Lolz, yeah. But ok, how do I stay out of the friend vortex? Which I fear way more than rejection because it often leads to way more painful rejection.
If there were a definitive answer to that question, then the friend vortex wouldn't exist. Your problem amounts to the fact that you're afraid to put your big boy pants on and quit being such a baby about your fear of rejection and/or not getting what you want. And if you haven't gotten over that relatively minor hump by Thursday, you'll have a thread on a Magic forum packed with seven pages of failure and denial to remind you of it.
But still,'sorry if this sounds whiny, but how do I talk to her with her friend there? (a wing man is out of the question)
If it comes down to it, pretend she's not there. What's the worst that could happen? Do you really expect her friend to intervene and say, "you two can't communicate because I say so?"
But the funny thing is, if you manage to bring up a conversation topic that can involve both of them equally, at least one of the following is bound to happen:
A) Her friend will be more reluctant to push you away because you're attempting to be friendly to both of them, and
B) Your intended target will likely be more interested in getting to know you (again, because you're attempting to be friendly to both of them).
What is the reason that your target always has a bodyguard?
Is he the protective kind, or is he also stuck in the eternal friend zone, and tries to get with her out of orbit?
Also, this may or may not be helpful.
Part of your problem is the same as with finding a job. You can't find a job, because everybody wants to employ a person with experience. You have no experience, so you can't get a first job, to get experience.
It's the same with girls. Most girls dubbed out-of-reach just drop into full-blown relationships, because they, and their new boyfriends, are highly experienced in the ritual. That is why some guys have a new girl (and a hot one too) every month, and some guys are alone for many years.
So, when I was very much in love for the first time, I had no experience. But, I had this extremely vivid dreams about us being together. Going out, making out, all the things I would say and do to be the best boyfriend ever. Ding, wake up time, everything is gone again. But, with these thoughts in the back of my head, everytime something happened for the first time (like: dropping the right compliment) felt like a deja-vu, and went partially on auto-pilot. That made me look like a very experienced person, and got me into my first big relationship.
I'm hoping this helps: don't think about your lack of experience, but imagine how it would be to have that experience.
He's saying have lots of dreams about her where you're perfect with her by Thursday and you should be able to go on autopilot. This is kind of short notice, for this I think you might wanna go with what Benalicious Hero said.
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A BFF hm? That's bad news.
Even though they want to do whatever is best for their BFF, they also keep eachother from getting a partner, because that would take time away from being BFFs.
Anyway, time is the biggest problem here. One week.
Well, the shortest solution to that is to arrange overtime. Like, asking her if she wants to go do something with you after this deadline. That would add another chapter to the story, without the time pressure.
Also, retemplating my previous post:
You can't get with your first girl, if every girl wants you to have experience.
So, if you can somehow simulate experience (I don't say fake it, but imagine it), that should open doors.
Be the best version of yourself, as almost everybody has it in them.
My version is something I had never asked for, but just happened: these obsessive but very vivid dreams. Luckily I'm a sane person now.
Trust me, if dreams and fantasies were all it took, I would either be a player or would have found the years ago.
Hehe, of course it isn't.
I forgot to write down the part where I wrote her a poem and gave her a (very cheap but shiney :D) necklace. And guided her home for an hour every day for three months.
Oh and most importantly, far before that there was the part where I took the seat next to her and introduced myself. I'd say that was quite important.
Note that this all comes from a former fail-at-life person (who is now in a happy relationship).
I don't mean to play the devil's advocate here but how well do you know this girl (not gonna read 8 pages), it sounds like you like her because she's a hot girl and thats it, if i misunderstand I'm sorry but you should probobly not try to pick up girls you don't know until college, a final thought is than most middle/high school girls ALWAYS date older guys, and almost never younger, not trying to dream crush but I was a middle schooler once too so I know this stuff.
Eh, middle schoolers around here pretty much do just date whoever they like.
EDIT: I'm still at a loss over how to get over this friend thing... plus I have to make a good enough impression that we can be on talking terms by the end of Thursday at the most. From there we're connected on facebook, so then we can IM and such (once this happens, I can gradually work up into setting up a time to hang out and stuffs)
so yeah, lotsa pressure, and at this point, it's less that I dont have the balls to do it (although that's still a factor) as it is I have not idea how to do the above.
Am I misunderstanding you, or do you already have her on Facebook?
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There is some pretty good advice in this thread. Let me break down what I found while dating in high school, which now that I think about it was 6 years and two degrees ago (so thanks for making me feel old, kid), but hopefully still applies, as the girl I took to the prom my senior year is still my girlfriend.
First, the thing that will attract a girl to you most is confidence. Not just in talking to her, but in everything that you do, because if you like yourself, chance are she will find a reason to like you too. Here is pitfall #1 - faking confidence. If you aren't really confident in yourself, your just going to come across as a jackass by overcompensating. There is always a reason to like yourself (which I don't think is your problem), and with a few exceptions a good sense of humor will overcome your geekiness and make you endearing.
Second, don't go into it looking for a date. No matter how smooth you are, it will probably become obvious quickly and ruin your chance. Plus, if she turns out to be a total airhead, she's not someone you want to be saddled with for a couple hours. Start by just talking to her, and if possible becoming friends. Most of my failed relationships stemmed from the fact that we weren't particularly friends when we started dating, so it made the dinner conversation awkward. Pitfall #2 - the friend zone. Under no circumstances are you to talk to her about other guys or sex in the city (I guess for your generation the no-go would be Twilight). If you do end up talking about these things, don't just agree with everything she says. If you have a contrary point of view, express it, but only in a constructive or joking way, and don't let it become an actual argument (*note from my girlfriend - "Teenage girls like it when you agree with them"). This will keep you from falling into the friend zone.
Third, figure out what you want in a girl first, then find it. Most geeks make the mistake of crushing on the prettiest girls, or the girls that are nice or flirty to everyone. You end up wasting a lot of time and effort on someone who is quite simply never going to date you. Pitfall #3 - Aiming too low. My girlfriend was one of the 'popular girls' in my high school, way above my social circles (although my confident attitude made me friends with almost everyone in my classes by my senior year). She also secretly spent 20 hours a week killing demons in Diablo II. Don't aim for someone you aren't particularly attracted to just because you feel you might have a better chance at success. Becoming friends with girls in your class is relatively easy, and they may open up to you about their secret nerdiness. When you find a girl that's endearing, and makes you laugh as much as you make her laugh, go for it. I will warn you right now, geeky girls can be just as crazy as any other girl, so aiming for the 'gamer girl' may not always be the best option.
After you establish a good rapport, casually asking her out isn't a bad idea. The problem here is cash. If you are 14, chances are you don't have a job. Meeting the girl at a movie theater would be best, as car rides with parents are nightmares in these situations. If the movie theater has a restaurant nearby, all the better. Just be really good and hopefully your parents will cough up the $60 you'll need (dating must be getting hard with skyrocketing ticket prices). If she wants to pay though, offer to pay first, but be gracious about having her contribute, and don't worry about splitting things exactly 50/50. You can always pay for dinner and have her pay for the movie, which is preferable to splitting checks.
Also, don't be disgusting in the restaurant. Poor eating habits will kill the mood faster than anything else. Eat slowly and actually listen to what she has to say. Also, don't go into detail about your geekiness unless she is actually interested. Skim over it and be self-depricating. Most girls are fine with their guys being huge dorks, but it makes for a bad early impression.
The key afterward is not to be desperate. Tell her you had a good time, and don't leave her alone if her parents haven't arrived to pick her up yet. When you are that young, don't worry about a kiss after the date either, just smile and tell her you had a good time.
*Editors Note: This is all pre-facebook advice, btw. There is nothing wrong with Instant Messangers, but they can be a crutch for nerds. Talking on the phone can help a lot.
*Second Edit: Ask her out in person or on the phone, online should be a last resort. You can tell by their reaction what their real feelings on the matter are. It comes down to you gathering up the courage to do it. Think of it like this - what do you have to lose? The embarrassment of being rejected isn't really as bad as you might think. Being more casual about it will help. Rather than, "You want to go out with me?", mention a movie you'd really want to go see, and ask if she would like see it too. You can always add, "hey, at the very least you get a free movie out of the deal" if you are willing to pay.
Also, don't go into detail about your geekiness unless she is actually interested. Skim over it and be self-depricating. Most girls are fine with their guys being huge dorks, but it makes for a bad early impression.
*Second Edit: Ask her out in person or on the phone, online should be a last resort. .
good advice here, specifically these 2 points.
the girl im dating now, she knows i play magic, she even knows i play alot of magic, but at the same time, i dont tell her about playing magic because she doesnt care.
anddd, really, ask her out in person, also id say a couple dates are good before goin all the way to a boyfriend/girlfriend status.
so yeah, lotsa pressure, and at this point, it's less that I dont have the balls to do it (although that's still a factor) as it is I have not idea how to do the above.
No, no really, it's just the first part. Get over yourself and quit yanking everyone's chain. You realize that at this point you're just wasting the time of people who are trying to offer you genuine advice, because you've heard it all by now? There's nothing new in the last six pages of this thread, barring the half-baked excuses you come up with to justify your absolute lack of courage. Just say, "hey, what did you [girls] think of our teacher for this driving course?" That's it. Look, I even came up with the pitch for you. I must be a wizard!
I'm starting to wonder whether or not he's just using this thread to get attention. Whatever his original intention, I think that's what he's doing now. So I personally recommend people stop posting in this thread and feeding him, at least until he finally talks to this girl, something he should have done 8 pages ago.
Yes I have her on FB although I'm not
Pathetic enough to start talking to her on there.and the only reason I didn't talk to her today is because there was a quiz thing and she got to leave early.
Get the ☺☺☺☺ over yourselves. If I really wanted attention I would have just hung out with friends and asked them, but I created this thread to get some advice
From some older more experienced people, which I have gotten, and so now I'm gonna either talk to her or not, whatever u say idc end of story, thread closed.
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If there were a definitive answer to that question, then the friend vortex wouldn't exist. Your problem amounts to the fact that you're afraid to put your big boy pants on and quit being such a baby about your fear of rejection and/or not getting what you want. And if you haven't gotten over that relatively minor hump by Thursday, you'll have a thread on a Magic forum packed with seven pages of failure and denial to remind you of it.
But still,'sorry if this sounds whiny, but how do I talk to her with her friend there? (a wing man is out of the question)
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CCCCCommander Decklists - TheorycraftCCCC
Sig Credit: Pegasus Bishop
If it comes down to it, pretend she's not there. What's the worst that could happen? Do you really expect her friend to intervene and say, "you two can't communicate because I say so?"
But the funny thing is, if you manage to bring up a conversation topic that can involve both of them equally, at least one of the following is bound to happen:
A) Her friend will be more reluctant to push you away because you're attempting to be friendly to both of them, and
B) Your intended target will likely be more interested in getting to know you (again, because you're attempting to be friendly to both of them).
Is he the protective kind, or is he also stuck in the eternal friend zone, and tries to get with her out of orbit?
Also, this may or may not be helpful.
Part of your problem is the same as with finding a job. You can't find a job, because everybody wants to employ a person with experience. You have no experience, so you can't get a first job, to get experience.
It's the same with girls. Most girls dubbed out-of-reach just drop into full-blown relationships, because they, and their new boyfriends, are highly experienced in the ritual. That is why some guys have a new girl (and a hot one too) every month, and some guys are alone for many years.
So, when I was very much in love for the first time, I had no experience. But, I had this extremely vivid dreams about us being together. Going out, making out, all the things I would say and do to be the best boyfriend ever. Ding, wake up time, everything is gone again. But, with these thoughts in the back of my head, everytime something happened for the first time (like: dropping the right compliment) felt like a deja-vu, and went partially on auto-pilot. That made me look like a very experienced person, and got me into my first big relationship.
I'm hoping this helps: don't think about your lack of experience, but imagine how it would be to have that experience.
( 0.0 )
=O ((U/R)) O=
(")(")
I'm an AI making Magic cards.
http://www.staalmedia.nl/nexus/#generate
And could you break that down a bit more? Because it was confusing... I'm supposed to go on autopilot?
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CCCCCommander Decklists - TheorycraftCCCC
Sig Credit: Pegasus Bishop
Modern:
GRB Jund BRG
RBU Grixis Delver UBR
Legacy:
W Death & Taxes W
GRB Punishing Jund BRG
GUR Canadian Threshold RUG
Commander:
RUG Maelstrom Wanderer GUR
Even though they want to do whatever is best for their BFF, they also keep eachother from getting a partner, because that would take time away from being BFFs.
Anyway, time is the biggest problem here. One week.
Well, the shortest solution to that is to arrange overtime. Like, asking her if she wants to go do something with you after this deadline. That would add another chapter to the story, without the time pressure.
Also, retemplating my previous post:
You can't get with your first girl, if every girl wants you to have experience.
So, if you can somehow simulate experience (I don't say fake it, but imagine it), that should open doors.
Be the best version of yourself, as almost everybody has it in them.
My version is something I had never asked for, but just happened: these obsessive but very vivid dreams. Luckily I'm a sane person now.
( 0.0 )
=O ((U/R)) O=
(")(")
I'm an AI making Magic cards.
http://www.staalmedia.nl/nexus/#generate
WUBRGCommander Decklists - PaperWUBRG
CCCCCommander Decklists - TheorycraftCCCC
Sig Credit: Pegasus Bishop
Hehe, of course it isn't.
I forgot to write down the part where I wrote her a poem and gave her a (very cheap but shiney :D) necklace. And guided her home for an hour every day for three months.
Oh and most importantly, far before that there was the part where I took the seat next to her and introduced myself. I'd say that was quite important.
Note that this all comes from a former fail-at-life person (who is now in a happy relationship).
( 0.0 )
=O ((U/R)) O=
(")(")
I'm an AI making Magic cards.
http://www.staalmedia.nl/nexus/#generate
EDIT: I'm still at a loss over how to get over this friend thing... plus I have to make a good enough impression that we can be on talking terms by the end of Thursday at the most. From there we're connected on facebook, so then we can IM and such (once this happens, I can gradually work up into setting up a time to hang out and stuffs)
so yeah, lotsa pressure, and at this point, it's less that I dont have the balls to do it (although that's still a factor) as it is I have not idea how to do the above.
WUBRGCommander Decklists - PaperWUBRG
CCCCCommander Decklists - TheorycraftCCCC
Sig Credit: Pegasus Bishop
Modern:
GRB Jund BRG
RBU Grixis Delver UBR
Legacy:
W Death & Taxes W
GRB Punishing Jund BRG
GUR Canadian Threshold RUG
Commander:
RUG Maelstrom Wanderer GUR
First, the thing that will attract a girl to you most is confidence. Not just in talking to her, but in everything that you do, because if you like yourself, chance are she will find a reason to like you too. Here is pitfall #1 - faking confidence. If you aren't really confident in yourself, your just going to come across as a jackass by overcompensating. There is always a reason to like yourself (which I don't think is your problem), and with a few exceptions a good sense of humor will overcome your geekiness and make you endearing.
Second, don't go into it looking for a date. No matter how smooth you are, it will probably become obvious quickly and ruin your chance. Plus, if she turns out to be a total airhead, she's not someone you want to be saddled with for a couple hours. Start by just talking to her, and if possible becoming friends. Most of my failed relationships stemmed from the fact that we weren't particularly friends when we started dating, so it made the dinner conversation awkward. Pitfall #2 - the friend zone. Under no circumstances are you to talk to her about other guys or sex in the city (I guess for your generation the no-go would be Twilight). If you do end up talking about these things, don't just agree with everything she says. If you have a contrary point of view, express it, but only in a constructive or joking way, and don't let it become an actual argument (*note from my girlfriend - "Teenage girls like it when you agree with them"). This will keep you from falling into the friend zone.
Third, figure out what you want in a girl first, then find it. Most geeks make the mistake of crushing on the prettiest girls, or the girls that are nice or flirty to everyone. You end up wasting a lot of time and effort on someone who is quite simply never going to date you. Pitfall #3 - Aiming too low. My girlfriend was one of the 'popular girls' in my high school, way above my social circles (although my confident attitude made me friends with almost everyone in my classes by my senior year). She also secretly spent 20 hours a week killing demons in Diablo II. Don't aim for someone you aren't particularly attracted to just because you feel you might have a better chance at success. Becoming friends with girls in your class is relatively easy, and they may open up to you about their secret nerdiness. When you find a girl that's endearing, and makes you laugh as much as you make her laugh, go for it. I will warn you right now, geeky girls can be just as crazy as any other girl, so aiming for the 'gamer girl' may not always be the best option.
After you establish a good rapport, casually asking her out isn't a bad idea. The problem here is cash. If you are 14, chances are you don't have a job. Meeting the girl at a movie theater would be best, as car rides with parents are nightmares in these situations. If the movie theater has a restaurant nearby, all the better. Just be really good and hopefully your parents will cough up the $60 you'll need (dating must be getting hard with skyrocketing ticket prices). If she wants to pay though, offer to pay first, but be gracious about having her contribute, and don't worry about splitting things exactly 50/50. You can always pay for dinner and have her pay for the movie, which is preferable to splitting checks.
Also, don't be disgusting in the restaurant. Poor eating habits will kill the mood faster than anything else. Eat slowly and actually listen to what she has to say. Also, don't go into detail about your geekiness unless she is actually interested. Skim over it and be self-depricating. Most girls are fine with their guys being huge dorks, but it makes for a bad early impression.
The key afterward is not to be desperate. Tell her you had a good time, and don't leave her alone if her parents haven't arrived to pick her up yet. When you are that young, don't worry about a kiss after the date either, just smile and tell her you had a good time.
*Editors Note: This is all pre-facebook advice, btw. There is nothing wrong with Instant Messangers, but they can be a crutch for nerds. Talking on the phone can help a lot.
*Second Edit: Ask her out in person or on the phone, online should be a last resort. You can tell by their reaction what their real feelings on the matter are. It comes down to you gathering up the courage to do it. Think of it like this - what do you have to lose? The embarrassment of being rejected isn't really as bad as you might think. Being more casual about it will help. Rather than, "You want to go out with me?", mention a movie you'd really want to go see, and ask if she would like see it too. You can always add, "hey, at the very least you get a free movie out of the deal" if you are willing to pay.
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good advice here, specifically these 2 points.
the girl im dating now, she knows i play magic, she even knows i play alot of magic, but at the same time, i dont tell her about playing magic because she doesnt care.
anddd, really, ask her out in person, also id say a couple dates are good before goin all the way to a boyfriend/girlfriend status.
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No, no really, it's just the first part. Get over yourself and quit yanking everyone's chain. You realize that at this point you're just wasting the time of people who are trying to offer you genuine advice, because you've heard it all by now? There's nothing new in the last six pages of this thread, barring the half-baked excuses you come up with to justify your absolute lack of courage. Just say, "hey, what did you [girls] think of our teacher for this driving course?" That's it. Look, I even came up with the pitch for you. I must be a wizard!
Pathetic enough to start talking to her on there.and the only reason I didn't talk to her today is because there was a quiz thing and she got to leave early.
Get the ☺☺☺☺ over yourselves. If I really wanted attention I would have just hung out with friends and asked them, but I created this thread to get some advice
From some older more experienced people, which I have gotten, and so now I'm gonna either talk to her or not, whatever u say idc end of story, thread closed.
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Sig Credit: Pegasus Bishop