Mcdonald's sandwiches are not "unhealthy" per se... They are what they are: a pile of calories and flavor, with protein and fat and carbs. Skip the soda and fries and it's really not "bad" for you.
You can eat them once in a while, and don't feel guilty about it. Worst thing is that some people can't eat "just a little". Which means that abstinence becomes their only option.
Mcdonald's sandwiches are not "unhealthy" per se... They are what they are: a pile of calories and flavor, with protein and fat and carbs. Skip the soda and fries and it's really not "bad" for you.
You can eat them once in a while, and don't feel guilty about it. Worst thing is that some people can't eat "just a little". Which means that abstinence becomes their only option.
I'd like to make an addendum to the "no soda" advice, and its a corner case. Whenever I want to drink a soda, i go for Fresca. No HFCS. Satisfies my soda fix, and its 2 calories per 8 oz. To equal the calories in a 20 oz. US Coke, id have to drink 940 oz. of Fresca, which runs out to 7 gallons 44 oz. I'd say thats good considering that that much coke-cola is 11,280 calories. A small change goes a long way, although i just threw up some statistics that are bigger than anyone would (smartly) consume.
oh, 1oz of coke is 12 Calories, 1 oz. Fresca is .250 Calories for reference.
Very true; I should've been more clear in that by "snacks" I meant "stereotypical snack foods", i.e. chips, cookies, etc. that are high in sugar, salt, and calories. If you're eating healthy, well-balanced, small meals 6 times a day, that is indeed superior (from a weight loss perspective) to the same amount of food 3 times a day.
As for when to eat, that makes next to no difference.
Not necessarily. There is a well established link between nighttime eating (it's referred to as nighttime eating syndrome, of NES, in the primary literature) and obesity:
I haven't seen this research, but I don't doubt it. It's certainly not a "cut-and-dry" situation, as the cause / effect balance hasn't really been worked out. There is evidence in animal models that the culprit is circadian rhythms, as well as some evidence in humans that there is a correlation between eating after 8pm and gaining weight. However, it's entirely possible (likely in my opinion) that the reason for the association is less the time of eating and more the fact that night eating tends to be a) when you're not hungry, but are instead eating because you're bored, and b) with food that's high in fat/salt/calories.
I was under the impression that our bodies craved fat and calories because early man required a great deal of energy, but was able to easily stay healthy due to being ludicrously more active than we are today.
This is pretty much true. We're evolutionarily adapted to crave / enjoy salty, sugary, and fatty things because they're relatively rare in nature but are necessary (in small amounts) for human health. It wasn't until relatively recently that humans had regular access to these things in limitless quantities, and they're excellent marketing tools.
@ThePumpkinking - Good luck! I hope you can wade through this mess of contradictory advice and find something that works for you.
As an aside - I don't know if it's a difference between European and US perspectives, but a few of the things being said in this thread are pretty shocking to me. I don't want to point any fingers in case it turns out it's me that's the ignorant one, but some of this stuff wouldn't seem out of place from a stand-up comedian making jokes about US food habits!
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But it's required. If you were 10-20 pounds overweight, I would agree, you can make small adjustments, shave 1 day a week off eating out, pick less crappy selecitons when eating at a fast food joint.
That's not the OP. He's mobidly obese, I won't beging to guess what his blood pressure is, he's at a hugely increased risk for diabetes, heart disease, heart attack, and stoke. You don't make tiny little changes in that situaiotn. He needs to make a radical shift.
This isn't rocket sciene. You are the only person who controls what you put in your mouth. Stop putting crap in it, and you will be healthier. Learn how to feed yourself and then do it.
The only thing healthy on a fast food menu is a salad, and that's if you chuck the dressing. And no. A greasy, fat and sodium laden McMuffin is unhealthy. It may be less unhealthy than other things you could get, but that's not a reason to eat it. If you never step foot in a McDonalds again, you will be better off for it.
A couple of things.
Depending on OP's age, his weight isn't a five alarm fire. If he's in his 20's, his blood pressure at 340 pounds is probably shockingly close to normal. If he's much older than the average forum user, then he's in more serious trouble... but if he's a young guy, there is nothing wrong with taking two years to lose 100 pounds.
I had my blood pressure taken when I was 240 and just out of college, and it was 120/80 on the mark. Granted, I was an athlete in my teens, so that probably helped... but just pure obesity doesn't mean you're going to keel over dead tomorrow.
I'm really sorry to beat a dead horse... but scientifically, you have it backwards. If a thin person wants to lose five pounds, they're the one who has to go on a super strict diet. If an obese person wants to lose 50 pounds, of course they should eat healthy, you're in the right there... but calorie-for-calorie, they'll be able to eat more than the thin person and lose more weight.
Cico for an average height male with a BMI of 35 losing two pounds a week = 2300/3300
Cico for an average height male with a BMI of 25 losing two pounds a week = 1100/2100
I'm totally on board with all your healthy suggestions, I agree about cutting out fast food if someone can. Processed sugars definitely need to be cut out, or cut way down. And trans fats need to be almost eliminated. But a heavy person is still going to need good cholesterol and a well rounded nutritious diet.
As for the "all or nothing" approach you're advocating... yes it is nutritionally better but it is just too fantasy land for an obese person. Take it as firsthand experience from a guy who has tried to do the 180 switch. The whiplash is bad.
Quote from Maya W. Paul, Melinda Smith, M.A. and Jeanne Segal Ph. D. »
Try not to think of certain foods as “off-limits.” When you ban certain foods or food groups, it is natural to want those foods more, and then feel like a failure if you give in to temptation. If you are drawn towards sweet, salty, or unhealthy foods, start by reducing portion sizes and not eating them as often. Later you may find yourself craving them less or thinking of them as only occasional indulgences.
2.) You're right about the EggMcMuffin. It looks good on a low cal diet, only 300 calories, but it has a ton of terrible things for you. Bleached flour, american cheese, ham... are all things you should only eat in extreme moderation on a diet.
@Emo Pinata,
Designing your own meal is NOT hard, if a person has the following 3 abillities-
1- can read
2 can do maths
3, can combine 1 and 2 so that the combined number of calories stays below 1800 (or maybe slightly more for obese people at the beginning till they lose some weight)
You know how I did it,?
I read those tiny little boxes on the back of the packages.
In the morning I ate just some oatmeal with milk and some dried fruits, or a bread with marmelade (real black bread, not this white bread which is totally worthless and rubbish)
The first one is easy to calculate the second one has next to nothing, and I left enough room in my plan for it to fit.
Lunch.
The cafeteria in the company offers a salad bar, and they get sort of precooked meals, which state how much calories are in there (and its a company where the numbers are the real deal, they also do the wheels on meal stuff so they have to know hoch much kalories are in there)
Depending on what they offer, I can take something like this.
And for dinner its the same.
Because with processed food in the store, in packages, the kalories on the back are quite correct.
So I can just look, how many calories, Pasta, tomatoesauce and so on have, and even if its homemade, I can find rough numbers on the web, (but the tomato sauce is never the problem, if one isn´t using a ton+butter in it + tons of meat in it)
I really can´t stress it, how easy it is to READ.
Also there are tens of thousands of cookbooks, (I followed the P90X way, loosely, who will you tons of variations of meals, plans for a month of different food each day,
and with all that data, one can easily go on.
By the way, to all of you who wrote it, the whole "eating before bed is bed", it seems newer studies say, it doesn´t matter, its just not healthy in general, but not really linked to weight.
A person doesn't need to know what good portions are. If you have a measuring cup and a serving size, you can mathematically figure out portions.
You're confusing "ability to read and do simple math" with "ability to not lie to yourself or get sloppy with your measurements".
My recommendation is not born from how I live now, it was born from when I first started dieting and would maybe make that measuring cup a heaping cup and lie to myself it was even or say 4-5oz was close enough to 5oz. It's simply a common trait for people who will be diving into a shock of how little they are meant to eat vs. how much they do (and how much they can).
It was born out of person experience, and anecdotes I have from meeting other morbidly obese giants trying to lose weight (like family members). I am trying to give tips that helped me get over some of the mental roadblocks by recommending fixed calorie portions.
Eventually, you relearn how much you should be eating and what being full actually feels like (and what being hungry actually feels like) and be aware of when your overeating. starting at 340 you are a long way off.
I'm also guessing this guy knows nothing valuable about nutrition and diet and needs education and practice before you can really say he knows what he should be doing.
Another comment: Almost every PLAN outlined here by anybody CAN work for you to lose weight.
The issue isn't the PLAN. It's the EXECUTION.
Every single one of these plans can LOSE you weight... and every one can GAIN you weight. Even just asking the question: "I weigh 340, and can't lose weight, so what's the BEST way for me to lose weight?" is a declaration of misplaced responsibility.
What does it matter what the "best" plan is? Or the "second best" plan? Or the "third best" plan?
Pick one, stick with it. Don't cheat. Never blame carbs, fats, or any other bull****. Blame the number of calories you eat.
Then, on that PLAN, if eating X & exercising Y doesn't give you results after a month, then start eating .8*X & exercising 1.5*Y. That will work.
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All this wasted energy discussing what kind of plan is 'best'... mysterious carb effects and speculation about genetic dispositions, its just garbage.
It's like you have a trail to hike, and you're standing around asking "What's the BEST way for me to get to the end of this trail? Should I take a lot of breaks? Or a few breaks? Should I not expend too much energy early? Little steps or big steps? I just can't seem to make any headway here."
I just point down the trail and say "Start walking THAT way. Now. If you just keep moving in that direction, you'll get there."
Have you ever seen a guy on SURVIVOR gain weight? No. They all lose weight. They don't have enough food, and voila, they ALL lose weight.
So eat less every meal, and voila, you will lose weight.
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I'd consider weight watchers, actually. It's not just for housewives, and there's some accountability to it. It works for a lot of people.
You're confusing "ability to read and do simple math" with "ability to not lie to yourself or get sloppy with your measurements".
My recommendation is not born from how I live now, it was born from when I first started dieting and would maybe make that measuring cup a heaping cup and lie to myself it was even or say 4-5oz was close enough to 5oz. It's simply a common trait for people who will be diving into a shock of how little they are meant to eat vs. how much they do (and how much they can).
It was born out of person experience, and anecdotes I have from meeting other morbidly obese giants trying to lose weight (like family members). I am trying to give tips that helped me get over some of the mental roadblocks by recommending fixed calorie portions.
Very true problem. When a 340 pound guy asks for weight loss advice, for some reason, he seems to be dazzled by the multiple different plans and ways to look at nutrition, and really, each of these mental approaches is supposed to give the reader a way to conceptualize their diet change in a way that will be easier to COMPLY.
Instead, though, the reader usually takes it the wrong way, and interprets it as "There's so many different plans. Nobody can agree. it's not MY fault that I'm fat. It's impossible to choose." How about just ****ing picking ANY of them and actually sticking with it?
We wouldn't even consider trying to fix somebody's credit card debt problem without making them a BUDGET, and tracking ins and outs. Yet many people want to lose weight without any objective measurement of calorie intakes and expenditure.
You're confusing "ability to read and do simple math" with "ability to not lie to yourself or get sloppy with your measurements".
If someone is lying to theirself, their diet is going to be rough no matter what... and it's way easier to lie to yourself at a restaurant than your kitchen.
To me, taking on any kind of "self improvement" kick is
(1) being honest enough with yourself to acknowledge that you've failed miserably to start with, and realize the gravity of the task...
(2) but NOT beating yourself up so that you feel like a failure to the point that its easier to mentally avoid than execute.
It's being HONEST with yourself without JUDGING yourself. Not beating yourself up. Treating yourself like somebody you love and care about. Tough love to yourself. It's a tightrope.
Most people's tendency is to beat themselves up till their self esteem plummets... then give up and feel sorry for themselves... then go back to beating themselves up... in a never ending cycle.
Pick one, stick with it. Don't cheat. Never blame carbs, fats, or any other bull****. Blame the number of calories you eat.
Then, on that PLAN, if eating X & exercising Y doesn't give you results after a month, then start eating .8*X & exercising 1.5*Y. That will work.
All this wasted energy discussing what kind of plan is 'best'... mysterious carb effects and speculation about genetic dispositions, its just garbage.
This is an oversimplification. Yes, the ultimate arbiter of weight is the caloric balance (calories consumed - calories expended): if it's negative, you lose weight; if it's positive, you gain weight. However, the source of those calories will have an impact on your overall health and eating habits. To use your own hiking analogy, it's utterly ridiculous to say that "all ways to hike a trail are equivalent". What if you wanted to hike the trail walking backwards while wearing flippers? That would be more difficult and you would be less likely to finish (as well as more likely to injure yourself). While it's true that anyone can lose weight while consuming 2000 calories of sucrose a day (provided they're burning more than 2000 calories a day), that doesn't mean that it's an equivalent option to eating 2000 calories of whole grains and vegetables (and still burning more than 2000 calories). As I previously explained, foods high in simple sugars make it more difficult to regulate your food intake because they cause sharp changes in hormone levels that correlate to sharp changes in hunger. This isn't some voodoo mumbojumbo about the best diet; this is physiology.
Eat 1 bagel and banana for breakfast, 2 ham and cheese sandwhiches and chips for lunch, 1 entree 2 sides for dinner.... Minimal snacks in between *2 twinkies at most*
1 hour of excercise (walking)
thats what i do everyday probably and im really skinny..so i dont see why it wouldnt make you skinny(er)
If you get really hungry dont be weak and give into it.. ur not gonna die.
If someone is lying to theirself, their diet is going to be rough no matter what... and it's way easier to lie to yourself at a restaurant than your kitchen.
You didn't read what I'm recommending. Fixed calorie meals is not simply going out to a restaurant, it's only eating packaged meals that you cannot add more calories to - cans of soup, frozen dinners, boxed dinners, etc. For people with a very, very high starting weight it's what I recommend to completely reset your approach to food because I was once there.
In all honesty, I recommend NutriSystem for extremely heavy people if they can afford it. If not, then use the same approach with cheaper supermarket meals paying attention to calories.
I would then adopt in exercise, nutritious "real" food, and then finally eating out at a restaurant without fixed portions. Subway (for example) will remain a great way to diet because you know how much you are eating by the nature of fast food.
You didn't read what I'm recommending. Fixed calorie meals is not simply going out to a restaurant, it's only eating packaged meals that you cannot add more calories to - cans of soup, frozen dinners, boxed dinners, etc. For people with a very, very high starting weight it's what I recommend to completely reset your approach to food because I was once there.
In all honesty, I recommend NutriSystem for extremely heavy people if they can afford it. If not, then use the same approach with cheaper supermarket meals paying attention to calories.
I would then adopt in exercise, nutritious "real" food, and then finally eating out at a restaurant without fixed portions. Subway (for example) will remain a great way to diet because you know how much you are eating by the nature of fast food.
Oh, sorry, it's been a long thread. I read it, but I forgot that detail. All I can really say is what would and wouldn't work for me. I'd feel like I was in prison if I was eating preprepared meals all the time. That also sounds like a lot of processed food.
I might as well post my day up here so far, since I've been calorie counting today
I don't normally keep track of the time, but I threw that in from memory for PumpkinKing.
I'll probably have some pretzels in like two hours, and tonight is DnD so I guess I'll have a sandwich or something quick. I probably won't snack at DnD, or I'll eat popcorn.
If you don't notice any beverages on there, it's because I just drank water all day today... you'll fill up better if you eat your calories.
Things I'd do if I could - I'd switch the whole wheat naan to whole grain naan, but I couldn't find any 100% whole grain naan at Wegmans.
Keep in mind I'm still a 200+ guy, so this is what a heavy man who likes food is able to eat and feel full. The high fiber foods help.
Note: That chicken filet is a grilled piece of white meat. Not something from chik-fil-a.
2.) You're right about the EggMcMuffin. It looks good on a low cal diet, only 300 calories, but it has a ton of terrible things for you. Bleached flour, american cheese, ham... are all things you should only eat in extreme moderation on a diet.
my only problem is a semantical one. Its not ham, its canadian bacon. Canadian Bacon is leaner and more meaty than regular bacon.
Nutrition Facts
Serving Size 1 oz of cooked
Amount Per Serving
Calories from Fat 21 Calories 52
yes, regular bacon has less calories, per 1oz cooked. but look at where those calories come from, yup....canadian bacons extra calories come mostly from protein. and lets look at another breakfeast meat also served on mcdonalds menu: sausage.
ill still agree that bleached flour and american cheese are still not very good, but canadian bacon is in many peoples opinions one of the better breakfeast meats you can eat for breakfeast.
This is an oversimplification. Yes, the ultimate arbiter of weight is the caloric balance (calories consumed - calories expended): if it's negative, you lose weight; if it's positive, you gain weight. However, the source of those calories will have an impact on your overall health and eating habits. To use your own hiking analogy, it's utterly ridiculous to say that "all ways to hike a trail are equivalent". What if you wanted to hike the trail walking backwards while wearing flippers? That would be more difficult and you would be less likely to finish (as well as more likely to injure yourself). While it's true that anyone can lose weight while consuming 2000 calories of sucrose a day (provided they're burning more than 2000 calories a day), that doesn't mean that it's an equivalent option to eating 2000 calories of whole grains and vegetables (and still burning more than 2000 calories). As I previously explained, foods high in simple sugars make it more difficult to regulate your food intake because they cause sharp changes in hormone levels that correlate to sharp changes in hunger. This isn't some voodoo mumbojumbo about the best diet; this is physiology.
You're missing the point of the analogy.
You have a guy who is trying to hike to a destination. There are many different ways to get there, ALL OF WHICH REQUIRE SLiGHT DIFFERENCES IN WILL POWER AND EFFORT, but the general path is quite easy to figure out,
Instead of just realizing that you'll make it if you just start walking and stick to it...
the guy chooses path 1 which one guy recommended, but after a week, finds its tedious and not that easy, thinks there must be an easier way...
BACKTRACKS and chooses path 2 which another guy recommended, but after a week also finds it tedious and thinks "Damn, if only I had chosen the EASIEST way"...
BACKTRACKS again and chooses path 3... Etc.
All the while saying "none of these paths work for me. If only I knew the secret!!!"
Obviously some of those paths are healthier than others. Obviously some of those paths may be easier for your particular psyche than others... But jeez, its ridiculous to worry about which is best when you're epically failing and not getting 100 yards from your start. Pick a path, and stick to your rules.
When you don't lose weight, trust me, it's no ****ing mystery. Everybody around you knows why you're not losing.
@Eberbarcher: thanks. And awesome, I respect your success. The thing about letting friends know for improved accountability is a GREAT idea.
I think the whole "cut fast food entirely" thing is related to the idea of the "addiction model" for obesity. If a person considers fast food to be an addiction, then abstinence is the only way to deal wih it. If a person only considers it a "guilty pleasure", then looser rules can be used
I've had my share of weight issues and the one thing that seems to help more than anything else is exercise. When I exercise, I am motivated to eat healthy and not overeat. In logical terms, on a day where I exercise, I will burn 400 calories and eat 2000 calories, and my net calories will be 1600. If I don't exercise, I will eat whatever I feel like eating and my net calories will be around 3000. There is a huge difference between 1600 and 3000 calories.
Simply, two things will lead to weight loss: {1} reduction in caloric intake or food intake; {2} exercise. (Without exercise, difference in mass and thus weight is in muscle (size), not in or of fat.)
Before doing anything major (which, at this stage, includes exercise), I strongly recommend consulting a professional, medical doctor (at the least) and perhaps a dietician/nutritionist.
Cut crap food and ingredients (e.g., salt), minimise poor lifestyle choices, eat fresh produce, and, if you must eat things that aren't absolutely healthy, look for and opt for alternatives that are relatively healthier, and you'll not only lose weight but you'll likely live your one life longer. That can't be too bad a thing. These recommendations aren't a complete overhaul and are categorically beneficial to health or at least minimising risk.
As for all that dietetics/nutrition stuff, I would consult someone who can do the maths and recommend foods (i.e., dietician/nutritionist).
Just curious, OP, would you by any chance be hypertensive?
But the problem is absolutely a psychological/ behavioral one.
And all this mumbo jumbo about what kinda carbs do what to your body is an attempt to frame it as a physiologic/ biological problem: "how do I unlock the secret dietary combination that will get me from 340 to 190?"
Um, how about walking a few miles, and NOT eating 4000 calories a day?
It's like having a discussion about how to become an excellent driver, and most of the discussion is about what fuel and what fuel to put in it. You HAVE TO FIX THE DRIVER.
The great "mystery" here is about behavior. How to stop CHEATING on any sensible diet.
You could even do this:
Just follow the "eatwhatiate" diet. Pick a healthy looking friend. He texts you what he eats every day. He can even photograph it with his phone. You eat whatever he eats. sometimes you can even order the same **** together if you eat together. You'll lose from 340 even without exercise. Throw in exercise and youre on your way...
I meant the eatwhatieat thing to be an illustration of the absurdity of all this. Eat what skinny people eat. Don't cheat. I was meant to point out that knowing how much to eat is not a mystery, not rocket science, and not simple "distorted perception". A lot of the time it's cheating to yourself and lying to yourself.
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Being obese for most people is a mental illness, with a physical side effect. I don't know how you can view it any other way. Management of the physical problem is obvious, and failure of management is almost 100% due to the disease of straight non-compliance.
Patient - I get chest pain
Doctor - oh, your BP is 190/110. Youre hypertensive. Go on a low salt diet and take Lopressor twice a day.
(one month later)
Patient - I still have chest pain.
Doctor - do you take your lopressor and eat low salt?
Patient - once in a while... So what do you think is causing it? Should I try another drug?
And meanwhile everybody is debating which drug is best...
I think I worked out your BMI (47.53) at last. I don't use American customary (and not imperial, contrary to what the masses think that they know) units. My cranium imploded, the un-imploded. I don't think my maths is right (154/1.82) and my calculator is broken.
As a continuation of my previous question, regarding your BP and to vaguely gauge the severity of things, do you suffer from chest pain, a lack of energy, palpitations, arrhythmia, an elevated heart rate, shortness of breath, and such?
I have started to hate the why I look and feel.
If money isn't too big a problem, seek out some sort of non-nutjob-and-crackpot life coach and/or psychologist and/or headshrinker.
I keep trying to go on a diet and excersize but nothing seems to work and I give up fairly quickly.
I'm not sure how but I've realised that your problem isn't what diet or how to do stuff, it's discipline, staying power, or what-have-you.
I live on my own so I dont really have a support system at this point.
Come now, whereabouts do you reside? It's not as though you live on Mars. Surely, you have family, friends, and/or some sort of institution or establishment whereat people (can) congregate?
I don't know what else to do, I have some very serious diseases that run in my family that I would like to avoid (diabetes, heart failure). What can I do?
Ehm... there are a number of things, including pharmacological agents (e.g., beta blockers, nitroglycerine), that could be done or taken to reduce the risk of the sequlae of obesity or reduce the severity of the symptoms.
Also im upset over how I just dont seem to care about work or friends, i just sit on my butt and do nothing as much as I can all day.
I'd set my mind to doing something and doing it but I'm not you and vice versa.
Establish support circle/group/network.
Visit the doctor.
Consider counselling.
For reasons thus elucidated and as studies have shown that depression and obesity are subtly and intimately linked (via serotonin levels).
Eschew use of MTG Salvation as a brain trust.
By the way, proponents of either solely exercise or solely diet, no, it doesn't work.
Also, exercise, unless strenuous enough, isn't shown to have a marked difference in terms of weight loss (but it has a gamut of other benefits, including improving your LDL-C-to-HDL-C ratio, endothelial function and vascular compliance, sensitivity to insulin (decreasing your risk of insulin resistance and development of type-2 diabetes mellitus), and bone development via increasing vitamin D3).
I got 46.0 when i did it with his numbers. And to reach the upper limit of healthy, he has to lose 116 lbs.
And on my personal note,
im down to 38.9 (I know, but i used to be 44.7 at highest). I eat either oatmeal or Egg Mcmuffin for breakfeast and i still eat steak. My only cut: Sodas became water/tea/coffee. Im 6'2" if anyone wants to see how much weight i lost since April.
I got 46.0 when i did it with his numbers. And to reach the upper limit of healthy, he has to lose 116 lbs.
And on my personal note,
im down to 38.9 (I know, but i used to be 44.7 at highest). I eat either oatmeal or Egg Mcmuffin for breakfeast and i still eat steak. My only cut: Sodas became water/tea/coffee. Im 6'2" if anyone wants to see how much weight i lost since April.
Cut out the Egg McMuffin and you'll be better off.
And if you have a BMI that high, you sure as heck aren't just eating oatmeal and steak. Or you are eating 5 gallon of oatmeal and about 10 steaks a day. What else do you eat in a typical day?
For the longest time I drank "green smoothies" for breakfast. It's really just different green vegetables (collards, kale, spinach) and different fruits (banana, apples, berries) blended with water and some flavorless protein. This is very good for you, and will help you reach your goal.
Cut out the Egg McMuffin and you'll be better off.
And if you have a BMI that high, you sure as heck aren't just eating oatmeal and steak. Or you are eating 5 gallon of oatmeal and about 10 steaks a day. What else do you eat in a typical day?
Can you please stop it. I dont enjoy being mocked like you are mocking me right now, and if you continue ill have no issue reporting you for your ad hom attacks on me.
No, its that high because i wasnt responsible when i was younger and regularly went through 4 liters of soda on a typical day. I started eating better earlier this year. My usual breakfeast is 10 oz. of steel cut oats with dried cranberries and brown sugar. And egg mcmuffin is a sometimes thing.
You can eat them once in a while, and don't feel guilty about it. Worst thing is that some people can't eat "just a little". Which means that abstinence becomes their only option.
I'd like to make an addendum to the "no soda" advice, and its a corner case. Whenever I want to drink a soda, i go for Fresca. No HFCS. Satisfies my soda fix, and its 2 calories per 8 oz. To equal the calories in a 20 oz. US Coke, id have to drink 940 oz. of Fresca, which runs out to 7 gallons 44 oz. I'd say thats good considering that that much coke-cola is 11,280 calories. A small change goes a long way, although i just threw up some statistics that are bigger than anyone would (smartly) consume.
oh, 1oz of coke is 12 Calories, 1 oz. Fresca is .250 Calories for reference.
540 Peasant cube- Gold EditionSomething SpicyI clarified and said exactly this a mere two posts later:
Not necessarily. There is a well established link between nighttime eating (it's referred to as nighttime eating syndrome, of NES, in the primary literature) and obesity:
This is pretty much true. We're evolutionarily adapted to crave / enjoy salty, sugary, and fatty things because they're relatively rare in nature but are necessary (in small amounts) for human health. It wasn't until relatively recently that humans had regular access to these things in limitless quantities, and they're excellent marketing tools.
As an aside - I don't know if it's a difference between European and US perspectives, but a few of the things being said in this thread are pretty shocking to me. I don't want to point any fingers in case it turns out it's me that's the ignorant one, but some of this stuff wouldn't seem out of place from a stand-up comedian making jokes about US food habits!
(I'm on on this site much anymore. If you want to get in touch it's probably best to email me: dom@heffalumps.org)
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A couple of things.
Depending on OP's age, his weight isn't a five alarm fire. If he's in his 20's, his blood pressure at 340 pounds is probably shockingly close to normal. If he's much older than the average forum user, then he's in more serious trouble... but if he's a young guy, there is nothing wrong with taking two years to lose 100 pounds.
I had my blood pressure taken when I was 240 and just out of college, and it was 120/80 on the mark. Granted, I was an athlete in my teens, so that probably helped... but just pure obesity doesn't mean you're going to keel over dead tomorrow.
I'm really sorry to beat a dead horse... but scientifically, you have it backwards. If a thin person wants to lose five pounds, they're the one who has to go on a super strict diet. If an obese person wants to lose 50 pounds, of course they should eat healthy, you're in the right there... but calorie-for-calorie, they'll be able to eat more than the thin person and lose more weight.
Cico for an average height male with a BMI of 35 losing two pounds a week = 2300/3300
Cico for an average height male with a BMI of 25 losing two pounds a week = 1100/2100
I'm totally on board with all your healthy suggestions, I agree about cutting out fast food if someone can. Processed sugars definitely need to be cut out, or cut way down. And trans fats need to be almost eliminated. But a heavy person is still going to need good cholesterol and a well rounded nutritious diet.
As for the "all or nothing" approach you're advocating... yes it is nutritionally better but it is just too fantasy land for an obese person. Take it as firsthand experience from a guy who has tried to do the 180 switch. The whiplash is bad.
2.) You're right about the EggMcMuffin. It looks good on a low cal diet, only 300 calories, but it has a ton of terrible things for you. Bleached flour, american cheese, ham... are all things you should only eat in extreme moderation on a diet.
My recommendation is not born from how I live now, it was born from when I first started dieting and would maybe make that measuring cup a heaping cup and lie to myself it was even or say 4-5oz was close enough to 5oz. It's simply a common trait for people who will be diving into a shock of how little they are meant to eat vs. how much they do (and how much they can).
It was born out of person experience, and anecdotes I have from meeting other morbidly obese giants trying to lose weight (like family members). I am trying to give tips that helped me get over some of the mental roadblocks by recommending fixed calorie portions.
Eventually, you relearn how much you should be eating and what being full actually feels like (and what being hungry actually feels like) and be aware of when your overeating. starting at 340 you are a long way off.
I'm also guessing this guy knows nothing valuable about nutrition and diet and needs education and practice before you can really say he knows what he should be doing.
The issue isn't the PLAN. It's the EXECUTION.
Every single one of these plans can LOSE you weight... and every one can GAIN you weight. Even just asking the question: "I weigh 340, and can't lose weight, so what's the BEST way for me to lose weight?" is a declaration of misplaced responsibility.
What does it matter what the "best" plan is? Or the "second best" plan? Or the "third best" plan?
Pick one, stick with it. Don't cheat. Never blame carbs, fats, or any other bull****. Blame the number of calories you eat.
Then, on that PLAN, if eating X & exercising Y doesn't give you results after a month, then start eating .8*X & exercising 1.5*Y. That will work.
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All this wasted energy discussing what kind of plan is 'best'... mysterious carb effects and speculation about genetic dispositions, its just garbage.
It's like you have a trail to hike, and you're standing around asking "What's the BEST way for me to get to the end of this trail? Should I take a lot of breaks? Or a few breaks? Should I not expend too much energy early? Little steps or big steps? I just can't seem to make any headway here."
I just point down the trail and say "Start walking THAT way. Now. If you just keep moving in that direction, you'll get there."
Have you ever seen a guy on SURVIVOR gain weight? No. They all lose weight. They don't have enough food, and voila, they ALL lose weight.
So eat less every meal, and voila, you will lose weight.
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I'd consider weight watchers, actually. It's not just for housewives, and there's some accountability to it. It works for a lot of people.
Very true problem. When a 340 pound guy asks for weight loss advice, for some reason, he seems to be dazzled by the multiple different plans and ways to look at nutrition, and really, each of these mental approaches is supposed to give the reader a way to conceptualize their diet change in a way that will be easier to COMPLY.
Instead, though, the reader usually takes it the wrong way, and interprets it as "There's so many different plans. Nobody can agree. it's not MY fault that I'm fat. It's impossible to choose." How about just ****ing picking ANY of them and actually sticking with it?
We wouldn't even consider trying to fix somebody's credit card debt problem without making them a BUDGET, and tracking ins and outs. Yet many people want to lose weight without any objective measurement of calorie intakes and expenditure.
If someone is lying to theirself, their diet is going to be rough no matter what... and it's way easier to lie to yourself at a restaurant than your kitchen.
Credit where credit is due. "The best diet is the one you stick to."
That's why I'm pushing an easier diet where one enjoys food, over a super strict diet.
(1) being honest enough with yourself to acknowledge that you've failed miserably to start with, and realize the gravity of the task...
(2) but NOT beating yourself up so that you feel like a failure to the point that its easier to mentally avoid than execute.
It's being HONEST with yourself without JUDGING yourself. Not beating yourself up. Treating yourself like somebody you love and care about. Tough love to yourself. It's a tightrope.
Most people's tendency is to beat themselves up till their self esteem plummets... then give up and feel sorry for themselves... then go back to beating themselves up... in a never ending cycle.
Though I'll put it in a small font.
Please stop hijacking my reply box.
This is an oversimplification. Yes, the ultimate arbiter of weight is the caloric balance (calories consumed - calories expended): if it's negative, you lose weight; if it's positive, you gain weight. However, the source of those calories will have an impact on your overall health and eating habits. To use your own hiking analogy, it's utterly ridiculous to say that "all ways to hike a trail are equivalent". What if you wanted to hike the trail walking backwards while wearing flippers? That would be more difficult and you would be less likely to finish (as well as more likely to injure yourself). While it's true that anyone can lose weight while consuming 2000 calories of sucrose a day (provided they're burning more than 2000 calories a day), that doesn't mean that it's an equivalent option to eating 2000 calories of whole grains and vegetables (and still burning more than 2000 calories). As I previously explained, foods high in simple sugars make it more difficult to regulate your food intake because they cause sharp changes in hormone levels that correlate to sharp changes in hunger. This isn't some voodoo mumbojumbo about the best diet; this is physiology.
1 hour of excercise (walking)
thats what i do everyday probably and im really skinny..so i dont see why it wouldnt make you skinny(er)
If you get really hungry dont be weak and give into it.. ur not gonna die.
In all honesty, I recommend NutriSystem for extremely heavy people if they can afford it. If not, then use the same approach with cheaper supermarket meals paying attention to calories.
I would then adopt in exercise, nutritious "real" food, and then finally eating out at a restaurant without fixed portions. Subway (for example) will remain a great way to diet because you know how much you are eating by the nature of fast food.
Oh, sorry, it's been a long thread. I read it, but I forgot that detail. All I can really say is what would and wouldn't work for me. I'd feel like I was in prison if I was eating preprepared meals all the time. That also sounds like a lot of processed food.
I might as well post my day up here so far, since I've been calorie counting today
10/27/2011
120 - Chicken Filet 8:00AM
40 - Thin Mint 9:30AM
200 - Banana (x2) 10:00AM (second at 11:00AM)
100 - Tuna 12:00PM
30 - Balsamic Vinaigrette Dressing ""
170 - Whole Wheat Naan ""
70 - Navel Orange 3:00PM
I don't normally keep track of the time, but I threw that in from memory for PumpkinKing.
I'll probably have some pretzels in like two hours, and tonight is DnD so I guess I'll have a sandwich or something quick. I probably won't snack at DnD, or I'll eat popcorn.
If you don't notice any beverages on there, it's because I just drank water all day today... you'll fill up better if you eat your calories.
Things I'd do if I could - I'd switch the whole wheat naan to whole grain naan, but I couldn't find any 100% whole grain naan at Wegmans.
Keep in mind I'm still a 200+ guy, so this is what a heavy man who likes food is able to eat and feel full. The high fiber foods help.
Note: That chicken filet is a grilled piece of white meat. Not something from chik-fil-a.
my only problem is a semantical one. Its not ham, its canadian bacon. Canadian Bacon is leaner and more meaty than regular bacon.
Nutrition Facts
Serving Size 1 oz of cooked
Amount Per Serving
Calories from Fat 21 Calories 52
% Daily Values*
Total Fat 2.36g 4%
Saturated Fat 0.795g 4%
Polyunsaturated Fat 0.227g
Monounsaturated Fat 1.131g
Cholesterol 16mg 5%
Sodium 433mg 18%
Potassium 109mg
Total Carbohydrate 0.38g 0%
Dietary Fiber 0g 0%
Sugars 0g
Protein 6.79g
Vitamin A 0% Vitamin C 0%
Calcium 0% Iron 1%
compared to regular bacon (which mcdonalds does use)
Calories from Fat 19Calories 27
% Daily Values*
Total Fat 2.09g 3%
Saturated Fat 0.687g 3%
Polyunsaturated Fat 0.237g
Monounsaturated Fat 0.926g
Cholesterol 6mg 2%
Sodium 116mg 5%
Potassium 28mg
Total Carbohydrate 0.07g 0%
Dietary Fiber 0g 0%
Sugars 0g
Protein 1.85g
Vitamin A 0% Vitamin C 0%
Calcium 0% Iron 0%
yes, regular bacon has less calories, per 1oz cooked. but look at where those calories come from, yup....canadian bacons extra calories come mostly from protein. and lets look at another breakfeast meat also served on mcdonalds menu: sausage.
% Daily Values*
Total Fat 7.52g 12%
Saturated Fat 2.495g 12%
Polyunsaturated Fat 1.052g
Monounsaturated Fat 3.372g
Cholesterol 20mg 7%
Sodium 180mg 8%
Potassium 70mg
Total Carbohydrate 0g 0%
Dietary Fiber 0g 0%
Sugars 0g
Protein 4.28g
Vitamin A 0% Vitamin C 0%
Calcium 0% Iron 2%
ill still agree that bleached flour and american cheese are still not very good, but canadian bacon is in many peoples opinions one of the better breakfeast meats you can eat for breakfeast.
540 Peasant cube- Gold EditionSomething SpicyYou have a guy who is trying to hike to a destination. There are many different ways to get there, ALL OF WHICH REQUIRE SLiGHT DIFFERENCES IN WILL POWER AND EFFORT, but the general path is quite easy to figure out,
Instead of just realizing that you'll make it if you just start walking and stick to it...
the guy chooses path 1 which one guy recommended, but after a week, finds its tedious and not that easy, thinks there must be an easier way...
BACKTRACKS and chooses path 2 which another guy recommended, but after a week also finds it tedious and thinks "Damn, if only I had chosen the EASIEST way"...
BACKTRACKS again and chooses path 3... Etc.
All the while saying "none of these paths work for me. If only I knew the secret!!!"
Obviously some of those paths are healthier than others. Obviously some of those paths may be easier for your particular psyche than others... But jeez, its ridiculous to worry about which is best when you're epically failing and not getting 100 yards from your start. Pick a path, and stick to your rules.
When you don't lose weight, trust me, it's no ****ing mystery. Everybody around you knows why you're not losing.
@Eberbarcher: thanks. And awesome, I respect your success. The thing about letting friends know for improved accountability is a GREAT idea.
I think the whole "cut fast food entirely" thing is related to the idea of the "addiction model" for obesity. If a person considers fast food to be an addiction, then abstinence is the only way to deal wih it. If a person only considers it a "guilty pleasure", then looser rules can be used
Before doing anything major (which, at this stage, includes exercise), I strongly recommend consulting a professional, medical doctor (at the least) and perhaps a dietician/nutritionist.
Cut crap food and ingredients (e.g., salt), minimise poor lifestyle choices, eat fresh produce, and, if you must eat things that aren't absolutely healthy, look for and opt for alternatives that are relatively healthier, and you'll not only lose weight but you'll likely live your one life longer. That can't be too bad a thing. These recommendations aren't a complete overhaul and are categorically beneficial to health or at least minimising risk.
As for all that dietetics/nutrition stuff, I would consult someone who can do the maths and recommend foods (i.e., dietician/nutritionist).
Just curious, OP, would you by any chance be hypertensive?
But the problem is absolutely a psychological/ behavioral one.
And all this mumbo jumbo about what kinda carbs do what to your body is an attempt to frame it as a physiologic/ biological problem: "how do I unlock the secret dietary combination that will get me from 340 to 190?"
Um, how about walking a few miles, and NOT eating 4000 calories a day?
It's like having a discussion about how to become an excellent driver, and most of the discussion is about what fuel and what fuel to put in it. You HAVE TO FIX THE DRIVER.
The great "mystery" here is about behavior. How to stop CHEATING on any sensible diet.
You could even do this:
Just follow the "eatwhatiate" diet. Pick a healthy looking friend. He texts you what he eats every day. He can even photograph it with his phone. You eat whatever he eats. sometimes you can even order the same **** together if you eat together. You'll lose from 340 even without exercise. Throw in exercise and youre on your way...
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Being obese for most people is a mental illness, with a physical side effect. I don't know how you can view it any other way. Management of the physical problem is obvious, and failure of management is almost 100% due to the disease of straight non-compliance.
Patient - I get chest pain
Doctor - oh, your BP is 190/110. Youre hypertensive. Go on a low salt diet and take Lopressor twice a day.
(one month later)
Patient - I still have chest pain.
Doctor - do you take your lopressor and eat low salt?
Patient - once in a while... So what do you think is causing it? Should I try another drug?
And meanwhile everybody is debating which drug is best...
Wtf?
As a continuation of my previous question, regarding your BP and to vaguely gauge the severity of things, do you suffer from chest pain, a lack of energy, palpitations, arrhythmia, an elevated heart rate, shortness of breath, and such?
If money isn't too big a problem, seek out some sort of non-nutjob-and-crackpot life coach and/or psychologist and/or headshrinker.
I'm not sure how but I've realised that your problem isn't what diet or how to do stuff, it's discipline, staying power, or what-have-you.
Come now, whereabouts do you reside? It's not as though you live on Mars. Surely, you have family, friends, and/or some sort of institution or establishment whereat people (can) congregate?
Ehm... there are a number of things, including pharmacological agents (e.g., beta blockers, nitroglycerine), that could be done or taken to reduce the risk of the sequlae of obesity or reduce the severity of the symptoms.
I'd set my mind to doing something and doing it but I'm not you and vice versa.
Also, exercise, unless strenuous enough, isn't shown to have a marked difference in terms of weight loss (but it has a gamut of other benefits, including improving your LDL-C-to-HDL-C ratio, endothelial function and vascular compliance, sensitivity to insulin (decreasing your risk of insulin resistance and development of type-2 diabetes mellitus), and bone development via increasing vitamin D3).
I got 46.0 when i did it with his numbers. And to reach the upper limit of healthy, he has to lose 116 lbs.
And on my personal note,
540 Peasant cube- Gold EditionSomething SpicyCut out the Egg McMuffin and you'll be better off.
And if you have a BMI that high, you sure as heck aren't just eating oatmeal and steak. Or you are eating 5 gallon of oatmeal and about 10 steaks a day. What else do you eat in a typical day?
For the longest time I drank "green smoothies" for breakfast. It's really just different green vegetables (collards, kale, spinach) and different fruits (banana, apples, berries) blended with water and some flavorless protein. This is very good for you, and will help you reach your goal.
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Can you please stop it. I dont enjoy being mocked like you are mocking me right now, and if you continue ill have no issue reporting you for your ad hom attacks on me.
No, its that high because i wasnt responsible when i was younger and regularly went through 4 liters of soda on a typical day. I started eating better earlier this year. My usual breakfeast is 10 oz. of steel cut oats with dried cranberries and brown sugar. And egg mcmuffin is a sometimes thing.
540 Peasant cube- Gold EditionSomething Spicy