No, the problem is you were cheating on your girlfriend and to this day you still haven't admitted to being wrong, or demonstrated any understanding of why she might be upset, or any sign that you're going to stop.
Please read my previous post. Some of the comments were not directed at you, but it answers this affirmation.
End the relationship now. Since she's not going to do it, do it for her. Then she can move on to a relationship that has the remotest potential of working.
I think our understanding of 'working' differs too. This sunday is our 6years anniversary.
I think our understanding of 'working' differs too. This sunday is our 6years anniversary.
Congratulations! But don't mistake longevity for stability: there are a million reasons that a relationship stays together, and only a handful of those reasons are good ones. Please don't take this as a slight where I'm insinuating that you're only able to retain this relationship because of that prison cage you had installed, I'm really not, but it also can't be used for evidence that you're relationship is "good." Just sayin.
Congratulations! But don't mistake longevity for stability: there are a million reasons that a relationship stays together, and only a handful of those reasons are good ones. Please don't take this as a slight where I'm insinuating that you're only able to retain this relationship because of that prison cage you had installed, I'm really not, but it also can't be used for evidence that you're relationship is "good." Just sayin.
Word. I'm sure you two are Jim Dandy in some areas, but at least one other clearly needs some remodeling.
Highroller, what you're failing to understand is that it is cheating in your eyes, but it may not be cheating to other people.
Having sex with other people is the definition of cheating.
I think our understanding of 'working' differs too. This sunday is our 6years anniversary.
So now the girl you've been cheating on is the girl you've been dating for six years, and you maintained a camsite account during that time without any understanding as to how this might hurt her, and when you get busted for it you react both with no remorse and with surprise that she'd be upset by this?
Then you try to turn it back on her by saying she's overreacting or doesn't understand how you feel?
How are you not understanding that every post you make only makes you look worse? Further, how insecure must this girl be to go out with you for that long, experience this, and then continue dating you?
Wow reading through this thread I am kind of surprised.
In the opening statement it doesn't sound like the OP did anything wrong.
I mean everyone (obvious over-exaggeration) watches porn right?
Some people are just more sensitive than others.
I think that the best course of action, like a lot of posters said, is to is to just apologize to your girlfriend (because I feel that without admitting that your sorry you will never get to move on...). I just want you to know that what you did isn't really something that is unnatural or different, but that your girlfriend is the exception and you should realize if this relationship continues, you can expect to need to be more sensitive about these types of things. Like they say "love is crazy."
Good luck man.
How are you not understanding that every post you make only makes you look worse? Further, how insecure must this girl be to go out with you for that long, experience this, and then continue dating you?
How are you not understanding that I don't give a crap about how you perceive me? My problem is solved, the only reason I still come here is because I like the debate. But I'm finding it hard for you to accept that this subject is very particular - we differ about what "cheating" consists. If we can't get past that there's no debate, thus no reason for me come back to this thread.
@IRRanger: Thanks for the input, man. We're fine now... we celebrated our 6years yesterday and it was great
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The reason highroller doesn't understand is because there is a factual definition of cheating in a relationship, how you view it is irrelevant.
If you were absolutely convinced that what the world sees as a square was a triangle to you that doesn't stop it from being a square it just alters how you perceive it.
Highroller is simply stating that under the clearly defined definition of a monogamous relationship , you are/were cheating on your girlfriend.
Whether you see this differently or have since convinced/manipulated/debated with your gf to be ok (though I very much doubt she is inwardly) is up to you but you came to this thread asking if what you did was cheating and the answer is yes.
You cannot alter definitions to your own perceptions any more than you can make that square a triangle. You might be happy thinking your problem is solved and it doesn't matter but the deep seated issues that caused your infidelity will always be there unless you face them properly instead of deceiving not only your GF but also your self.
Wait, what? Is there a clearly defined definition of a monogamous relationship? As best I can get monogamy refers to someone only having one sexual partner at a time.
And as far as I can tell (or going by Wikipedia) sex is the process by which there is a physical mixing of genetic traits between one or more individuals.
So unless he actually had sex, didn't he not cheat under the "clearly defined definition of monogamy?"
>>Also, you're welcome Tranquillo. I hope you guys the best.
Wait, what? Is there a clearly defined definition of a monogamous relationship? As best I can get monogamy refers to someone only having one sexual partner at a time.
And as far as I can tell (or going by Wikipedia) sex is the process by which there is a physical mixing of genetic traits between one or more individuals.
So unless he actually had sex, didn't he not cheat under the "clearly defined definition of monogamy?"
By that definition of sex, half of the pornos in the world don't actually have sex in them, and using a condom every time means you're a virgin.
By that definition of sex, half of the pornos in the world don't actually have sex in them, and using a condom every time means you're a virgin.
Yeah, like I said, I don't know if their is a strict definition for cheating. I just combined the definitions for monogamy and sex. I didn't come up with a separate definition for cheating. I guess under the strict definition of sex then no, doing it with a condom on might not be sex. (I know this goes against conventional decency but what would be a more inclusive definition of sex?)
I just don't understand how there would be a strict definition for cheating along the lines of "this is a square and that is a triangle." It just depends on how sensitive the other person is.
Yeah, like I said, I don't know if their is a strict definition for cheating. I just combined the definitions for monogamy and sex. I didn't come up with a separate definition for cheating. I guess under the strict definition of sex then no, doing it with a condom on might not be sex. (I know this goes against conventional decency but what would be a more inclusive definition of sex?)
I just don't understand how there would be a strict definition for cheating along the lines of "this is a square and that is a triangle." It just depends on how sensitive the other person is.
And I'm pretty sure you're 100% right.
Which puts me in an interesting position: see, I don't actually think that this thread is about cybersex, or cheating. I think it's about trust. If you don't tell your GF that you're using a cam site, she's probably going to be upset about your silence more than anything else, and the fact that you're trying to hide it from her is just dodgy as hell, like you already knew she would say no so you didn't even bring it up and you could claim ignorance after you're caught.
But that's not the issue of the OP, so....
...
I'm pretty sure you're 100% right. The only way to find out if your partner thinks you're cheating on them is to ask them... preferably before you start doing it.
The definition of creating is so nebulous these days, with open relationships, swinging and other such subcultures becoming more and more socially acceptable, that arguing over it is pointless. Different people have different definitions of cheating. It's not an objective thing.
The fact is, you did something which your SO is not okay with. From her perspective, it's cheating, so for the purposes of your relationship, it's cheating. You have two options:
1. Accept her definition, apologize, clarify, and move on, with the understanding that you need to stop this behavior for the duration of the relationship.
or
2. Decline to accept her definition, and break up.
It's honestly that simple. It doesn't matter if her definition matches yours, all that matters is what you can agree on for the purposes of your relationship.
I'm not even going to give you my thoughts on weather or not it is cheating, because what I think doesn't matter in this situation. Only your opinion and her opinion matters.
This is exactly what the case is in every relationship these days. In a world where different couples view cheating differently then the definition is not 100% it varies from relationship to relationship.
I mean some girls would get pissed if they caught their boyfriend even looking at a porn site and call that cheating. Some girls are far more open to that activity and they don't have a problem with it. Some girls don't care if their boyfriend goes off to a strip club as long as he behaves himself.
To pretend that there is still some "100% accurate definition" of cheating is a joke seriously.
I think the only one that holds true for 95% of relationships or higher is if you have any genitalia contact then its cheating especially if one party doesn't know about it beforehand.
Of course you did. You made an account to simulate sex acts with girls to fulfill your desires to cheat on your partner. You kept this hidden from her without her knowing and never once in your six years of dating her brought up the fact that you were having sex with strangers online.
And then when she became upset by this, you couldn't possibly understand why? After six years of being with her?!
I should take the moment to ask this, just to be thorough: Is your relationship with your girlfriend legal? I ask because at least one of you has to still be in High School. It's the only possible justification I can think of as to how you could possibly still be this immature and how she could possibly still be naive enough to date you.
How are you not understanding that I don't give a crap about how you perceive me?
Of course you give a crap how you're perceived. That's why you're here. That's why you're still here, still trying to defend yourself, still trying to justify your actions. Because you still think you're the one that matters. You still think that this is all about you.
It's the same mindset that lead to you creating this thread in the first place. The thread title is complete bull**** and we all know it. You're not here to ask "Is Cybersex cheating?" If you were genuinely asking this question, you wouldn't be spending this much time and effort arguing that what you were doing wasn't cheating.
No, you're here for one simple reason: to whine about your girlfriend. You got busted for going on a camsite, and your girlfriend told you to stop having sex with other women online. And like a child, you got angry that your toy was taken away from you, and proceeded to, how predictable, seek gratification from anonymous strangers online, only this time, instead of sexual gratification, the gratification of having people say that what you did wasn't wrong and comfort you that she was over-reacting. You want us to tell you that you have the right to continue going on camsites and cheating on your girlfriend, because you still think this is about you.
It's the same mindset that got you in this situation in the first place, isn't it? You made an account on a camsex site when you were still dating your girlfriend, and never once in the six years you were dating her did you ever ask what her thoughts on bringing other people into the relationship were. Never once did you ask if this is something that would upset her. Never once did you tell her that you had an account on a camsite.
And then, six years into your relationship, you get caught and then you react with surprise because you thought it would be ok?
No, we're not that stupid, so of course we're not going to buy that. Of course you knew it wasn't ok with her. If you thought it was perfectly fine, you'd have brought it up in conversation at some point.
I will agree that you probably didn't give much thought as to her feelings at all, but it's very clear you knew her feelings would be hurt if she found out. Yet you did it anyway. Because you thought it was all about you.
Which is the same thing you are still thinking now. You've yet to demonstrate any empathy towards this girl or have any concern for your breach of trust.
I'll just be candid with you right now: If I hated this girl, I mean hated her, I would tell you that you didn't do anything wrong.
I'm not doing that. I'm telling you the truth, which is that you have someone who has been with you for six years, and after finding out you secretly created a web account on a sex site with the express purpose of cheating on her for goodness knows how long, is still willing to be with you.
You have absolutely no idea what it is that you have. And we know this to be true, because you're still here on the thread you made to complain about your girlfriend feeling upset because you cheated on her.
My problem is solved, the only reason I still come here is because I like the debate.
This is not about you! This is not your problem! This is about HER, and you are her problem!
You haven't learned anything on this thread, because you still think this is about you. You still think that the issue is your girlfriend might leave you.
When in fact the problem is hers, and it's the fact that she has every reason to leave you.
That is the problem, and for you to still not understand that proves you haven't learned anything on this thread.
so if your girlfriend found out you made this thread discussing and asking about this whole issue... what might her reaction to it be? disturbed? not give a ****? confused? etc?
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so if your girlfriend found out you made this thread discussing and asking about this whole issue... what might her reaction to it be? disturbed? not give a ****? confused? etc?
She'd probably be pissed about me sharing our issues with strangers.
@Highroller: You assume too much. I wonder why do you keep coming back to this thread if I'm that big of a jerk and there's nothing you can do.
@Belgareth: I have a different point of view myself.
If your in a monogamous relationship then your partner should be the only person you want to even think about sex with.
No, in a monogamous relationship your partner should be the only person you have sex with - and that's it. Sexual drive is unpredictable, you can't control what you want, you can only control what you do.
Yes probably a huge proportion of the world may watch porn or think about sleeping with their secretary or whatever , but that doesn't mean they are not cheating
Yes, it does. They may think about sleeping their secretary or whatever, but as long as they don't do so, they're not cheating. Maybe the guy has a crush on his secretary but he loves his wife. He'll only make a move on another woman if his love isn't strong enough to refrain him from doing that.
No, in a monogamous relationship your partner should be the only person you have sex with - and that's it. Sexual drive is unpredictable, you can't control what you want, you can only control what you do.
See, now this is an interesting statement. It's like pure, undiluted Id. Desire is a powerful force, and you're probably right, you'll never be fully able to control it, but you're also wrong when you say it's unpredictable: you will always desire everything, and it doesn't get any more predictable than that. If you don't try to control it, it will turn you into a babbling, obsessed maniac. Maybe not outwardly, you're also right when you say there's a difference between "want to do" and "do," but inwardly, it will consume you.
...jeez, sorry for the speech, I just got done watching the entire extended versions of the Lord of the Rings, all three of them, it's probably messing with my brain a bit.
Point is, it's not like Belgareth and Highroller don't have to deal with this sort of stuff too. While I, of course, can't speak for either of them, I'd find it highly questionable if either of them claimed to have fully eliminated these desires in their own lives, and I know I can't. But just because you can't kill desire doesn't mean you can't subdue it either. If you think that your personal freedom is being infringed so badly by this relationship, it's simply not a good sign; if you're not willing to stop defending the base desires of the flesh to be with this girl, then you probably need to stop being in that relationship, otherwise it makes you look like you're just keeping her around because she's convenient. Vice versa, emphasis on the "vice", if you do value your relationship why do you keep saying that you want to find pleasure elsewhere, keep defending silly girls willing to show you their boobs on a webcam? Is fun-time-porno really so important you're willing to turn it into a battleground between personal responsibility and personal freedom, between "you" vs. "her"? Is it really so, well, Precious?
Yes, it does. They may think about sleeping their secretary or whatever, but as long as they don't do so, they're not cheating. Maybe the guy has a crush on his secretary but he loves his wife. He'll only make a move on another woman if his love isn't strong enough to refrain him from doing that.
Thinking is different from doing.
I disagree. There is, obviously, a technical difference between thinking and doing. But, the way a person thinks is just as essential to a healthy relationship as how they act.
I've been married almost four years now. If my wife were to go out, and in a moment of drunken stupidity have a one-night stand but felt remorseful about it, I'd be hurt. But, I could get over that.
If she confessed to me that she had fallen in love with another man, even if she hadn't done anything physical about it, that would be much harder to deal with.
It is pretty established now, even by modern psychology, that emotional intimacy (without sex) with someone other than your partner, is just as and sometimes more damaging than physically cheating.
That said, I still fail to understand how you feel what you did wasn't a sexual act with another person, but that's a topic that's been beaten into the ground.
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Your girlfriend sounds young and incredibly insecure. Unfortunately for you, she is eventually going to meet a confidant of the opposite sex, either through school or work, someone that she has to see every day, and after she starts telling about your horrible tendencies as a boyfriend it will be simple for the new guy to take advantage of her depression.
Since it's too late to save the relationship (which sadly for her has 2-3 years left I'd guess), I won't tell you how to fix things, but instead just remind you of where you went wrong. 1) You casual mention that she routinely goes through your internet history. Poor girl. 2) Just because guys watch porn doesn't mean their girlfriends want to be reminded of it. Despite upsetting her multiple times you not only didn't make an effort to hide your masturbation, you escalated your habits. 3) You partake in internet activities that guys in good relationships don't strive towards. Instead of sticking with porn like a normal guy, you needed a personal experience. Despite not literally cheating you've shown tremendously odd behavior for a guy with access to real sex daily or weekly. Sounds like you're addicted to pornography, which is sad for a young man. 4) When she gets sad, you get mad. You make her feel bad about herself when she is upset with you. A common tactic of an emasculated boyfriend.
These aren't things she will talk to her family about because its embarrassing. So when someone finally comes along that is willing to listen, she'll be the easiest hook-up a guys like to get. Then you will make her feel bad about cheating on you and the relationship will end.
Until then I hope you enjoy your mental strangehold on a depressed and naive young woman. I've seen it a thousand times and there is zero percent chance of reconcilation with the signs she has shown. Congrats on the "oh so long" six years, that's a normal lifespan for this type of dying star. Plus you get to enjoy your blatant and creepy internet sex all the while and make your partner hate herself each time she catches you. Yes, I'm sure she was just as happy as you during that six year celebration.
Yeah, I'm just going to go ahead and agree with the sentiment that what you did is cheating. I mean, what you describe is the kind of thing I've done when my relationships have been forced to go long distance. That is, have cybersex with my partner, not some random person I don't know the name of. Not being emotionally close (or hell in your case, even acquainted) with the girl doesn't suddenly make it not cheating.
Tranquilo, you responded to all the wrong parts of Belgareth's post. He can and should operate on whatever weird bullhooie works for him. I agree parts of his post look pretty ****ed up, but it's clear you seem the same way to him. That's fine, you're both right. Here's the rub though, you're right to think you weren't cheating AND your girlfriend is right to think you were. Let me say that again. She is not in the wrong at all.
Don't play bizarro Highroller and refuse to see things from her point of view. Her point of view is a fine and reasonable one to hold from everything you've said here. If you want to fix this, open up, doesn't matter if it's hard to talk. That's a bad sign in itself. Learn to talk to her, actually talk to her, about you know, you. If you don't, then Madding's post seems pretty spot on. If you do, you'll either end it sooner or figure out you have more in common than you realized.
See, now this is an interesting statement. It's like pure, undiluted Id. Desire is a powerful force, and you're probably right, you'll never be fully able to control it, but you're also wrong when you say it's unpredictable: you will always desire everything, and it doesn't get any more predictable than that. If you don't try to control it, it will turn you into a babbling, obsessed maniac. Maybe not outwardly, you're also right when you say there's a difference between "want to do" and "do," but inwardly, it will consume you.
Sure. But we do that all the time and I don't really have a problem with it. If I could I would have sex all the women on the planet. It happens that I have met a woman whose personality and goals matches my own. I would have other women if she was okay with it, but that's not the case, and that's the reason I don't.
Is fun-time-porno really so important you're willing to turn it into a battleground between personal responsibility and personal freedom, between "you" vs. "her"? Is it really so, well, Precious?
I'm not turning it into a battleground. If you see my previous posts, I have already apologized to her and gave up cybersexing.
@Madding: Thanks for the input. You have made a couple of wrong assumptions, but I see what you mean. When you say "maybe she'll meet a better person", I totally agree, but aren't we all prone to that? I'm almost going off-topic, but the way I see it, relationship dynamics are like that. There's always someone more fitting.
I disagree on the "creepy" part, though.
@Lenus_Altair: Curiously enough, I have never had cybersex with my girlfriend.
@Redwood: Thanks man, you've been the most reasonable person to talk to here. I don't think I'm refusing to see things from her point of view. Do you think that? I have already acknowledged (to her, and in this thread more then once), that she has the right to be mad (by her own standards!). Her point of view is reasonable - as most people would be - to expect your partner to be faithful. The question I've brought up is only whether cybersex was cheating, but people start making all weird assumptions about mine or hers personality which I find oddly funny.
It seems to me that people are very platonic about their relationships. There is no such thing as a soul mate, no two people think the same. People put up with very different situations for the benefit of their partners. If I'm being monogamous, it's because she wants me to be. I can't help my desire for other women, but I can help not making a pass at them.
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@Highroller: You assume too much. I wonder why do you keep coming back to this thread if I'm that big of a jerk and there's nothing you can do.
Because you made a thread hoping that you could get people to rally around and be understanding to you and sympathize with you and tell you that you weren't so bad.
But no, that's not going to happen. You're going to get the truth. Because you should have someone tell you point blank how terrible of a boyfriend you're being.
Because this girl deserves better.
Because you're breaking her heart and if you had any empathy at all you wouldn't still be dating her because you obviously don't care about her.
Because I believe she must have self-esteem issues not to have dumped your cheating ass and I feel sorry for her.
Let this talk: you're still here, still trying to defend yourself. People who are genuinely sorry don't defend themselves for six pages. People who legitimately want to understand a situation don't argue for six pages.
Yes, it does. They may think about sleeping their secretary or whatever, but as long as they don't do so, they're not cheating. Maybe the guy has a crush on his secretary but he loves his wife. He'll only make a move on another woman if his love isn't strong enough to refrain him from doing that.
And guess what? You made a move on another woman.
Having a crush on a secretary is not the same as having an affair with a secretary.
My girlfriend got really mad at me because she found out I have an account on a cam site. I left a message to someone on the site, she found out and now she's disappointed and feels like I cheated on her.
Is she being too rough on me? The message sounded like I wanted to meet the girl, but I was just messing around.
If there's excessive or inappropriate physical/sexual/emotional intimacy, that's cheating, to me.
'Messing around', 'I was just messing around'. Too many girls hear that.
I don't know exactly how you guys are doing it, the relationship thing, but this could be her overreacting because -- because it's expedient to say so but probably grossly inaccurate or imprecise -- she's a wacko with issues or you really did cross a line. Either way, you guys need to work on trust and communication. Maybe it's time to start setting ground rules and/or domestication.
Edit:
She'd probably be pissed about me sharing our issues with strangers.
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Highroller, what you're failing to understand is that it is cheating in your eyes, but it may not be cheating to other people.
Please read my previous post. Some of the comments were not directed at you, but it answers this affirmation.
I think our understanding of 'working' differs too. This sunday is our 6years anniversary.
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Congratulations! But don't mistake longevity for stability: there are a million reasons that a relationship stays together, and only a handful of those reasons are good ones. Please don't take this as a slight where I'm insinuating that you're only able to retain this relationship because of that prison cage you had installed, I'm really not, but it also can't be used for evidence that you're relationship is "good." Just sayin.
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Having sex with other people is the definition of cheating.
So now the girl you've been cheating on is the girl you've been dating for six years, and you maintained a camsite account during that time without any understanding as to how this might hurt her, and when you get busted for it you react both with no remorse and with surprise that she'd be upset by this?
Then you try to turn it back on her by saying she's overreacting or doesn't understand how you feel?
How are you not understanding that every post you make only makes you look worse? Further, how insecure must this girl be to go out with you for that long, experience this, and then continue dating you?
In the opening statement it doesn't sound like the OP did anything wrong.
I mean everyone (obvious over-exaggeration) watches porn right?
Some people are just more sensitive than others.
I think that the best course of action, like a lot of posters said, is to is to just apologize to your girlfriend (because I feel that without admitting that your sorry you will never get to move on...). I just want you to know that what you did isn't really something that is unnatural or different, but that your girlfriend is the exception and you should realize if this relationship continues, you can expect to need to be more sensitive about these types of things. Like they say "love is crazy."
Good luck man.
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Except I didn't.
How are you not understanding that I don't give a crap about how you perceive me? My problem is solved, the only reason I still come here is because I like the debate. But I'm finding it hard for you to accept that this subject is very particular - we differ about what "cheating" consists. If we can't get past that there's no debate, thus no reason for me come back to this thread.
@IRRanger: Thanks for the input, man. We're fine now... we celebrated our 6years yesterday and it was great
Wait, what? Is there a clearly defined definition of a monogamous relationship? As best I can get monogamy refers to someone only having one sexual partner at a time.
And as far as I can tell (or going by Wikipedia) sex is the process by which there is a physical mixing of genetic traits between one or more individuals.
So unless he actually had sex, didn't he not cheat under the "clearly defined definition of monogamy?"
>>Also, you're welcome Tranquillo. I hope you guys the best.
Thanks to Rivenor @ //forums.mtgsalvation.com/showthread.php?t=329663"/"> Miraculous Recovery for the Sig!
By that definition of sex, half of the pornos in the world don't actually have sex in them, and using a condom every time means you're a virgin.
Yeah, like I said, I don't know if their is a strict definition for cheating. I just combined the definitions for monogamy and sex. I didn't come up with a separate definition for cheating. I guess under the strict definition of sex then no, doing it with a condom on might not be sex. (I know this goes against conventional decency but what would be a more inclusive definition of sex?)
I just don't understand how there would be a strict definition for cheating along the lines of "this is a square and that is a triangle." It just depends on how sensitive the other person is.
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And I'm pretty sure you're 100% right.
Which puts me in an interesting position: see, I don't actually think that this thread is about cybersex, or cheating. I think it's about trust. If you don't tell your GF that you're using a cam site, she's probably going to be upset about your silence more than anything else, and the fact that you're trying to hide it from her is just dodgy as hell, like you already knew she would say no so you didn't even bring it up and you could claim ignorance after you're caught.
But that's not the issue of the OP, so....
...
I'm pretty sure you're 100% right. The only way to find out if your partner thinks you're cheating on them is to ask them... preferably before you start doing it.
This is exactly what the case is in every relationship these days. In a world where different couples view cheating differently then the definition is not 100% it varies from relationship to relationship.
I mean some girls would get pissed if they caught their boyfriend even looking at a porn site and call that cheating. Some girls are far more open to that activity and they don't have a problem with it. Some girls don't care if their boyfriend goes off to a strip club as long as he behaves himself.
To pretend that there is still some "100% accurate definition" of cheating is a joke seriously.
I think the only one that holds true for 95% of relationships or higher is if you have any genitalia contact then its cheating especially if one party doesn't know about it beforehand.
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Of course you did. You made an account to simulate sex acts with girls to fulfill your desires to cheat on your partner. You kept this hidden from her without her knowing and never once in your six years of dating her brought up the fact that you were having sex with strangers online.
And then when she became upset by this, you couldn't possibly understand why? After six years of being with her?!
I should take the moment to ask this, just to be thorough: Is your relationship with your girlfriend legal? I ask because at least one of you has to still be in High School. It's the only possible justification I can think of as to how you could possibly still be this immature and how she could possibly still be naive enough to date you.
Of course you give a crap how you're perceived. That's why you're here. That's why you're still here, still trying to defend yourself, still trying to justify your actions. Because you still think you're the one that matters. You still think that this is all about you.
It's the same mindset that lead to you creating this thread in the first place. The thread title is complete bull**** and we all know it. You're not here to ask "Is Cybersex cheating?" If you were genuinely asking this question, you wouldn't be spending this much time and effort arguing that what you were doing wasn't cheating.
No, you're here for one simple reason: to whine about your girlfriend. You got busted for going on a camsite, and your girlfriend told you to stop having sex with other women online. And like a child, you got angry that your toy was taken away from you, and proceeded to, how predictable, seek gratification from anonymous strangers online, only this time, instead of sexual gratification, the gratification of having people say that what you did wasn't wrong and comfort you that she was over-reacting. You want us to tell you that you have the right to continue going on camsites and cheating on your girlfriend, because you still think this is about you.
It's the same mindset that got you in this situation in the first place, isn't it? You made an account on a camsex site when you were still dating your girlfriend, and never once in the six years you were dating her did you ever ask what her thoughts on bringing other people into the relationship were. Never once did you ask if this is something that would upset her. Never once did you tell her that you had an account on a camsite.
And then, six years into your relationship, you get caught and then you react with surprise because you thought it would be ok?
No, we're not that stupid, so of course we're not going to buy that. Of course you knew it wasn't ok with her. If you thought it was perfectly fine, you'd have brought it up in conversation at some point.
I will agree that you probably didn't give much thought as to her feelings at all, but it's very clear you knew her feelings would be hurt if she found out. Yet you did it anyway. Because you thought it was all about you.
Which is the same thing you are still thinking now. You've yet to demonstrate any empathy towards this girl or have any concern for your breach of trust.
I'll just be candid with you right now: If I hated this girl, I mean hated her, I would tell you that you didn't do anything wrong.
I'm not doing that. I'm telling you the truth, which is that you have someone who has been with you for six years, and after finding out you secretly created a web account on a sex site with the express purpose of cheating on her for goodness knows how long, is still willing to be with you.
You have absolutely no idea what it is that you have. And we know this to be true, because you're still here on the thread you made to complain about your girlfriend feeling upset because you cheated on her.
This is not about you! This is not your problem! This is about HER, and you are her problem!
You haven't learned anything on this thread, because you still think this is about you. You still think that the issue is your girlfriend might leave you.
When in fact the problem is hers, and it's the fact that she has every reason to leave you.
That is the problem, and for you to still not understand that proves you haven't learned anything on this thread.
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She'd probably be pissed about me sharing our issues with strangers.
@Highroller: You assume too much. I wonder why do you keep coming back to this thread if I'm that big of a jerk and there's nothing you can do.
@Belgareth: I have a different point of view myself.
No, in a monogamous relationship your partner should be the only person you have sex with - and that's it. Sexual drive is unpredictable, you can't control what you want, you can only control what you do.
Yes, it does. They may think about sleeping their secretary or whatever, but as long as they don't do so, they're not cheating. Maybe the guy has a crush on his secretary but he loves his wife. He'll only make a move on another woman if his love isn't strong enough to refrain him from doing that.
Thinking is different from doing.
See, now this is an interesting statement. It's like pure, undiluted Id. Desire is a powerful force, and you're probably right, you'll never be fully able to control it, but you're also wrong when you say it's unpredictable: you will always desire everything, and it doesn't get any more predictable than that. If you don't try to control it, it will turn you into a babbling, obsessed maniac. Maybe not outwardly, you're also right when you say there's a difference between "want to do" and "do," but inwardly, it will consume you.
...jeez, sorry for the speech, I just got done watching the entire extended versions of the Lord of the Rings, all three of them, it's probably messing with my brain a bit.
Point is, it's not like Belgareth and Highroller don't have to deal with this sort of stuff too. While I, of course, can't speak for either of them, I'd find it highly questionable if either of them claimed to have fully eliminated these desires in their own lives, and I know I can't. But just because you can't kill desire doesn't mean you can't subdue it either. If you think that your personal freedom is being infringed so badly by this relationship, it's simply not a good sign; if you're not willing to stop defending the base desires of the flesh to be with this girl, then you probably need to stop being in that relationship, otherwise it makes you look like you're just keeping her around because she's convenient. Vice versa, emphasis on the "vice", if you do value your relationship why do you keep saying that you want to find pleasure elsewhere, keep defending silly girls willing to show you their boobs on a webcam? Is fun-time-porno really so important you're willing to turn it into a battleground between personal responsibility and personal freedom, between "you" vs. "her"? Is it really so, well,
Precious?
I disagree. There is, obviously, a technical difference between thinking and doing. But, the way a person thinks is just as essential to a healthy relationship as how they act.
I've been married almost four years now. If my wife were to go out, and in a moment of drunken stupidity have a one-night stand but felt remorseful about it, I'd be hurt. But, I could get over that.
If she confessed to me that she had fallen in love with another man, even if she hadn't done anything physical about it, that would be much harder to deal with.
It is pretty established now, even by modern psychology, that emotional intimacy (without sex) with someone other than your partner, is just as and sometimes more damaging than physically cheating.
http://psychcentral.com/blog/archives/2009/04/11/12-ways-to-recover-from-an-emotional-affair/
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Emotional_affair
That said, I still fail to understand how you feel what you did wasn't a sexual act with another person, but that's a topic that's been beaten into the ground.
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Since it's too late to save the relationship (which sadly for her has 2-3 years left I'd guess), I won't tell you how to fix things, but instead just remind you of where you went wrong. 1) You casual mention that she routinely goes through your internet history. Poor girl. 2) Just because guys watch porn doesn't mean their girlfriends want to be reminded of it. Despite upsetting her multiple times you not only didn't make an effort to hide your masturbation, you escalated your habits. 3) You partake in internet activities that guys in good relationships don't strive towards. Instead of sticking with porn like a normal guy, you needed a personal experience. Despite not literally cheating you've shown tremendously odd behavior for a guy with access to real sex daily or weekly. Sounds like you're addicted to pornography, which is sad for a young man. 4) When she gets sad, you get mad. You make her feel bad about herself when she is upset with you. A common tactic of an emasculated boyfriend.
These aren't things she will talk to her family about because its embarrassing. So when someone finally comes along that is willing to listen, she'll be the easiest hook-up a guys like to get. Then you will make her feel bad about cheating on you and the relationship will end.
Until then I hope you enjoy your mental strangehold on a depressed and naive young woman. I've seen it a thousand times and there is zero percent chance of reconcilation with the signs she has shown. Congrats on the "oh so long" six years, that's a normal lifespan for this type of dying star. Plus you get to enjoy your blatant and creepy internet sex all the while and make your partner hate herself each time she catches you. Yes, I'm sure she was just as happy as you during that six year celebration.
Don't play bizarro Highroller and refuse to see things from her point of view. Her point of view is a fine and reasonable one to hold from everything you've said here. If you want to fix this, open up, doesn't matter if it's hard to talk. That's a bad sign in itself. Learn to talk to her, actually talk to her, about you know, you. If you don't, then Madding's post seems pretty spot on. If you do, you'll either end it sooner or figure out you have more in common than you realized.
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Sure. But we do that all the time and I don't really have a problem with it. If I could I would have sex all the women on the planet. It happens that I have met a woman whose personality and goals matches my own. I would have other women if she was okay with it, but that's not the case, and that's the reason I don't.
I'm not turning it into a battleground. If you see my previous posts, I have already apologized to her and gave up cybersexing.
@Madding: Thanks for the input. You have made a couple of wrong assumptions, but I see what you mean. When you say "maybe she'll meet a better person", I totally agree, but aren't we all prone to that? I'm almost going off-topic, but the way I see it, relationship dynamics are like that. There's always someone more fitting.
I disagree on the "creepy" part, though.
@Lenus_Altair: Curiously enough, I have never had cybersex with my girlfriend.
@Redwood: Thanks man, you've been the most reasonable person to talk to here. I don't think I'm refusing to see things from her point of view. Do you think that? I have already acknowledged (to her, and in this thread more then once), that she has the right to be mad (by her own standards!). Her point of view is reasonable - as most people would be - to expect your partner to be faithful. The question I've brought up is only whether cybersex was cheating, but people start making all weird assumptions about mine or hers personality which I find oddly funny.
It seems to me that people are very platonic about their relationships. There is no such thing as a soul mate, no two people think the same. People put up with very different situations for the benefit of their partners. If I'm being monogamous, it's because she wants me to be. I can't help my desire for other women, but I can help not making a pass at them.
Because you made a thread hoping that you could get people to rally around and be understanding to you and sympathize with you and tell you that you weren't so bad.
But no, that's not going to happen. You're going to get the truth. Because you should have someone tell you point blank how terrible of a boyfriend you're being.
Because this girl deserves better.
Because you're breaking her heart and if you had any empathy at all you wouldn't still be dating her because you obviously don't care about her.
Because I believe she must have self-esteem issues not to have dumped your cheating ass and I feel sorry for her.
Let this talk: you're still here, still trying to defend yourself. People who are genuinely sorry don't defend themselves for six pages. People who legitimately want to understand a situation don't argue for six pages.
And guess what? You made a move on another woman.
Having a crush on a secretary is not the same as having an affair with a secretary.
Don't think you care about her point of view. You care if she's going to leave you. Not the same thing.
No, it seems to me that you don't give a crap.
But you didn't! This is exactly what you did! Apparently you couldn't even be bothered to do that!
'Messing around', 'I was just messing around'. Too many girls hear that.
I don't know exactly how you guys are doing it, the relationship thing, but this could be her overreacting because -- because it's expedient to say so but probably grossly inaccurate or imprecise -- she's a wacko with issues or you really did cross a line. Either way, you guys need to work on trust and communication. Maybe it's time to start setting ground rules and/or domestication.
Edit:
Yeah. Okay. To me what you did there is cheated.
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