I'm not sure, anyone has ever been in a situation where they are interested in a girl (but not for fling or anything like that), but religion seems to be the biggest obstacle. Like I know many girls who are christian, but have dated guys that are not (usually atheist) and they have arguments over religion (usually girls try to convert the guy and fails) and things usually go downhill after a few years with dreadful breakups.
So now i'm in a reverse situation where I am a Christian (Protestant) and the girl I'm interested in is an atheist. I know sure, we would probably overlook this fact for the first few months, but inevitably I would have to show her to my parents and my parents will expect a christian girlfriend (since purpose of dating to me is for the sole purpose of finding a spouse or else it would be a waste of my time and resources). Now if she isn't religious to begin with so is the battle already lost since changing a person's religious beliefs is usually futile and just go and find a christian girlfriend to save me this obstacle?
Anyone have any similar experiences (doesn't have to be christian)?
P.S. Getting a girlfriend to go out with me isn't my biggest problem (plenty of friends to choose from), but finding a girl with a personality similar to mine is
I'm not sure, anyone has ever been in a situation where they are interested in a girl (but not for fling or anything like that), but religion seems to be the biggest obstacle. Like I know many girls who are christian, but have dated guys that are not (usually atheist) and they have arguments over religion (usually girls try to convert the guy and fails) and things usually go downhill after a few years with dreadful breakups.
So now i'm in a reverse situation where I am a Christian (Protestant) and the girl I'm interested in is an atheist. I know sure, we would probably overlook this fact for the first few months, but inevitably I would have to show her to my parents and my parents will expect a christian girlfriend (since purpose of dating to me is for the sole purpose of finding a spouse or else it would be a waste of my time and resources). Now if she isn't religious to begin with so is the battle already lost since changing a person's religious beliefs is usually futile and just go and find a christian girlfriend to save me this obstacle?
Anyone have any similar experiences (doesn't have to be christian)
Christianity is about loving everyone.
Why would the fact that she's an atheist be a problem?
Why would the fact that she's an atheist be a problem?
We would have disagreements in the future of how our kids be raised (assuming I achieve my goal of marriage) and I feel it's more trouble than its worth. For example I would like my kids to come to church with me, but she may not be too thrilled (and the idea of donating 10% of my paycheck). These little things add up and not sure if it's worth the trouble and just find a girl who already share these beliefs (and also similar personality to me, the hard part) so i got less to deal with.
People in general like to raise their family in the same way they were raised (assuming they had a positive childhood) and religion is a part of that, so we would already have 2 conflicting views.
(since purpose of dating to me is for the sole purpose of finding a spouse or else it would be a waste of my time and resources).
This sentence is concerning to me. You're coming at this with a completely dispassionate, business-like mindset, and we're talking about relationships.
We would have disagreements in the future of how our kids be raised (assuming I achieve my goal of marriage) and I feel it's more trouble than its worth.
Do you love this girl?
Because if you don't, that's one thing. But if you do and that's conflicting with your prearranged idea of what love is supposed to be, then you need to let go of that idea and just let your love grow.
For example I would like my kids to come to church with me, but she may not be too thrilled (and the idea of donating 10% of my paycheck).
Have you tried asking her about this?
You know people of different faiths and creeds marry each other all the time. You're clearly someone who takes his faith seriously, and you seem concerned about her acceptance of your beliefs, yet she doesn't seem to have a problem with this if she's dating you. In fact, I'm more concerned if it's not the other way around, that you might be the one having trouble accepting hers.
That's the key information that's missing from the OP: her thoughts on all of this. Do you know them? Have you talked about this at all?
These little things add up and not sure if it's worth the trouble and just find a girl who already share these beliefs (and also similar personality to me, the hard part) so i got less to deal with.
I ask again, do you love this girl?
If the answer is yes, then that is the only answer you should need.
This sentence is concerning to me. You're coming at this with a completely dispassionate, business-like mindset, and we're talking about relationships.
Do you love this girl?
Because if you don't, that's one thing. But if you do and that's conflicting with your prearranged idea of what love is supposed to be, then you need to let go of that idea and just let your love grow.
Have you tried asking her about this?
You know people of different faiths and creeds marry each other all the time. You're clearly someone who takes his faith seriously, and you seem concerned about her acceptance of your beliefs, yet she doesn't seem to have a problem with this if she's dating you. In fact, I'm more concerned if it's not the other way around, that you might be the one having trouble accepting hers.
That's the key information that's missing from the OP: her thoughts on all of this. Do you know them? Have you talked about this at all?
I ask again, do you love this girl?
If the answer is yes, then that is the only answer you should need.
Why do people think love is all that matters? I personally don't believe in love as it is just a complex mixture of emotions. The divorce rate statistics (50%) tells us love doesn't solve all problems or that it dies out.
I don't know her thoughts, but usually atheist have no problem in general when dating, it's just marriage is the problem (i'm not sure she will be think about marriage). They probably will be against forced conversion or raising their children in religious environment (hence the problem).
Why would approaching a relationship from a business-like mind be a problem? Old marriage had nothing to do with love, more for family alliances and wealth. I'm just looking for a personality match, if ur personality matches, then love (or whatever mixture of emotions of companionship, friendship, etc) shouldn't be hard to find eventually. Religious beliefs, different issue completely since that's hard to change.
And I don't really know how to not sound like a complete douche when asking the girl about religion. I can just picture it
"I will only date you if will tolerate my religion and if in the future we do get married allow me to raise the children in a religious environment or convert,"
Girls response "..." *slaps and walks away* and I also lose a friend...or piss her off very badly
if your religious, then id probably start looking at doctrine about the matter.
Abraham had a similiar situation with Issac. where he sent his servant out to look for a bride with very strong characteristic towards the belief they had.
In the end it made life a little easier for Issac, but non the less in relationships there will be times where you both just dont agree in certain issues. That just happens because we are all different.
Id say, date her, see how that turns out, but a few years down the road when you want to get married bring it up. See what her stand point on the subject is. and do not push her to join any religion. Respect her beliefs and EXPECT that same amount of respect from her to you.
I personally don't believe in love as it is just a complex mixture of emotions. The divorce rate statistics (50%) tells us love doesn't solve all problems or that it dies out.
I don't know her thoughts, but usually atheist have no problem in general when dating, it's just marriage is the problem (i'm not sure she will be think about marriage). They probably will be against forced conversion or raising their children in religious environment (hence the problem).
Why would approaching a relationship from a business-like mind be a problem?
*blinks* ... Wow.
Ok, you're coming at this completely the wrong mindset, but you're going to have to struggle with that and come to terms with that truth on your own.
Old marriage had nothing to do with love, more for family alliances and wealth. I'm just looking for a personality match, if ur personality matches, then love (or whatever mixture of emotions of companionship, friendship, etc) shouldn't be hard to find eventually. Religious beliefs, different issue completely since that's hard to change.
So, I'm just going to ask, what are you actually looking for?
Because if all you're looking for is a womb that is fertile, you've got like 3 billion choices, you probably won't have much trouble finding one. I just think the whole, "I want to marry you, I don't really particularly care if we love each other or not or whatever, I just want to go on to making babies, will you marry me?" is a great way to pop the question.
That solves the problem quite easily, and opens up a whole world of dating possibilities and allows you to either keep that 10% of your paycheck or donate it to more specific causes to help people rather than on maintaining some church building and paying a minister's salary.
(Oh, you wanted advice that assumes you'll stay a Christian?)
If you are dead-set on tithing 10% and raising the children as devout Christians (that is, not allowing them the choice and not allowing the other partner to promote other ideas to them), personally I wouldn't want to be in a relationship with you in the first place, as an atheist myself.
It would mainly depend on how the girl feels about such issues. I wouldn't compromise on such issues, but this girl might be willing to. I would encourage her not to, but since you're the one asking for advice, not her, I would say to pursue a relationship, but discuss these issues early on (somewhere around dates 2 through 4).
I don't know how true it is about people's beliefs not changing. I've heard stories about people losing their religion and then bringing their spouses along with them, or non-believers deconverting their partners. I don't know how common the opposite is.
While you might try to change her, she might end up changing you. I think it is best not to put yourself in a situation that might be harmful to your faith, her, and your potential children.
I am an atheist and I started dating a girl who was christian. I never discussed religion with her (my policy is I generally don't bring up religion or politics) so she didn't know at first.
After we'd been dating for a while she asked me about my feelings about religion and I told her. At first she was flabbergasted and stated that she couldn't understand my way of thinking.
I explained to her my feelings and why I don't believe and asked her why she believes. She explained that she felt that she needed to believe in something and that the idea that there's nothing after you die was hard for her to except and that she basically needed to believe because of that.
I stated that I didn't understand why she needed to believe in these things and we had a long conversation and didn't discuss it for several months after.
First and foremost, I need to ask a few questions that I don't think have been answered.
- How old are you?
- Likewise, how old is she?
- What is your current environment? (high school, college, out of college, etc)
- Is she a friend of yours or just someone you know?
The advice I'd be willing to give would completely change depending on the answers to these questions. If you're in early high school and so is she, you don't have to worry necessarily about falling in love and committing yourself to converting her just yet. A few trial weeks/months are in order.
As a general bit of advice, though, as a christian with a wonderful girlfriend (a little more than 2 years now), I believe it's important for both of you to at least share christianity in common. Not entirely agreeing on every bit of Christianity together isn't a big problem at all. That's how my GF and I are. The foundation does need to be there, though. If you truly wish to keep growing in your faith, you need the person who may become your future spouse to be growing with you, and not bringing you down or preventing you from growing.
That offhand comment about marriage being the sole purpose of a relationship as if marriage and children are the only things of worth a relationship can produce is extremely worrying to me. Relationships have so much to offer even if neither marriage nor children are on the table that it's staggering to hear someone completely disregard that.
Anyway, about your problem, religion in relationships is only ever a problem if one or more parties in the relationship has to have things their way and refuses to compromise on any level. I suppose it all comes down to what's more important to you: your love for this woman or your need to always have your way when it comes to religion. Expecting conversion or at least acquiescence to your religious expectations (tithing, children raised a certain way, roles in the relationship, wedding standards, etc) isn't really fair to her if she has her own set of ideals. And if you can't compromise at all on any of those points, a relationship with anyone who isn't Christian just like you is going to be hard, if not nigh impossible.
Are you willing to bend on any of your projected ideals? Like, can you picture yourself compromising on the notion of raising any children to be Christian (compromise in that perhaps rather than automatic Christian indoctrination, you each teach your children your religious beliefs and at a later point in their lives allow them to choose for themselves which religious path to take)? If not, save everyone the trouble and just go find yourself a nice Christian girl since you seem to be operating under the misguided belief that love is beside the point and if you get along with a girl long enough love will just happen.
Personally, I don't think it sounds like you're ready for a relationship at all, with an athiest, a Christian or anything else, but I guess your mileage may vary.
Why do people think love is all that matters? I personally don't believe in love as it is just a complex mixture of emotions. The divorce rate statistics (50%) tells us love doesn't solve all problems or that it dies out.
Do you think Jesus would agree with you on that point? Seriously.
A couple of years ago, I became friends with a fundamentalist Christian girl. I connected with her in a way that I had never connected with anyone else. She made me happy and I made her happy. We were friends for 6 months and dated for 6 months and it was probably the best year of my life. Religion was a big barrier for her because Christianity was her lifestyle; she surrounded herself with fundamentalist Christian network of friends. In the end, we stopped dating, primarily because the religious divide was difficult for her. Overall, it was a very positive experience and changed the course of my life for the better.
About a year after that ended, I met a Jewish girl at college who was really interested in me and we've been dating for close to two years now. Religion isn't an issue in this relationship at all, because we don't make it one.
In terms of your situation, it seems like you're thinking really far ahead. If dating this girl seems interesting now, I'd go for it. Dating someone is a good way to find out if something is going to work out in the long run.
I'm not sure, anyone has ever been in a situation where they are interested in a girl (but not for fling or anything like that), but religion seems to be the biggest obstacle. Like I know many girls who are christian, but have dated guys that are not (usually atheist) and they have arguments over religion (usually girls try to convert the guy and fails) and things usually go downhill after a few years with dreadful breakups.
So now i'm in a reverse situation where I am a Christian (Protestant) and the girl I'm interested in is an atheist. I know sure, we would probably overlook this fact for the first few months, but inevitably I would have to show her to my parents and my parents will expect a christian girlfriend (since purpose of dating to me is for the sole purpose of finding a spouse or else it would be a waste of my time and resources). Now if she isn't religious to begin with so is the battle already lost since changing a person's religious beliefs is usually futile and just go and find a christian girlfriend to save me this obstacle?
Anyone have any similar experiences (doesn't have to be christian)?
P.S. Getting a girlfriend to go out with me isn't my biggest problem (plenty of friends to choose from), but finding a girl with a personality similar to mine is
I've been with my fiancee for the past few years, and we're in a similar situation. I'm a Roman Catholic, and she's an atheist.
For us, it's never been a problem. I go to church on Sundays while she hangs out around the house and catches up on her hobbies. We respect each other's freedom of religion, and as a devout Christian, I can't really understand the concept of dismissing someone based solely on their religious choice.
As far as families go, my entire family, both my mother's side and my father's side are Christian. This includes my father's mother, who is about as old-fashioned Catholic as you can get. There has yet to be a problem with any of them with my fiancee over her religious choice. They can tell we're in love with each other and are happy together, and that's really the only thing that should matter. If you encounter any sort of resistance with your family, then point that out to them.
Really, if your faith is strong enough, then there will only be a problem between you two if one of you make it a problem. As long as you both respect each other, which you should if you're in a healthy relationship, then religious affiliation shouldn't be a problem.
Why do people think love is all that matters? I personally don't believe in love as it is just a complex mixture of emotions. The divorce rate statistics (50%) tells us love doesn't solve all problems or that it dies out.
Woman's lib happened. As women are no longer 'trapped' they feel free to leave if they aren't happy. And a relationship with no love fails faster then a good solid loving relationship; whatever 'love' actually is.... a spiritual connection or just a chemical reaction.
I don't know her thoughts, but usually atheist have no problem in general when dating, it's just marriage is the problem (i'm not sure she will be think about marriage). They probably will be against forced conversion or raising their children in religious environment (hence the problem).
It's only a problem if you make it one. 'Forced' anything is just bad... and why shouldn't the atheist have a say as well?
Why would approaching a relationship from a business-like mind be a problem? Old marriage had nothing to do with love, more for family alliances and wealth. I'm just looking for a personality match, if ur personality matches, then love (or whatever mixture of emotions of companionship, friendship, etc) shouldn't be hard to find eventually. Religious beliefs, different issue completely since that's hard to change.
'Old marriage' also had the woman as essentially the chattel of the man; was typically set up by the parents of the two in question and only really expected fidelity (and thus paternity of the expected offspring) of just one partner. "Personality matches" had nothing to do with it.
And I don't really know how to not sound like a complete douche when asking the girl about religion. I can just picture it
"I will only date you if will tolerate my religion and if in the future we do get married allow me to raise the children in a religious environment or convert,"
Girls response "..." *slaps and walks away* and I also lose a friend...or piss her off very badly
...well... that's because this is a douche move. Talking about religion is fine; if respectful on both sides. But you don't want that. You want her essentailly to breed more members of your faith and to not have any input on the religion (or lack) of her own kids and to do it in a loveless relationship to boot. Man, you do need slapped and your own words show you know it.
Do this girl a favor and just stay friends. Relationships are not just for marriage and baby making. They are for caring, for love, for personal growth and so much more. I'm with a Christian man, I'm so not Christian it isn't funny...and yet we are happy, it's been almost 6 years and amazing factoid... we don't have religious fights. It's never been an issue.
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Why do people think love is all that matters? I personally don't believe in love as it is just a complex mixture of emotions. The divorce rate statistics (50%) tells us love doesn't solve all problems or that it dies out.
makes me honestly ask if you're sure you're Christian, because the above does not fit with Christianity. You can't disbelieve in love and believe in Christianity. Love isn't just fundamental to Christianity, it IS Christianity.
And it's hypocritical that you're talking about dumping a girl based around her atheism and your suspicions of her lack of tolerance then post the things you've posted in this thread.
And I don't really know how to not sound like a complete douche when asking the girl about religion. I can just picture it
"I will only date you if will tolerate my religion and if in the future we do get married allow me to raise the children in a religious environment or convert,"
What about that is asking her about her thoughts or feelings or stances with regards to religion? You're not asking anything, you're giving her an ultimatum and saying if she doesn't conform with that, you'll leave her.
You're being hypocritical: you're blaming this girl for not conforming to your parents wishes and not conforming to your expectations, and you're acting like the problem is her beliefs.
The problem is not the difference in religion, and the reason you see that as an issue is part of the real problem. First of all, even if you find a girl who is Christian, you are very, very unlikely to find someone who agrees with you on every aspect of every single theological stance. Second, even if you were to find a girl who matched with you exactly on a theological level, what about other points of conflict? Relationships require compromise, and caring, and trust, and you've illustrated neither desire nor capacity for any of these.
Girls response "..." *slaps and walks away* and I also lose a friend...or piss her off very badly
Do you honestly feel you're being a friend to this girl now? You're in a relationship with this girl and you're simultaneously expecting her to marry you and conform to your every desire and making it very clear you don't love her at all. She has the right to be angry.
Look, be as upfront about your beliefs to this woman as possible, because I really am worried she might actually have feelings for you, and if this is the case, you need to be very clear they're not reciprocated, because I don't want you to do any more damage to this girl's heart than you already have.
Quote from {mikeyG} »
Personally, I don't think it sounds like you're ready for a relationship at all, with an athiest, a Christian or anything else, but I guess your mileage may vary.
Agreement. I found actually found another quote that worries me:
First and foremost, I need to ask a few questions that I don't think have been answered.
- How old are you?
- Likewise, how old is she?
- What is your current environment? (high school, college, out of college, etc)
- Is she a friend of yours or just someone you know?
Me, I'm 22 and going into 1st year of masters (so marriage isn't that far off).
She's 20.
She is a friend of mine.
Thanks for the advice, I guess my responses were a little extreme. I guess I should clarify, i don't believe in the Disney love (the one and only soulmate in the world perfect for you, anyone can do) doesn't exclude the belief of agape love or any other type of love. The english language uses love too broadly. For those who are religious and married to an atheist, do you have kids? How do u overcome challenges when one spouse wants to raise the kids in a religious family and the other doesn't? Let the kids decide (usually results in sleeping in on Sundays :P)?
And no, I don't believe in marriage for the sole purpose of kids, they are a side effect, but a significant one that must be considered.
Why is that? It's not like there's a marriage deadline. You could still be a decade or more away from marriage.
I never said there was a deadline, but if one can start early, why not? You are usually not gonna get it right the first time dating someone and even if u do, it usually 2-4 years before the decision is decided.
At the OP: Before you decide whether you're going to date this girl, I want to echo what others have said, and tell you that you need to re-evaluate your position on "love". After all, it is one of the most commonly occurring words in the Bible. Then, there's this little gem from Ephesians 5:
Husbands, love your wives, just as Christ loved the church and gave himself up for her to make her holy, cleansing her by the washing with water through the word, and to present her to himself as a radiant church, without stain or wrinkle or any other blemish, but holy and blameless. In this same way, husbands ought to love their wives as their own bodies. He who loves his wife loves himself. After all, no one ever hated his own body, but he feeds and cares for it, just as Christ does the church- for we are members of his body. "For this reason a man will leave his father and mother and be united to his wife, and the two will become one flesh." This is a profound mystery-but I am talking about Christ and the church. However, each one of you also must love his wife as he loves himself, and the wife must respect her husband.
So, the Bible commands husbands to love their wives. In this sense, I agree with your earlier statement, that love (as an emotion) is given too high a value in our society. Love, as a choice, is your responsibility as a husband, even to the degree that you be prepared to do what Christ did for humanity: to die for her sake.
On that note, since your responsibility as a Christian husband will be to be prepared to even sacrifice your life, you also need to be prepared to serve her in "lesser" areas. It most definitely is not all about you. In fact, I'd argue it is quite the opposite.
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At the OP: Before you decide whether you're going to date this girl, I want to echo what others have said, and tell you that you need to re-evaluate your position on "love". After all, it is one of the most commonly occurring words in the Bible. Then, there's this little gem from Ephesians 5:
So, the Bible commands husbands to love their wives. In this sense, I agree with your earlier statement, that love (as an emotion) is given too high a value in our society. Love, as a choice, is your responsibility as a husband, even to the degree that you be prepared to do what Christ did for humanity: to die for her sake.
On that note, since your responsibility as a Christian husband will be to be prepared to even sacrifice your life, you also need to be prepared to serve her in "lesser" areas. It most definitely is not all about you. In fact, I'd argue it is quite the opposite.
I never disagreed with that point. Once you are married, I know I have responsibilities like sacrificing myself for her sake. I never said it was about me, but more about building a foundation of relationship based on 2 conflicting religious views seem like a bad place to start, for me and her in the long run.
I never said there was a deadline, but if one can start early, why not?
A vast number of reasons, really. First and foremost being that you may not be ready for it. Being able to do something does not make it a wise decision to do so.
You are usually not gonna get it right the first time dating someone and even if u do, it usually 2-4 years before the decision is decided.
Maybe, maybe not. But is deciding that before you even start a wise thing to do?
At the OP: Before you decide whether you're going to date this girl, I want to echo what others have said, and tell you that you need to re-evaluate your position on "love". After all, it is one of the most commonly occurring words in the Bible. Then, there's this little gem from Ephesians 5:
So, the Bible commands husbands to love their wives. In this sense, I agree with your earlier statement, that love (as an emotion) is given too high a value in our society. Love, as a choice, is your responsibility as a husband, even to the degree that you be prepared to do what Christ did for humanity: to die for her sake.
On that note, since your responsibility as a Christian husband will be to be prepared to even sacrifice your life, you also need to be prepared to serve her in "lesser" areas. It most definitely is not all about you. In fact, I'd argue it is quite the opposite.
11 Nevertheless neither is the man without the woman, neither the woman without the man, in the Lord.
4 A virtuous Womanis a crown to her Husband : but she that maketh ashamed is as rottenness in his bones.
I wont quote the last one because you should read the entire entry. Its a union after all, and just as you should be willing to take her up. She must be willing to give her self up to you.
sigh... i remember when i was 22 and thinking the same thing... im 25 i got married last year... and i love it.
then again, if i were with say, my first girlfriend id be dreading it...
So now i'm in a reverse situation where I am a Christian (Protestant) and the girl I'm interested in is an atheist. I know sure, we would probably overlook this fact for the first few months, but inevitably I would have to show her to my parents and my parents will expect a christian girlfriend (since purpose of dating to me is for the sole purpose of finding a spouse or else it would be a waste of my time and resources). Now if she isn't religious to begin with so is the battle already lost since changing a person's religious beliefs is usually futile and just go and find a christian girlfriend to save me this obstacle?
Anyone have any similar experiences (doesn't have to be christian)?
P.S. Getting a girlfriend to go out with me isn't my biggest problem (plenty of friends to choose from), but finding a girl with a personality similar to mine is
Christianity is about loving everyone.
Why would the fact that she's an atheist be a problem?
We would have disagreements in the future of how our kids be raised (assuming I achieve my goal of marriage) and I feel it's more trouble than its worth. For example I would like my kids to come to church with me, but she may not be too thrilled (and the idea of donating 10% of my paycheck). These little things add up and not sure if it's worth the trouble and just find a girl who already share these beliefs (and also similar personality to me, the hard part) so i got less to deal with.
People in general like to raise their family in the same way they were raised (assuming they had a positive childhood) and religion is a part of that, so we would already have 2 conflicting views.
This sentence is concerning to me. You're coming at this with a completely dispassionate, business-like mindset, and we're talking about relationships.
Do you love this girl?
Because if you don't, that's one thing. But if you do and that's conflicting with your prearranged idea of what love is supposed to be, then you need to let go of that idea and just let your love grow.
Have you tried asking her about this?
You know people of different faiths and creeds marry each other all the time. You're clearly someone who takes his faith seriously, and you seem concerned about her acceptance of your beliefs, yet she doesn't seem to have a problem with this if she's dating you. In fact, I'm more concerned if it's not the other way around, that you might be the one having trouble accepting hers.
That's the key information that's missing from the OP: her thoughts on all of this. Do you know them? Have you talked about this at all?
I ask again, do you love this girl?
If the answer is yes, then that is the only answer you should need.
Children. Religious people think religion is good for their children, atheists do not.
You're going to have to decide how important religion is in respect to having children, since, imo, that is the major problem with this dilemma.
Why do people think love is all that matters? I personally don't believe in love as it is just a complex mixture of emotions. The divorce rate statistics (50%) tells us love doesn't solve all problems or that it dies out.
I don't know her thoughts, but usually atheist have no problem in general when dating, it's just marriage is the problem (i'm not sure she will be think about marriage). They probably will be against forced conversion or raising their children in religious environment (hence the problem).
Why would approaching a relationship from a business-like mind be a problem? Old marriage had nothing to do with love, more for family alliances and wealth. I'm just looking for a personality match, if ur personality matches, then love (or whatever mixture of emotions of companionship, friendship, etc) shouldn't be hard to find eventually. Religious beliefs, different issue completely since that's hard to change.
And I don't really know how to not sound like a complete douche when asking the girl about religion. I can just picture it
"I will only date you if will tolerate my religion and if in the future we do get married allow me to raise the children in a religious environment or convert,"
Girls response "..." *slaps and walks away* and I also lose a friend...or piss her off very badly
Abraham had a similiar situation with Issac. where he sent his servant out to look for a bride with very strong characteristic towards the belief they had.
In the end it made life a little easier for Issac, but non the less in relationships there will be times where you both just dont agree in certain issues. That just happens because we are all different.
Id say, date her, see how that turns out, but a few years down the road when you want to get married bring it up. See what her stand point on the subject is. and do not push her to join any religion. Respect her beliefs and EXPECT that same amount of respect from her to you.
Because love IS all that matters.
*blinks* ... Wow.
Ok, you're coming at this completely the wrong mindset, but you're going to have to struggle with that and come to terms with that truth on your own.
So, I'm just going to ask, what are you actually looking for?
Because if all you're looking for is a womb that is fertile, you've got like 3 billion choices, you probably won't have much trouble finding one. I just think the whole, "I want to marry you, I don't really particularly care if we love each other or not or whatever, I just want to go on to making babies, will you marry me?" is a great way to pop the question.
That solves the problem quite easily, and opens up a whole world of dating possibilities and allows you to either keep that 10% of your paycheck or donate it to more specific causes to help people rather than on maintaining some church building and paying a minister's salary.
(Oh, you wanted advice that assumes you'll stay a Christian?)
If you are dead-set on tithing 10% and raising the children as devout Christians (that is, not allowing them the choice and not allowing the other partner to promote other ideas to them), personally I wouldn't want to be in a relationship with you in the first place, as an atheist myself.
It would mainly depend on how the girl feels about such issues. I wouldn't compromise on such issues, but this girl might be willing to. I would encourage her not to, but since you're the one asking for advice, not her, I would say to pursue a relationship, but discuss these issues early on (somewhere around dates 2 through 4).
I don't know how true it is about people's beliefs not changing. I've heard stories about people losing their religion and then bringing their spouses along with them, or non-believers deconverting their partners. I don't know how common the opposite is.
http://www.gotquestions.org/date-marry-unbeliever.html
http://www.neverthirsty.org/pp/corner/read/r00060.html
While you might try to change her, she might end up changing you. I think it is best not to put yourself in a situation that might be harmful to your faith, her, and your potential children.
Not exactly. Regardless, loving everyone doesn't equate to being IN love with everyone or to marrying everyone.
EDIT:
Here is a more detailed, more researched article with points from both sides:
http://www.religioustolerance.org/ifm_bibl.htm
After we'd been dating for a while she asked me about my feelings about religion and I told her. At first she was flabbergasted and stated that she couldn't understand my way of thinking.
I explained to her my feelings and why I don't believe and asked her why she believes. She explained that she felt that she needed to believe in something and that the idea that there's nothing after you die was hard for her to except and that she basically needed to believe because of that.
I stated that I didn't understand why she needed to believe in these things and we had a long conversation and didn't discuss it for several months after.
She's now an atheist and we're married.
- How old are you?
- Likewise, how old is she?
- What is your current environment? (high school, college, out of college, etc)
- Is she a friend of yours or just someone you know?
The advice I'd be willing to give would completely change depending on the answers to these questions. If you're in early high school and so is she, you don't have to worry necessarily about falling in love and committing yourself to converting her just yet. A few trial weeks/months are in order.
As a general bit of advice, though, as a christian with a wonderful girlfriend (a little more than 2 years now), I believe it's important for both of you to at least share christianity in common. Not entirely agreeing on every bit of Christianity together isn't a big problem at all. That's how my GF and I are. The foundation does need to be there, though. If you truly wish to keep growing in your faith, you need the person who may become your future spouse to be growing with you, and not bringing you down or preventing you from growing.
Anyway, about your problem, religion in relationships is only ever a problem if one or more parties in the relationship has to have things their way and refuses to compromise on any level. I suppose it all comes down to what's more important to you: your love for this woman or your need to always have your way when it comes to religion. Expecting conversion or at least acquiescence to your religious expectations (tithing, children raised a certain way, roles in the relationship, wedding standards, etc) isn't really fair to her if she has her own set of ideals. And if you can't compromise at all on any of those points, a relationship with anyone who isn't Christian just like you is going to be hard, if not nigh impossible.
Are you willing to bend on any of your projected ideals? Like, can you picture yourself compromising on the notion of raising any children to be Christian (compromise in that perhaps rather than automatic Christian indoctrination, you each teach your children your religious beliefs and at a later point in their lives allow them to choose for themselves which religious path to take)? If not, save everyone the trouble and just go find yourself a nice Christian girl since you seem to be operating under the misguided belief that love is beside the point and if you get along with a girl long enough love will just happen.
Personally, I don't think it sounds like you're ready for a relationship at all, with an athiest, a Christian or anything else, but I guess your mileage may vary.
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Do you think Jesus would agree with you on that point? Seriously.
About a year after that ended, I met a Jewish girl at college who was really interested in me and we've been dating for close to two years now. Religion isn't an issue in this relationship at all, because we don't make it one.
In terms of your situation, it seems like you're thinking really far ahead. If dating this girl seems interesting now, I'd go for it. Dating someone is a good way to find out if something is going to work out in the long run.
I've been with my fiancee for the past few years, and we're in a similar situation. I'm a Roman Catholic, and she's an atheist.
For us, it's never been a problem. I go to church on Sundays while she hangs out around the house and catches up on her hobbies. We respect each other's freedom of religion, and as a devout Christian, I can't really understand the concept of dismissing someone based solely on their religious choice.
As far as families go, my entire family, both my mother's side and my father's side are Christian. This includes my father's mother, who is about as old-fashioned Catholic as you can get. There has yet to be a problem with any of them with my fiancee over her religious choice. They can tell we're in love with each other and are happy together, and that's really the only thing that should matter. If you encounter any sort of resistance with your family, then point that out to them.
Really, if your faith is strong enough, then there will only be a problem between you two if one of you make it a problem. As long as you both respect each other, which you should if you're in a healthy relationship, then religious affiliation shouldn't be a problem.
Woman's lib happened. As women are no longer 'trapped' they feel free to leave if they aren't happy. And a relationship with no love fails faster then a good solid loving relationship; whatever 'love' actually is.... a spiritual connection or just a chemical reaction.
It's only a problem if you make it one. 'Forced' anything is just bad... and why shouldn't the atheist have a say as well?
'Old marriage' also had the woman as essentially the chattel of the man; was typically set up by the parents of the two in question and only really expected fidelity (and thus paternity of the expected offspring) of just one partner. "Personality matches" had nothing to do with it.
...well... that's because this is a douche move. Talking about religion is fine; if respectful on both sides. But you don't want that. You want her essentailly to breed more members of your faith and to not have any input on the religion (or lack) of her own kids and to do it in a loveless relationship to boot. Man, you do need slapped and your own words show you know it.
Do this girl a favor and just stay friends. Relationships are not just for marriage and baby making. They are for caring, for love, for personal growth and so much more. I'm with a Christian man, I'm so not Christian it isn't funny...and yet we are happy, it's been almost 6 years and amazing factoid... we don't have religious fights. It's never been an issue.
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Exactly.
drake, this:
makes me honestly ask if you're sure you're Christian, because the above does not fit with Christianity. You can't disbelieve in love and believe in Christianity. Love isn't just fundamental to Christianity, it IS Christianity.
And it's hypocritical that you're talking about dumping a girl based around her atheism and your suspicions of her lack of tolerance then post the things you've posted in this thread.
What about that is asking her about her thoughts or feelings or stances with regards to religion? You're not asking anything, you're giving her an ultimatum and saying if she doesn't conform with that, you'll leave her.
You're being hypocritical: you're blaming this girl for not conforming to your parents wishes and not conforming to your expectations, and you're acting like the problem is her beliefs.
The problem is not the difference in religion, and the reason you see that as an issue is part of the real problem. First of all, even if you find a girl who is Christian, you are very, very unlikely to find someone who agrees with you on every aspect of every single theological stance. Second, even if you were to find a girl who matched with you exactly on a theological level, what about other points of conflict? Relationships require compromise, and caring, and trust, and you've illustrated neither desire nor capacity for any of these.
Do you honestly feel you're being a friend to this girl now? You're in a relationship with this girl and you're simultaneously expecting her to marry you and conform to your every desire and making it very clear you don't love her at all. She has the right to be angry.
Look, be as upfront about your beliefs to this woman as possible, because I really am worried she might actually have feelings for you, and if this is the case, you need to be very clear they're not reciprocated, because I don't want you to do any more damage to this girl's heart than you already have.
Agreement. I found actually found another quote that worries me:
Me, I'm 22 and going into 1st year of masters (so marriage isn't that far off).
She's 20.
She is a friend of mine.
Thanks for the advice, I guess my responses were a little extreme. I guess I should clarify, i don't believe in the Disney love (the one and only soulmate in the world perfect for you, anyone can do) doesn't exclude the belief of agape love or any other type of love. The english language uses love too broadly. For those who are religious and married to an atheist, do you have kids? How do u overcome challenges when one spouse wants to raise the kids in a religious family and the other doesn't? Let the kids decide (usually results in sleeping in on Sundays :P)?
And no, I don't believe in marriage for the sole purpose of kids, they are a side effect, but a significant one that must be considered.
Why is that? It's not like there's a marriage deadline. You could still be a decade or more away from marriage.
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I never said there was a deadline, but if one can start early, why not? You are usually not gonna get it right the first time dating someone and even if u do, it usually 2-4 years before the decision is decided.
So, the Bible commands husbands to love their wives. In this sense, I agree with your earlier statement, that love (as an emotion) is given too high a value in our society. Love, as a choice, is your responsibility as a husband, even to the degree that you be prepared to do what Christ did for humanity: to die for her sake.
On that note, since your responsibility as a Christian husband will be to be prepared to even sacrifice your life, you also need to be prepared to serve her in "lesser" areas. It most definitely is not all about you. In fact, I'd argue it is quite the opposite.
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I never disagreed with that point. Once you are married, I know I have responsibilities like sacrificing myself for her sake. I never said it was about me, but more about building a foundation of relationship based on 2 conflicting religious views seem like a bad place to start, for me and her in the long run.
A vast number of reasons, really. First and foremost being that you may not be ready for it. Being able to do something does not make it a wise decision to do so.
Maybe, maybe not. But is deciding that before you even start a wise thing to do?
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Collision (Set Two of the Fracture Block)
Quest for the Forsaken (Set Two of the Excellion Block)
Katingal: Plane of Chains
To add onto this:
look @ 1 Cor 11:11, Prov 12:4, and finally Prov 31
I wont quote the last one because you should read the entire entry. Its a union after all, and just as you should be willing to take her up. She must be willing to give her self up to you.
sigh... i remember when i was 22 and thinking the same thing... im 25 i got married last year... and i love it.
then again, if i were with say, my first girlfriend id be dreading it...