I live in a town where M:TG is not only a minority hobby, but it's considered an expensive one too (when considering the economy of this place). I've implied it a few times before making this thread.
However, I officially declare that it's dominated by Spikes and Melvins. The very few guys I meet who try to understand the Vorthos mindset end up doing so very, VERY poorly. I've pretty much given up getting them to understand how I build my decks. (Especially after this weekend, when I showed them the list I planned for my Intet EDH deck.)
I don't really know where to start with how sucky this all is. First of all, these are the only people I can play with for miles. My brother is one of them (the fact that I hardly ever get along with him does not help). I'm the subject of trash talk and backstabbing because I concede too often and 'undermine' my deck.
In other words, I get flak for wanting to play one way and I can't do schtick about it. Secondly, I like writing fanfiction. I even got commissions from some of the more sympathetic players. The attitude I get from these Spikes is NOT helping my creativity.
Finally, when you consider recent events regarding Savor the Flavor, I can't help but feel like this entire game does not seem to support its flavor all too well. I may not have a right to say this because I haven't played for long, but I feel that my LGS is one fat indicator of this. I'm not trying to force anyone to play my way but is it too much to ask for a little respect? Their Johnny-Spike combo decks always have a high guarantee against my art decks. Why shouldn't I concede? You've won. Congrats. I don't see why I deserve getting dissed because I don't play to win or place flavor over mechanics. I'm FORCED to respect yours and yet you just use it as instrument to trash my tastes more? How is that fair!?
That's a terrible situation to be in. It's obvious you're misunderstood. You should go on Craigslist and post "ISO Vorthos for art duel," and then you and your new playmate can sit around and not win all day, commenting on the flavor of each other's decks.
EDH/Commander is a social format, right? So why don't people use their social skills to discuss what they like and don't like, instead of adopting a list with 60+ banned cards?
Perhaps looking at this from a different point of view would help. While I am predominantly a spike, perhaps I can assist by putting out (based on what you said) how a spike views the situation.
Enter story (and keep in mind, this isn't to offend you, I'm trying to put out how the other parties likely see the situation for a bit of perspective)
So, we got this one guys at the shop, pretty decent kid. But playing EDH (based on previous posts, I assume this is the format primarily played) with him is such a chore. We try to have an interesting game, but he consistently shows up with the biggest pile of crap. Sometimes, I feel like he is trying to play the worst card possible in a given situation. He keeps trying to justify playing these bad cards by saying, "But I'm a Vorthos!". That's great and all, but most of the time, his cards lead to uninteresting game states that just bore us. On top of that, while I'm trying to think through a line of plays that sets me up for a better board state, he's jabbering on about some story he came up with. We usually end up trying to knock him out of the game quickly so that we can try to focus on playing better, and hope that he will see that some of his card choices aren't optimal. Instead, he whines that we used better cards to get him out of the game. He accuses us of backstabbing him, but really, we're just trying to remove the least interesting deck from the game so we can actually have a fun game. I'm not sure how to approach him and ask him to play better cards. On top of that, he keeps trying to sell us his stories.
End point of view story
Even if you're not actively trying to sell your stories, if your LGS is like most, by the time it goes through the grape vine a few times, people see it as you trying to sell it. I understand how frustrating it can be to be the only player of a specific brand at a LGS, when I've traveled to events before and sat down for a game of EDH with some guys at that LGS, I've been outright told I can't play a second game because my deck was too competitive at a LGS full of casuals. There is a reason I don't have an EDH deck any more, too many self imposed house rules wherever you go. Too competitive, too many counters, cards worth more than $10, you name the house rule, I've probably heard it somewhere. Perhaps the best advice I can offer, since you are in the minority at your LGS is to meet them on common ground. Do you have access to cards to make ONE of your decks more competitive? Meet them at their ground, which oddly seems to be considering themselves competitive at a casual format. In most cases, if you approach someone on their ground, where they feel most comfortable, they will respect you more. After knocking back a couple of games with your competitive deck, ask if they mind if you switch to something more casual. Don't say Vorthos, just casual. They probably won't mind, and since they've knocked back a couple games that are fun for them, they will be more receptive to your Vorthos decks. Don't push the "This is why my Vorthos deck is super cool" talk, if someone is curious on why you're running something, they will ask. Until you build up some "street cred" with them, just give them the Reader's Digest version of why you think it's cool. 15-20 second quick overview, max. If that interests them, they will ask more. Over time, with you meeting them on their "turf" with the competitive deck first, they'll start to see you as an equal. At the point, it'll be a lot easier to play more Vorthos stuff because they will know that they like you as a person instead of just being annoyed at the decks you play.
Private Mod Note
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Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Odds of pulling a JtMS from a WWK pack: 1:80
Odds of pulling any specific rare in 5th Edition: 1:133
So, on average, 1 JtMS every 2.222 boxes or 1 Bird of Paradise every 3.694 boxes. Yeah, I'll take my odds with Mythics, they are easier to get than old rares.
Want to support a LGS that finally branched into the selling online world? Send me a pm with your email for a $5 off coupon (usable on purchases of $10 or more) for a LGS that just recently got onto TCG player.
@aleerpsoftware: What Kelnon said. Try to find middle ground.
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Though, I must say, your story seems to have a more like...there's a bunch of boys are playing war, and you're the new guy.
And you come traipsing along, and want to join their game... you wanna play war TOO! But you want to be the... baker.
aleerpsoftware: "Just go on with what you're doing, keep shooting each other... and whenever you get tired, you can come into my shop in Paris, eat some biscotti and have a decaf macchiato!"
other kid: "You can be a bazooka guy!"
aleerpsoftware: "But I'm Vorthos, the French baker!"
other kid: "We're playing World War II!"
aleerpsoftware: "But part of World War II took place on the streets of Paris, during one of the most romantic periods in the 20th century! I am adding a lot to your game by fleshing out the flavor of the time period. I don't carry a gun."
other kid: "um... ok. *POW* I shot you! You have to lie there and not talk anymore... Hey guys, I shot Vorthos the baker!"
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No offense intended. Because if it was me playing war, I'd be fine with you playing the baker, or the planeswalker, just so long as you don't get in the line of fire, or wreck the game the rest of us are playing.
But the story feels like that to me. You want to talk about Vorthos and you're into fan-fic, and the other kids are really just trying to play a nice semi-competitive game.
To me it sounds like the little league baseball kid who is really not interested in the game everybody else is playing, and counting clouds in right field. Maybe this little league is not for you?
I agree with Kelnon that you first have to try playing by the LOCAL rules/styles, give it a chance, then maybe slowly introduce your ideas "Hey wanna try something different? Back in Michigan, we do it THIS way..."
I don't mind Vorthos decks, but you have to realize that you can't make others play the same way you want too. I'd recommend most of your fandom be channeled into a vein that also has plenty of Vorthos around. Like here. THE INTERNET WILL SAVE YOU!
Or just make multiple Vorthos decks and play against yourself while setting and creating the plot. Be your own storyteller.
Perhaps the best advice I can offer, since you are in the minority at your LGS is to meet them on common ground. Do you have access to cards to make ONE of your decks more competitive? Meet them at their ground, which oddly seems to be considering themselves competitive at a casual format. In most cases, if you approach someone on their ground, where they feel most comfortable, they will respect you more.
I agree with Kelnon that you first have to try playing by the LOCAL rules/styles, give it a chance, then maybe slowly introduce your ideas "Hey wanna try something different? Back in Michigan, we do it THIS way..."
I've considered this approach. But given their complete large egos and just sheer dislike they have for me that has gone beyond the game, I don't think I'll ever be given a chance to change anything. I'll try and make a competitive deck but I must say that I won't enjoy it as much. (I never did. Otherwise, I'd go back to playing Yu-Gi-Oh!.)
They're all narcissists (and they've admitted this themselves) so as much as I will try and give your advice a shot, I hope you don't mind expressing my unease that I'll just end up feeding their egos. Honestly, it's official. I've really had it said to me that "You want to win. Do deny it is to believe a big fat lie" or whatever egotistical, self-serving Spike BS jargon.
I really don't understand why it's so hard to believe that some people play for reasons outside of winning. Heck, there's only one other guy I know who at least sympathizes with the mentality and the flavor of his decks are still hard for me to digest.
I don't mind Vorthos decks, but you have to realize that you can't make others play the same way you want too. I'd recommend most of your fandom be channeled into a vein that also has plenty of Vorthos around. Like here. THE INTERNET WILL SAVE YOU!
I never wanted them to. It just so happens I have a narc for a brother who likes to backstab me and now he's made Melvin friends who generally dislike me. Sometimes I wonder if the real problem is there's only one LGS, one community here in my area that plays and they turn out to be the last player type I'd wanna play with (and vice-versa). Still, if I have to play with them and them with me, I could at least be given some respect. So far, the recent trash talk about me is forcing me to respect theirs but it just makes sick and I'm not sure I'm eager to give them the satisfaction.
I've considered this approach. But given their complete large egos and just sheer dislike they have for me that has gone beyond the game, I don't think I'll ever be given a chance to change anything. I'll try and make a competitive deck but I must say that I won't enjoy it as much. (I never did. Otherwise, I'd go back to playing Yu-Gi-Oh!.)
They're all narcissists (and they've admitted this themselves) so as much as I will try and give your advice a shot, I hope you don't mind expressing my unease that I'll just end up feeding their egos. Honestly, it's official. I've really had it said to me that "You want to win. Do deny it is to believe a big fat lie" or whatever egotistical, self-serving Spike BS jargon.
At this point, have you considered that you're the one's that's the problem, not them?
Maybe you're acting like a pompous jerk who thinks your way is superior. Ever thought of that?
They like playing the game the way they do. The above just shows your ego being the monumental one.
I don't see why I deserve getting dissed because I don't play to win or place flavor over mechanics. I'm FORCED to respect yours and yet you just use it as instrument to trash my tastes more? How is that fair!?
Forgive me if I fail to see you giving respect. Because nearly everything I've read above doesn't indicate any respect from you at all.
I was just telling my wife about this. To avoid flaming, I'll cut right to the chase. I told her that the OP likes building decks with a story, but doesn't like getting crushed. To which, she said "Build a deck that wins, and then make a story up".
Seriously look at this:
"I'm the subject of trash talk and backstabbing because I concede too often and 'undermine' my deck.
Why shouldn't I concede? You've won. Congrats."
- It drives me up a wall when people do not make an effort to play the game. I would feel like you are wasting my time if you did this to me. From a 3rd person perspective, it really seems like you are just a bad sport.
"They're all narcissists (and they've admitted this themselves)"
- These guys aren't any different from other Magic shops. They are just normal people. Judgments like these seem to project a feeling of superiority.
You also mentioned several times that you don't get along with your brother. I know it might be hard/impossible, but try to improve relations with him. I'm sure that he can help you fit in more than anyone.
Have you tried D&D? I think you would have a much better time playing that. (You might make a good DM)
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How does this Vorthos thing work? Are you trying to tell a story while playing?
I think your approaching this from a sense of entitlement you really don't seem to have earned. Why should they play the game you want to play again? Because it would be "fair?" Fair is something you go to in the fall to ride the Ferris wheel, not a concept you bring to a play group. You want to be a part of the group, you play the way the group wants to play. If you don't want to play the way the group does, don't expect them to make exceptions to allow you in. Make your own group, then you can decide what goes and what doesn't.
I'm not trying to force anyone to play my way but is it too much to ask for a little respect?
I don't act like a pompous jerk. I really do have a bunch of narcs who take the slightest offense for not playing things their way. I don't care about their combo decks. I don't care about losing. I'm not bitter about losing. I'm tired of having people assume that I'm just like them who think I'm drunk on winning. One guy even said I go crazy on the rare occasions that I do win.
Last time I checked, the only thing I feel after winning is relief. As, in my head-is-on-the-table-figuratively-passed-out relief.
They like playing the game the way they do. The above just shows your ego being the monumental one.
Only because you haven't meet them? I wouldn't be ranting here if I wasn't fed up with the attitude I've been getting. I don't declare my way is the best way. I DO have people declare my way is the crappiest way. Without warranty. Everyone gangs up on it.
I've always got my back against the wall with these people.
Forgive me if I fail to see you giving respect. Because nearly everything I've read above doesn't indicate any respect from you at all.
Again, I wouldn't be dissing these people if there wasn't a line that hadn't been crossed. They can disagree with my style, with my emphasis on flavor over victory all the want.
But to backstab me on Facebook and turn the whole community against me?
I think your approaching this from a sense of entitlement you really don't seem to have earned. Why should they play the game you want to play again? Because it would be "fair?"
Again, did ANY of you read what I just bolded? I don't care if they want to play this way or that way. The fact remains, I'm stuck with them and they're stuck with me because there's no other M:TG community for the next hundred miles. The sad thing is, I'm in the minority (as in one-person minority). The least I could get is some respect for my view and no whining because I don't play their way. I lose? Whatever. Your deck is obviously better. End of story. I'm not asking anybody to change their playstyle. Unfortunately, narcissists somehow translate that as the complete opposite.
I was just telling my wife about this. To avoid flaming, I'll cut right to the chase. I told her that the OP likes building decks with a story, but doesn't like getting crushed. To which, she said "Build a deck that wins, and then make a story up".
Seems like an elegant solution to me.
I've tried that. Frankly, it only felt like I was lying to myself.
Ironically, these Spikes accuse me of lying to myself when I say I don't play to win. Projection much?
I've already resigned myself to the fact that this game (or pretty much a lot of TCGs) don't support flavor all too well. Hence, art decks tend to generally run badly against competitive ones. I realize that. I accept that. It's why I don't bother trying to win all the time. Why can't they? They don't like playing against my deck? Then they should finally come out in the open and declare that they're a competitive or at least a No-Vorthos-Allowed play group. (Unlike the so-called 'open and accepting' facade they put up.) If they don't want to prove that it's all a face, then they oughta be willing to accept that I don't play their way. Better yet, I'd rather we exchange styles. I play your way, then you play mine. The sad part is (with small thanks to my brother) I highly, HIGHLY doubt they'll ever want to play like a Vorthos.
Sounds like you need to switch different hobbies.
If it's not fun then you need a break. Someone eariler said you should try D&D since you're into the lore of things this should be right up your alley.
How is this art? Cards in this deck do not make sense. What story are you telling with this deck? Would playing affinity/elves/merfolk be any different? Where does the Vorthos link happen? From what little research I've done Vorthos is primarily linked to writing outside the game/artwork. I'm really having trouble figuring out what you are not getting from the game.
I don't know what it is, but your arguments are the same ones that I've seen when people valiantly defend things like being a furry. Why are you trying to prove that your way is the right way? Does it matter? Why would it matter that the people you are playing are competitive? Magic is a game at its core. It is closer to poker than Game of Thrones.
It is pretty clear that you are the rare person that doesn't care about winning. I don't think that you have it in you to realize why this is a problem for everyone else. If I build decks to win, then I am constantly seeking to improve my deck. Playing against your deck is literally a waste of time. It is not playing competitive cards and I am not going to improve myself by playing against it.
I look at the groups like this:
Spike: win by any means necessary, play the best possible cards.
Johnny: win by the most interesting means possible; memorable wins are the ones most worth chasing.
Timmy: win by stomping people with a show of overwhelming force, generally winning with a huge creature or a huge bunch of creatures.
Vorthos: win while using cards that are linked through their artwork, whether it be a common artist or common art theme OR winning with cards that share a story arc and could actually coexist within the backstory of MTG.
Notice that every group wants to win. It is the way of winning that is the difference. Without having the details of the FB conversations and your ostracism from the local playgroup, I can't really comment further.
In summation.....Star Trek wins a prolonged naval battle against superior, yet less technologically advanced, numbers, with Picard leading the assault, while Kirk takes your soul by laying out Solo and probably his manservant Chewy as well, before impregnating and ditching your Princess.
How is this art? Cards in this deck do not make sense. What story are you telling with this deck? Would playing affinity/elves/merfolk be any different? Where does the Vorthos link happen? From what little research I've done Vorthos is primarily linked to writing outside the game/artwork. I'm really having trouble figuring out what you are not getting from the game.
Sorry but I don't like replying much to somebody who can't even grasp the basic Vorthos mindset. Furthermore comments like this...
I don't know what it is, but your arguments are the same ones that I've seen when people valiantly defend things like being a furry. Why are you trying to prove that your way is the right way? Does it matter? Why would it matter that the people you are playing are competitive? Magic is a game at its core. It is closer to poker than Game of Thrones.
...are moot because 1) I don't believe my way is the right way. 2) I'm the one trying to follow a live and let live mentality. They're not yet they try to make their playgroup look like it does. 3) I don't care how they play. I just wish they'd stop bemoaning the fact that I concede often and don't want to build my deck their way.
Vorthos: win while using cards that are linked through their artwork, whether it be a common artist or common art theme OR winning with cards that share a story arc and could actually coexist within the backstory of MTG.
Notice that every group wants to win. It is the way of winning that is the difference. Without having the details of the FB conversations and your ostracism from the local playgroup, I can't really comment further.
I know people say there are competitive Vorthos decks out there but these I find come too far and too few in between. They also tend to be expensive. Neither do I see myself playing them. The best you can say is that I play decks like that even if I can't see myself in them. Sure but that's still nothing compared to just playing with a deck I really like without people getting on my case with my losing/concede streak.
P.S.
I've already set my sights on my Intet deck so even if price weren't the case, I really can't afford to switch priorities right now.
Well, I can see why you get the hate from that playgroup. I legitimately tried to understand your thought process. I even pulled up one of your decks. I read the wiki on what Vorthos is supposed to mean. I see no connection between that and your deck.
I would say that you're just trolling us all, but your post history shows that you actually care about this.
My guess is that you are just "that guy" of the group.
If anybody seems narcissistic, it's you. If you really want things to be cool, I highly doubt that you've truly "burned your bridges". People who play MtG are usually pretty chill, and i doubt they'd hold a grudge about this stuff. If anything their opinion of you right now is probably just "a little odd" and "immature".
I highly doubt they give you enough thought to hate you.
I doubt they enjoy you being a pariah, because that's just a buzz kill.
You say you just don't like these people, but I highly doubt it, or you wouldn't be asking us this stuff.
Just relax a little and try to get along. You don't need the world to validate how unique you are.
And making friends is about making them individually. They're not just a "group". They're a bunch of unique individuals, and they're not all best friends. Get to know one or two of them and their good qualities, listen instead of pushing your "Vorthos-ness" on them. Try to maybe have a conversation that isn't all about YOU.
Everybody here is trying to help you, and I think almost everybody here is coming to the same conclusions. Try to listen. If you find yourself dismissing a lot of people this way, maybe you're the one with the problem.
You guys don't understand. He doesn't just choose to be a Vorthos. He is a Vorthos because of the way his brain developed, and therefore it is his identity, whether or not you like to acknowledge it. You're all just a bunch of spike-privileged players and your rejection of Vorthos players makes you morally repugnant and you should all feel bad for not accepting something different even if it disagrees with your moral values.
I concede on rare occasion. That usually means its turn 8 and I still only have two lands and I'm holding castings costs of 4-5-6. Its a waste, I'm frustrated, lets move on to match 2 or 3.
But if you concede all the time, your taking a lot of enjoyment away from other people. Say I plop down Emrakul so you concede before I get to swing and enjoy the full effect of my card. Wheres the fun in that? If your doing it ALL the time I could understand why other people might not like to play against you. Quitting all the time essentially denies the other person of their earned satisfactory win. If you do it to people every other game its a really jerk move. Its like your getting your last stab in. Imma quit so you don't have the satisfaction of winning.
Granted, in tournament my opponents may concede as much as they like. But this isnt the situation.
As a player who really does like to win, and hates losing, I would hold no animosity toward you for playing casually, having a non-competitive deck or no real drive to win. Thats fine man. I like to make my decks fun too. I really do play FOR FUN. I like to win in fun, unique but effective ways on my own terms.
But if your gonna quit all the time or get mad alot ...? Especially if your giving ME a hard time for winning or the cards I played or how serious my deck is. Essentially, your blaming me for your deck and playstyle.
That probably why your having a hard time with it. If your going to play a fun casual deck, accept it, have fun and enjoy the game - don't get mad or hate on people if things don't go well. If the actual loss bothered you so much, that means you DO enjoy winning, or enjoy at least having a fighting chance - and you'd be happier with a stronger deck.
Sorry but I don't like replying much to somebody who can't even grasp the basic Vorthos mindset.
Oh cmon dude! Sheesh. If this is how your adressing your fellow MTG players in real life, would they want to play with you?
You guys don't understand. He doesn't just choose to be a Vorthos. He is a Vorthos because of the way his brain developed, and therefore it is his identity, whether or not you like to acknowledge it. You're all just a bunch of spike-privileged players and your rejection of Vorthos players makes you morally repugnant and you should all feel bad for not accepting something different even if it disagrees with your moral values.
You must have been in the debate forum.
narcissists
You need to make the distinguishment between people who are making comments because they are happy their deck is working and happy they are winning, or people who take personal pleasure in beating you and screwing your cards. I've rarely encountered the second while playing magic. I have encountered rude people in tournaments who have poor attitudes and make snide comments, but thats their problem. I really do enjoy that because it reaffirms I am doing well. I'm very accustomed to this because I play a lot of billiards. You meet a lot of people who make comments the entire game and try to get inside of your head, intimidate and discourage you.
I concede on rare occasion. That usually means its turn 8 and I still only have two lands and I'm holding castings costs of 4-5-6. Its a waste, I'm frustrated, lets move on to match 2 or 3.
Those are my reasons with the only difference being it just happens more often for me.
But if you concede all the time, your taking a lot of enjoyment away from other people. Say I plop down Emrakul so you concede before I get to swing and enjoy the full effect of my card. Wheres the fun in that? If your doing it ALL the time I could understand why other people might not like to play against you. Quitting all the time essentially denies the other person of their earned satisfactory win. If you do it to people every other game its a really jerk move. Its like your getting your last stab in. Imma quit so you don't have the satisfaction of winning.
Okay first off, lemme clarify something. For some unexplainable reason, my playgroup is obsessed with EDH. Some of them have standard decks for stuff like tourneys but EDH is the only format encouraged and often sees play at my LGS.
And as such, I'm used to seeing stuff like Emrakul (although that's banned). However, you pull out one win-con on me, one hit, and that is what I'll only take before reshuffling. If I see it again in another game. I will reshuffle. You put down a Vorinclex and I (or anyone else) got no response for the next 3 turns, things might as well stop dragging out. I will reshuffle. See? My reasons are like yours. When I've seen an engine built up and I got no answers, what's the point? You've shown me how it works. New game.
But if your gonna quit all the time or get mad alot ...? Especially if your giving ME a hard time for winning or the cards I played or how serious my deck is. Essentially, your blaming me for your deck and playstyle.
That probably why your having a hard time with it. If your going to play a fun casual deck, accept it, have fun and enjoy the game - don't get mad or hate on people if things don't go well. If the actual loss bothered you so much, that means you DO enjoy winning, or enjoy at least having a fighting chance - and you'd be happier with a stronger deck.
I really, really, really don't understand why people here and offline assume my issue is losing. It's not. I don't care if lose. I try really hard to accept the fact that these guys play competitive. However, to backstab me, humiliate me, insult me, troll me whatever. All of that because I don't like to play decks like theirs. I ask you, how is that fair? How can I enjoy when I'm being harassed like that all because of my play style? It's gone so far that my own words are constantly distorted into criticisms of theirs.
Frankly, the only times when I've meditated on a loss, I ended up wasting my time when I should be doing something more important. I can't afford to do that any more, much less to please people who never had any respect for me or my playstyle to begin with.
Oh cmon dude! Sheesh. If this is how your adressing your fellow MTG players in real life, would they want to play with you?
I don't even use the word Vorthos around them. They'll just scratch their heads. Look that may have sounded rude but so is saying "This is art?" and then put it next to "How does this Vorthos thing work?" I'm sorry but that sounds just like the guys I've been playing with. Forgive me for my rudeness, for my ranting, but I've had enough of trying to explain my decks to people like that (only to get a nice big Spike serving of "there is no art in Magic" no less).
You need to make the distinguishment between people who are making comments because they are happy their deck is working and happy they are winning, or people who take personal pleasure in beating you and screwing your cards.
I have nothing against people who are happy with their decks. I have everything against people who go so far as to disrespect me as person just so I'd build mine like theirs and that my play style pisses them off.
That's my problem. It's not losing. It's not my deck. It's the fact that these people really can't learn to respect differences in game playing.
I don't even use the word Vorthos around them. They'll just scratch their heads. Look that may have sounded rude but so is saying "This is art?" and then put it next to "How does this Vorthos thing work?" I'm sorry but that sounds just like the guys I've been playing with. Forgive me for my rudeness, for my ranting, but I've had enough of trying to explain my decks to people like that (only to get a nice big Spike serving of "there is no art in Magic" no less)...
I have everything against people who go so far as to disrespect me as person just so I'd build mine like theirs and that my play style pisses them off.
That's my problem. It's not losing. It's not my deck. It's the fact that these people really can't learn to respect differences in game playing.
I only asked that because I truly do not understand. I really want you to explain what your Vorthos style is. I (and possibly others) do not understand what on earth you are talking about. Please explain what you mean.
I'm a law student who graduated from a fairly good college. I have studied all walks of literature and art. I can figure out what you are trying to do. To say, "They'll just scratch their heads..." in reference to me and other players is incredibly disrespectful. If you came here for advice and help that's one thing. If you just want to ***** and rant without taking any consideration into what has been given to you, then I don't think anyone here can or should try to help you.
Really, I want to respect you and your playstyle, but I and others do not understand what that is.
I only asked that because I truly do not understand. I really want you to explain what your Vorthos style is. I (and possibly others) do not understand what on earth you are talking about. Please explain what you mean.
I'm a law student who graduated from a fairly good college. I have studied all walks of literature and art. I can figure out what you are trying to do. To say, "They'll just scratch their heads..." in reference to me and other players is incredibly disrespectful. If you came here for advice and help that's one thing. If you just want to ***** and rant without taking any consideration into what has been given to you, then I don't think anyone here can or should try to help you.
Really, I want to respect you and your playstyle, but I and others do not understand what that is.
Hi! I play a fairly Vorthosian style, and might help here.
Short answer: We like the flavor of the game so much, it makes our decks for us. We like decks that share a central, storyline theme, or a story we make, or tribal in some cases.
Long answer:
Do you know how many Elesh Norn's I run? One. Because there is only one Elesh Norn. In fact, if I have mine in hand, and my opponent plays one, I will cast mine. Only, instead, what I see is this:
My opponent has just called Elesh Norn to his side, and I grin as I try to mimic his spell, and watch her fold in on herself as reality bends, trying to summon her in two places at once, and her body collapses in a heap while the opposing planeswalker looks shocked and distraught at the loss of his ally.
And that's when I begin casting her allies...all of which are White Phyrexians from the church fromthe Scars of Mirrodin block, and all of the cards that have Elesh Norn's name on them. ALL. OF. THEM.
I have a Rebecca Guay deck, that is only Rebecca Guay art. Was it hard to make/find this? Yep, incredibly. Was it worth it? To me, yes.
I have a green deck that is just all the cards based off Kamahl and the Kamahlite druids. It's more than 60 cards, but whatever, it works.
We don't necesarily care about winning, though some do, and I enjoy it myself, but we care that, when we play our deck, it seems to hold a flavorful theme.
If you think about it, any kind of tribal deck can be a little Vorthosian if you keep it strict. Like, R/U Delver is kind of like a mad scientist. Azami EDH is kind of like a wizard slowly going mad, unraveling his mind faster than he knows how to use it...
Most Vorthosians go there whole life without even knowing they're a Vorthos. Some, the unfortunate few, are so obsessed with it, they end up like Aleerp here, without a real place in the game, and slightly bitter because of it.
Leerp, you may need to take some time away from Magic. I did it when my "Kamahl's Bears" deck just stopped being fun for me. Now? I play Mono-White Elesh Norn, keep it totally flavorful, and still have a good time. It's possible to be a Vorthos and have fun, it's just hard.
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I only asked that because I truly do not understand. I really want you to explain what your Vorthos style is. I (and possibly others) do not understand what on earth you are talking about. Please explain what you mean.
And I will say I am truly sorry because your first response really did sound like a lot of the usual flak I get when my playgroup asks about my deck. I'm just starting to feel like my concepts are automatically lost on people.
I'm a law student who graduated from a fairly good college. I have studied all walks of literature and art. I can figure out what you are trying to do. To say, "They'll just scratch their heads..." in reference to me and other players is incredibly disrespectful. If you came here for advice and help that's one thing. If you just want to ***** and rant without taking any consideration into what has been given to you, then I don't think anyone here can or should try to help you.
Please know that I'm referring to my playgroup when I'm ranting. I don't like to assume much when it comes to online people (much less on a forum that's just about a game). These guys really do scratch their heads (figuratively at least) when I tell them what, how, and why I plan my decks the way I do.
Really, I want to respect you and your playstyle, but I and others do not understand what that is.
Okay there's a reason why I mentioned fanfiction in my original post. I make decks based on Planeswalker OCs I've conceptualized. (I've done similar things in Yu-Gi-Oh! too.) Fantasy is the reason why I like playing (DnD too so for those of you suggesting I do that, please know I currently play both). The deck you pulled up is one that tries to represent my author avatar.
I make decks that value an expression of such ideas over winning, not the other way around. If I lose using them, I've come to accept the fact that flavor and gameplay never see completely eye-to-eye in TCGs anyways. Hence, I don't care about winning.
What I do care is for is harassment because I choose to play that way. Again, that's my real problem. Heck, I think I pretty much spelled it out in my first post. My LGS is not Vorthos-friendly. I'm sick of the disrespect, win or lose. I'm sick of people assuming I'm just a Spike like them only in denial.
I don't even use the word Vorthos around them. They'll just scratch their heads. Look that may have sounded rude but so is saying "This is art?" and then put it next to "How does this Vorthos thing work?" I'm sorry but that sounds just like the guys I've been playing with. Forgive me for my rudeness, for my ranting, but I've had enough of trying to explain my decks to people like that (only to get a nice big Spike serving of "there is no art in Magic" no less).
This makes sense for your play group, but not for people replying to your post. Since you've never explained your decks or your style to anyone here, it doesn't make much sense to be sick of doing so. In addition, doing so would likely help move the conversation along and generate some more helpful advice. As a self-confessed Spike/Melvin, I am entirely ignorant about all things Vorthos, so I'd legitimately like for you to describe the style that you keep referencing.
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However, I officially declare that it's dominated by Spikes and Melvins. The very few guys I meet who try to understand the Vorthos mindset end up doing so very, VERY poorly. I've pretty much given up getting them to understand how I build my decks. (Especially after this weekend, when I showed them the list I planned for my Intet EDH deck.)
I don't really know where to start with how sucky this all is. First of all, these are the only people I can play with for miles. My brother is one of them (the fact that I hardly ever get along with him does not help). I'm the subject of trash talk and backstabbing because I concede too often and 'undermine' my deck.
In other words, I get flak for wanting to play one way and I can't do schtick about it. Secondly, I like writing fanfiction. I even got commissions from some of the more sympathetic players. The attitude I get from these Spikes is NOT helping my creativity.
Finally, when you consider recent events regarding Savor the Flavor, I can't help but feel like this entire game does not seem to support its flavor all too well. I may not have a right to say this because I haven't played for long, but I feel that my LGS is one fat indicator of this. I'm not trying to force anyone to play my way but is it too much to ask for a little respect? Their Johnny-Spike combo decks always have a high guarantee against my art decks. Why shouldn't I concede? You've won. Congrats. I don't see why I deserve getting dissed because I don't play to win or place flavor over mechanics. I'm FORCED to respect yours and yet you just use it as instrument to trash my tastes more? How is that fair!?
Troll warning,
( N_S )
Enter story (and keep in mind, this isn't to offend you, I'm trying to put out how the other parties likely see the situation for a bit of perspective)
So, we got this one guys at the shop, pretty decent kid. But playing EDH (based on previous posts, I assume this is the format primarily played) with him is such a chore. We try to have an interesting game, but he consistently shows up with the biggest pile of crap. Sometimes, I feel like he is trying to play the worst card possible in a given situation. He keeps trying to justify playing these bad cards by saying, "But I'm a Vorthos!". That's great and all, but most of the time, his cards lead to uninteresting game states that just bore us. On top of that, while I'm trying to think through a line of plays that sets me up for a better board state, he's jabbering on about some story he came up with. We usually end up trying to knock him out of the game quickly so that we can try to focus on playing better, and hope that he will see that some of his card choices aren't optimal. Instead, he whines that we used better cards to get him out of the game. He accuses us of backstabbing him, but really, we're just trying to remove the least interesting deck from the game so we can actually have a fun game. I'm not sure how to approach him and ask him to play better cards. On top of that, he keeps trying to sell us his stories.
End point of view story
Even if you're not actively trying to sell your stories, if your LGS is like most, by the time it goes through the grape vine a few times, people see it as you trying to sell it. I understand how frustrating it can be to be the only player of a specific brand at a LGS, when I've traveled to events before and sat down for a game of EDH with some guys at that LGS, I've been outright told I can't play a second game because my deck was too competitive at a LGS full of casuals. There is a reason I don't have an EDH deck any more, too many self imposed house rules wherever you go. Too competitive, too many counters, cards worth more than $10, you name the house rule, I've probably heard it somewhere. Perhaps the best advice I can offer, since you are in the minority at your LGS is to meet them on common ground. Do you have access to cards to make ONE of your decks more competitive? Meet them at their ground, which oddly seems to be considering themselves competitive at a casual format. In most cases, if you approach someone on their ground, where they feel most comfortable, they will respect you more. After knocking back a couple of games with your competitive deck, ask if they mind if you switch to something more casual. Don't say Vorthos, just casual. They probably won't mind, and since they've knocked back a couple games that are fun for them, they will be more receptive to your Vorthos decks. Don't push the "This is why my Vorthos deck is super cool" talk, if someone is curious on why you're running something, they will ask. Until you build up some "street cred" with them, just give them the Reader's Digest version of why you think it's cool. 15-20 second quick overview, max. If that interests them, they will ask more. Over time, with you meeting them on their "turf" with the competitive deck first, they'll start to see you as an equal. At the point, it'll be a lot easier to play more Vorthos stuff because they will know that they like you as a person instead of just being annoyed at the decks you play.
Odds of pulling any specific rare in 5th Edition: 1:133
So, on average, 1 JtMS every 2.222 boxes or 1 Bird of Paradise every 3.694 boxes. Yeah, I'll take my odds with Mythics, they are easier to get than old rares.
Want to support a LGS that finally branched into the selling online world? Send me a pm with your email for a $5 off coupon (usable on purchases of $10 or more) for a LGS that just recently got onto TCG player.
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Though, I must say, your story seems to have a more like...there's a bunch of boys are playing war, and you're the new guy.
And you come traipsing along, and want to join their game... you wanna play war TOO! But you want to be the... baker.
aleerpsoftware: "Just go on with what you're doing, keep shooting each other... and whenever you get tired, you can come into my shop in Paris, eat some biscotti and have a decaf macchiato!"
other kid: "You can be a bazooka guy!"
aleerpsoftware: "But I'm Vorthos, the French baker!"
other kid: "We're playing World War II!"
aleerpsoftware: "But part of World War II took place on the streets of Paris, during one of the most romantic periods in the 20th century! I am adding a lot to your game by fleshing out the flavor of the time period. I don't carry a gun."
other kid: "um... ok. *POW* I shot you! You have to lie there and not talk anymore... Hey guys, I shot Vorthos the baker!"
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No offense intended. Because if it was me playing war, I'd be fine with you playing the baker, or the planeswalker, just so long as you don't get in the line of fire, or wreck the game the rest of us are playing.
But the story feels like that to me. You want to talk about Vorthos and you're into fan-fic, and the other kids are really just trying to play a nice semi-competitive game.
To me it sounds like the little league baseball kid who is really not interested in the game everybody else is playing, and counting clouds in right field. Maybe this little league is not for you?
I agree with Kelnon that you first have to try playing by the LOCAL rules/styles, give it a chance, then maybe slowly introduce your ideas "Hey wanna try something different? Back in Michigan, we do it THIS way..."
Or just make multiple Vorthos decks and play against yourself while setting and creating the plot. Be your own storyteller.
So Pro I have an alpha Volcanic Island
I've considered this approach. But given their complete large egos and just sheer dislike they have for me that has gone beyond the game, I don't think I'll ever be given a chance to change anything. I'll try and make a competitive deck but I must say that I won't enjoy it as much. (I never did. Otherwise, I'd go back to playing Yu-Gi-Oh!.)
They're all narcissists (and they've admitted this themselves) so as much as I will try and give your advice a shot, I hope you don't mind expressing my unease that I'll just end up feeding their egos. Honestly, it's official. I've really had it said to me that "You want to win. Do deny it is to believe a big fat lie" or whatever egotistical, self-serving Spike BS jargon.
I really don't understand why it's so hard to believe that some people play for reasons outside of winning. Heck, there's only one other guy I know who at least sympathizes with the mentality and the flavor of his decks are still hard for me to digest.
I never wanted them to. It just so happens I have a narc for a brother who likes to backstab me and now he's made Melvin friends who generally dislike me. Sometimes I wonder if the real problem is there's only one LGS, one community here in my area that plays and they turn out to be the last player type I'd wanna play with (and vice-versa). Still, if I have to play with them and them with me, I could at least be given some respect. So far, the recent trash talk about me is forcing me to respect theirs but it just makes sick and I'm not sure I'm eager to give them the satisfaction.
I've done that on Cockatrice. Maybe I should just keep at it. It just really sucks that I'm the only Vorthos around.
Do you know a place around here that I can share my fanfiction? I mean, I know there's the category here but my fic's rated M. >_<;;
Maybe you're acting like a pompous jerk who thinks your way is superior. Ever thought of that?
They like playing the game the way they do. The above just shows your ego being the monumental one.
Forgive me if I fail to see you giving respect. Because nearly everything I've read above doesn't indicate any respect from you at all.
"Sometimes, the situation is outracing a threat, sometimes it's ignoring it, and sometimes it involves sideboarding in 4x Hope//Pray." --Doug Linn
Seems like an elegant solution to me.
Seriously look at this:
"I'm the subject of trash talk and backstabbing because I concede too often and 'undermine' my deck.
Why shouldn't I concede? You've won. Congrats."
- It drives me up a wall when people do not make an effort to play the game. I would feel like you are wasting my time if you did this to me. From a 3rd person perspective, it really seems like you are just a bad sport.
"They're all narcissists (and they've admitted this themselves)"
- These guys aren't any different from other Magic shops. They are just normal people. Judgments like these seem to project a feeling of superiority.
You also mentioned several times that you don't get along with your brother. I know it might be hard/impossible, but try to improve relations with him. I'm sure that he can help you fit in more than anyone.
Have you tried D&D? I think you would have a much better time playing that. (You might make a good DM)
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How does this Vorthos thing work? Are you trying to tell a story while playing?
Soldier Primer
Sig by ol MISAKA lo
My Trades
I think you've forgotten to bold this portion.
I don't act like a pompous jerk. I really do have a bunch of narcs who take the slightest offense for not playing things their way. I don't care about their combo decks. I don't care about losing. I'm not bitter about losing. I'm tired of having people assume that I'm just like them who think I'm drunk on winning. One guy even said I go crazy on the rare occasions that I do win.
Last time I checked, the only thing I feel after winning is relief. As, in my head-is-on-the-table-figuratively-passed-out relief.
Only because you haven't meet them? I wouldn't be ranting here if I wasn't fed up with the attitude I've been getting. I don't declare my way is the best way. I DO have people declare my way is the crappiest way. Without warranty. Everyone gangs up on it.
I've always got my back against the wall with these people.
Again, I wouldn't be dissing these people if there wasn't a line that hadn't been crossed. They can disagree with my style, with my emphasis on flavor over victory all the want.
But to backstab me on Facebook and turn the whole community against me?
Again, did ANY of you read what I just bolded? I don't care if they want to play this way or that way. The fact remains, I'm stuck with them and they're stuck with me because there's no other M:TG community for the next hundred miles. The sad thing is, I'm in the minority (as in one-person minority). The least I could get is some respect for my view and no whining because I don't play their way. I lose? Whatever. Your deck is obviously better. End of story. I'm not asking anybody to change their playstyle. Unfortunately, narcissists somehow translate that as the complete opposite.
I've tried that. Frankly, it only felt like I was lying to myself.
Ironically, these Spikes accuse me of lying to myself when I say I don't play to win. Projection much?
I've already resigned myself to the fact that this game (or pretty much a lot of TCGs) don't support flavor all too well. Hence, art decks tend to generally run badly against competitive ones. I realize that. I accept that. It's why I don't bother trying to win all the time. Why can't they? They don't like playing against my deck? Then they should finally come out in the open and declare that they're a competitive or at least a No-Vorthos-Allowed play group. (Unlike the so-called 'open and accepting' facade they put up.) If they don't want to prove that it's all a face, then they oughta be willing to accept that I don't play their way. Better yet, I'd rather we exchange styles. I play your way, then you play mine. The sad part is (with small thanks to my brother) I highly, HIGHLY doubt they'll ever want to play like a Vorthos.
Posts merged. -Viricide
If it's not fun then you need a break. Someone eariler said you should try D&D since you're into the lore of things this should be right up your alley.
Look at your deck:
http://magic.tcgplayer.com/db/deck.asp?deck_id=996391
How is this art? Cards in this deck do not make sense. What story are you telling with this deck? Would playing affinity/elves/merfolk be any different? Where does the Vorthos link happen? From what little research I've done Vorthos is primarily linked to writing outside the game/artwork. I'm really having trouble figuring out what you are not getting from the game.
I don't know what it is, but your arguments are the same ones that I've seen when people valiantly defend things like being a furry. Why are you trying to prove that your way is the right way? Does it matter? Why would it matter that the people you are playing are competitive? Magic is a game at its core. It is closer to poker than Game of Thrones.
I look at the groups like this:
Spike: win by any means necessary, play the best possible cards.
Johnny: win by the most interesting means possible; memorable wins are the ones most worth chasing.
Timmy: win by stomping people with a show of overwhelming force, generally winning with a huge creature or a huge bunch of creatures.
Vorthos: win while using cards that are linked through their artwork, whether it be a common artist or common art theme OR winning with cards that share a story arc and could actually coexist within the backstory of MTG.
Notice that every group wants to win. It is the way of winning that is the difference. Without having the details of the FB conversations and your ostracism from the local playgroup, I can't really comment further.
Infraction for spam and trolling. - Nai
Sorry but I don't like replying much to somebody who can't even grasp the basic Vorthos mindset. Furthermore comments like this...
...are moot because 1) I don't believe my way is the right way. 2) I'm the one trying to follow a live and let live mentality. They're not yet they try to make their playgroup look like it does. 3) I don't care how they play. I just wish they'd stop bemoaning the fact that I concede often and don't want to build my deck their way.
I know people say there are competitive Vorthos decks out there but these I find come too far and too few in between. They also tend to be expensive. Neither do I see myself playing them. The best you can say is that I play decks like that even if I can't see myself in them. Sure but that's still nothing compared to just playing with a deck I really like without people getting on my case with my losing/concede streak.
P.S.
I've already set my sights on my Intet deck so even if price weren't the case, I really can't afford to switch priorities right now.
I would say that you're just trolling us all, but your post history shows that you actually care about this.
My guess is that you are just "that guy" of the group.
If anybody seems narcissistic, it's you. If you really want things to be cool, I highly doubt that you've truly "burned your bridges". People who play MtG are usually pretty chill, and i doubt they'd hold a grudge about this stuff. If anything their opinion of you right now is probably just "a little odd" and "immature".
I highly doubt they give you enough thought to hate you.
I doubt they enjoy you being a pariah, because that's just a buzz kill.
You say you just don't like these people, but I highly doubt it, or you wouldn't be asking us this stuff.
Just relax a little and try to get along. You don't need the world to validate how unique you are.
And making friends is about making them individually. They're not just a "group". They're a bunch of unique individuals, and they're not all best friends. Get to know one or two of them and their good qualities, listen instead of pushing your "Vorthos-ness" on them. Try to maybe have a conversation that isn't all about YOU.
Everybody here is trying to help you, and I think almost everybody here is coming to the same conclusions. Try to listen. If you find yourself dismissing a lot of people this way, maybe you're the one with the problem.
I concede on rare occasion. That usually means its turn 8 and I still only have two lands and I'm holding castings costs of 4-5-6. Its a waste, I'm frustrated, lets move on to match 2 or 3.
But if you concede all the time, your taking a lot of enjoyment away from other people. Say I plop down Emrakul so you concede before I get to swing and enjoy the full effect of my card. Wheres the fun in that? If your doing it ALL the time I could understand why other people might not like to play against you. Quitting all the time essentially denies the other person of their earned satisfactory win. If you do it to people every other game its a really jerk move. Its like your getting your last stab in. Imma quit so you don't have the satisfaction of winning.
Granted, in tournament my opponents may concede as much as they like. But this isnt the situation.
As a player who really does like to win, and hates losing, I would hold no animosity toward you for playing casually, having a non-competitive deck or no real drive to win. Thats fine man. I like to make my decks fun too. I really do play FOR FUN. I like to win in fun, unique but effective ways on my own terms.
But if your gonna quit all the time or get mad alot ...? Especially if your giving ME a hard time for winning or the cards I played or how serious my deck is. Essentially, your blaming me for your deck and playstyle.
That probably why your having a hard time with it. If your going to play a fun casual deck, accept it, have fun and enjoy the game - don't get mad or hate on people if things don't go well. If the actual loss bothered you so much, that means you DO enjoy winning, or enjoy at least having a fighting chance - and you'd be happier with a stronger deck.
Oh cmon dude! Sheesh. If this is how your adressing your fellow MTG players in real life, would they want to play with you?
You must have been in the debate forum.
You need to make the distinguishment between people who are making comments because they are happy their deck is working and happy they are winning, or people who take personal pleasure in beating you and screwing your cards. I've rarely encountered the second while playing magic. I have encountered rude people in tournaments who have poor attitudes and make snide comments, but thats their problem. I really do enjoy that because it reaffirms I am doing well. I'm very accustomed to this because I play a lot of billiards. You meet a lot of people who make comments the entire game and try to get inside of your head, intimidate and discourage you.
My Buying Thread
Those are my reasons with the only difference being it just happens more often for me.
Okay first off, lemme clarify something. For some unexplainable reason, my playgroup is obsessed with EDH. Some of them have standard decks for stuff like tourneys but EDH is the only format encouraged and often sees play at my LGS.
And as such, I'm used to seeing stuff like Emrakul (although that's banned). However, you pull out one win-con on me, one hit, and that is what I'll only take before reshuffling. If I see it again in another game. I will reshuffle. You put down a Vorinclex and I (or anyone else) got no response for the next 3 turns, things might as well stop dragging out. I will reshuffle. See? My reasons are like yours. When I've seen an engine built up and I got no answers, what's the point? You've shown me how it works. New game.
I really, really, really don't understand why people here and offline assume my issue is losing. It's not. I don't care if lose. I try really hard to accept the fact that these guys play competitive. However, to backstab me, humiliate me, insult me, troll me whatever. All of that because I don't like to play decks like theirs. I ask you, how is that fair? How can I enjoy when I'm being harassed like that all because of my play style? It's gone so far that my own words are constantly distorted into criticisms of theirs.
Frankly, the only times when I've meditated on a loss, I ended up wasting my time when I should be doing something more important. I can't afford to do that any more, much less to please people who never had any respect for me or my playstyle to begin with.
I don't even use the word Vorthos around them. They'll just scratch their heads. Look that may have sounded rude but so is saying "This is art?" and then put it next to "How does this Vorthos thing work?" I'm sorry but that sounds just like the guys I've been playing with. Forgive me for my rudeness, for my ranting, but I've had enough of trying to explain my decks to people like that (only to get a nice big Spike serving of "there is no art in Magic" no less).
I have nothing against people who are happy with their decks. I have everything against people who go so far as to disrespect me as person just so I'd build mine like theirs and that my play style pisses them off.
That's my problem. It's not losing. It's not my deck. It's the fact that these people really can't learn to respect differences in game playing.
I only asked that because I truly do not understand. I really want you to explain what your Vorthos style is. I (and possibly others) do not understand what on earth you are talking about. Please explain what you mean.
I'm a law student who graduated from a fairly good college. I have studied all walks of literature and art. I can figure out what you are trying to do. To say, "They'll just scratch their heads..." in reference to me and other players is incredibly disrespectful. If you came here for advice and help that's one thing. If you just want to ***** and rant without taking any consideration into what has been given to you, then I don't think anyone here can or should try to help you.
Really, I want to respect you and your playstyle, but I and others do not understand what that is.
Hi! I play a fairly Vorthosian style, and might help here.
Short answer: We like the flavor of the game so much, it makes our decks for us. We like decks that share a central, storyline theme, or a story we make, or tribal in some cases.
Long answer:
Do you know how many Elesh Norn's I run? One. Because there is only one Elesh Norn. In fact, if I have mine in hand, and my opponent plays one, I will cast mine. Only, instead, what I see is this:
My opponent has just called Elesh Norn to his side, and I grin as I try to mimic his spell, and watch her fold in on herself as reality bends, trying to summon her in two places at once, and her body collapses in a heap while the opposing planeswalker looks shocked and distraught at the loss of his ally.
And that's when I begin casting her allies...all of which are White Phyrexians from the church fromthe Scars of Mirrodin block, and all of the cards that have Elesh Norn's name on them. ALL. OF. THEM.
I have a Rebecca Guay deck, that is only Rebecca Guay art. Was it hard to make/find this? Yep, incredibly. Was it worth it? To me, yes.
I have a green deck that is just all the cards based off Kamahl and the Kamahlite druids. It's more than 60 cards, but whatever, it works.
We don't necesarily care about winning, though some do, and I enjoy it myself, but we care that, when we play our deck, it seems to hold a flavorful theme.
If you think about it, any kind of tribal deck can be a little Vorthosian if you keep it strict. Like, R/U Delver is kind of like a mad scientist. Azami EDH is kind of like a wizard slowly going mad, unraveling his mind faster than he knows how to use it...
Most Vorthosians go there whole life without even knowing they're a Vorthos. Some, the unfortunate few, are so obsessed with it, they end up like Aleerp here, without a real place in the game, and slightly bitter because of it.
Leerp, you may need to take some time away from Magic. I did it when my "Kamahl's Bears" deck just stopped being fun for me. Now? I play Mono-White Elesh Norn, keep it totally flavorful, and still have a good time. It's possible to be a Vorthos and have fun, it's just hard.
Done by Rivenor of Miraculous Recovery signatures!
And I will say I am truly sorry because your first response really did sound like a lot of the usual flak I get when my playgroup asks about my deck. I'm just starting to feel like my concepts are automatically lost on people.
Please know that I'm referring to my playgroup when I'm ranting. I don't like to assume much when it comes to online people (much less on a forum that's just about a game). These guys really do scratch their heads (figuratively at least) when I tell them what, how, and why I plan my decks the way I do.
Okay there's a reason why I mentioned fanfiction in my original post. I make decks based on Planeswalker OCs I've conceptualized. (I've done similar things in Yu-Gi-Oh! too.) Fantasy is the reason why I like playing (DnD too so for those of you suggesting I do that, please know I currently play both). The deck you pulled up is one that tries to represent my author avatar.
I make decks that value an expression of such ideas over winning, not the other way around. If I lose using them, I've come to accept the fact that flavor and gameplay never see completely eye-to-eye in TCGs anyways. Hence, I don't care about winning.
What I do care is for is harassment because I choose to play that way. Again, that's my real problem. Heck, I think I pretty much spelled it out in my first post. My LGS is not Vorthos-friendly. I'm sick of the disrespect, win or lose. I'm sick of people assuming I'm just a Spike like them only in denial.
This makes sense for your play group, but not for people replying to your post. Since you've never explained your decks or your style to anyone here, it doesn't make much sense to be sick of doing so. In addition, doing so would likely help move the conversation along and generate some more helpful advice. As a self-confessed Spike/Melvin, I am entirely ignorant about all things Vorthos, so I'd legitimately like for you to describe the style that you keep referencing.