they do not want to be gay, it is because 99% of the time they are terrified to come out. It isn’t like you come out and get your gay badge and you are done. It is a process that really funks you up no matter how positive it might be.
So back to the OP, how do you know you are gay? If you are sexually attracted to guys make a choice to either act upon it or not. Do not place a label on yourself until you make the choice. If the attraction is there though, carefully, act upon it. Take it from someone who struggled with it for years, the attraction was there and when finally I got the balls up to act upon I became a happier person
what made some trends more popular than others, and why some women choose to look more masculine while their partner looks more feminine?
This is fully a choice and I do not understand the gay lisp for men...mainly because i do not have one at all
Purely an expression of self, no different from any other person. Some girls like to have long hair, other like it short and dyed funky colors. Some girls like to dress classy, others are most comfortable in jeans and a t-shirt. Some guys like baggy jeans, others like slim jeans. Etc, etc, etc. Personal expression can be informed in some ways by sexual orientation (particularly when we start to talk about how stereotypical definitions and social expectations influence how we express ourselves), but it's not dictated by it.
If I'm not mistaken, the lisp has been indicated to be influenced heavily by peculiarities in the brain. I'm just drawing on what I think I remember from an article I once read (so don't take too much stock in it), but I believe I read that it has to do with certain parts of the male brain behaving as a female brain would (remembering of course that there are particular differences between the male and female brains).
I'm sure someone will correct me if I'm wrong.
Archatmos
Excellion
Fracture: Israfiel (WBR), Wujal (URG), Valedon (GUB), Amduat (BGW), Paladris (RWU)
Collision (Set Two of the Fracture Block)
Quest for the Forsaken (Set Two of the Excellion Block)
Katingal: Plane of Chains
I searched online, and it seem like you aren't the only one... heck I never heard of this before and I do have homosexual friends...
hmm... do you think, the expression is psychological or is there some other factor involved?
Oh really? if you can find the article I would love to read it because I cannot wrap my head around it. you either have it or you don't, it is not like coming from Scottland and having a Scottish accent so it just seems really odd to me that sexuality can have an effect an accent.
If I'm not mistaken, it was an article investigating what influences effeminacy in gay men overall, but I can't for the life of me find it.
Archatmos
Excellion
Fracture: Israfiel (WBR), Wujal (URG), Valedon (GUB), Amduat (BGW), Paladris (RWU)
Collision (Set Two of the Fracture Block)
Quest for the Forsaken (Set Two of the Excellion Block)
Katingal: Plane of Chains
and eyes are full of death besides
but luckily the soul is wise -
it sees beyond my blindness and
forced failure makes a better guise,
so as i come again alive,
it feels like life's a decent plan
If I spent a lot of time in Scotland I might pick up a bit of a scottish accent. I mean Madonna can do it.
Mikey: I wish I could find that article about effiminent males (and how it's likely that about 95% of effiminate males are actually gay) I'm sure it's in the gaymers thread
But its not liek there is a place like Gaytopia. I have a friend who is gay who is form alabama with the full on gay swagger(way he moves, talks, etc etc). No Alabama twang or anything...i just find it really odd that physically being gay can alter your accent...not denying it, just find it really odd.
edit: oh and clue <3, one of the best 80s/early 90s movies of all times. So quirky
I've heard all kinds of gay voices. My sister says I never used to lisp but apparently every once in a while it happens now. I don't know how it happened and I cthertainly don't go out of my way to do it. And since I'm not aware that I'm doing it I can't really control it unless I focus really hard.
I never wanted a lisp and will be glad if I figure out how to get rid of it. But this is all way off the OP topic.
I do hope this thread has shown a lot of people that every gay person's experience is different. And it's comforting to see that there are a lot of queer and queer friendly people on this forum even if they aren't a part of the Gaymer's clan.
As far as advice goes, all I can say is being happy should be paramount. In the end it doesn't matter if you love a woman or a man, if they are the one you can sincerely see yourself growing old with, then everything else will resolve itself eventually.
Kinda corny, I know, but it is true. It took me a long time to start figuring it out (I am still pretty oblivious to the answers to some other personal questions, but at least I got that one.)
Before I stop rambling, I would like to also point out that human sexuality is fluid (this has been mentioned before in the thread) so, yeah. . . don't think about it too much. In the end it's all natural.
The exact formula for "sounding gay" isn't fully understood, and probably there isn't only one way to do it. But all the aspects of speech that have been proposed as being the basis for a person sounding gay (or lesbian, for that matter) are features that vary from dialect to dialect, and thus can be presumed to be under a person's control to some extent.
That doesn't mean that people are necessarily speaking in a certain way through conscious effort - there isn't a genetic or physical basis for having a Southern accent, but Southerners don't necessarily have an easy time slipping in and out of it - but it does suggest that like most linguistic variations between people, it has a cultural basis.
I personally know some people who have started talking more gay over time the longer they've been out of the closet and hanging out with more gay people.
In fact, something related to that issue is probably what I'm going to do my master's project on. The plan, to simplify things a bit, is to investigate the social factors that correlate with "sounding gay".