Let this talk: you're still here, still trying to defend yourself. People who are genuinely sorry don't defend themselves for six pages.
People who legitimately want to understand a situation don't argue for six pages.
Lol, nice argument. "You're wrong because you're still here." So either I'm wrong, or I stop arguing? Can't I disagree with you?
You're tireless, I give you that. I'm not going to repeat myself for the tenth time. Reread my previous posts and pretend it's me saying it all over again.
Don't think you care about her point of view. You care if she's going to leave you. Not the same thing.
Is it not? If she is that much troubled, then she should just leave me. If she didn't leave me, I assume she's not that troubled. Simple as that.
@Jim_Mick: Thanks, buddy. There's been a lot of posts and I don't expect you to go through them all, but I've been told this already. The storm has passed, so I don't know if I want to start this conversation with her now.
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@Tranquilo: It was just your debates over the definition of cheating made it seem possible that you weren't wrapping your head all the way around the issue. I wanted to make sure the points about trust and her being right to look out for herself got hammered home. Seems like they were, so... I guess I've nothing more to add to the problem part.
It seems to me that people are very platonic about their relationships.
I don't follow what you're getting at here. Are we still talking couples? What does a lack of soul mates have to do with being platonic rather than romantic? Are you saying people just get in relationships because 'Eh, it's a thing to do, I guess?'
Is it not? If she is that much troubled, then she should just leave me. If she didn't leave me, I assume she's not that troubled. Simple as that.
This makes very, very little sense, and comes across as very, very disturbing. Basically I'm reading: no girl in her right mind would ever dump a stud like me, and if she doesn't like me wackin' it to girls on the internet she's obviously troubled.
She'd probably be pissed about me sharing our issues with strangers.
rolf. you certainly have left your "closed door section" about your life wide open. figuratively speaking.
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This makes very, very little sense, and comes across as very, very disturbing. Basically I'm reading: no girl in her right mind would ever dump a stud like me, and if she doesn't like me wackin' it to girls on the internet she's obviously troubled.
Care to rephrase?
Personally I read it as:
"If this is such a big issue for her that she wants to leave me over it, then she should leave me. If she hasn't left me yet, then that means it must not be that big of a deal to her."
Obviously I could be wrong since I didn't say it, but that was my interpretation.
"If this is such a big issue for her that she wants to leave me over it, then she should leave me. If she hasn't left me yet, then that means it must not be that big of a deal to her."
Obviously I could be wrong since I didn't say it, but that was my interpretation.
Either way, he's basically saying he'll work just hard enough not to get fired. Probably not the best philosophy for a long term relationship.
"If this is such a big issue for her that she wants to leave me over it, then she should leave me. If she hasn't left me yet, then that means it must not be that big of a deal to her."
Obviously I could be wrong since I didn't say it, but that was my interpretation.
Problem is, I think my definition is more kind in this scenario, because I simply gleaned from the sentence that he was being delusional and abrupt; your interpretation he comes across as so coldy calculating that he'd encourage his girlfriend to leave at the first sign of an imperfect relationship.
Cybersex isn't cheating. Network technology hasn't gotten so advanced that you can have sex long distance.
However, that really doesn't matter. It doesn't have to be cheating for it to be a problem you need to deal with. Not appropriating chores in a relationship isn't cheating, but it is still something you need to deal with if a relationship is to work. If it's beyond either of your comfort levels, it doesn't matter who is "right," it matters how you are going to handle it.
It is cheating IMHO. you exchange words with someone else other than your partner, Words which you also say to your partner.
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Cybersex isn't cheating. Network technology hasn't gotten so advanced that you can have sex long distance.
It may not be cheating in that he physically had sex with these internet randoms, but it is absolutely still a betrayal. I mean, if he exchanged numbers with some girl on Plenty of Fish and sexted back and forth, it's still cheating. I don't think the two involved necessarily have to physically make contact for it to be cheating because there's a second facet of cheating beyond the physical act and that's the emotional side. Sharing with one outside your relationship words, intimacy and feelings that ought to your partner alone is cheating as well.
Another poster upthread said it perfectly when he mentioned it being just as much a betrayal to say you met someone online and fell in love as it is to say you met a random in a bar and had meaningless sex. Both betray the trust of the relationship.
Because you made a thread hoping that you could get people to rally around and be understanding to you and sympathize with you and tell you that you weren't so bad.
But no, that's not going to happen. You're going to get the truth. Because you should have someone tell you point blank how terrible of a boyfriend you're being.
Because this girl deserves better.
Because you're breaking her heart and if you had any empathy at all you wouldn't still be dating her because you obviously don't care about her.
Because I believe she must have self-esteem issues not to have dumped your cheating ass and I feel sorry for her.
Let this talk: you're [I]still[/I] here, [I]still [/I]trying to defend yourself. People who are genuinely sorry don't defend themselves for six pages. People who legitimately want to understand a situation don't argue for six pages.
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I've been kind of surprised at the responses you are getting on this topic Tranquilo. It's interesting to see what other people consider cheating or not.
However, I want to state that for the record I am rallying behind you Tranquilo. I don't think that what you did was cheating or even wrong. I think
it is perfectly natural to want to view pornography and that doing so shouldn't be a taboo. There is a difference between hooking up with a girl in real life and some random on the internet. I mean maybe your girlfriend has some right to be jealous, but she shouldn't need to blow it out of proportion and call you a cheater over some cam girl that you obviously had no emotional attachment to only lust.
And there's the key. There is a difference between love and lust. In a good relationship both individuals are aware of that.
I mean obviously I'm sure you let her know how you feel on the subject and it's resolved now, but she needs to be aware of how you feel on the subject.
I mean is it considered cheating to go to a strip club? To Hooter's? Watch a woman sunbathing?
There has to be some limit to how sensitive she is on the subject. Find it and you're golden.
There is nothing wrong with harmless flirting over the internet, and the cam stuff sounds like just porn. The cam stuff sounds cool actually.
And I personally feel for you. My ex-girlfriend got pissed at me when she found me 'sexting' (flirting) with other people over text messages. It didn't mean anything, and her invasion of privacy was what started the bitterness in our relationship. Some girls have this super-narrow box of laws and rules you need to follow, and if you don't they try to make you feel like crap. She sounds quite controlling like my ex, where she wanted to act like we were married at 17-18. Crazy.
EDIT: Oh and my now ex cheated on me, then dumped me when I figured it out and wanted to fwb instead. So watch out...
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Lol, nice argument. "You're wrong because you're still here." So either I'm wrong, or I stop arguing? Can't I disagree with you?
But what are you disagreeing with? I'm telling you that you were wrong for doing this. Are you saying you weren't in the wrong?
So you're admitting to feeding your girlfriend a fake apology when you're not sorry at all because your concern is covering your own ass? That just reinforces everything I've said about you, doesn't it?
Look, if you genuinely showed any kind of remorse or the understanding that you did anything wrong, I wouldn't give you this much crap. But you don't. You show NO understanding of anything your girlfriend is feeling right now or why. You show NO understanding of any kind or any real concern for her.
It may not be cheating in that he physically had sex with these internet randoms, but it is absolutely still a betrayal.
And, if I may add to that, what is the term regarding a betrayal of trust and fidelity in a relationship by performing sexual activities with another woman?
I mean maybe your girlfriend has some right to be jealous, but she shouldn't need to blow it out of proportion and call you a cheater over some cam girl that you obviously had no emotional attachment to only lust.
No, she has every right to call him out on that. That's what cheating MEANS.
And there's the key. There is a difference between love and lust. In a good relationship both individuals are aware of that.
So in a good relationship, I can have sex with anyone I want, but as long as I say to the girl, "I only love you," that makes it all better?
No, that's ****ing bull**** isn't it?
Look, if both parties agree that those are the terms of their relationship, fine, but that sure as crap isn't what happened here and to say that anyone should be able to assume this or expect this of someone is flat out stupid.
He cheated on his girlfriend and violated the terms of their relationship and his girlfriend feels betrayed. To say she doesn't have every right to feel that way is ridiculous. After SIX years of dating someone, you get the impression of whether or not they'd be ok with you having cybersex with other girls.
No, the fact of the matter is he knew having cybersex with these girls would hurt his girlfriend and did it anyway. And that is wrong. Don't try to defend him, you're wasting your breath.
And I personally feel for you. My ex-girlfriend got pissed at me when she found me 'sexting' (flirting) with other people over text messages. It didn't mean anything, and her invasion of privacy was what started the bitterness in our relationship. Some girls have this super-narrow box of laws and rules you need to follow, and if you don't they try to make you feel like crap. She sounds quite controlling like my ex, where she wanted to act like we were married at 17-18. Crazy.
EDIT: Oh and my now ex cheated on me, then dumped me when I figured it out and wanted to fwb instead. So watch out...
Are you kidding me?
Seriously, are you joking right now? You screw around behind your girl's back, and you blame HER for not trusting you? Then you get all upset when she decides she wants to be friends with benefits when that's all you treated her as when you were dating? So it's cool that you get to cheat on her, but when she cheats on you, oh hey, then it's no longer ok? What is wrong with you?
No I asked to be FWB when I found out, then she got all mad and dumped me. Her cheating on me wasn't even that bad, it was with an ex anyways. We had a pretty laid back relationship until the end when she went crazy, cheated on me but then SHE got mad when I asked to be FWB because she obviously couldn't stay committed.
Flirting is a natural thing, everyone does it and I'm sure she did it too.
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Having a sexual partner has nothing to do with it. One can't have his private sexual fantasies? Am I supposed to share everything with her? I certainly don't want that. Does it mean I don't love her?
This right here is the entire problem. When you love someone, you will want to share everything with them. Secrets are like poison to a relationship. They will eventually destroy everything you have.
And, no, I didn't read anything after this post, so if someone else already said this, sorry.
No, the fact of the matter is he knew having cybersex with these girls would hurt his girlfriend and did it anyway. And that is wrong. Don't try to defend him, you're wasting your breath.
I will "waste" my virtual breath defending him. If only to help anyone who happens to see this thread understand that looking at pornography (aka what he did on a cam site) is not cheating.
I will try to state this as simply as possible: he did not have sex with anyone. What he did was the equivalent of watching porn.
Honestly the way you're playing this up it seems like you think that he shouldn't even be allowed to hang around other women, which whatever the intent may be, is not practical. If he goes out for drinks with co-workers and one of them is a woman is that cheating? Is he allowed to be friends with other women? Where is the line drawn?
Answer: there isn't one. He's gotta define it for himself. If he's this genuinely surprised that she got angry, it means that he didn't act just to spite her. I am of the opinion that he didn't do anything wrong because it isn't obvious that he did something indecent. In a real relationship, his girlfriend would see that and forgive him.
Also, I know that someone will probably give me flack for saying this, but I don't think one should expect ultimate sexual satisfaction from your partner. Sometimes you are going to want what you can't have. Stifling these urges by watching porn or doing a similar "cheat safe" activity will help to maintain a healthy relationship because then that area of sexual deviance will have been "explored."
Whew, that may have been a little confusing and long winded, but I hope that I got my point across as to why I think Tranquillo is innocent of any transgressions.
No. The difference, and make no mistake it is a very big difference, is that porn involves absolutely no interaction. There can be no intimacy on any level. What he did involved interaction of a sexual nature with another woman and on some level, intimacy. And that is why many of us are calling it cheating.
No. The difference, and make no mistake it is a very big difference, is that porn involves absolutely no interaction. There can be no intimacy on any level. What he did involved interaction of a sexual nature with another woman and on some level, intimacy. And that is why many of us are calling it cheating.
I would add that a camsite involves Interaction between two consenting, non paid people, which is very different from the pre-recorded nature of porn.
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But what are you disagreeing with? I'm telling you that you were wrong for doing this. Are you saying you weren't in the wrong?
Yes, I'm saying I don't think it's a big deal, but as I mentioned plenty of times, I apologized and made her feel better about it. I don't intend on doing it again - even though I only see it as porn. Why would I do that? Because, to her, this is wrong. So I'm compromising.
So you're admitting to feeding your girlfriend a fake apology when you're not sorry at all because your concern is covering your own ass? That just reinforces everything I've said about you, doesn't it?
So you think I should break up with someone who makes me happy, just because we have different definitions regarding porn?
He cheated on his girlfriend and violated the terms of their relationship and his girlfriend feels betrayed. To say she doesn't have every right to feel that way is ridiculous. After SIX years of dating someone, you get the impression of whether or not they'd be ok with you having cybersex with other girls.
Actually, no. There wasn't that many camsites back then. I only started watching those cams last year when I was travelling on work.
rolf. you certainly have left your "closed door section" about your life wide open. figuratively speaking.
Lol, yeah. But it's not like she doesn't already do that on twitter (one of my pet peeves) - and here there's a very small chance to be read by someone I know IRL.
"If this is such a big issue for her that she wants to leave me over it, then she should leave me. If she hasn't left me yet, then that means it must not be that big of a deal to her."
This right here is the entire problem. When you love someone, you will want to share everything with them. Secrets are like poison to a relationship. They will eventually destroy everything you have.
Gotta disagree with you Manders. I mentioned it before but you probably didn't read it - I don't believe in this 'perfect love' crap. A person who doesn't keep secrets is either insane or bound to go insane.
I don't think the two involved necessarily have to physically make contact for it to be cheating because there's a second facet of cheating beyond the physical act and that's the emotional side. Sharing with one outside your relationship words, intimacy and feelings that ought to your partner alone is cheating as well.
Mikey, I only saw her through her webcam and she saw me. I don't know anything about her and she doesn't know anything about me. I couldn't care less for her - for me it was just porn, I never got involved!
No. The difference, and make no mistake it is a very big difference, is that porn involves absolutely no interaction. There can be no intimacy on any level. What he did involved interaction of a sexual nature with another woman and on some level, intimacy. And that is why many of us are calling it cheating.
Yeah Mikey, but this level of intimacy is subjective. Maybe I wouldn't even hook up with her IRL (really man, I don't even remember what she was like!).
Where is the line drawn?
Answer: there isn't one. He's gotta define it for himself. If he's this genuinely surprised that she got angry, it means that he didn't act just to spite her.
Also, I know that someone will probably give me flack for saying this, but I don't think one should expect ultimate sexual satisfaction from your partner. Sometimes you are going to want what you can't have. Stifling these urges by watching porn or doing a similar "cheat safe" activity will help to maintain a healthy relationship because then that area of sexual deviance will have been "explored."
Thanks, Ranger. I agree with you and that's what I was trying to say, but you expressed it much better the I did
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So so so true.
I actually hate keeping secrets from my partner and have a completely open book attitude down to the point I tell her 99.9% of stuff and the stuff I don't is stuff like what I got her for birthday/christmas etc but even then if she straight up asked me I'd tell her.
Well, it might work for you. It doesn't mean it works for everyone - actually, the happiest couples I know don't do that.
Edit: Anyway as Highroller pointed out the OP clearly just wanted the thread as a way to get his online compatriots to basically give positive feedback on his mental delusion that this kind of behaviour is not cheating.
I'm sorry you think that. But well, I've been in your shoe.
I truly feel sorry for her as she deserves to find true love just like everyone else in world.
And they ride away on their unicorn? You guys idealize love. Unfortunately, we don't live in a Disney movie. People have secrets and weird desires IRL.
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Poor unfortunate Tranquilo, everyone feels the need to speak for his girlfriend of define his relationship boundaries as if he cannot do it himself. They even pity him for daring to not think like them.
Soon Highroller will be collecting donations to begin his campaign to break the two of them up.
Although Tranquilo your first post did come off as, "I did ~this~and my girlfriend had the audacity to say its cheating, agree with me so I can show her the thread and she will see how wrong she is." Probably not the best way to begin a thread like this.
It would drive me insane, poison me and depress me to keep secrets from my girlfriend. There's nothing she can't ask me that I won't answer honestly. The same goes for me asking her.
OK, so I abide to the fact that it might be a great feeling for you and Belgareth. Can you please for a second consider that it might not be what I want? This thread is turning into a "what is the right way to love someone", which is fruitless.
Are people delusional enough to think that cyber sex is "just" porn? Or is there some sort of mental issue that creates the illusion in their mind? Either way, jacking off while talking to someone else doing the same is not simply porn.
I'll say it for the eleventh time, then. For me, it is just porn. I have no emotional connection whatsoever to the other person. It's just about visual stimulation, not about romantic interest.
Wrapping up: This thread has ran for too long. Thank you for the input everyone. Now I know how you see cybersexing, I know how she sees cybersexing and I know how I see it. We're fine now, she forgave me and I don't plan on doing it again. Even though I don't see it as a big deal, I'm compromising because I don't want her to leave me. If any of you want to keep debating, feel free to drop me a PM, I just don't want to repeat myself.
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Are people delusional enough to think that cyber sex is "just" porn? Or is there some sort of mental issue that creates the illusion in their mind? Either way, jacking off while talking to someone else doing the same is not simply porn.
What about calling a hotline for phone sex? Is that cheating? (sorry couldn't help myself...)
Oh boy. Lots of responses once again. I feel obliged to defend the opposite side of this argument as it seems that both sides think the other is delusional and I want to help foster an understanding (although I doubt it will work, I'll try) in a calm, cool, and collected manner.
I know that this is a "delicate issue" especially since many people are so sexually repressed, but I will admit that I was probably too lenient when I defined a "cam site" as porn.
However I do think that it is approximately the same. Porn is "strictly" defined as something made by the industry, bought and sold. On a cam site, there is often an amateur crowd. I don't see what's wrong with directing your own "porn video" with some amateur rather than watching porn, or even worse wasting money paying for it.
I'm sure that most wives/girlfriends would be less offended by their significant other going to a cam site than having them go with the guys to a strip club to go get some more physical stimuli.
Anyways, as someone previously stated this is definitely a gray area dictated by how sensitive people are. That shouldn't discourage you from trying to explain your point of view on the subject to someone.
[Quote=Tranquilo] OK, so I abide to the fact that it might be a great feeling for you and Belgareth. Can you please for a second consider that it might not be what I want? This thread is turning into a "what is the right way to love someone", which is fruitless.
I'm hoping that it's turning into a: "If my significant other says I'm cheating and I don't think I am how do I explain it to them?" thread. I would advocate against advice directed specifically to Tranquilo as his issue has resolved, but I believe this can still be an enlightening discussion.
I think I read through about 6 pages of this thread before this question nagged me enough to skip ahead and post it.
HOW did you reach 6 YEARS into your relationship, and not already have a clear understanding of her boundaries/expectations and personal definitions for what is and is not ok? Do you not ever talk!?
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Lol, nice argument. "You're wrong because you're still here." So either I'm wrong, or I stop arguing? Can't I disagree with you?
You're tireless, I give you that. I'm not going to repeat myself for the tenth time. Reread my previous posts and pretend it's me saying it all over again.
Is it not? If she is that much troubled, then she should just leave me. If she didn't leave me, I assume she's not that troubled. Simple as that.
@Jim_Mick: Thanks, buddy. There's been a lot of posts and I don't expect you to go through them all, but I've been told this already. The storm has passed, so I don't know if I want to start this conversation with her now.
But I do like chatting.
I don't follow what you're getting at here. Are we still talking couples? What does a lack of soul mates have to do with being platonic rather than romantic? Are you saying people just get in relationships because 'Eh, it's a thing to do, I guess?'
I reject that notion
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This makes very, very little sense, and comes across as very, very disturbing. Basically I'm reading: no girl in her right mind would ever dump a stud like me, and if she doesn't like me wackin' it to girls on the internet she's obviously troubled.
Care to rephrase?
rolf. you certainly have left your "closed door section" about your life wide open. figuratively speaking.
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Personally I read it as:
"If this is such a big issue for her that she wants to leave me over it, then she should leave me. If she hasn't left me yet, then that means it must not be that big of a deal to her."
Obviously I could be wrong since I didn't say it, but that was my interpretation.
Either way, he's basically saying he'll work just hard enough not to get fired. Probably not the best philosophy for a long term relationship.
Problem is, I think my definition is more kind in this scenario, because I simply gleaned from the sentence that he was being delusional and abrupt; your interpretation he comes across as so coldy calculating that he'd encourage his girlfriend to leave at the first sign of an imperfect relationship.
However, that really doesn't matter. It doesn't have to be cheating for it to be a problem you need to deal with. Not appropriating chores in a relationship isn't cheating, but it is still something you need to deal with if a relationship is to work. If it's beyond either of your comfort levels, it doesn't matter who is "right," it matters how you are going to handle it.
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It may not be cheating in that he physically had sex with these internet randoms, but it is absolutely still a betrayal. I mean, if he exchanged numbers with some girl on Plenty of Fish and sexted back and forth, it's still cheating. I don't think the two involved necessarily have to physically make contact for it to be cheating because there's a second facet of cheating beyond the physical act and that's the emotional side. Sharing with one outside your relationship words, intimacy and feelings that ought to your partner alone is cheating as well.
Another poster upthread said it perfectly when he mentioned it being just as much a betrayal to say you met someone online and fell in love as it is to say you met a random in a bar and had meaningless sex. Both betray the trust of the relationship.
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I've been kind of surprised at the responses you are getting on this topic Tranquilo. It's interesting to see what other people consider cheating or not.
However, I want to state that for the record I am rallying behind you Tranquilo. I don't think that what you did was cheating or even wrong. I think
it is perfectly natural to want to view pornography and that doing so shouldn't be a taboo. There is a difference between hooking up with a girl in real life and some random on the internet. I mean maybe your girlfriend has some right to be jealous, but she shouldn't need to blow it out of proportion and call you a cheater over some cam girl that you obviously had no emotional attachment to only lust.
And there's the key. There is a difference between love and lust. In a good relationship both individuals are aware of that.
I mean obviously I'm sure you let her know how you feel on the subject and it's resolved now, but she needs to be aware of how you feel on the subject.
I mean is it considered cheating to go to a strip club? To Hooter's? Watch a woman sunbathing?
There has to be some limit to how sensitive she is on the subject. Find it and you're golden.
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And I personally feel for you. My ex-girlfriend got pissed at me when she found me 'sexting' (flirting) with other people over text messages. It didn't mean anything, and her invasion of privacy was what started the bitterness in our relationship. Some girls have this super-narrow box of laws and rules you need to follow, and if you don't they try to make you feel like crap. She sounds quite controlling like my ex, where she wanted to act like we were married at 17-18. Crazy.
EDIT: Oh and my now ex cheated on me, then dumped me when I figured it out and wanted to fwb instead. So watch out...
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But what are you disagreeing with? I'm telling you that you were wrong for doing this. Are you saying you weren't in the wrong?
So you're admitting to feeding your girlfriend a fake apology when you're not sorry at all because your concern is covering your own ass? That just reinforces everything I've said about you, doesn't it?
Look, if you genuinely showed any kind of remorse or the understanding that you did anything wrong, I wouldn't give you this much crap. But you don't. You show NO understanding of anything your girlfriend is feeling right now or why. You show NO understanding of any kind or any real concern for her.
And, if I may add to that, what is the term regarding a betrayal of trust and fidelity in a relationship by performing sexual activities with another woman?
Oh right, it's "cheating" isn't it?
No, she has every right to call him out on that. That's what cheating MEANS.
So in a good relationship, I can have sex with anyone I want, but as long as I say to the girl, "I only love you," that makes it all better?
No, that's ****ing bull**** isn't it?
Look, if both parties agree that those are the terms of their relationship, fine, but that sure as crap isn't what happened here and to say that anyone should be able to assume this or expect this of someone is flat out stupid.
He cheated on his girlfriend and violated the terms of their relationship and his girlfriend feels betrayed. To say she doesn't have every right to feel that way is ridiculous. After SIX years of dating someone, you get the impression of whether or not they'd be ok with you having cybersex with other girls.
No, the fact of the matter is he knew having cybersex with these girls would hurt his girlfriend and did it anyway. And that is wrong. Don't try to defend him, you're wasting your breath.
Are you kidding me?
Seriously, are you joking right now? You screw around behind your girl's back, and you blame HER for not trusting you? Then you get all upset when she decides she wants to be friends with benefits when that's all you treated her as when you were dating? So it's cool that you get to cheat on her, but when she cheats on you, oh hey, then it's no longer ok? What is wrong with you?
Flirting is a natural thing, everyone does it and I'm sure she did it too.
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This right here is the entire problem. When you love someone, you will want to share everything with them. Secrets are like poison to a relationship. They will eventually destroy everything you have.
And, no, I didn't read anything after this post, so if someone else already said this, sorry.
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I will "waste" my virtual breath defending him. If only to help anyone who happens to see this thread understand that looking at pornography (aka what he did on a cam site) is not cheating.
I will try to state this as simply as possible: he did not have sex with anyone. What he did was the equivalent of watching porn.
Honestly the way you're playing this up it seems like you think that he shouldn't even be allowed to hang around other women, which whatever the intent may be, is not practical. If he goes out for drinks with co-workers and one of them is a woman is that cheating? Is he allowed to be friends with other women? Where is the line drawn?
Answer: there isn't one. He's gotta define it for himself. If he's this genuinely surprised that she got angry, it means that he didn't act just to spite her. I am of the opinion that he didn't do anything wrong because it isn't obvious that he did something indecent. In a real relationship, his girlfriend would see that and forgive him.
Also, I know that someone will probably give me flack for saying this, but I don't think one should expect ultimate sexual satisfaction from your partner. Sometimes you are going to want what you can't have. Stifling these urges by watching porn or doing a similar "cheat safe" activity will help to maintain a healthy relationship because then that area of sexual deviance will have been "explored."
Whew, that may have been a little confusing and long winded, but I hope that I got my point across as to why I think Tranquillo is innocent of any transgressions.
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No. The difference, and make no mistake it is a very big difference, is that porn involves absolutely no interaction. There can be no intimacy on any level. What he did involved interaction of a sexual nature with another woman and on some level, intimacy. And that is why many of us are calling it cheating.
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I would add that a camsite involves Interaction between two consenting, non paid people, which is very different from the pre-recorded nature of porn.
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Yes, I'm saying I don't think it's a big deal, but as I mentioned plenty of times, I apologized and made her feel better about it. I don't intend on doing it again - even though I only see it as porn. Why would I do that? Because, to her, this is wrong. So I'm compromising.
So you think I should break up with someone who makes me happy, just because we have different definitions regarding porn?
Actually, no. There wasn't that many camsites back then. I only started watching those cams last year when I was travelling on work.
Lol, yeah. But it's not like she doesn't already do that on twitter (one of my pet peeves) - and here there's a very small chance to be read by someone I know IRL.
This. Thanks Vericide.
Gotta disagree with you Manders. I mentioned it before but you probably didn't read it - I don't believe in this 'perfect love' crap. A person who doesn't keep secrets is either insane or bound to go insane.
Mikey, I only saw her through her webcam and she saw me. I don't know anything about her and she doesn't know anything about me. I couldn't care less for her - for me it was just porn, I never got involved!
Yeah Mikey, but this level of intimacy is subjective. Maybe I wouldn't even hook up with her IRL (really man, I don't even remember what she was like!).
I wholeheartedly agree.
Thanks, Ranger. I agree with you and that's what I was trying to say, but you expressed it much better the I did
Well, it might work for you. It doesn't mean it works for everyone - actually, the happiest couples I know don't do that.
I'm sorry you think that. But well, I've been in your shoe.
And they ride away on their unicorn? You guys idealize love. Unfortunately, we don't live in a Disney movie. People have secrets and weird desires IRL.
Soon Highroller will be collecting donations to begin his campaign to break the two of them up.
Although Tranquilo your first post did come off as, "I did ~this~and my girlfriend had the audacity to say its cheating, agree with me so I can show her the thread and she will see how wrong she is." Probably not the best way to begin a thread like this.
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OK, so I abide to the fact that it might be a great feeling for you and Belgareth. Can you please for a second consider that it might not be what I want? This thread is turning into a "what is the right way to love someone", which is fruitless.
Do you tell your wife every time you see a hot woman on the street and get a hard-on? If you don't, aren't you breaking the pact?
I'll say it for the eleventh time, then. For me, it is just porn. I have no emotional connection whatsoever to the other person. It's just about visual stimulation, not about romantic interest.
Wrapping up: This thread has ran for too long. Thank you for the input everyone. Now I know how you see cybersexing, I know how she sees cybersexing and I know how I see it. We're fine now, she forgave me and I don't plan on doing it again. Even though I don't see it as a big deal, I'm compromising because I don't want her to leave me. If any of you want to keep debating, feel free to drop me a PM, I just don't want to repeat myself.
What about calling a hotline for phone sex? Is that cheating? (sorry couldn't help myself...)
Oh boy. Lots of responses once again. I feel obliged to defend the opposite side of this argument as it seems that both sides think the other is delusional and I want to help foster an understanding (although I doubt it will work, I'll try) in a calm, cool, and collected manner.
I know that this is a "delicate issue" especially since many people are so sexually repressed, but I will admit that I was probably too lenient when I defined a "cam site" as porn.
However I do think that it is approximately the same. Porn is "strictly" defined as something made by the industry, bought and sold. On a cam site, there is often an amateur crowd. I don't see what's wrong with directing your own "porn video" with some amateur rather than watching porn, or even worse wasting money paying for it.
I'm sure that most wives/girlfriends would be less offended by their significant other going to a cam site than having them go with the guys to a strip club to go get some more physical stimuli.
Anyways, as someone previously stated this is definitely a gray area dictated by how sensitive people are. That shouldn't discourage you from trying to explain your point of view on the subject to someone.
I'm hoping that it's turning into a: "If my significant other says I'm cheating and I don't think I am how do I explain it to them?" thread. I would advocate against advice directed specifically to Tranquilo as his issue has resolved, but I believe this can still be an enlightening discussion.
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http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showthread.php?t=347708
HOW did you reach 6 YEARS into your relationship, and not already have a clear understanding of her boundaries/expectations and personal definitions for what is and is not ok? Do you not ever talk!?