dcartist, the problem with Kendo is that no one carries swords around anymore. So unless the OP is going to have a sword on him on a regular basis, it's just not practical. (And crap, if he has a sword on him, that's pretty much game right there regardless of his skill level with it.)
I would consider traditional Western fencing more useful anyway. Better footwork involved, rapier is lighter and better suited to unarmored combat.
dcartist, the problem with Kendo is that no one carries swords around anymore. So unless the OP is going to have a sword on him on a regular basis, it's just not practical. (And crap, if he has a sword on him, that's pretty much game right there regardless of his skill level with it.)
I would consider traditional Western fencing more useful anyway. Better footwork involved, rapier is lighter and better suited to unarmored combat.
I am thinking of "cross training" in Kendo, along the same lines as why we suggest that tennis players or boxers play soccer for their footwork, or baseball players or football players do ballet.
Kendo is a completely different kind of balance and posture and edplosiveness than any other martial art, and experiencing combat from that position and mindset of "instant kill" gives you something other styles don't give you.
As for the comparison to rapier, unlike any other martial art, kendo allows you to take a weapon and hit somebody full force, maximal power at an opponent who is trying to hit you with a stick first. This translates perfectly to a situation where you'd have to grab a weapon when you'd be fighting for your life and hit somebody with hostile intent, crippling force & maximal speed. Because of the nature of the equipment, you HIT people with that Shinai full force, whereas I think traditional European fencing is more like boxing with your balance centered, moving forward and backward, parrying, and the nature of striking with a rapier doesn't really translate to improvising and protecting yourself with a piece of rebar, a 2 x 4, or a pool cue when you're truly in fear for your life or defending yourself against multiple attackers (reduce the numbers immediately) or an armed person. Kendo you strike like lightning and learn how to hit hard enough to injure or kill.
I don't know if you've seen a lot of kendo ( a good friend of mine used to do it and I got to see it and hear it explained), but you calculate & close distance and then just explode and CLOBBER people "instant kill". Unlike certain Asian martial arts that have often claimed to have a "lethal strike" (if your opponent idiotically stands there waiting for you to hit them), kendo is the one sport where you really practice and execute true "lethal strike" over & over on life humans who are trying to do the same to you.
I don't think of it as a primary self defense martial art, and in this thread (I've specifically stated that this is for cross training) but in terms of finding something that adds something unique, I cant think of anything that gives you what kendo does.
"Instant kill" makes a lot more sense in the context of using swords than not using swords.
But the actual hits in the sport are easily hard enough to floor somebody with a non edged weapon. what would be "instant kill" with the sword become immobilizing or debilitating when you use a stick or pool cue. I don't think you have a concept of how hard those hits are. Thy wear so much padding and it still hurts.
I read in an article once that the best martial art is the one you know best.
No martial art is better than another martial art unless the fighters are at exactly equal skill level.
Really, to protect yourself best, get to know a martial art enough that it flows out of your easily and you start getting reflexes for that martial art. Then learn to apply it to combat other martial arts and you'll be fine.
But in all honesty, if you learn to fight Taek Kwon Do and Boxing, you should be able to see past ANY amatuer fighter. After that, specialise in a traditional martial art to learn how to deal with knives and other surprises and you'll be pretty street safe.
Nothing beats a gun though. If they have a gun, give up. That's the safest option.
I don't think of it as a primary self defense martial art, and in this thread (I've specifically stated that this is for cross training) but in terms of finding something that adds something unique, I cant think of anything that gives you what kendo does.
I wouldn't say Kendo does things so differently other arts don't have what it does at times but, I will agree Kendo certainly brings to the table a definite uniqueness in approach. The idea of an art centered around lightning quick attacks with power behind them that always stay on center line that can change on a dime and reorient while attacking is certainly interesting.
I just have an issue with folks trying to put it forward it can stand up to the test of being a stand alone self defense art in any situation or circumstance(I've run into them before as have my instructor and it is always a frustrating quasi-discussion/argument usually ending with a passive aggressive amount of explanations through hypothetical scenarios or even sometimes hands on sparring matches with Shinai against sticks or mutiple trained opponents) but, as you stated previously, clearly for cross training it doesn't sound too bad of an idea.
For me having gone through several years of Kali stick and knife centered around a strict real life defense/offensive approach Kendo sounds like a different animal worth getting into at some point just for the sword knowledge. Especially after seeing some friendly sparring matches between Escrima versus Kendo. Though, I wouldn't mind seeing a modern combative Kali form seen sparring Kendo at some point.
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I miss Krav Maga in this list. Israeli defensive-getting-things-done-walk-away-techniques.
I enjoy it alot!
I'll always maintain that Krav Maga has some of the best gun disarms of any art in the world. I just have a problem with the rest of it or at least the form taught in the United States.
The 360 degree block against weapons is naive, the idea of grabbing clothing over body grabs is foolish in their technique, and I just cannot stand the constant striking idea they employ.
Nothing beats a gun though. If they have a gun, give up. That's the safest option.
Agreed. In a real life situation parting with your possessions is the best course of action. The problem being what happens after that step. What if your assailant wants more then your possessions?
Krav Maga definitely has some of the best answers for the disarm but, if the distance between you and your assailant or assailants exceeds the necessary distance you need for the appropriate disarm ,depending on the type of fire arm, you and your loved ones or friends are dead. A disarm is definitely suggested as a last resort unless, of course, you have complete confidence in your speed and skills like my instructor who has dealt with three different muggings involving disarming his opponent of their firearms since he moved here back in 2005.
Every Martial Art you listed is a 'Sport' Martial Art, meaning while it can be effective the rules around the competitive aspect prevent you from learning to fight for real. For example, Ju Jutsu forbids Skin Grabs.
If you want to 'Street Fight', look at Krav Maga, Nin Jutsu or Muay Thai. I'd recommend Krav Maga or Nin Jutsu though, because Muay Thai has been invaded by MMA wannabes, the plague of serious martial arts everywhere.
Every Martial Art you listed is a 'Sport' Martial Art, meaning while it can be effective the rules around the competitive aspect prevent you from learning to fight for real. For example, Ju Jutsu forbids Skin Grabs.
If you want to 'Street Fight', look at Krav Maga, Nin Jutsu or Muay Thai. I'd recommend Krav Maga or Nin Jutsu though, because Muay Thai has been invaded by MMA wannabes, the plague of serious martial arts everywhere.
Modern ninjitsu is actually very heavily based on survivalism, and not martial arts. it teaches you basic parkour and boyscout like skills, and only a little of it is actually combat based. even then, it's all JJJ anyway.
What's it like?
TKD has actually helped me a lot; I don't know where you get that from.
Professional fighter here. TKD is quite possibly the least effective martial art besides karate to use in a street fight. It's an ART. it takes years to get good at, and it's incredibly difficult to do, but it is NOT a fighting style. Korean martial arts are generally useless for fighting. Hapkido is just a terrible version of JJJ.
If you are a bigger person, I would recomend sambo, which is a russian martial art like wrestling, except it helps a lot if you are bigger and stronger than the other person. As a master in krav maga, i would never ever ever recomend krav maga unless you can learn the militarized version of it (like i did.) otherwise it's just really watered down and not very effective.
Muay thai is my personal favorite martial art (besides KM), i've been doing it for almost 6 years now. Pound for pound, it is the BEST striking martial art in the world.
it's kicks are harder, faster, and easier than TKD kicks, and the bone conditioning that you do in any decent MT gym will make your bones strong enough to deflect and/or absorb the impact. You'll learn how to take a hit, or several, and hit back just as hard at the same time. MT is VERY good to know. You'll have to use elbows and knees as well as kicks and punches, however.
BJJ is great to know, but unless you've been doing BJJ in it's own class, i honestly doubt you're more than a blue belt. I wouldn't exactly go to a TKD class to learn how to grapple.
Modern ninjitsu is actually very heavily based on survivalism, and not martial arts. it teaches you basic parkour and boyscout like skills, and only a little of it is actually combat based. even then, it's all JJJ anyway.
What? I'm talking about the Bujinkan here... what are you talking about?
Saying that the Bujinkan teaches variants of Karate and JJJ isn't accurate. It would be more accurate to say that they are based on similar traditions. Karate is an Okinawan martial art that was popularized in the 20th century and ultimately became the name people associate with all Martial Arts, regardless of the actual school. Japanese Jujutsu has so many schools its difficult to say what originated where - but we know that Aikido and Judo originate from Jujutsu.
The Bujinkan is the only known remaining Nin Jutsu school (besides the small ones that split from the Bujinkan). It is derived from the Togakure-ryu which dates back to the 12th century. It teaches nine schools of martial arts, seven were former Samurai schools and two are Ninja schools. The current Grandmaster (of all 9 schools) is Masaaki Hatsumi, who you will find is referenced in any piece doing any legitimate research on Ninja and Nin Jutsu. I have no idea what this thing you were talking about is, but it sounds like someone just slapped the Nin Jutsu name on some fancy moves to make their parkour sound cooler.
Please, do some research before stating your misconceptions as fact, it takes all of five minutes. I mentioned Nin Jutsu as one of three martial arts schools that don't focus on just one aspect of combat, aren't sports oriented and are common enough that you could reasonably find a school in your area. Like anything, you just need to avoid the ones with McDojo tendencies and look for more devoted practicioners to learn from.
Please, do some research before stating your misconceptions as fact, it takes all of five minutes. I mentioned Nin Jutsu as one of three martial arts schools that don't focus on just one aspect of combat, aren't sports oriented and are common enough that you could reasonably find a school in your area. Like anything, you just need to avoid the ones with McDojo tendencies and look for more devoted practicioners to learn from.
I just did, the entire move catalog is at it's core JJJ with some weapons techniques thrown in. It's not "historical" ninjutsu, it's... Honestly I'm not sure what to call it. I want to say it's an evolved variant of JJJ, but the moves catalog is honestly different enough to technically be called it's own martial art. Kind of like the difference between boxing and kickboxing, I guess.
I just did, the entire move catalog is at it's core JJJ with some weapons techniques thrown in. It's not "historical" ninjutsu, it's... Honestly I'm not sure what to call it. I want to say it's an evolved variant of JJJ, but the moves catalog is honestly different enough to technically be called it's own martial art. Kind of like the difference between boxing and kickboxing, I guess.
If you only care about 'move catalogs', then you miss the point of most martial arts. The philosophy of ninjutsu is different from other martial arts I've done, because every instructor I've had in ninjutsu emphasizes doing what works rather than adherence to a particular move set. The only key is maintaining your balance.
Sure, the taijutsu involved is similar, to the point where taijutsu and jujutsu are synonyms for a range of grappling techniques. Like all Japanese Martial Arts, it's derived from the same place. What works works, so a lot of things haven't changed. There are only so many ways to efficiently lock someone's joints. On a day to day basis that is what is emphasized, because that is what is most practical. I'd imagine a lot of Hatsumi's instruction is colored by his earlier martial arts experience. Most ninjutsu practitioners came from other schools and their techniques vary depending on that school. It's not a bad thing - as I said, doing what works is more important that strict adherence.
As far as being "historical"... no one trains to learn how to defeat Samurai anymore. The movements have all been adapted to represent modern threats. They go because its a great system to learn how to defend yourself in any situation, but the tradition does go back to the 12th century Togakure-ryu.
If you only care about move sets, yeah, I guess you can describe it as "Jujutsu with weapons" at the surface level because for a lot of purposes, it is (at least before black belt). But most of the schools (excepting a few bad eggs) are fun, non-competitive environments where you learn some deadly stuff.
If you only care about 'move catalogs', then you miss the point of most martial arts. The philosophy of ninjutsu is different from other martial arts I've done, because every instructor I've had in ninjutsu emphasizes doing what works rather than adherence to a particular move set. The only key is maintaining your balance.
Sure, the taijutsu involved is similar, to the point where taijutsu and jujutsu are synonyms for a range of grappling techniques. Like all Japanese Martial Arts, it's derived from the same place. What works works, so a lot of things haven't changed. There are only so many ways to efficiently lock someone's joints. On a day to day basis that is what is emphasized, because that is what is most practical. I'd imagine a lot of Hatsumi's instruction is colored by his earlier martial arts experience. Most ninjutsu practitioners came from other schools and their techniques vary depending on that school. It's not a bad thing - as I said, doing what works is more important that strict adherence.
As far as being "historical"... no one trains to learn how to defeat Samurai anymore. The movements have all been adapted to represent modern threats. They go because its a great system to learn how to defend yourself in any situation, but the tradition does go back to the 12th century Togakure-ryu.
If you only care about move sets, yeah, I guess you can describe it as "Jujutsu with weapons" at the surface level because for a lot of purposes, it is (at least before black belt). But most of the schools (excepting a few bad eggs) are fun, non-competitive environments where you learn some deadly stuff.
Quite frankly as someone who does ninjutsu, I know from reading the Bujinkan, that a lot of it is related to what is taught in my classes. I go to Sakushin Ninjutsu, In melbourne in Australia. http://www.sakushin.com.au/index.php?p=1_2
The schools of Ninjutsu are similar to the Samurai schools, however each of them has been adapted to make them more refined to suit ninjutsu. My sensei always tells me that what we're learning could be learned from Samurai martial arts, however he always goes on to show us what ninjutsu has done to tweak it to make it more effecient. In addition there are also additional Ninjutsu schools, which aren't taught in Samurai martial arts.
One lesson one of my friends had to leave the Dojo cause he was going to Queensland for University. Sensei told him that any dojo that didn't do the San-chin Kata, or try to make some people seem better than others or make you do thousands of repetitions of punches before they teach you anything significant is a dodgy dojo. Martial arts are about improving everyone and yourself. Not for creating devision between people. In addition, dojos that teach you Parkour are not teaching you proper ninjutsu.
Modern Ninjutsu is still Ninjutsu. Anything else that might seem like "Modern Ninjutsu" is not ninjutsu, but really just some fun party trick with a little self defence thrown in. However, if thats fun and makes you feel good, there is no reason to condone it. But regardless, its not Ninjutsu.
If you are looking into actually getting into MMA and/or just improving your all around attributes in self-defense and fighting, I would say go with wrestling. Seriously just look at all the top UFC fighters...or any other MMA league... and you'll see a large majority of them have very prolific wrestling careers (at least those from the U.S.). I wrestled 4 years in high school and it is some serious strength and endurance training on top of just all around honing of skills from reflexes and instantaneous decision making to technique and strategy.
Also, my cousin's husband is the #1 (maybe #2) ranked fighter in SC...not sure what league/affiliation, but I know that he has had a title and I asked him about getting into MMA and what he would suggest to focus on...his answer was wrestling without any hesitation.
I don't care what anyone says, it may not be a martial arts but it sure as hell is a fighting style/sport.
"Instant kill" makes a lot more sense in the context of using swords than not using swords.
then may I suggest Iaijutsu as an alternative to Kendo?
Kendo is traditionally the sport derived from the practice of using a Katana for a long term combat with a single opponent. Unfortunately due to having been relegated primarily to the role of a sport it is no longer really useful to the purpose of being a useful fighting style.
On the other hand, Iaijutsu and by proxy it's sister Iaido are both the traditional descendents of the Martial Art that was derived in Ancient Japan by the Samurai for the purpose of resolving conflict between two individual Samurai. This method of resolving conflict can also be known as the "Quick Release" or "Quick Draw" (As ironic as that may sound in a world that has seen the days of the Wild West come and go). The idea being simply this, two Samurai would stand opposite of each other, and they would each draw their Katana or Wakizashi at deadly speeds with the intent to kill the other. The one who remained standing was the victor.
Granted lethal Iaido is rarely practiced in this day and age. However Iaijutsu is still a viable martial art (though it is a rare one) that often still adheres to many of the codes of Bushido in keeping with traditions of the Samurai. Additionally while Iaijutsu and Iaido traditionally deal primarily with the process of drawing the sword from the scabbard, many of the things learned in Iaijutsu and Iaido can be applied to street fighting, such as timing, distance from an opponent, striking speed, control over ones inertial forces, and other similar things.
Every Martial Art you listed is a 'Sport' Martial Art, meaning while it can be effective the rules around the competitive aspect prevent you from learning to fight for real. For example, Ju Jutsu forbids Skin Grabs.
If you want to 'Street Fight', look at Krav Maga, Nin Jutsu or Muay Thai. I'd recommend Krav Maga or Nin Jutsu though, because Muay Thai has been invaded by MMA wannabes, the plague of serious martial arts everywhere.
Basically what you're saying is this:
"Well you train sport fighting so its not effective if you want to fight for real"
Which is completely asinine, I'd put my money on a trained fighter vs. a "street" fighter any day of the week.
"Well you train sport fighting so its not effective if you want to fight for real"
Which is completely asinine, I'd put my money on a trained fighter vs. a "street" fighter any day of the week.
That depends, is the street fighter armed with a gun? Is the trained fighter trained in avoiding bullets? There are a lot of extenuating circumstances that determine who would actually win in a street fight (Caged Fights don't really count in this case as they are controlled environments where neither combatant really has an overt advantage over the other). Simply put if a street fighter had some means to take advantage of his environment or otherwise modify the conditions of the fight, I am 100% inclined to believe the street fighter would do so and that the trained fighter would be very unlikely to win that fight unless extremely well trained and also extremely lucky.
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You know DalkonCledwin, I can't tell if you're being serious or sarcastic. I'm going to assume you're being serious and actually address your arguments:
That depends, is the street fighter armed with a gun? Is the trained fighter trained in avoiding bullets?
First, if the street fighter has a gun - it's not a fight then is it?
Secondly, what the hell do you mean "is the trained fighter trained in avoiding bullets?" You think there's a class somewhere where people train in avoiding bullets?
Do you think real life is like the movies and people study gun kata?
The subject at hand doesn't include people using grenade launchers, nukes, light sabers, pistols, katanas, knives, lasers, or any other stupid weapon you might try to include in this conversation.
I am only addressing hand to hand combat here and nothing else.
The reason your argument here is silly is because I can turn that scenario back at you and say something just as silly and go
"Well a trained fighter can carry around a pulse rifle and so he can beat a street fighter any time"
There are a lot of extenuating circumstances that determine who would actually win in a street fight
Yeah...
(Caged Fights don't really count in this case as they are controlled environments where neither combatant really has an overt advantage over the other).
Why did you even write this? I'm not addressing caged fights because the subject is about STREET fighting and not Caged fighting.
Simply put if a street fighter had some means to take advantage of his environment or otherwise modify the conditions of the fight, I am 100% inclined to believe the street fighter would do so and that the trained fighter would be very unlikely to win that fight unless extremely well trained and also extremely lucky.
Yeah, because if you have both a trained fighter and a street fighter in the same environment, the street fighter will look for a weapon, while the trained fighter will stand there picking his nose and drooling. This will give the street fighter all the time in the world to meticulously choose his weapon.
Have you ever been in or even seen a street fight?
If you only care about 'move catalogs', then you miss the point of most martial arts. The philosophy of ninjutsu is different from other martial arts I've done, because every instructor I've had in ninjutsu emphasizes doing what works rather than adherence to a particular move set. The only key is maintaining your balance.
Sure, the taijutsu involved is similar, to the point where taijutsu and jujutsu are synonyms for a range of grappling techniques. Like all Japanese Martial Arts, it's derived from the same place. What works works, so a lot of things haven't changed. There are only so many ways to efficiently lock someone's joints. On a day to day basis that is what is emphasized, because that is what is most practical. I'd imagine a lot of Hatsumi's instruction is colored by his earlier martial arts experience. Most ninjutsu practitioners came from other schools and their techniques vary depending on that school. It's not a bad thing - as I said, doing what works is more important that strict adherence.
As far as being "historical"... no one trains to learn how to defeat Samurai anymore. The movements have all been adapted to represent modern threats. They go because its a great system to learn how to defend yourself in any situation, but the tradition does go back to the 12th century Togakure-ryu.
If you only care about move sets, yeah, I guess you can describe it as "Jujutsu with weapons" at the surface level because for a lot of purposes, it is (at least before black belt). But most of the schools (excepting a few bad eggs) are fun, non-competitive environments where you learn some deadly stuff.
That was VERY well said, and I think both of us have said everything we've needed to say with minimal disagreements at this point.
HOWEVER, one last thing I'd like to add, is that the philosophy of a martial art is only important to students of that particular style. If I'm not going to be studying a martial art, I'd rather know it's moves catalog rather than it's philosophy, in case I'm ever in a situation where I have to defend myself against someone of said style. Would you agree?
then may I suggest Iaijutsu as an alternative to Kendo?
Does this involve having a sword in one's hand?
If so, that's not an improvement over kendo. Like, don't get me wrong, I respect sword arts, but when does anyone carry around a sword in this day and age?
I mean if you're in an environment where people do indeed carry around Japanese swords and wear no armor and actually train in these arts, sure. But, at least where I live, what you'll want is something like the Filipino arts which will focus on knives and improvised weapons.
What about Savate? Its a martial art that evolved solely from street fighting.
Savate has some good kicks.
The thing about all of these arts is what you'll want is an eclectic style that takes what each art does well and combines them, and allows you to flow smoothly between arts. This is why I advocate Concepts Jeet Kune Do as the best art that the OP can learn at his current stage, it takes exactly this approach and focuses on honing his attributes.
"Well you train sport fighting so its not effective if you want to fight for real"
Which is completely asinine
No. Entirely the opposite is true.
All sports fights have rules. They have to. They're designed to keep people as evenly fought as possible and to not do any permanent damage to one another. None of these apply in a real fight. You're not fighting in a square/octagon wearing shorts and gloves with one guy of a similar weight category and completely unarmed with a referee to police things and tell you what you can and can't do.
You're facing an entirely different situation, one where everything is wide open and that big list of things you're not allowed to do in MMA no longer exists. People throw eye gouges in real life. People elbow strike in real life. People attack the groin in real life. People will pick up whatever's available to use as weapons in real life. People headbutt in real life. People will bite in real life, and I don't care how great your triangle choke is, if someone is biting your femoral artery then you will let go.
Not that these arts are useless (well, depends on the art. Again, if you want to learn TKD/Karate, only learn the side kick and nothing else, any more and you'll risk picking up the bad habits it has, and there are plenty), but it's an entirely different ballgame and one that one is not readily prepared for.
You know DalkonCledwin, I can't tell if you're being serious or sarcastic. I'm going to assume you're being serious and actually address your arguments:
Except you didn't. You ridiculed the first two sentences of his post and then just dismissed everything else.
There are a lot of extenuating circumstances that determine who would actually win in a street fight (Caged Fights don't really count in this case as they are controlled environments where neither combatant really has an overt advantage over the other). Simply put if a street fighter had some means to take advantage of his environment or otherwise modify the conditions of the fight, I am 100% inclined to believe the street fighter would do so and that the trained fighter would be very unlikely to win that fight unless extremely well trained and also extremely lucky.
Which is valid.
For instance, you say here:
knives
or any other stupid weapon you might try to include in this conversation.
A knife is a stupid weapon? You regard the likelihood of someone carrying around a knife in real life to be on the level of someone carrying around a grenade launcher?
I am only addressing hand to hand combat here and nothing else.
If this is serious, if two people are actually going at each other for real, what makes you think that it's going to stay hand to hand? Do you think in a real life setting where there's any number of things to pick up and throw or use as a weapon, two people who are actually going to keep things on an even playing field? No, you're going to grab whatever you can to use as a weapon. You're going to be using your surroundings. If you're unarmed, you're going to be using teeth and elbows.
Yeah, because if you have both a trained fighter and a street fighter in the same environment, the street fighter will look for a weapon, while the trained fighter will stand there picking his nose and drooling. This will give the street fighter all the time in the world to meticulously choose his weapon.
Have you ever been in or even seen a street fight?
from my experiences, any highly experienced martial artist will own in a street fight, regardless of discipline...
but there are certainly some which lend themselves better to an unstructured brawl than others.
1) floor-fighting and most throw/grapple martial arts are a no-no..... incredible in 1v1 against an untrained or unexpectant person.... completely useless against more than one person.
2) martial arts that are good at maintaining correct distance from your opponent, and using space effectively are the ones to go for. street fighters and brawlers tend to have poor awareness in this regard and just dance around a bit, throwing punches when they feel there is an opening. distance and space are weapons, just as much as your own body.
3) from having studied many martial arts, i have noticed that my hand-to-hand technique improved massively when i started practicing Kendo. it may not be practically relevent, but in terms of skill, power, speed and footwork, Kendo is huge, when combined with non-weapon martial arts.
important: i've studied martial arts for 12 years. and there's some truth that needs to be stated.
- you can never know that you'll win a fight. there is so much uncertainty and potential for other people to get involved in a brawl.
- cockiness is a bad trait to have and can get you in trouble.
- regarding knives: never, EVER fight someone who has a knife. despite what people tell you or what you learn, there is too much room for error and knives are too deadly to reliably or consistently fight against. ALWAYS run or attempt to escape from a knife fight.
and lastly:
- learning one single martial art really well is INFINITELY BETTER than learning many different styles incompletely. trust me on this.
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That was VERY well said, and I think both of us have said everything we've needed to say with minimal disagreements at this point.
HOWEVER, one last thing I'd like to add, is that the philosophy of a martial art is only important to students of that particular style. If I'm not going to be studying a martial art, I'd rather know it's moves catalog rather than it's philosophy, in case I'm ever in a situation where I have to defend myself against someone of said style. Would you agree?
Hmm. I think I both agree and disagree. From a combat sport perspective, I absolutely agree. There are only so many ways a strike can come at you, and knowing how a style throws those strikes can be helpful. But it can also be blinding. For instance, I wouldn't hesitate to spit in the face of a more skilled opponent. I would eye-gouge, I would grab and twist that fleshy part of your neck between your throat and your carotid. I would do everything in the list of banned activities from MMA. The Bujinkan in particular spends a lot of time training you in kata... and then breaking you of anything routine and training you to respond differently to the same attack every time.
I think it's more important to understand how someone will move and think over what 'move' they do. Does that make sense? It doesn't matter to me if you are going in for a grab, punch, kick, elbow or knee. All that matters to me is where you are sending your body and what your attitude is, and how I should navigate around that. Are you an aggressive fighter? Do you want to get in close or keep me at arm's reach? Knowing styles would help there, but more than likely anyone I would fight wouldn't be a skilled martial artist, so reading body language and being able to keep track of space is more important to me.
If so, that's not an improvement over kendo. Like, don't get me wrong, I respect sword arts, but when does anyone carry around a sword in this day and age?
I mean if you're in an environment where people do indeed carry around Japanese swords and wear no armor and actually train in these arts, sure. But, at least where I live, what you'll want is something like the Filipino arts which will focus on knives and improvised weapons.
And I think you miss the point of weapons training. As I said above, it's not about the 'move' or in this case the weapon, but how someone moves their body when attacking. The movements involved in kenjutsu or bojutsu can be applied to any weapon (most likely a stick, a pipe, your belt, etc). The weapon is irrelevant, its about how you move your body. Not being trained in how to apply those movements to improvised weapons is a problem. Personally, I always imagine I'm fighting with a pen or my keys, since that is what I'll most likely have on me and at the ready. If someone jumps me and I have a pen... god help them, they're getting a Jay13x home tracheotomy. I told my fiance to always carry her keys like claws between her fingers when she is walking to her car alone. She never really took me seriously until one of her med school lectures was talking about how easily soft tissue could be damaged... by pens and keys.
Although if you want to learn how to knife fight, you won't find any better than the Filipino Martial Arts... the people who invented the balisong are awesome. I learned a little, but was never very good at it. The Filipino Martial Arts are derived from fighting on small boats and in tight quarters, so knife fighting and balance was important.
In any case, unless I had nowhere to run... there is no way I'm getting into a knife fight. If your opponent is in any way skilled, you are going to get cut, no exceptions. I'd rather use the secret ninja 'run the hell away' technique.
*Blinks* You criticize sport martial arts and list Muay Thai?
I'm not criticizing sports martial arts, I'm sorry if it comes off that way. I have a lot of respect for them, and I've no doubt that most of their practicioners could kick my butt even if I was fighting dirty. I added Muay Thai over other sports martial arts because their style is particularly brutal.
Agreed with everything purklefluff wrote, and most of the points of emphasis.
I would like to add though, that in general, you should not be fighting anybody 1 on 1 weaponless, no sucker punches starting it and no weapons on hand, and 99% of Fights that fit that category could have best been resolved by walking or running away.
Fights that fit the "no weapons, fair start, no help, clear space" category do sound like sport, and more accurately: a DUEL.
And the only times you can really count on it staying a "duel" with no follow up is when everybody knows each other already and shouldn't be fighting anyway over some girl or respect or some shut.
With strangers, whoever loses just comes back with a damn gun, or somebody pulls a knife. Toughest Korean guy I ever knew took a knife to the ribs from a tiny Vietnamese dude and that was early 90s. Brother of biggest scariest best fighting korean i ever knew
took a double tap to the back of his head in his own apartment.
There's a lot of ☺☺☺☺☺☺☺s out there with a chip on their shoulder and nothing to lose. They are losers and riff raff. Learn to walk away. Situations as an adult where you absolutely have to fight in your life, 1 on 1 weaponless "fair", should average far less than once per lifetime.
I'm sure most of the people here are not like this, but I swear almost every street fight, yard fight, DMV fight, & bar fight I've ever seen, could have been avoided, and it's because at least one party is intoxicated or high.
We should really be asking:
(1) which martial art truly encourages you to walk away from confrontation and avoid fighting at the cost of even pride?
(2) which martial art continues to function well when you are hammered and your reflexes,timing, & balance aren't at baseline.
(3) what martial art works best against drunk people?
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I would consider traditional Western fencing more useful anyway. Better footwork involved, rapier is lighter and better suited to unarmored combat.
Kendo is a completely different kind of balance and posture and edplosiveness than any other martial art, and experiencing combat from that position and mindset of "instant kill" gives you something other styles don't give you.
As for the comparison to rapier, unlike any other martial art, kendo allows you to take a weapon and hit somebody full force, maximal power at an opponent who is trying to hit you with a stick first. This translates perfectly to a situation where you'd have to grab a weapon when you'd be fighting for your life and hit somebody with hostile intent, crippling force & maximal speed. Because of the nature of the equipment, you HIT people with that Shinai full force, whereas I think traditional European fencing is more like boxing with your balance centered, moving forward and backward, parrying, and the nature of striking with a rapier doesn't really translate to improvising and protecting yourself with a piece of rebar, a 2 x 4, or a pool cue when you're truly in fear for your life or defending yourself against multiple attackers (reduce the numbers immediately) or an armed person. Kendo you strike like lightning and learn how to hit hard enough to injure or kill.
I don't know if you've seen a lot of kendo ( a good friend of mine used to do it and I got to see it and hear it explained), but you calculate & close distance and then just explode and CLOBBER people "instant kill". Unlike certain Asian martial arts that have often claimed to have a "lethal strike" (if your opponent idiotically stands there waiting for you to hit them), kendo is the one sport where you really practice and execute true "lethal strike" over & over on life humans who are trying to do the same to you.
I don't think of it as a primary self defense martial art, and in this thread (I've specifically stated that this is for cross training) but in terms of finding something that adds something unique, I cant think of anything that gives you what kendo does.
Because you have a sword in your hand.
"Instant kill" makes a lot more sense in the context of using swords than not using swords.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zqm2m9Igii0&feature=youtube_gdata_player
Oh well, disagree.
Bottom line is at least you get to hit people really hard with a stick, so it's got that going for it.
No martial art is better than another martial art unless the fighters are at exactly equal skill level.
Really, to protect yourself best, get to know a martial art enough that it flows out of your easily and you start getting reflexes for that martial art. Then learn to apply it to combat other martial arts and you'll be fine.
But in all honesty, if you learn to fight Taek Kwon Do and Boxing, you should be able to see past ANY amatuer fighter. After that, specialise in a traditional martial art to learn how to deal with knives and other surprises and you'll be pretty street safe.
Nothing beats a gun though. If they have a gun, give up. That's the safest option.
Pretty much sums up why I like green so much
On the internet, everywhere is Soviet Russia[/QUOTE]
I wouldn't say Kendo does things so differently other arts don't have what it does at times but, I will agree Kendo certainly brings to the table a definite uniqueness in approach. The idea of an art centered around lightning quick attacks with power behind them that always stay on center line that can change on a dime and reorient while attacking is certainly interesting.
I just have an issue with folks trying to put it forward it can stand up to the test of being a stand alone self defense art in any situation or circumstance(I've run into them before as have my instructor and it is always a frustrating quasi-discussion/argument usually ending with a passive aggressive amount of explanations through hypothetical scenarios or even sometimes hands on sparring matches with Shinai against sticks or mutiple trained opponents) but, as you stated previously, clearly for cross training it doesn't sound too bad of an idea.
For me having gone through several years of Kali stick and knife centered around a strict real life defense/offensive approach Kendo sounds like a different animal worth getting into at some point just for the sword knowledge. Especially after seeing some friendly sparring matches between Escrima versus Kendo. Though, I wouldn't mind seeing a modern combative Kali form seen sparring Kendo at some point.
I'll always maintain that Krav Maga has some of the best gun disarms of any art in the world. I just have a problem with the rest of it or at least the form taught in the United States.
The 360 degree block against weapons is naive, the idea of grabbing clothing over body grabs is foolish in their technique, and I just cannot stand the constant striking idea they employ.
Agreed. In a real life situation parting with your possessions is the best course of action. The problem being what happens after that step. What if your assailant wants more then your possessions?
Krav Maga definitely has some of the best answers for the disarm but, if the distance between you and your assailant or assailants exceeds the necessary distance you need for the appropriate disarm ,depending on the type of fire arm, you and your loved ones or friends are dead. A disarm is definitely suggested as a last resort unless, of course, you have complete confidence in your speed and skills like my instructor who has dealt with three different muggings involving disarming his opponent of their firearms since he moved here back in 2005.
If you want to 'Street Fight', look at Krav Maga, Nin Jutsu or Muay Thai. I'd recommend Krav Maga or Nin Jutsu though, because Muay Thai has been invaded by MMA wannabes, the plague of serious martial arts everywhere.
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Modern ninjitsu is actually very heavily based on survivalism, and not martial arts. it teaches you basic parkour and boyscout like skills, and only a little of it is actually combat based. even then, it's all JJJ anyway.
Professional fighter here. TKD is quite possibly the least effective martial art besides karate to use in a street fight. It's an ART. it takes years to get good at, and it's incredibly difficult to do, but it is NOT a fighting style. Korean martial arts are generally useless for fighting. Hapkido is just a terrible version of JJJ.
If you are a bigger person, I would recomend sambo, which is a russian martial art like wrestling, except it helps a lot if you are bigger and stronger than the other person. As a master in krav maga, i would never ever ever recomend krav maga unless you can learn the militarized version of it (like i did.) otherwise it's just really watered down and not very effective.
Muay thai is my personal favorite martial art (besides KM), i've been doing it for almost 6 years now. Pound for pound, it is the BEST striking martial art in the world.
it's kicks are harder, faster, and easier than TKD kicks, and the bone conditioning that you do in any decent MT gym will make your bones strong enough to deflect and/or absorb the impact. You'll learn how to take a hit, or several, and hit back just as hard at the same time. MT is VERY good to know. You'll have to use elbows and knees as well as kicks and punches, however.
BJJ is great to know, but unless you've been doing BJJ in it's own class, i honestly doubt you're more than a blue belt. I wouldn't exactly go to a TKD class to learn how to grapple.
What? I'm talking about the Bujinkan here... what are you talking about?
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you said ninjutsu. that's what i was talking about. bujinkan is like a school in japan that teaches a bunch of variants of karate and JJJ...
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bujinkan
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ninjutsu
Saying that the Bujinkan teaches variants of Karate and JJJ isn't accurate. It would be more accurate to say that they are based on similar traditions. Karate is an Okinawan martial art that was popularized in the 20th century and ultimately became the name people associate with all Martial Arts, regardless of the actual school. Japanese Jujutsu has so many schools its difficult to say what originated where - but we know that Aikido and Judo originate from Jujutsu.
The Bujinkan is the only known remaining Nin Jutsu school (besides the small ones that split from the Bujinkan). It is derived from the Togakure-ryu which dates back to the 12th century. It teaches nine schools of martial arts, seven were former Samurai schools and two are Ninja schools. The current Grandmaster (of all 9 schools) is Masaaki Hatsumi, who you will find is referenced in any piece doing any legitimate research on Ninja and Nin Jutsu. I have no idea what this thing you were talking about is, but it sounds like someone just slapped the Nin Jutsu name on some fancy moves to make their parkour sound cooler.
Please, do some research before stating your misconceptions as fact, it takes all of five minutes. I mentioned Nin Jutsu as one of three martial arts schools that don't focus on just one aspect of combat, aren't sports oriented and are common enough that you could reasonably find a school in your area. Like anything, you just need to avoid the ones with McDojo tendencies and look for more devoted practicioners to learn from.
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I just did, the entire move catalog is at it's core JJJ with some weapons techniques thrown in. It's not "historical" ninjutsu, it's... Honestly I'm not sure what to call it. I want to say it's an evolved variant of JJJ, but the moves catalog is honestly different enough to technically be called it's own martial art. Kind of like the difference between boxing and kickboxing, I guess.
If you only care about 'move catalogs', then you miss the point of most martial arts. The philosophy of ninjutsu is different from other martial arts I've done, because every instructor I've had in ninjutsu emphasizes doing what works rather than adherence to a particular move set. The only key is maintaining your balance.
Sure, the taijutsu involved is similar, to the point where taijutsu and jujutsu are synonyms for a range of grappling techniques. Like all Japanese Martial Arts, it's derived from the same place. What works works, so a lot of things haven't changed. There are only so many ways to efficiently lock someone's joints. On a day to day basis that is what is emphasized, because that is what is most practical. I'd imagine a lot of Hatsumi's instruction is colored by his earlier martial arts experience. Most ninjutsu practitioners came from other schools and their techniques vary depending on that school. It's not a bad thing - as I said, doing what works is more important that strict adherence.
As far as being "historical"... no one trains to learn how to defeat Samurai anymore. The movements have all been adapted to represent modern threats. They go because its a great system to learn how to defend yourself in any situation, but the tradition does go back to the 12th century Togakure-ryu.
If you only care about move sets, yeah, I guess you can describe it as "Jujutsu with weapons" at the surface level because for a lot of purposes, it is (at least before black belt). But most of the schools (excepting a few bad eggs) are fun, non-competitive environments where you learn some deadly stuff.
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Quite frankly as someone who does ninjutsu, I know from reading the Bujinkan, that a lot of it is related to what is taught in my classes. I go to Sakushin Ninjutsu, In melbourne in Australia.
http://www.sakushin.com.au/index.php?p=1_2
The schools of Ninjutsu are similar to the Samurai schools, however each of them has been adapted to make them more refined to suit ninjutsu. My sensei always tells me that what we're learning could be learned from Samurai martial arts, however he always goes on to show us what ninjutsu has done to tweak it to make it more effecient. In addition there are also additional Ninjutsu schools, which aren't taught in Samurai martial arts.
One lesson one of my friends had to leave the Dojo cause he was going to Queensland for University. Sensei told him that any dojo that didn't do the San-chin Kata, or try to make some people seem better than others or make you do thousands of repetitions of punches before they teach you anything significant is a dodgy dojo. Martial arts are about improving everyone and yourself. Not for creating devision between people. In addition, dojos that teach you Parkour are not teaching you proper ninjutsu.
Modern Ninjutsu is still Ninjutsu. Anything else that might seem like "Modern Ninjutsu" is not ninjutsu, but really just some fun party trick with a little self defence thrown in. However, if thats fun and makes you feel good, there is no reason to condone it. But regardless, its not Ninjutsu.
Pretty much sums up why I like green so much
On the internet, everywhere is Soviet Russia[/QUOTE]
Also, my cousin's husband is the #1 (maybe #2) ranked fighter in SC...not sure what league/affiliation, but I know that he has had a title and I asked him about getting into MMA and what he would suggest to focus on...his answer was wrestling without any hesitation.
I don't care what anyone says, it may not be a martial arts but it sure as hell is a fighting style/sport.
then may I suggest Iaijutsu as an alternative to Kendo?
Kendo is traditionally the sport derived from the practice of using a Katana for a long term combat with a single opponent. Unfortunately due to having been relegated primarily to the role of a sport it is no longer really useful to the purpose of being a useful fighting style.
On the other hand, Iaijutsu and by proxy it's sister Iaido are both the traditional descendents of the Martial Art that was derived in Ancient Japan by the Samurai for the purpose of resolving conflict between two individual Samurai. This method of resolving conflict can also be known as the "Quick Release" or "Quick Draw" (As ironic as that may sound in a world that has seen the days of the Wild West come and go). The idea being simply this, two Samurai would stand opposite of each other, and they would each draw their Katana or Wakizashi at deadly speeds with the intent to kill the other. The one who remained standing was the victor.
Granted lethal Iaido is rarely practiced in this day and age. However Iaijutsu is still a viable martial art (though it is a rare one) that often still adheres to many of the codes of Bushido in keeping with traditions of the Samurai. Additionally while Iaijutsu and Iaido traditionally deal primarily with the process of drawing the sword from the scabbard, many of the things learned in Iaijutsu and Iaido can be applied to street fighting, such as timing, distance from an opponent, striking speed, control over ones inertial forces, and other similar things.
Basically what you're saying is this:
"Well you train sport fighting so its not effective if you want to fight for real"
Which is completely asinine, I'd put my money on a trained fighter vs. a "street" fighter any day of the week.
That depends, is the street fighter armed with a gun? Is the trained fighter trained in avoiding bullets? There are a lot of extenuating circumstances that determine who would actually win in a street fight (Caged Fights don't really count in this case as they are controlled environments where neither combatant really has an overt advantage over the other). Simply put if a street fighter had some means to take advantage of his environment or otherwise modify the conditions of the fight, I am 100% inclined to believe the street fighter would do so and that the trained fighter would be very unlikely to win that fight unless extremely well trained and also extremely lucky.
First, if the street fighter has a gun - it's not a fight then is it?
Secondly, what the hell do you mean "is the trained fighter trained in avoiding bullets?" You think there's a class somewhere where people train in avoiding bullets?
Do you think real life is like the movies and people study gun kata?
The subject at hand doesn't include people using grenade launchers, nukes, light sabers, pistols, katanas, knives, lasers, or any other stupid weapon you might try to include in this conversation.
I am only addressing hand to hand combat here and nothing else.
The reason your argument here is silly is because I can turn that scenario back at you and say something just as silly and go
"Well a trained fighter can carry around a pulse rifle and so he can beat a street fighter any time"
Yeah...
Why did you even write this? I'm not addressing caged fights because the subject is about STREET fighting and not Caged fighting.
Yeah, because if you have both a trained fighter and a street fighter in the same environment, the street fighter will look for a weapon, while the trained fighter will stand there picking his nose and drooling. This will give the street fighter all the time in the world to meticulously choose his weapon.
Have you ever been in or even seen a street fight?
That was VERY well said, and I think both of us have said everything we've needed to say with minimal disagreements at this point.
HOWEVER, one last thing I'd like to add, is that the philosophy of a martial art is only important to students of that particular style. If I'm not going to be studying a martial art, I'd rather know it's moves catalog rather than it's philosophy, in case I'm ever in a situation where I have to defend myself against someone of said style. Would you agree?
If the "street fighter" knows Krav Maga he's not really a street fighter...
Just sayin.
No. Muay Thai has a few good kicks, even though they throw them wide. It is by no means the best striking art.
OP, do not train in Muay Thai this early on in your development. It will throw your attributes off.
Does this involve having a sword in one's hand?
If so, that's not an improvement over kendo. Like, don't get me wrong, I respect sword arts, but when does anyone carry around a sword in this day and age?
I mean if you're in an environment where people do indeed carry around Japanese swords and wear no armor and actually train in these arts, sure. But, at least where I live, what you'll want is something like the Filipino arts which will focus on knives and improvised weapons.
Savate has some good kicks.
The thing about all of these arts is what you'll want is an eclectic style that takes what each art does well and combines them, and allows you to flow smoothly between arts. This is why I advocate Concepts Jeet Kune Do as the best art that the OP can learn at his current stage, it takes exactly this approach and focuses on honing his attributes.
*Blinks* You criticize sport martial arts and list Muay Thai?
No. Entirely the opposite is true.
All sports fights have rules. They have to. They're designed to keep people as evenly fought as possible and to not do any permanent damage to one another. None of these apply in a real fight. You're not fighting in a square/octagon wearing shorts and gloves with one guy of a similar weight category and completely unarmed with a referee to police things and tell you what you can and can't do.
You're facing an entirely different situation, one where everything is wide open and that big list of things you're not allowed to do in MMA no longer exists. People throw eye gouges in real life. People elbow strike in real life. People attack the groin in real life. People will pick up whatever's available to use as weapons in real life. People headbutt in real life. People will bite in real life, and I don't care how great your triangle choke is, if someone is biting your femoral artery then you will let go.
Not that these arts are useless (well, depends on the art. Again, if you want to learn TKD/Karate, only learn the side kick and nothing else, any more and you'll risk picking up the bad habits it has, and there are plenty), but it's an entirely different ballgame and one that one is not readily prepared for.
Except you didn't. You ridiculed the first two sentences of his post and then just dismissed everything else.
Which is valid.
For instance, you say here:
A knife is a stupid weapon? You regard the likelihood of someone carrying around a knife in real life to be on the level of someone carrying around a grenade launcher?
If this is serious, if two people are actually going at each other for real, what makes you think that it's going to stay hand to hand? Do you think in a real life setting where there's any number of things to pick up and throw or use as a weapon, two people who are actually going to keep things on an even playing field? No, you're going to grab whatever you can to use as a weapon. You're going to be using your surroundings. If you're unarmed, you're going to be using teeth and elbows.
Have you?
but there are certainly some which lend themselves better to an unstructured brawl than others.
1) floor-fighting and most throw/grapple martial arts are a no-no..... incredible in 1v1 against an untrained or unexpectant person.... completely useless against more than one person.
2) martial arts that are good at maintaining correct distance from your opponent, and using space effectively are the ones to go for. street fighters and brawlers tend to have poor awareness in this regard and just dance around a bit, throwing punches when they feel there is an opening. distance and space are weapons, just as much as your own body.
3) from having studied many martial arts, i have noticed that my hand-to-hand technique improved massively when i started practicing Kendo. it may not be practically relevent, but in terms of skill, power, speed and footwork, Kendo is huge, when combined with non-weapon martial arts.
important: i've studied martial arts for 12 years. and there's some truth that needs to be stated.
- you can never know that you'll win a fight. there is so much uncertainty and potential for other people to get involved in a brawl.
- cockiness is a bad trait to have and can get you in trouble.
- regarding knives: never, EVER fight someone who has a knife. despite what people tell you or what you learn, there is too much room for error and knives are too deadly to reliably or consistently fight against. ALWAYS run or attempt to escape from a knife fight.
and lastly:
- learning one single martial art really well is INFINITELY BETTER than learning many different styles incompletely. trust me on this.
Hmm. I think I both agree and disagree. From a combat sport perspective, I absolutely agree. There are only so many ways a strike can come at you, and knowing how a style throws those strikes can be helpful. But it can also be blinding. For instance, I wouldn't hesitate to spit in the face of a more skilled opponent. I would eye-gouge, I would grab and twist that fleshy part of your neck between your throat and your carotid. I would do everything in the list of banned activities from MMA. The Bujinkan in particular spends a lot of time training you in kata... and then breaking you of anything routine and training you to respond differently to the same attack every time.
I think it's more important to understand how someone will move and think over what 'move' they do. Does that make sense? It doesn't matter to me if you are going in for a grab, punch, kick, elbow or knee. All that matters to me is where you are sending your body and what your attitude is, and how I should navigate around that. Are you an aggressive fighter? Do you want to get in close or keep me at arm's reach? Knowing styles would help there, but more than likely anyone I would fight wouldn't be a skilled martial artist, so reading body language and being able to keep track of space is more important to me.
And I think you miss the point of weapons training. As I said above, it's not about the 'move' or in this case the weapon, but how someone moves their body when attacking. The movements involved in kenjutsu or bojutsu can be applied to any weapon (most likely a stick, a pipe, your belt, etc). The weapon is irrelevant, its about how you move your body. Not being trained in how to apply those movements to improvised weapons is a problem. Personally, I always imagine I'm fighting with a pen or my keys, since that is what I'll most likely have on me and at the ready. If someone jumps me and I have a pen... god help them, they're getting a Jay13x home tracheotomy. I told my fiance to always carry her keys like claws between her fingers when she is walking to her car alone. She never really took me seriously until one of her med school lectures was talking about how easily soft tissue could be damaged... by pens and keys.
Although if you want to learn how to knife fight, you won't find any better than the Filipino Martial Arts... the people who invented the balisong are awesome. I learned a little, but was never very good at it. The Filipino Martial Arts are derived from fighting on small boats and in tight quarters, so knife fighting and balance was important.
In any case, unless I had nowhere to run... there is no way I'm getting into a knife fight. If your opponent is in any way skilled, you are going to get cut, no exceptions. I'd rather use the secret ninja 'run the hell away' technique.
I'm not criticizing sports martial arts, I'm sorry if it comes off that way. I have a lot of respect for them, and I've no doubt that most of their practicioners could kick my butt even if I was fighting dirty. I added Muay Thai over other sports martial arts because their style is particularly brutal.
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I would like to add though, that in general, you should not be fighting anybody 1 on 1 weaponless, no sucker punches starting it and no weapons on hand, and 99% of Fights that fit that category could have best been resolved by walking or running away.
Fights that fit the "no weapons, fair start, no help, clear space" category do sound like sport, and more accurately: a DUEL.
And the only times you can really count on it staying a "duel" with no follow up is when everybody knows each other already and shouldn't be fighting anyway over some girl or respect or some shut.
With strangers, whoever loses just comes back with a damn gun, or somebody pulls a knife. Toughest Korean guy I ever knew took a knife to the ribs from a tiny Vietnamese dude and that was early 90s. Brother of biggest scariest best fighting korean i ever knew
took a double tap to the back of his head in his own apartment.
There's a lot of ☺☺☺☺☺☺☺s out there with a chip on their shoulder and nothing to lose. They are losers and riff raff. Learn to walk away. Situations as an adult where you absolutely have to fight in your life, 1 on 1 weaponless "fair", should average far less than once per lifetime.
I'm sure most of the people here are not like this, but I swear almost every street fight, yard fight, DMV fight, & bar fight I've ever seen, could have been avoided, and it's because at least one party is intoxicated or high.
We should really be asking:
(1) which martial art truly encourages you to walk away from confrontation and avoid fighting at the cost of even pride?
(2) which martial art continues to function well when you are hammered and your reflexes,timing, & balance aren't at baseline.
(3) what martial art works best against drunk people?