My advice it to take her at her word. She isn’t ready, so be it, maybe she will be in time. She seems like a decent communicator so keep the lines open. It’s a good thing.
I think you make a lot of valid points in your analysis, but ultimately the conclusion you draw is kind of unhelpful for the OP.
WHY should the OP waste his time and money and energy on a girl he's crushing a bit on, when she's not interested in that kind of religationship?
Its OK to continue to be her friend, but the kind of friend who (a) doesn't pay for stuff and (b) doesn't act as her emotional minipad, there ONLY for her convenience when nobody else will listen to her
I stick by what I said about "not ready to date" ALWAYS means "not ready to date YOU".
If the OP were somebody she was really attracted to, and saw as dating material, she'd roll the dice. She might hold back or put on the brakes at some point, but most likely that point would be well past making out and REAL flirting.
There is no chemistry there, and "you never know someday keep your foot in the door" is insufficient reason to be in a onesided "friendship" where you really want to date this girl. You're just asking to be used.
WHY should the OP waste his time and money and energy on a girl he's crushing a bit on, when she's not interested in that kind of religationship?
I don’t advocate wasting time and money and energy on a girl he’s crushing on if she’s not interested. But she didn’t say she wasn’t interested – she indicated she was healing from a previous relationship.
First, I’m an advocate of keeping doors open. Keep the relationship friendly. If there’s potential, that will develop… but that doesn’t mean he should cut all ties with all other women in the world and focus on this one. What he’s doing in terms of ice cream and movies and whatnot is fine.
Second, I am NOT an advocate of the “guy always pays” model. I have always expected that financial burden for dates/get together/fun be split evenly… especially at the friend/casual date stage.
Third, all relationships take energy. If this one has potential, than it’s worth devoting some energy to. I think, at this stage in communication, it is too early to pull back. I actually don’t see any value in that at all at the moment.
Its OK to continue to be her friend, but the kind of friend who (a) doesn't pay for stuff and (b) doesn't act as her emotional minipad, there ONLY for her convenience when nobody else will listen to her
I agree 100%. I didn’t read into that from the original post but if he is fitting the bill for everything and/or her emotional comfort blanket, that is unhealthy.
There is no chemistry there, and "you never know someday keep your foot in the door" is insufficient reason to be in a onesided "friendship" where you really want to date this girl. You're just asking to be used.
The OP seemed to indicate that there was some chemistry but it is important to be wary of being used emotionally over the long haul. I didn’t read into that from the original post but it is important to be on guard for that as well.
Honestly, I think he should just keep doing what he’s doing – dates that “aren’t dates”, hanging out, etc. That doesn’t mean he should shut everything down and focus everything he has on this one girl. Just means he should just keep doing what he’s doing.
simple: don't rush it and give her space. If not, you'll **** everything up. Approach her as a friend rather than a love interest until she is ready to approach YOU as a love interest. If you advance too much while she's not ready: you risk being forever banished to the 'friend zone'.
Incarna...are you on the hook for someone else? Is that where this is all coming from? Are you that creepy friend guy that hangs out with her even though she's engaged?
we got ice cream, walked, and talked a lot about romantic relationships
then tell me just how much she obviously has zero interest in this guy.
I mean, we're all going off of little information here until Oni kadaki comes back and sets us strait, but I can't even believe how stubborn you're being about this. Things like the OP happen, and in my experience (sorry, I'm not a psych major :() the majority of the time when it's set in a similar context to the OP the girl means exactly what she's saying: she's interested, but needs a bit of time to ground herself first. It could even be that she's scared of jumping off the deep end with a guy she's head-over-heels for. I'm really not sure how you know she's lying given everything else Oni mentioned.
If you were in a situation where you thought your emotional baggage might jeopardize the relationship that you hoped to one day foster...
If I were in that situation and a guy I found attractive (and I don't just mean physically attractive) had asked me out, there's no way I'd be passing on that. That's not a situation where you say "I'm not ready to date", that's a situation where you see where things go and if you're uncomfortable you slow things down. You know why you don't say "I'm not ready to date" to a guy you find attractive? Because you figure saying that will drive him away. You say "I'm not ready to date" to a guy you have no interest in dating at any time.
Now, granted, you may change your mind after getting to know a guy a little better, sure. But that doesn't happen often and doesn't seem to be what the OP was asking about anyways.
Time alone is a really healthy thing, and sometimes is the only thing that can get you back on track after a serious breakup.
Sure, I agree that it can be healthy for some people. I'm just saying that I find it hard to believe that she'd pass on a guy she's interested in in favor of some emotional mending. She isn't going to be thinking "Oh, this cute and interesting guy just asked me out. I should probably take some time to be by myself and then he will still be interested in me and ask me out a second time at which point I'll be ready to date."
No, I'm not buying that. Granted everyone is different, so no one can say for sure, but you generally don't pass on guys you find attractive for some alone time. You pass on guys who seem like a nice friend who you have no interest in dating.
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Geez, rhizome, are you even reading the same opening post here? Read it again, and after you go over this
and this
and this
and this
then tell me just how much she obviously has zero interest in this guy.
I mean, we're all going off of little information here until Oni kadaki comes back and sets us strait, but I can't even believe how stubborn you're being about this. Things like the OP happen, and in my experience (sorry, I'm not a psych major :() the majority of the time when it's set in a similar context to the OP the girl means exactly what she's saying: she's interested, but needs a bit of time to ground herself first. It could even be that she's scared of jumping off the deep end with a guy she's head-over-heels for. I'm really not sure how you know she's lying given everything else Oni mentioned.
Wow, this thread REALLY took off. I currently have no updates on the situation, gonna wait a few days to contact her, give her necessary distance. Personally, I'm optimistic right now, the current plan is to hang every so often with no mention of romance.
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As much as I'm against the OTT view that this card is going to solo tournaments, cure cancer and make Susan Boyle attractive I'm not really a fan of the opposing camp who think it slaughters puppies and sired Justin Bieber.
I mean....really?!?
Incarna...are you on the hook for someone else? Is that where this is all coming from? Are you that creepy friend guy that hangs out with her even though she's engaged?
This is known as an ad homonem attack. Also a fallacy, but, of course, you knew that because you have a degree.
But, if you must know, I’m in a long-term committed relationship with the woman of my dreams (who happens to have a masters in sexuality and gender studies – but she doesn’t hide behind her degree when we have discussions like this one, she lets her position stand on their own merit). I’ve never really had a “friend zone” problem with women in my life.
Did you get thrown in the friend zone and used like a security blanket by some girl from your past and now you think every situation is like the one you experienced? That, in your field is called “projecting” but, of course, you knew that, you have a degree.
Wow, this thread REALLY took off. I currently have no updates on the situation, gonna wait a few days to contact her, give her necessary distance. Personally, I'm optimistic right now, the current plan is to hang every so often with no mention of romance.
This is the right move. Also gives her a chance to contact you if she wants. Patience, in this situation, is going to be your ally… but I also recommend not cutting off any opportunities you might have with other women. Right now she’s a woman you are interested in who MAY eventually become something more. It's important to remember that.
By the way @ incarna and rhizome: I find the whole "degree" aspect of this discussion fascinating because I'm going into my fourth year of my schooling towards my doctorate in psychology. That's not meant to be a shot at you rhizome, you may well be right (though, no offense, I hope not), I just find it ironic that the degree thing is being debated when I personally have an ungodly amount of education in the field and STILL have no idea how the female brain works.
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It mostly consists of a napalm filled trench around my house and a stack of 1994 pornography in my basement.
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As much as I'm against the OTT view that this card is going to solo tournaments, cure cancer and make Susan Boyle attractive I'm not really a fan of the opposing camp who think it slaughters puppies and sired Justin Bieber.
By the way @ incarna and rhizome: I find the whole "degree" aspect of this discussion fascinating because I'm going into my fourth year of my schooling towards my doctorate in psychology. That's not meant to be a shot at you rhizome, you may well be right (though, no offense, I hope not), I just find it ironic that the degree thing is being debated when I personally have an ungodly amount of education in the field and STILL have no idea how the female brain works.
She could simply have a healthy interest in ice cream.
I actually laughed out loud when I read this.
But seriously no one on this forum knows as much as you do about the situation. We have never met her nor have we met you. We have no idea what the actual situation is. Even a very well written post leaves a lot to be imagine.
While I understand why you posted, the most important thing is how you feel about the situation. Good luck.
If you paid for most of the expenses (between dinner, drinks, movie tickets, ice cream), then "I'm not ready to date someone now" means "I hope you're enough of a sucker to keep buying me things in hopes that I'll be prepared to date you at an indefinite point in the future."
If you each paid your own way, then she probably means what she says.
This is pretty sage.
I would say that she is interested, but she is very afraid of being hurt.
And because she's a woman she thrives on making a simple decision a complex one as a defense mechanism.
If you really like her I would chase a little bit more. She wants to know if you expect her to be vulnerable that you are vulnerable too.
Sample size of one: my wife didn't agree to date me the first time I asked her. That happens.
With all the extra emotions and risk/reward of testing out intimacy, the early stages of a relationship are fun. Enjoy them.
With your upcoming degree (heh heh), it sounds like you'd recognize if things turn unhealthy for you.
Good luck!
I broke up with my wife after two dates and said we weren't really compatable. She talked me into a relationship a month later because we really did like each other. I was just non commital. We've dated for 3 years, have been married for nearly 7 and have two children, so I'll increase your sample size to 2.
Sure, I agree that it can be healthy for some people. I'm just saying that I find it hard to believe that she'd pass on a guy she's interested in in favor of some emotional mending. She isn't going to be thinking "Oh, this cute and interesting guy just asked me out. I should probably take some time to be by myself and then he will still be interested in me and ask me out a second time at which point I'll be ready to date."
Normally I would be in your camp, but unless he is mistranslating what she's saying she's already confessed to romantic attraction. I think the degree at which case she wants to heal depends on how bad she got hurt last time.
Out of the blackness and stench of the engulfing swamp emerged a shimmering figure. Only the splattered armor and ichor-stained sword hinted at the unfathomable evil the knight had just laid waste.
LOL at all the guys who are taking what she is saying at face value. Because women have never been known to be indirect and confusing regarding how they relate to men.
I concur with the fact that actions speak louder than words 99% of the time. She wants to spend time with you, is probably a little scared, and is looking for you to be the man.
Lesson #1. If a girl says something that is friendzoning you but spends a ton of time with you, she wants you. She already has friends. If she enjoys spending time with you that much she wants something from you she isnt getting from her friends.
isn't it all in the physicality? I mean, mentally you could be simpatico, but she has to physically want you if romance is gonna happen. She could eventually develop romantic feelings for a partner if they share the same likes and all that and he's nice and he's stuck by her, but that's something that would have to brew for a while.
Hair touching is a big sign, consistent eye contact is a big sign, playful touching, decreasing personal space, all that stuff. Laying her head on your shoulder. Stuff like that. If she doesn't mind being up in your grill, it's good times.
My advice, if she is giving you those signs and you find yourself in a situation where there's an awkward pause and you're really close, gently bring her in for a kiss. If she begins to seem uncomfortable or says no, then stop, leave it alone.
Per Wayne's World:
Garth Algar: Uhm, Wayne? What do you do if every time you see this one incredible woman, you think you're gonna hurl?
Wayne Campbell: I say hurl. If you blow chunks and she comes back, she's yours. But if you spew and she bolts, then it was never meant to be.
Expect replace all instances of vomit with kiss her.
Tactical situations we deal with imperfect information.
Regardless of how she currently has decided, you certainly might be able to change your mind.
Men and women are both complex and even a man may mean one thing and say another. Ultimately, for whatever reason, she did explicitly communicated a qualified "no" ( "NO for now" ) to a serious romantic relationship, but certainly did not tell you to stop anything else.
Now it's up to you to decide whether you still want to pursue whatever it is you want to pursue, given that one piece of information (and the tactical situation).
Certainly when a person tells you what she told you, it does NOT usually mean she thinks you're irresistible, that you give he butterflies, and that she has the hots for you right now. It usually means she's not interested in a romantic relationship with YOU at this time. It might mean both, but usually that will have a different wording and more explanation because she doesn't want to push you away.
-
Now there is alternate thing she could say such as "I'm not looking for anything long term right now" which can mean "green light to casual sex" because she's attracted to you and wants you to know she's not going to go all clingy on you (which can be a lie too on her part ).
But I don't think she said that. The situation you described sounds more like a gentle discouragement, because she's less into you than you are into her.
-
Even if it's hard to do so, put yourself in her position and ask yourself "WHY would I say that to a guy, and what would I expect I am risking by discouraging him like that?"
Good points all around: you guys can probably understand why I'm confused, as the verbal signs and nonverbal signs seem to conflict, at least from my perspective.
Anyway, I have an update: I'm bringing out the big guns... literally. The girl in question told me she's interested in going paintballing. Now, I don't play paintball, but, I DO shoot real rifles. On a hunch, I invited her to come along to the range with my dad and I today and try shooting the real thing. She's really excited about it.
As far as the expenses go, last time we each paid for our own ice cream. Today she'll be paying for her range fee unless the manager, who is a friend, lets her share a point with me. I'm not asking her to pay for ammo since I already had it, but, .22 long rifle, which is what I'll be starting her on, is dirt cheap, so money isn't an issue there. Just saying as the point had been raised early on.
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It mostly consists of a napalm filled trench around my house and a stack of 1994 pornography in my basement.
Quote from HandwrittenHero »
As much as I'm against the OTT view that this card is going to solo tournaments, cure cancer and make Susan Boyle attractive I'm not really a fan of the opposing camp who think it slaughters puppies and sired Justin Bieber.
I wouldnt even burden myself with what shes thinking or try and read into what she is saying. I think you have already made it clear you are interested in her, just let it take its coarse. But dont expect anything, otherwise you might be let down in the end. If something else comes along, dont pass it up waiting for an "if".
Also, you seem to enjoy your time with her. So just enjoy it while you can.
Why is it that every time a thread like this comes up (and there is an argument) everyone has a degree in psychology? MTGS seems to be made up of 85% multi-degree psychology majors.
I am in favor of Benalicious Hero's, Captain Morgan's, dcartist's stance. Even though you seem to be giving contradictory information, she just doesn't seem romantically into you. If you enjoy hanging out with her then by all means still hang out, but don't sit around and wait for her to come around because those kind of stories only happen 1/1000 times.
If it was me, I would simply just move on to the next romantic option. I would have a hard time to continue hanging out with a girl that I am crushing on when she has already stated she has no intentions of dating me.
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WHY should the OP waste his time and money and energy on a girl he's crushing a bit on, when she's not interested in that kind of religationship?
Its OK to continue to be her friend, but the kind of friend who (a) doesn't pay for stuff and (b) doesn't act as her emotional minipad, there ONLY for her convenience when nobody else will listen to her
I stick by what I said about "not ready to date" ALWAYS means "not ready to date YOU".
If the OP were somebody she was really attracted to, and saw as dating material, she'd roll the dice. She might hold back or put on the brakes at some point, but most likely that point would be well past making out and REAL flirting.
There is no chemistry there, and "you never know someday keep your foot in the door" is insufficient reason to be in a onesided "friendship" where you really want to date this girl. You're just asking to be used.
It really boils down to the OP dating model.
I don’t advocate wasting time and money and energy on a girl he’s crushing on if she’s not interested. But she didn’t say she wasn’t interested – she indicated she was healing from a previous relationship.
First, I’m an advocate of keeping doors open. Keep the relationship friendly. If there’s potential, that will develop… but that doesn’t mean he should cut all ties with all other women in the world and focus on this one. What he’s doing in terms of ice cream and movies and whatnot is fine.
Second, I am NOT an advocate of the “guy always pays” model. I have always expected that financial burden for dates/get together/fun be split evenly… especially at the friend/casual date stage.
Third, all relationships take energy. If this one has potential, than it’s worth devoting some energy to. I think, at this stage in communication, it is too early to pull back. I actually don’t see any value in that at all at the moment.
I agree 100%. I didn’t read into that from the original post but if he is fitting the bill for everything and/or her emotional comfort blanket, that is unhealthy.
The OP seemed to indicate that there was some chemistry but it is important to be wary of being used emotionally over the long haul. I didn’t read into that from the original post but it is important to be on guard for that as well.
Honestly, I think he should just keep doing what he’s doing – dates that “aren’t dates”, hanging out, etc. That doesn’t mean he should shut everything down and focus everything he has on this one girl. Just means he should just keep doing what he’s doing.
Incarna...are you on the hook for someone else? Is that where this is all coming from? Are you that creepy friend guy that hangs out with her even though she's engaged?
and this
and this
and this
then tell me just how much she obviously has zero interest in this guy.
I mean, we're all going off of little information here until Oni kadaki comes back and sets us strait, but I can't even believe how stubborn you're being about this. Things like the OP happen, and in my experience (sorry, I'm not a psych major :() the majority of the time when it's set in a similar context to the OP the girl means exactly what she's saying: she's interested, but needs a bit of time to ground herself first. It could even be that she's scared of jumping off the deep end with a guy she's head-over-heels for. I'm really not sure how you know she's lying given everything else Oni mentioned.
If I were in that situation and a guy I found attractive (and I don't just mean physically attractive) had asked me out, there's no way I'd be passing on that. That's not a situation where you say "I'm not ready to date", that's a situation where you see where things go and if you're uncomfortable you slow things down. You know why you don't say "I'm not ready to date" to a guy you find attractive? Because you figure saying that will drive him away. You say "I'm not ready to date" to a guy you have no interest in dating at any time.
Now, granted, you may change your mind after getting to know a guy a little better, sure. But that doesn't happen often and doesn't seem to be what the OP was asking about anyways.
Sure, I agree that it can be healthy for some people. I'm just saying that I find it hard to believe that she'd pass on a guy she's interested in in favor of some emotional mending. She isn't going to be thinking "Oh, this cute and interesting guy just asked me out. I should probably take some time to be by myself and then he will still be interested in me and ask me out a second time at which point I'll be ready to date."
No, I'm not buying that. Granted everyone is different, so no one can say for sure, but you generally don't pass on guys you find attractive for some alone time. You pass on guys who seem like a nice friend who you have no interest in dating.
I am only going of exactly what I've told women that I like hanging out with but really, really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really do NOT want to date.
He is being friendzoned. Why is that so hard to understand?
edit/
Just because he's a good friend doesn't mean she views him as a good boyfriend
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This is known as an ad homonem attack. Also a fallacy, but, of course, you knew that because you have a degree.
But, if you must know, I’m in a long-term committed relationship with the woman of my dreams (who happens to have a masters in sexuality and gender studies – but she doesn’t hide behind her degree when we have discussions like this one, she lets her position stand on their own merit). I’ve never really had a “friend zone” problem with women in my life.
Did you get thrown in the friend zone and used like a security blanket by some girl from your past and now you think every situation is like the one you experienced? That, in your field is called “projecting” but, of course, you knew that, you have a degree.
This is the right move. Also gives her a chance to contact you if she wants. Patience, in this situation, is going to be your ally… but I also recommend not cutting off any opportunities you might have with other women. Right now she’s a woman you are interested in who MAY eventually become something more. It's important to remember that.
She could simply have a healthy interest in ice cream.
Many thanks to ChibiSwan of The Ugly Swan for the great banner!
With all the extra emotions and risk/reward of testing out intimacy, the early stages of a relationship are fun. Enjoy them.
With your upcoming degree (heh heh), it sounds like you'd recognize if things turn unhealthy for you.
Good luck!
That is pretty funny.
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I actually laughed out loud when I read this.
But seriously no one on this forum knows as much as you do about the situation. We have never met her nor have we met you. We have no idea what the actual situation is. Even a very well written post leaves a lot to be imagine.
While I understand why you posted, the most important thing is how you feel about the situation. Good luck.
This is pretty sage.
I would say that she is interested, but she is very afraid of being hurt.
And because she's a woman she thrives on making a simple decision a complex one as a defense mechanism.
If you really like her I would chase a little bit more. She wants to know if you expect her to be vulnerable that you are vulnerable too.
I broke up with my wife after two dates and said we weren't really compatable. She talked me into a relationship a month later because we really did like each other. I was just non commital. We've dated for 3 years, have been married for nearly 7 and have two children, so I'll increase your sample size to 2.
Normally I would be in your camp, but unless he is mistranslating what she's saying she's already confessed to romantic attraction. I think the degree at which case she wants to heal depends on how bad she got hurt last time.
I guess we'll all find out.
Take it slow. Don't seem desperate.
That is all.
I concur with the fact that actions speak louder than words 99% of the time. She wants to spend time with you, is probably a little scared, and is looking for you to be the man.
Lesson #1. If a girl says something that is friendzoning you but spends a ton of time with you, she wants you. She already has friends. If she enjoys spending time with you that much she wants something from you she isnt getting from her friends.
Hair touching is a big sign, consistent eye contact is a big sign, playful touching, decreasing personal space, all that stuff. Laying her head on your shoulder. Stuff like that. If she doesn't mind being up in your grill, it's good times.
My advice, if she is giving you those signs and you find yourself in a situation where there's an awkward pause and you're really close, gently bring her in for a kiss. If she begins to seem uncomfortable or says no, then stop, leave it alone.
Per Wayne's World:
Garth Algar: Uhm, Wayne? What do you do if every time you see this one incredible woman, you think you're gonna hurl?
Wayne Campbell: I say hurl. If you blow chunks and she comes back, she's yours. But if you spew and she bolts, then it was never meant to be.
Expect replace all instances of vomit with kiss her.
Regardless of how she currently has decided, you certainly might be able to change your mind.
Men and women are both complex and even a man may mean one thing and say another. Ultimately, for whatever reason, she did explicitly communicated a qualified "no" ( "NO for now" ) to a serious romantic relationship, but certainly did not tell you to stop anything else.
Now it's up to you to decide whether you still want to pursue whatever it is you want to pursue, given that one piece of information (and the tactical situation).
Certainly when a person tells you what she told you, it does NOT usually mean she thinks you're irresistible, that you give he butterflies, and that she has the hots for you right now. It usually means she's not interested in a romantic relationship with YOU at this time. It might mean both, but usually that will have a different wording and more explanation because she doesn't want to push you away.
-
Now there is alternate thing she could say such as "I'm not looking for anything long term right now" which can mean "green light to casual sex" because she's attracted to you and wants you to know she's not going to go all clingy on you (which can be a lie too on her part ).
But I don't think she said that. The situation you described sounds more like a gentle discouragement, because she's less into you than you are into her.
-
Even if it's hard to do so, put yourself in her position and ask yourself "WHY would I say that to a guy, and what would I expect I am risking by discouraging him like that?"
Anyway, I have an update: I'm bringing out the big guns... literally. The girl in question told me she's interested in going paintballing. Now, I don't play paintball, but, I DO shoot real rifles. On a hunch, I invited her to come along to the range with my dad and I today and try shooting the real thing. She's really excited about it.
As far as the expenses go, last time we each paid for our own ice cream. Today she'll be paying for her range fee unless the manager, who is a friend, lets her share a point with me. I'm not asking her to pay for ammo since I already had it, but, .22 long rifle, which is what I'll be starting her on, is dirt cheap, so money isn't an issue there. Just saying as the point had been raised early on.
Many thanks to ChibiSwan of The Ugly Swan for the great banner!
Also, you seem to enjoy your time with her. So just enjoy it while you can.
BUWGRChilds PlayGRWUB
BUWGR Highlander GRWUB
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UR Mana FlareRU
UMerfolkU
B MBMC B
Shooting a firearm does some really strange stuff to females. Certainly a good plan.
Because we care about facts.
I am in favor of Benalicious Hero's, Captain Morgan's, dcartist's stance. Even though you seem to be giving contradictory information, she just doesn't seem romantically into you. If you enjoy hanging out with her then by all means still hang out, but don't sit around and wait for her to come around because those kind of stories only happen 1/1000 times.
If it was me, I would simply just move on to the next romantic option. I would have a hard time to continue hanging out with a girl that I am crushing on when she has already stated she has no intentions of dating me.
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