How in the world is monogamy a recent invention. It's existed in the great majority of human societies for at least the last two thousand years. Christianity doesn't even play into it. Korea and China had monogamy as an institution for thousands of years before Christianity arrived proper. That prostitution existed doesn't mean a whole lot.
And I find it really strange that people do not get that the OP's wife is upset over the lack of trust and ability to communicate needs moreso than the actual act of masturbating. He clarified as such in post #36.
The issue here is that of communication and trust. His wife may be insecure, but who don't know that.
Okay, I don't care if you want to argue your point, but drop the whole "everyone does it, if they say otherwise they are lying."
That's false. Get over it, not everyone is like you.
It's the closest thing to a universal activity among men that has ever existed. Honestly, not masturbating is FAR more abnormal than doing so
Secondly, if you think it's okay to fantasize about other women and objectify them, go ahead. If your wife doesn't care, that's kind of weird, but more power to you. But when my fiancé of the OPs wife cares, why would you say "it's not our job to care about their insecurities"? Sounds well, kind of heartless.
Who's objectifying people? If you objectify women as sexual objects, that's on you dude. Not us.
As for the "heartless" comment, no one is being heartless. If my wife (or anyone, man, woman, or child) expects me to behave differently to enable their insecurity, they got another thing coming. That's not being mean, that's sticking up for our right to have free will.
You don't know how I go about addressing her insecurities. It goes both ways. Im not just comforting her and apologizing, I get to the bottom of the issue and let her know why being jealous or whatever the deeper issue is can't go on. I realize now that porn is well, kind of gross. Hence why most people feel guilty or disgusted afterwards. It's also not something God would approve of (yes, that might only pertain to me in this thread, not sure).
If you want to consider porn "gross", go right ahead. If you want to subscribe to a religious system that disapproves of porn, that's your right as well. None of that has anything to do with the issue.
This whole situation really has nothing to do with porn at all. Replace porn with playing MTG, or going out with the guys, or watching TV. His wife's issue seems to be that he is paying attention to something other than her. She's insecure, he said so himself. And if she has hangups and insecurities, it's incredibly unfair for her to project them on him.
My problem was that I didnt talk to her and find out she didnt approve of porn.
The problem is you think you need your wife's approval to watch porn. That's the problem. You sound like you have some pretty deep insecurity and co dependance issues yourself, honestly. And you should see someone to start getting over those, cause I guarantee you, this was not about porn.
Your wife is emasculating you. This is not a good thing. And it's going to keep happening. First it'll be pron, then it'll be Magic, then it'll be "having the guys over" and then it will be going out with buddies and not her, and you just get turned into a doormat. That's no way to live.
You have given your wife WAY more power over your personal activities than is healthy, and unequal relationships always end terribly.
I was trying to have a little more tact, but yeah, pretty much this.
Look, it's good to have communication but you don't need permission to masturbate in the privacy of your own home. My gf doesn't ask me if it's okay before she does it, vice versa. Like Valarin said, this isn't really about porn. It's about control. You're allowed to have enough agency to take care of business, ffs...
Staring at random naked people and masturbating isn't something I'd want my girlfriend to do.
"Yes, we're together and we have sex and it's nice, but I also like to stare at other women when you're not around and fantasize about banging them while I rub my *****."
Does that even sound a little off to you?
As for the objectifying thing, using a woman's body strictly to please yourself seems like, well, presenting her as an object of sight and nothing else.
Staring at random naked people and masturbating isn't something I'd want my girlfriend to do.
"Yes, we're together and we have sex and it's nice, but I also like to stare at other women when you're not around and fantasize about banging them while I rub my *****."
I guess you don't play videogames either. "Yes, I'm a law abiding citizen, but I like to pretend to kill people on weekends."
As in any relationship, the OP and his wife are going to have to come together about what they think on the issue. If you don't want your GF doing it, then you and your GF should talk about it and work it out, as the OP will have to do with his wife. I don't think demonizing the practice will be helpful--you might disagree--but at the end of the day it's not going to matter what you and I think.
Did your wife even ask why you were watching porn?
I've found that everyone needs a cheap, duty-free thrill at times. Normally its something like buying an ice cream cone or a Magic pack but sometimes its much more basic and primal. Masturbating and looking at porn are ways for people to have that rarest of flowers, an orgasm that is all about you, a gift from yourself to yourself. No caring whether another person is satisfied or content. Its great and totally normal.
Staring at random naked people and masturbating isn't something I'd want my girlfriend to do.
And you think she doesn't? Women masturbate too, no matter how close minded you want to be about it. And they have every right to do so. Telling my wife I don't want her to masturbate would be the height of misogyny on my part.
"Yes, we're together and we have sex and it's nice, but I also like to stare at other women when you're not around and fantasize about banging them while I rub my *****."
Does that even sound a little off to you?
Who said he should say that to his wife?
If you want to start making up ridiculous statements, how about "Honey, I want you to stop doing something you enjoy that is completely harmless because I have body image issues that have nothing to do with you. I also want you to install parental control software on your computer to make sure I can keep controlling your behavior when I am not around. And even though you did nothing wrong I expect you to feel like this is all your fault and feel bad about it"
Does that even sound a little off to you?
As for the objectifying thing, using a woman's body strictly to please yourself seems like, well, presenting her as an object of sight and nothing else.
Unless you have some really special porn that can reach through the computer screen, watching porn isn't using the woman's body to do anything. You're the one objectifying woman here by considering women who do porn as nothing more that sexual objects waiting to be exploited. That's a very repressed and misogynistic viewpoint.
You call my statements ridiculous but you like to pretend you're omnipitent.
But hey, if youre such a horn dog that you cant go without it, my apologies. I feel bad for you.
To call porn completely harmless is foolish though. I guess the people addicted to or controlled by it arent being harmed whatsoever.
And yes, Im the one objectifying them, considering I dont watch it.
Also, what do you view the women in your porn as then, friends?
You call my statments ridiculous but you like to pretend your omnipitent.
But hey, if youre such a horn dog that you cant go without it, my apologies. I feel bad for you.
To call porn completely harmless is foolish though. I guess the people addicted to or controlled by it arent being harmed whatsoever.
And yes, Im the one objectifying them, considering I dont watch it.
Also, what do you view the women in your porn as then, friends?
I pretty much agree with this.
@OP, communication is key. If you can't talk, write out what needs to be said. It's how I came out to my parents, might work in this situation
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Also, what do you view the women in your porn as then, friends?
You didn't know? They're hands-on artists painting magical and emotional scenes using their bodies as the brush and occasionally combining their scenes with story telling starting with exposition, leading into rising action (foreplay), ahem climax, falling action and the occasional denouement.
Do you play videogames in which people are killed? What do you view those people as?
I used to play Call of Duty.
I shot at some graphics in a strategic war game. I viewed them as graphics.
I don't pretend I'm actually killing people.
I don't have a desire to actually kill people.
I don't get off to the thought of killing people.
There isn't a person who has feelings of "am I not good enough to be killed by him?".
The graphics I shot at weren't recordings of actual people.
I was never in an unhealthy addiction of shooting graphics.
I've never talked to someone who naturally, by the power of their human brain felt disgusted after shooting some graphics. (Although maybe there are some like that out there, but I'd argue not as many as there are who get that reaction from porn and masturbation)
Sounds to me your reaction is more a social construct than a natural one. Why should sex be more abhorrent than violence? Imaginary or otherwise? (And you do understand the difference between imagining yourself doing something and actually doing it, I hope? Despite your claims you never imagined yourself doing anything in the videogame.)
Anyway, I don't think the OP is really "addicted" to porn. Additionally, there are many forms of porn that don't involve real people, so I'm not even sure what you're trying to get at.
We have clearly began to discuss the topic in general, Valarin claims porn is completely harmless. I feel otherwise. Addiction isn't healthy, and a lot of people become addicted.
And of course I know the difference between imagining and actually doing something. Do you really want to take that road?
In the game, my goal is to play it and win. Not to fantasize about shooting people up. I don't really see a goal in porn besides fantasizing about the naked women and rubbing one off to it. I just don't feel it's right to indulge in such an act, especially when you have a significant other. I doubt I'll ever be convinced otherwise.
If you wish to devolve this conversation even further and take the route of belittling, I will probably see myself out. You guys have spent thousands of your posts doing this, I think you enjoy it quite a bit more than myself.
We have clearly began to discuss the topic in general, Valarin claims porn is completely harmless. I feel otherwise. Addiction isn't healthy, and a lot of people become addicted.
So, if you haven't claimed the OP is addicted, how is this talk of addition relevant? Anything can be additive.
In the game, my goal is to play it and win. Not to fantasize about shooting people up. I don't really see a goal in porn besides fantasizing about the naked women and rubbing one off to it. I just don't feel it's right to indulge in such an act, especially when you have a significant other. I doubt I'll ever be convinced otherwise.
I wouldn't try and convince you of it. I think it would be easier to convince you that in a videogame you ARE imagining shooting people, and that's how you win.
If you wish to devolve this conversation even further and take the route of belittling, I will probably see myself out. You guys have spent thousands of your posts doing this, I think you enjoy it quite a bit more than myself.
I'm not trying to belittle you, I'm trying to convince you.
"Tone" is hard to get into a post, and more often than not people project it into text when they read it, not when the other person writes it.
Anyway, I don't think the OP is really "addicted" to porn, so I'm not even sure what you're trying to get at.
It implies you thought I was claiming he was.
Secondly, I already said Valarin claimed its harmless, that's why I brought up addiction. Therefore it's relevant. Read a little harder, please.
Third, when you ask a question directed to me, with your small text, asking if I know the difference between reality and imagination, how is that not belittling? Clearly there's a difference. I think you can assume I know.
Edit: also, you seem to just argue people's arguing skills. Not the topic at hand. I find this really annoying and this will likely be my last reply. Unless I feel a deep need to give you any more breath. Trying to convince me that I'm imagining killing people when I play the game is pointless, off topic, and just a waste. So is my post right now to a certain extent. So yeah, this is lame. And I made you bust out your quote breaking skills so I should probably tuck tail anyway. Sorry if you misread my tone on this one.
Unless you have some really special porn that can reach through the computer screen, watching porn isn't using the woman's body to do anything. You're the one objectifying woman here by considering women who do porn as nothing more that sexual objects waiting to be exploited. That's a very repressed and misogynistic viewpoint.
You are watching women have sex with either men/women/machine/or masturbating for the sole purpose of having sexual gratification.
How is that not objectifying what you're watching? You're sure as hell not watching them for anything besides your sexual gratification, unless you enjoy the utterly nonexistent plots and dialogue.
The argument iCwalzy is making is that porn can be harmful. This is true. Is it the case for TS? I don't know. I don't think so, seeing as how the issue here is not that he watches porn.
Studies have shown that people who watch porn frequently to the point of addiction can build an unrealistic expectation of both the act of having sex and how their partner should look. Look them up.
And the emasculating comment is... laughable. Everything seems to be emasculating these days. It's sad, really.
That's not what I posted. There was another part in there, please don't misquote me. But--regardless--I will admit my grammer was poorly constructed. I'll fix it for your benefit. The last part was referring to the part you omitted in your misquote. Hopefully, it's more clear now. Writing has never been a strong suit of mine (a severe handicap in this text based medium, you understand).
Third, when you ask a question directed to me, with your small text, asking if I know the difference between reality and imagination, how is that not belittling? Clearly there's a difference. I think you can assume I know.
Because you said you weren't imagining anything when you played your video game--going out of your way to say you were taking it literally to be graphics and not representations of people--I did not think it was a safe assumption to make at that time, no.
Which is why I asked the question as an aside(not as some snarky thing as you assumed). There ARE people out there that feel thinking about doing something is just about as bad as doing it. Now I know you're not one. Edit:
Edit: also, you seem to just argue people's arguing skills. Not the topic at hand.
If you argument is inconstant then it's wrong by any measure, even its own.
If your logic starts to break down when applied to things YOU like to do, then it's likely a case of special pleading. That's what I'm driving at. For some reason you feel imaginary violence is a-ok, but imaginary sex is not. I am trying to see if that is truly inconstant reasoning, or if you have some legitimate reason I overlooked. Could go either way, IDK yet.
Did you seriously just link me to a definition of aside?
(Btw, if you don't know any of those words, just use google, it'll point you in the right direction. And it's there*, not their. Oh, and earlier it was your* not you're. Oh, and just to say it, the misquote really didn't change what you said, but sure, be sad that I misquoted you.)
Lololololol, bye.
Edit to your edit, read all my posts ITT, you should see why I disagree with porn.
First I want to say that I don't agree with all the relationship attacks against you, but I don't think you should take it such. People just have different views.
Second, it occurred to me that there was a possibility that some part of you already felt guilty about watching pornography which is why you and your girlfriend both could agreed not to watch porn and masturbate. That's your choice and maybe you have the best sex life.
But back to my question:
Why is pornography bad and why is it something one should feel guilty for watching/enjoying?
My girlfriend has never liked the thought of porn, and is grossed out by it so shes never viewed it.
I dont really like the idea of guiltiness, but I dont think you should be remorse free after viewing porn if you have a partner. When I used to watch porn, before I could even clean up my mess, I felt guilty. I felt gross. Not sure why, but that was my natural reaction. Did it stop me? Not at all. Id still watch, enjoy my brief moment of orgasm, then be mad at myself again. (Also, this is before and during My relationship)
Then I pondered if id like my future wife to be viewed in such a way... A tool for sexual pleasure... of course I didnt. So I worried that I was just another person jacking to some guys future wife. And that made me feel bad. Then there are my religious beliefs. Clearly it is wrong according to the bible I study. And again, when I did find my future wife, even I was scared I would compare her to the girls from the screen. Something I dont think is healthy for a relationship. Next, if my gf viewed and masturbated to porn, I would feel as if I wasn't enough for her, or that I couldnt give her a better orgasm than the videos. Thankfully she doesn't. I'm a confident person, but actions like those strip away confidence. And thats what I did to her. Kept looking when we frst got together. She found out and it hurt her, for reasons I understand. I told her she is beautiful, and enough for me, so she said "if I am, why do you need that?" And I realized I didnt. I dont want to be a slave to porn. So I tried to quit, which took awhile. It had power over me. People here say your gf just wants power over you? Well the porn had power over me in this case. However, I didn't just comfort her. I let her know insecurity was bad, and we worked on that. I let her know a "man's need" and we worked on that. Im saving vaginal sex for marriage, but yes, I do have oral sex. And hand sex, whatever you wanna call that. And I get enough, where I dont need porn, I dont even want porn anymore. At first, even if she was gone for two days, I'd run back to it. But thats over now, and I realize we are both much happier. If she is out of town now, she's out of town. Heck, sometimes well even go a few days without anything when we are together. It's because I don't care about it so much. It's an awesome bonus. But she herself is what matters. I'm busy just being in love, I don't necessarily need to always get busy. (Not to say it isn't fun when it happens and I'm down for it whenever) (although addiction to sex, even with just your partner probably isn't good either.)
Btw, please forgive tablet talk. Samsung poop doesnt autocorrect and has a small keyboard.
I just find it funny people say my girlfriend wants to control me..
If you cant make it through a day without masturbation or porn, whats really doing the controlling?
Edit: this has changed a bit as of 12:30am west coast usa time.
I'd suggest looking at where her self esteem problems originate through talking with her. It might be just time to engage in more physical activities with the woman and spending time with her. This would allow for more bonding, as well as her own physical form to be shaped more towards something she may feel more confident about. If she doesn't exercise much at all, exercise will also help with her general physical outlook as well. Exercise is good for the body and mind.
Romancing her and making her feel appreciated without doting on her, is also healthy. Doing small things, makes her feel better.
As for the pornography, it's apparent she doesn't condone the physical act itself as uncouth rather the focus of the stimulation. Figure out her your own comfort levels, this is where things can go wrong and go right. And sometimes, it means that she will have to live with certain levels of discomfort and that is something to deal with her to learn to live with.
My wife learned very early on that my rampant bibliophilia was going to be a competitor for relations to such an extent that "I just had to marry the damn nerd" becomes a usual saying. She just took the time to talk about her frustration and became more assertive. Although the approach she used to broach the subject isn't something that I would recommend, "F the book, f me."
I always had since the start of the marriage two things:
1. Keep communications open
2. Be assertive in finding workable solutions to complex problems, be patient things change slowly
I'll add a third caveat, be kind to the other person's beliefs. Her words to begin that debate did hurt my feelings, since I really do value education. Even though in retrospect, it can sound funny. And that's the other thing, these things run their course and understanding things are a process and things you think are a serious problem today breakdown over time to greater worries but as things improve allow you to have built in communication to bigger problems. And I do agree, if there are somethings you like to do you do not have to give everything up nor should you.
Maybe, but it IS a common issue with many believers. (Thus the books on the subject Dio mentioned.)
They interpret the increase in oxytocin, serotonin, and prolactin levels(as well as others) in the male brain after an orgasm as God's way of telling them it's morally wrong (as in, that 'guilty weird' feeling and/or 'refractory period' males have after an organism).
And I find it really strange that people do not get that the OP's wife is upset over the lack of trust and ability to communicate needs moreso than the actual act of masturbating. He clarified as such in post #36.
The issue here is that of communication and trust. His wife may be insecure, but who don't know that.
It's the closest thing to a universal activity among men that has ever existed. Honestly, not masturbating is FAR more abnormal than doing so
Who's objectifying people? If you objectify women as sexual objects, that's on you dude. Not us.
As for the "heartless" comment, no one is being heartless. If my wife (or anyone, man, woman, or child) expects me to behave differently to enable their insecurity, they got another thing coming. That's not being mean, that's sticking up for our right to have free will.
If you want to consider porn "gross", go right ahead. If you want to subscribe to a religious system that disapproves of porn, that's your right as well. None of that has anything to do with the issue.
This whole situation really has nothing to do with porn at all. Replace porn with playing MTG, or going out with the guys, or watching TV. His wife's issue seems to be that he is paying attention to something other than her. She's insecure, he said so himself. And if she has hangups and insecurities, it's incredibly unfair for her to project them on him.
The problem is you think you need your wife's approval to watch porn. That's the problem. You sound like you have some pretty deep insecurity and co dependance issues yourself, honestly. And you should see someone to start getting over those, cause I guarantee you, this was not about porn.
Your wife is emasculating you. This is not a good thing. And it's going to keep happening. First it'll be pron, then it'll be Magic, then it'll be "having the guys over" and then it will be going out with buddies and not her, and you just get turned into a doormat. That's no way to live.
You have given your wife WAY more power over your personal activities than is healthy, and unequal relationships always end terribly.
I was trying to have a little more tact, but yeah, pretty much this.
Look, it's good to have communication but you don't need permission to masturbate in the privacy of your own home. My gf doesn't ask me if it's okay before she does it, vice versa. Like Valarin said, this isn't really about porn. It's about control. You're allowed to have enough agency to take care of business, ffs...
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"Yes, we're together and we have sex and it's nice, but I also like to stare at other women when you're not around and fantasize about banging them while I rub my *****."
Does that even sound a little off to you?
As for the objectifying thing, using a woman's body strictly to please yourself seems like, well, presenting her as an object of sight and nothing else.
I guess you don't play videogames either. "Yes, I'm a law abiding citizen, but I like to pretend to kill people on weekends."
As in any relationship, the OP and his wife are going to have to come together about what they think on the issue. If you don't want your GF doing it, then you and your GF should talk about it and work it out, as the OP will have to do with his wife. I don't think demonizing the practice will be helpful--you might disagree--but at the end of the day it's not going to matter what you and I think.
I've found that everyone needs a cheap, duty-free thrill at times. Normally its something like buying an ice cream cone or a Magic pack but sometimes its much more basic and primal. Masturbating and looking at porn are ways for people to have that rarest of flowers, an orgasm that is all about you, a gift from yourself to yourself. No caring whether another person is satisfied or content. Its great and totally normal.
And you think she doesn't? Women masturbate too, no matter how close minded you want to be about it. And they have every right to do so. Telling my wife I don't want her to masturbate would be the height of misogyny on my part.
Who said he should say that to his wife?
If you want to start making up ridiculous statements, how about "Honey, I want you to stop doing something you enjoy that is completely harmless because I have body image issues that have nothing to do with you. I also want you to install parental control software on your computer to make sure I can keep controlling your behavior when I am not around. And even though you did nothing wrong I expect you to feel like this is all your fault and feel bad about it"
Does that even sound a little off to you?
Unless you have some really special porn that can reach through the computer screen, watching porn isn't using the woman's body to do anything. You're the one objectifying woman here by considering women who do porn as nothing more that sexual objects waiting to be exploited. That's a very repressed and misogynistic viewpoint.
You call my statements ridiculous but you like to pretend you're omnipitent.
But hey, if youre such a horn dog that you cant go without it, my apologies. I feel bad for you.
To call porn completely harmless is foolish though. I guess the people addicted to or controlled by it arent being harmed whatsoever.
And yes, Im the one objectifying them, considering I dont watch it.
Also, what do you view the women in your porn as then, friends?
I pretty much agree with this.
@OP, communication is key. If you can't talk, write out what needs to be said. It's how I came out to my parents, might work in this situation
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You didn't know? They're hands-on artists painting magical and emotional scenes using their bodies as the brush and occasionally combining their scenes with story telling starting with exposition, leading into rising action (foreplay), ahem climax, falling action and the occasional denouement.
Right Valarin?
Do you play videogames in which people are killed? What do you view those people as?
I used to play Call of Duty.
I shot at some graphics in a strategic war game. I viewed them as graphics.
I don't pretend I'm actually killing people.
I don't have a desire to actually kill people.
I don't get off to the thought of killing people.
There isn't a person who has feelings of "am I not good enough to be killed by him?".
The graphics I shot at weren't recordings of actual people.
I was never in an unhealthy addiction of shooting graphics.
I've never talked to someone who naturally, by the power of their human brain felt disgusted after shooting some graphics. (Although maybe there are some like that out there, but I'd argue not as many as there are who get that reaction from porn and masturbation)
(And you do understand the difference between imagining yourself doing something and actually doing it, I hope? Despite your claims you never imagined yourself doing anything in the videogame.)
Anyway, I don't think the OP is really "addicted" to porn. Additionally, there are many forms of porn that don't involve real people, so I'm not even sure what you're trying to get at.
We have clearly began to discuss the topic in general, Valarin claims porn is completely harmless. I feel otherwise. Addiction isn't healthy, and a lot of people become addicted.
And of course I know the difference between imagining and actually doing something. Do you really want to take that road?
In the game, my goal is to play it and win. Not to fantasize about shooting people up. I don't really see a goal in porn besides fantasizing about the naked women and rubbing one off to it. I just don't feel it's right to indulge in such an act, especially when you have a significant other. I doubt I'll ever be convinced otherwise.
If you wish to devolve this conversation even further and take the route of belittling, I will probably see myself out. You guys have spent thousands of your posts doing this, I think you enjoy it quite a bit more than myself.
So, if you haven't claimed the OP is addicted, how is this talk of addition relevant? Anything can be additive.
We're already on it. That's what we're talking about. The OP did not really cheat on his wife or something.
I wouldn't try and convince you of it. I think it would be easier to convince you that in a videogame you ARE imagining shooting people, and that's how you win.
I'm not trying to belittle you, I'm trying to convince you.
"Tone" is hard to get into a post, and more often than not people project it into text when they read it, not when the other person writes it.
It implies you thought I was claiming he was.
Secondly, I already said Valarin claimed its harmless, that's why I brought up addiction. Therefore it's relevant. Read a little harder, please.
Third, when you ask a question directed to me, with your small text, asking if I know the difference between reality and imagination, how is that not belittling? Clearly there's a difference. I think you can assume I know.
Edit: also, you seem to just argue people's arguing skills. Not the topic at hand. I find this really annoying and this will likely be my last reply. Unless I feel a deep need to give you any more breath. Trying to convince me that I'm imagining killing people when I play the game is pointless, off topic, and just a waste. So is my post right now to a certain extent. So yeah, this is lame. And I made you bust out your quote breaking skills so I should probably tuck tail anyway. Sorry if you misread my tone on this one.
-Curtis
You are watching women have sex with either men/women/machine/or masturbating for the sole purpose of having sexual gratification.
How is that not objectifying what you're watching? You're sure as hell not watching them for anything besides your sexual gratification, unless you enjoy the utterly nonexistent plots and dialogue.
The argument iCwalzy is making is that porn can be harmful. This is true. Is it the case for TS? I don't know. I don't think so, seeing as how the issue here is not that he watches porn.
Studies have shown that people who watch porn frequently to the point of addiction can build an unrealistic expectation of both the act of having sex and how their partner should look. Look them up.
And the emasculating comment is... laughable. Everything seems to be emasculating these days. It's sad, really.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Video_game_addiction
Ok, so we're still on topic then.
Because you said you weren't imagining anything when you played your video game--going out of your way to say you were taking it literally to be graphics and not representations of people--I did not think it was a safe assumption to make at that time, no.
Which is why I asked the question as an aside(not as some snarky thing as you assumed). There ARE people out there that feel thinking about doing something is just about as bad as doing it. Now I know you're not one.
Edit:
If you argument is inconstant then it's wrong by any measure, even its own.
If your logic starts to break down when applied to things YOU like to do, then it's likely a case of special pleading. That's what I'm driving at. For some reason you feel imaginary violence is a-ok, but imaginary sex is not. I am trying to see if that is truly inconstant reasoning, or if you have some legitimate reason I overlooked. Could go either way, IDK yet.
(Btw, if you don't know any of those words, just use google, it'll point you in the right direction. And it's there*, not their. Oh, and earlier it was your* not you're. Oh, and just to say it, the misquote really didn't change what you said, but sure, be sad that I misquoted you.)
Lololololol, bye.
Edit to your edit, read all my posts ITT, you should see why I disagree with porn.
I have one question for iCwalzy.
Why is porn bad in your mind?
First I want to say that I don't agree with all the relationship attacks against you, but I don't think you should take it such. People just have different views.
Second, it occurred to me that there was a possibility that some part of you already felt guilty about watching pornography which is why you and your girlfriend both could agreed not to watch porn and masturbate. That's your choice and maybe you have the best sex life.
But back to my question:
Why is pornography bad and why is it something one should feel guilty for watching/enjoying?
I dont really like the idea of guiltiness, but I dont think you should be remorse free after viewing porn if you have a partner. When I used to watch porn, before I could even clean up my mess, I felt guilty. I felt gross. Not sure why, but that was my natural reaction. Did it stop me? Not at all. Id still watch, enjoy my brief moment of orgasm, then be mad at myself again. (Also, this is before and during My relationship)
Then I pondered if id like my future wife to be viewed in such a way... A tool for sexual pleasure... of course I didnt. So I worried that I was just another person jacking to some guys future wife. And that made me feel bad. Then there are my religious beliefs. Clearly it is wrong according to the bible I study. And again, when I did find my future wife, even I was scared I would compare her to the girls from the screen. Something I dont think is healthy for a relationship. Next, if my gf viewed and masturbated to porn, I would feel as if I wasn't enough for her, or that I couldnt give her a better orgasm than the videos. Thankfully she doesn't. I'm a confident person, but actions like those strip away confidence. And thats what I did to her. Kept looking when we frst got together. She found out and it hurt her, for reasons I understand. I told her she is beautiful, and enough for me, so she said "if I am, why do you need that?" And I realized I didnt. I dont want to be a slave to porn. So I tried to quit, which took awhile. It had power over me. People here say your gf just wants power over you? Well the porn had power over me in this case. However, I didn't just comfort her. I let her know insecurity was bad, and we worked on that. I let her know a "man's need" and we worked on that. Im saving vaginal sex for marriage, but yes, I do have oral sex. And hand sex, whatever you wanna call that. And I get enough, where I dont need porn, I dont even want porn anymore. At first, even if she was gone for two days, I'd run back to it. But thats over now, and I realize we are both much happier. If she is out of town now, she's out of town. Heck, sometimes well even go a few days without anything when we are together. It's because I don't care about it so much. It's an awesome bonus. But she herself is what matters. I'm busy just being in love, I don't necessarily need to always get busy. (Not to say it isn't fun when it happens and I'm down for it whenever) (although addiction to sex, even with just your partner probably isn't good either.)
Btw, please forgive tablet talk. Samsung poop doesnt autocorrect and has a small keyboard.
I just find it funny people say my girlfriend wants to control me..
If you cant make it through a day without masturbation or porn, whats really doing the controlling?
Edit: this has changed a bit as of 12:30am west coast usa time.
Romancing her and making her feel appreciated without doting on her, is also healthy. Doing small things, makes her feel better.
As for the pornography, it's apparent she doesn't condone the physical act itself as uncouth rather the focus of the stimulation. Figure out her your own comfort levels, this is where things can go wrong and go right. And sometimes, it means that she will have to live with certain levels of discomfort and that is something to deal with her to learn to live with.
My wife learned very early on that my rampant bibliophilia was going to be a competitor for relations to such an extent that "I just had to marry the damn nerd" becomes a usual saying. She just took the time to talk about her frustration and became more assertive. Although the approach she used to broach the subject isn't something that I would recommend, "F the book, f me."
I always had since the start of the marriage two things:
1. Keep communications open
2. Be assertive in finding workable solutions to complex problems, be patient things change slowly
I'll add a third caveat, be kind to the other person's beliefs. Her words to begin that debate did hurt my feelings, since I really do value education. Even though in retrospect, it can sound funny. And that's the other thing, these things run their course and understanding things are a process and things you think are a serious problem today breakdown over time to greater worries but as things improve allow you to have built in communication to bigger problems. And I do agree, if there are somethings you like to do you do not have to give everything up nor should you.
"You tired?"
"Yea."
*Gets out of bed*
"God damn nerd."
Ambition must be made to counteract ambition.
Individualities may form communities, but it is institutions alone that can create a nation.
Nothing succeeds like the appearance of success.
Here is my principle: Taxes shall be levied according to ability to pay. That is the only American principle.
For people who say it's fine to leave people to believe what they want to believe, you folks sure do judge a lot.
Edit-
What the hell? I swear I wrote this in response to seeing Taylor's post. Now my post is in front of his?
Forum magic?
And now editing doesn't put the edit mark. Wtf.
Maybe, but it IS a common issue with many believers. (Thus the books on the subject Dio mentioned.)
They interpret the increase in oxytocin, serotonin, and prolactin levels(as well as others) in the male brain after an orgasm as God's way of telling them it's morally wrong (as in, that 'guilty weird' feeling and/or 'refractory period' males have after an organism).