Except about the whole "guys are intimidated by girls who are better gamers than they are" thing, which is depressing but I've run into it a few too many times. But that's getting off topic.
1. If it's not a holiday, wedding anniversary, or birthday gifts don't get given. "First month of dating gifts" just suck your money. Random small tokens of esteem like flowers are reasonable, but never overdue it. "First date anniversary" depends on the relationship, but I've personally tried to ignore it.
2. Woman should pay for some of the dates or her own, and should reciprocate to about the same level of gifts. A bit fuzzy, but reciprocity should "even" or "fair."
3. Early on focus on experiential dates and keep that quality level up, gifts scale relative to deepening relationship.
Typically people marry in their wage bracket, materially there's something to it with our sense of "fairness" as people. As someone also said, learn to cook and drop the cost of your dates a bit. $400/month x 12 months=$4,800 per year you're spending on a woman. Over four years that is $18,600.
Its normal. We men always pay, one way or the other. At first you pay for sex then you get married and pay to get away from it.
I found it easier to just ignore sex altogether(early on in a relationship) and focus on what I could control on the relationship end. Problem is some men only "act nice" when they "want something," so that behavior can and does backfire when it offends some women's sense of "fairness."
As for kids, it just depends on how you raise them and their own temperament. They're not easy, but over time the less dependent they become on you and if you set the groundwork early over time they become more of an asset and less of a liability. Also, they're not for everyone and I'd encourage anyone to think long and hard before they thought about having them.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Ambition must be made to counteract ambition.
Individualities may form communities, but it is institutions alone that can create a nation.
Nothing succeeds like the appearance of success.
Here is my principle: Taxes shall be levied according to ability to pay. That is the only American principle.
I had a girlfriend a couple years back and due to my much better financial situation, I paid for all of our outings. She herself felt it was unfair so she'd regularily come to my appartment to do my laundry, clean up a little and such. She'd also drive me around town as I don't have a car.
It's all about how you share different aspects of the relationship. It doesn't mean you have to pay equal amounts of money on things. As long as both parties are happy, all is well.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
It is always easy to be tolerant and understanding...Until someone presents an opinion completely opposite to your own.
I read a few red flags in your post, OP. I think you should definitely talk to her about it soon. But like Teia said don't use technical terms, haha. Just make it easy to understand what you want from her and explain that it's kind of uncomfortable for you right now. I don't see anything wrong with that.
Some girls want the guy to pay for everything all the time. Some are willing to share the cost. I say it should be equal spending in the relationship.
(I don't like the fact that she dropped hints about buying her things)
+1. OP is right. The girl is used to guy's pampering her. Break her of it or give her a talk.
Did you know this girl very well before you started dating? Is she dating other guys, or seeing you exclusively?
Basically, are you still courting her or is this a relationship?
During Courtship - Everyone is entitled to different views on gender roles in courtship.
On the one hand, I think that the guy offering to pay for everything is kind of nice. It's not even about the money. It's about a sense of security. On the other hand... a guy and a girl are really just two people. The girl should remember this, and pay for things once in a while. It's just a good thing for a human being to do.
During a Relationship - The same stuff applies, but I think that if you're strictly adhering to 1800's gender roles in a relationship, both the guy and the girl have to be a special kind of crazy.*
I'd right the past off as a part of expected courtship, and look at everything to come as a relationship. If she doesn't start acting like a human being, then she's kind of a jerk. From there, you should try and talk to her.
--
*Edit: This isn't meant to offend anyone. We're a bunch of trading-card-obsessed adults, so we're all some kind of crazy. I've met some really nice couples where the traditional stuff just works. But they're usually older, or they have children.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
I'll be sad if people don't start calling The Chain Veil "Fleetwood Mac."
...until my money runs out. Then she pays for everything (even my personal bills).
We always behaved like the money was "communitarian". Money has never been an issue, and is great to know that you can rely on someone to help you when you are short on money.
I'm married with a joint account with both of us contributing an equal amount together, and I still pick up the tab at a restaurant despite it being a token gesture.
You know, maybe it's just a function of where I was raised, but all while I was growing up, my mom was like, "Just because you're the girl doesn't mean you should never pay for anything." But then again my views on gender roles are... non-standard at best.
OK, but it's not a universal truth. More traditional girls like more traditional gender roles even as strong, independent women. It's a matter of personal preference and how you feel on a subject.
Myself, I didn't care if I paid for everything on a date or she paid for everything or if we meticulously split everything fifty-fifty. Well, the last one is annoying because restaurant checks are always easier to have a single person pay and not split it. If you're a return customer it will net better service.
This early into the relationship, cost-sharing isn't a big deal. If it's hitting your wallet, go on less expensive dates. Dinner and a movie shouldn't cost you more than $60 (even with astronomical ticket prices). Look into where you are going to eat if you are paying, what? $40-60 a meal. That's way too much. Find a favorite cheap chain restaurant for regular dinners, and save nicer restaurants for bigger occasions.
If in a few months she still never offers to pay for anything, talk to her about it. I always paid for everything when my girlfriend's expenses were wrapped up in school (even now with Medical School), but she worked 2-3 jobs just to pay for school, and would pay for what she could when she had the chance. If your girlfriend really is cash strapped, that'd be one thing, but if she still manages to buy herself whatever, then it's an issue.
Here's a tip though: First few dates, if the girl never offers it's usually because she likes you. Offering to pay for herself can be a bad sign if you didn't agree to it beforehand (but not always). Once you are officially boyfriend and girlfriend, that changes. If you are with the kind of person who always expects, but never gives, you may want to reconsider your relationship (It actually has very little to do with gender roles, as this is a principle that applies to all relationships). Does she always tell you about what she wants, or hints at gifts, but never gives you anything or asks what you want? Consciously or not, that kind of person wants to be taken care of, not be your partner, and that does not make for a successful relationship. Many people mistake being selfish as a female gender role in a relationship, and that simply isn't true. Women may have contributed differently to relationships in the past, but the best relationships have always been between partners, regardless of era. If you become the caretaker, you are setting yourself up for dissapointment and heartbreak in the future.
Go on free dates. Theres a lot of ideas to sift through on the internet, also it seems more fun to do more than eat out and watch movies in theaters. Besides its harder to Cuddle and whatnot in public places lol (public places usually coating money to be there).
I wouldn't about it right now. if she is expecting a bunch of gifts then that is a red flag.
I would cut back on what you do. either go out to eat or go to a movie.
i wouldn't be eating at fancy places either. once in a while is ok but not every time.
if she is expect this type of stuff then i would say eh there are going to be problems.
you could also do stuff that doesn't cost money. taking a walk in the park is free except for the gas.
make a picnic lunch or something.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Thanks to Epic Graphics the best around. Thanks to Nex3 for the avatar visit ye old sig and avatar forum
Except about the whole "guys are intimidated by girls who are better gamers than they are" thing, which is depressing but I've run into it a few too many times. But that's getting off topic.
I can tell you all but the most anti-social guys are not at all intimidated by girls who can beat them at video games, it's just that 90% of "good girl gamers" are 5'4'' 160 lbs girls who have never touched makeup in thier life who wear the same hoodie everyday and read manga in public, and most gamers who are reasonably decent looking can do much better. For example every girl I see at PTQs are like that, but the random bad ones are not. It's not that they can beat me at magic COD or SSB it's the fact that they care about that rather than thier appearence (a girl's most important trait).
On-topic, at 1 month it's not too terribly abnormal, but there were a lot of red flags in your OP, if after another month she's the same way talk to her, she may genuinely not know what she's doing as a lot of decent looking girls (the way you described her personality sounds like she's decent looking) litterally have no clue that they are hurting your budget, or she may be using you as a meal ticket as a lot of girls do, if she breaks up with you, you were a meal ticket, if not then you can continue dating.
I'm not sure what's so wrong about reading manga in public (have to do something on the bus) or not wearing makeup (some of us have chemical allergies). That height/weight isn't even that bad (sure it's overweight, but it's hardly unhealthy; it's a BMI of about 27). The problem is people who think girls should focus on appearance above all else—why shouldn't guys put any less effort into theirs? Really, your entire post comes across as terribly shallow and condescending.
I'm not sure what's so wrong about reading manga in public (have to do something on the bus) or not wearing makeup (some of us have chemical allergies). That height/weight isn't even that bad (sure it's overweight, but it's hardly unhealthy; it's a BMI of about 27). The problem is people who think girls should focus on appearance above all else—why shouldn't guys put any less effort into theirs? Really, your entire post comes across as terribly shallow and condescending.
First of all the real world is shallow, that's how it is. Reading manga in public is something you don't do if you care what people think, I read a lot of manga, I just started kimi no iru machi (which I would reccomend if you've never read it), but I would never read it in public just because it's akward to explain to a friend who walks by what I'm doing. Makeup is important to a girl's appearence, I'm not talking scene girl level makeup, but not wearing any says more or less "I don't care what I look like". 5'4'' 160 is not fat, but it is hardly skinny, it's ussually chubby, a healthy weight at 5'4'' is 100-120, 130 if they lift.
People who think girls should put effort into thier appearence are right, when most guys see a girl for the first time they notice appearence, that is the biggest factor simply because it's the first thing and a lot (most) guys have a minimum looks they would go out with (people at my local game shop came to the consensus of around a 6 average sober).
I never said guys don't need to put effort into thier appearence, I, myself spend between 5 and 10 hours a week on my appearence (20 if you count posting on lifting forums), a girl should AT LEAST be spending that kind.
I don't mind you, but you sound like you got mad because I described you perfectly. I'll be the first to admit I'm conceded and shallow, but most of what I say is how people think. I'm gonna be completely frank, your social views are completely backward and definately come from a girl with aspergers (you said you had it in another thread), you more than likely do not know as much about social situations as me.
Simply put the only people who would not date a girl who can beat them at video games are 2 types, socially inept kids who actually feel emasculated when they lose to a girl, and guys who don't want to date below a 6 seeing as the vast majority of girls who are good at video games care nothing for thier own appearence.
TDLR; I like you and respect you as a fellow anime fan, however please stop getting a big head with your ussually incorrect advice, the simple fact is the world is a shallow place, and 95% of guys care about looks, the other 5% are either desperate or will have sex with litterally anyone.
Maybe I'm just the exception rather than the rule but I tend to overlook looks for things that actually matter, such as compatible views on important topics and their personality. While some care in appearance is important it certainly does not matter half as much as you're implying, Linvala.
Here's a pretty easy solution, think outside the box so you don't have to spend $100 dollars to go out and do things every week. If you guys can't figure out things to do together that don't always cost money maybe you're not a good match.
In regards to linvala, it sounds like you are pretty young. Being shallow is widespread and 'natural', but as people grow older they realize other things are much more important than appearance, and that beauty is in the eye of the beholder, even if it's more natural and easy to be attracted to standard metrics of beauty. Your perspective is still pretty limited, but until people spend some more time on this planet and move through the stages of life, it's hard for most people to see otherwise.
Maybe I'm just the exception rather than the rule but I tend to overlook looks for things that actually matter, such as compatible views on important topics and their personality. While some care in appearance is important it certainly does not matter half as much as you're implying, Linvala.
I do forget far too often that this is a magic forum and magic players and other gamers tend to be the exception. Or rather they claim to be, they actually do care they just either give up or settle.
I do forget far too often that this is a magic forum and magic players and other gamers tend to be the exception. Or rather they claim to be, they actually do care they just either give up or settle.
Truly, not everyone perceives and thinks of the world, people, and relationships like you. I know you'd like to justify your shallowness by thinking everyone is the same way, but that's not the case.
When my wife, and I went out on our first date... she paid for it. I told her I didn't have any money, and she used her credit card to cover our lunch. If the girl really wants to be with you, she'll realize this is the 21st century, not some 50's or 60's movie. The stereotypical gender roles are starting to blur with some women becoming just as successful as any other guy. I haven't read too many of anyone else's post, but you need to be stern with the girl. That will show her who's boss.
I don't think the OP's situation is too bad if they've only been dating a month. If the girl doesn't at least offer to pay within the first 3 months, then I'd consider it a bad thing.
And just because her ex-boyfriends spoiled her with gifts doesn't mean she's to blame. I'd give her the benefit of the doubt and assume those guys were just being generous. If she starts asking for gifts, then you should be concerned.
Just relax and enjoy yourself. If you are concerned about money, maybe start going to cheaper restaurants/on cheaper dates and see how that works out.
Thats no excuse.....internet is his friend.
You realize I was being facetious, right?
Except about the whole "guys are intimidated by girls who are better gamers than they are" thing, which is depressing but I've run into it a few too many times. But that's getting off topic.
Just because you can find the directions for building a nuclear bomb on the internet...Lol.
Being a decent cook takes a lot of practice or a natural talent. Mostly practice.
▲
▲ ▲
Again, this made me laugh. But there's some validity to this. Cooking is pretty difficult if you don't have enough practice with it.
All the ladies in Australia love to go to Maccas and I just get them happy meals.
Happy meal: $4:80
Unprotected sex: Free
Catching a horrible STD from your seedy date? Priceless
Grand total: $4:80
LOL
1. If it's not a holiday, wedding anniversary, or birthday gifts don't get given. "First month of dating gifts" just suck your money. Random small tokens of esteem like flowers are reasonable, but never overdue it. "First date anniversary" depends on the relationship, but I've personally tried to ignore it.
2. Woman should pay for some of the dates or her own, and should reciprocate to about the same level of gifts. A bit fuzzy, but reciprocity should "even" or "fair."
3. Early on focus on experiential dates and keep that quality level up, gifts scale relative to deepening relationship.
Typically people marry in their wage bracket, materially there's something to it with our sense of "fairness" as people. As someone also said, learn to cook and drop the cost of your dates a bit. $400/month x 12 months=$4,800 per year you're spending on a woman. Over four years that is $18,600.
I found it easier to just ignore sex altogether(early on in a relationship) and focus on what I could control on the relationship end. Problem is some men only "act nice" when they "want something," so that behavior can and does backfire when it offends some women's sense of "fairness."
As for kids, it just depends on how you raise them and their own temperament. They're not easy, but over time the less dependent they become on you and if you set the groundwork early over time they become more of an asset and less of a liability. Also, they're not for everyone and I'd encourage anyone to think long and hard before they thought about having them.
Ambition must be made to counteract ambition.
Individualities may form communities, but it is institutions alone that can create a nation.
Nothing succeeds like the appearance of success.
Here is my principle: Taxes shall be levied according to ability to pay. That is the only American principle.
It's all about how you share different aspects of the relationship. It doesn't mean you have to pay equal amounts of money on things. As long as both parties are happy, all is well.
+1. OP is right. The girl is used to guy's pampering her. Break her of it or give her a talk.
GB [Primer][Competitive][Stax][Combo] Meren of Clan Nel Toth 95% RETIRED
UW [Primer][Competitive][Combo][Stax] Brago, King Eternal RETIRED
BR Rakdos, Lord of Riots (75%)
G Titania - 75%
W SRAM - Welcome to the cheeri0s jam 95%
U Teferi - stax 100%
R Neheb - janky mono red eggs combo 90%
B Gonti - 50% valuetown
Basically, are you still courting her or is this a relationship?
During Courtship - Everyone is entitled to different views on gender roles in courtship.
On the one hand, I think that the guy offering to pay for everything is kind of nice. It's not even about the money. It's about a sense of security. On the other hand... a guy and a girl are really just two people. The girl should remember this, and pay for things once in a while. It's just a good thing for a human being to do.
During a Relationship - The same stuff applies, but I think that if you're strictly adhering to 1800's gender roles in a relationship, both the guy and the girl have to be a special kind of crazy.*
I'd right the past off as a part of expected courtship, and look at everything to come as a relationship. If she doesn't start acting like a human being, then she's kind of a jerk. From there, you should try and talk to her.
--
*Edit: This isn't meant to offend anyone. We're a bunch of trading-card-obsessed adults, so we're all some kind of crazy. I've met some really nice couples where the traditional stuff just works. But they're usually older, or they have children.
...until my money runs out. Then she pays for everything (even my personal bills).
We always behaved like the money was "communitarian". Money has never been an issue, and is great to know that you can rely on someone to help you when you are short on money.
[Clan Flamingo]
The clan for custom card creators!
I'm married with a joint account with both of us contributing an equal amount together, and I still pick up the tab at a restaurant despite it being a token gesture.
OK, but it's not a universal truth. More traditional girls like more traditional gender roles even as strong, independent women. It's a matter of personal preference and how you feel on a subject.
Myself, I didn't care if I paid for everything on a date or she paid for everything or if we meticulously split everything fifty-fifty. Well, the last one is annoying because restaurant checks are always easier to have a single person pay and not split it. If you're a return customer it will net better service.
If in a few months she still never offers to pay for anything, talk to her about it. I always paid for everything when my girlfriend's expenses were wrapped up in school (even now with Medical School), but she worked 2-3 jobs just to pay for school, and would pay for what she could when she had the chance. If your girlfriend really is cash strapped, that'd be one thing, but if she still manages to buy herself whatever, then it's an issue.
Here's a tip though: First few dates, if the girl never offers it's usually because she likes you. Offering to pay for herself can be a bad sign if you didn't agree to it beforehand (but not always). Once you are officially boyfriend and girlfriend, that changes. If you are with the kind of person who always expects, but never gives, you may want to reconsider your relationship (It actually has very little to do with gender roles, as this is a principle that applies to all relationships). Does she always tell you about what she wants, or hints at gifts, but never gives you anything or asks what you want? Consciously or not, that kind of person wants to be taken care of, not be your partner, and that does not make for a successful relationship. Many people mistake being selfish as a female gender role in a relationship, and that simply isn't true. Women may have contributed differently to relationships in the past, but the best relationships have always been between partners, regardless of era. If you become the caretaker, you are setting yourself up for dissapointment and heartbreak in the future.
TerribleBad at Magic since 1998.A Vorthos Guide to Magic Story | Twitter | Tumblr
[Primer] Krenko | Azor | Kess | Zacama | Kumena | Sram | The Ur-Dragon | Edgar Markov | Daretti | Marath
I would cut back on what you do. either go out to eat or go to a movie.
i wouldn't be eating at fancy places either. once in a while is ok but not every time.
if she is expect this type of stuff then i would say eh there are going to be problems.
you could also do stuff that doesn't cost money. taking a walk in the park is free except for the gas.
make a picnic lunch or something.
Thanks to Epic Graphics the best around.
Thanks to Nex3 for the avatar visit ye old sig and avatar forum
I can tell you all but the most anti-social guys are not at all intimidated by girls who can beat them at video games, it's just that 90% of "good girl gamers" are 5'4'' 160 lbs girls who have never touched makeup in thier life who wear the same hoodie everyday and read manga in public, and most gamers who are reasonably decent looking can do much better. For example every girl I see at PTQs are like that, but the random bad ones are not. It's not that they can beat me at magic COD or SSB it's the fact that they care about that rather than thier appearence (a girl's most important trait).
On-topic, at 1 month it's not too terribly abnormal, but there were a lot of red flags in your OP, if after another month she's the same way talk to her, she may genuinely not know what she's doing as a lot of decent looking girls (the way you described her personality sounds like she's decent looking) litterally have no clue that they are hurting your budget, or she may be using you as a meal ticket as a lot of girls do, if she breaks up with you, you were a meal ticket, if not then you can continue dating.
First of all the real world is shallow, that's how it is. Reading manga in public is something you don't do if you care what people think, I read a lot of manga, I just started kimi no iru machi (which I would reccomend if you've never read it), but I would never read it in public just because it's akward to explain to a friend who walks by what I'm doing. Makeup is important to a girl's appearence, I'm not talking scene girl level makeup, but not wearing any says more or less "I don't care what I look like". 5'4'' 160 is not fat, but it is hardly skinny, it's ussually chubby, a healthy weight at 5'4'' is 100-120, 130 if they lift.
People who think girls should put effort into thier appearence are right, when most guys see a girl for the first time they notice appearence, that is the biggest factor simply because it's the first thing and a lot (most) guys have a minimum looks they would go out with (people at my local game shop came to the consensus of around a 6 average sober).
I never said guys don't need to put effort into thier appearence, I, myself spend between 5 and 10 hours a week on my appearence (20 if you count posting on lifting forums), a girl should AT LEAST be spending that kind.
I don't mind you, but you sound like you got mad because I described you perfectly. I'll be the first to admit I'm conceded and shallow, but most of what I say is how people think. I'm gonna be completely frank, your social views are completely backward and definately come from a girl with aspergers (you said you had it in another thread), you more than likely do not know as much about social situations as me.
Simply put the only people who would not date a girl who can beat them at video games are 2 types, socially inept kids who actually feel emasculated when they lose to a girl, and guys who don't want to date below a 6 seeing as the vast majority of girls who are good at video games care nothing for thier own appearence.
TDLR; I like you and respect you as a fellow anime fan, however please stop getting a big head with your ussually incorrect advice, the simple fact is the world is a shallow place, and 95% of guys care about looks, the other 5% are either desperate or will have sex with litterally anyone.
Maybe I'm just the exception rather than the rule but I tend to overlook looks for things that actually matter, such as compatible views on important topics and their personality. While some care in appearance is important it certainly does not matter half as much as you're implying, Linvala.
▲
▲ ▲
In regards to linvala, it sounds like you are pretty young. Being shallow is widespread and 'natural', but as people grow older they realize other things are much more important than appearance, and that beauty is in the eye of the beholder, even if it's more natural and easy to be attracted to standard metrics of beauty. Your perspective is still pretty limited, but until people spend some more time on this planet and move through the stages of life, it's hard for most people to see otherwise.
I do forget far too often that this is a magic forum and magic players and other gamers tend to be the exception. Or rather they claim to be, they actually do care they just either give up or settle.
Truly, not everyone perceives and thinks of the world, people, and relationships like you. I know you'd like to justify your shallowness by thinking everyone is the same way, but that's not the case.
And just because her ex-boyfriends spoiled her with gifts doesn't mean she's to blame. I'd give her the benefit of the doubt and assume those guys were just being generous. If she starts asking for gifts, then you should be concerned.
Just relax and enjoy yourself. If you are concerned about money, maybe start going to cheaper restaurants/on cheaper dates and see how that works out.
WUB Sharuum the Hegemon
BGW Karador, Ghost Chieftain