You got hung up on Fantastic Four, so you're ignoring the OP's request until he agrees with you that he should read Fantastic Four.
No one is ignoring the OP, just disagreeing with him. MTGS is probably the wrong place to ask for dating advice, especially if you have conservative values.
The only other thing I can think of is for the OP to seek out ex-Mormons like himself. I typed "ex-Mormon meetup" in Google and got this.
2011: Best Mafia Performance (Individual) - Best Newcomer
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player
The guy comes in and asks "How can I find a girl who meets these specifications?"
You guys come in and say "Those specifications are stupid, you'll never find a girl if you're 21 and not willing to date girls who drink".
Except not.
It's more like, how can I find a girl who meets specifications A, B, C, D, E and F.
And the response is "Maybe you should compromise on some of these." Because he has several strict criteria, not just one.
The drinking just happened to be the one that was used as the example.
You guys haven't actually gave him ANY constructive advice at all that answers the OP.
Not true.
And what was your advice exactly?
"I didn't have any trouble finding a woman who met my criteria*, in fact, I had several that I am totally assuming I could've gotten with. If you were me, you wouldn't have any trouble finding a woman at all! So just hang in there!"
Real helpful.
*Which seem to be less strict than his, although you didn't explicitly lay them out
It's really not my fault that my fellow card game nerds are just horrible at giving relationship advice but you think you're some sort of relationship guru
You don't have to be a relationship guru (and I wouldn't claim to be one) to know that problems in bed break up plenty of marriages and that strict criteria make your dating pool smaller. It's not the height of arrogance to respond to "I can't find a woman who meets my stringent standards" with "Maybe your standards are too stringent."
I'd also invite you to look at jdinatale's history of posts in this sub-forum. My advice to loosen up is also because I think given what he's posted about before, he'd be better off going for a woman who is not uptight.
No, I really don't think it does. Your point appears to be "the people on this forum are incapable of giving good advice", in the past five years I've seen quite the opposite. Dozens upon dozens of threads, all with many different members from varying backgrounds chiming in with advice based on their perspectives and experiences. Poor advice springs up from time to time, but as I said earlier, the members of this forum are not incapable of giving good advice based on their nerdy choice of hobby. Saying otherwise isn't a succinct point, it's flat out incorrect.
As you just saying "no" does absolutely nothing to make your judgmental "advice" look any better.
Not to put too fine a point on it, but literally calling other posters names doesn't make your misrepresented arguments look any more mature.
The guy comes in and asks "How can I find a girl who meets these specifications?"
You guys come in and say "Those specifications are stupid, you'll never find a girl if you're 21 and not willing to date girls who drink".
Again, that's not at all what happened.
You guys haven't actually gave him ANY constructive advice at all that answers the OP.
That is completely untrue. We didn't give the advice the OP wanted to hear, but that doesn't make what was said not constructive. Sometimes people who are looking for advice are the ones causing their own problems, and it's absolutely constructive to point this out. In this case, saying "I understand the frustration in not being able to find a girl that meets your criteria, but it may be because your criteria are very restrictive. Have you thought about reassessing how important some of these are to you? I think there are some that you may be better off compromising on as it would widen your dating pool and maybe make your relationships more successful" is constructive advice. Not what jdinatale wants to hears, but constructive nonetheless.
It's like the equivalent of me posting in this forum asking
"Hey guys, I'm looking to get into Marvel Comics, but don't want to read Fantastic Four because that's not the kind of dynamic I'm looking for."
and you guys come into the thread and go
"You need to open your mind more to reading Fantastic Four, stop being so judgmental and read Fantastic Four."
That's not the same thing at all and you know it.
It's really not my fault that my fellow card game nerds are just horrible at giving relationship advice but you think you're some sort of relationship guru so you're offended at me calling you out for browbeating a guy with different beliefs than you.
I don't think there was one statement in there that was true. "Card game nerds" aren't horrible at giving relationship advice, I don't think I'm a relationship guru, that's not why I was offended (your choice to call posters you disagree with names is what 'offended' me), no one was browbeating the OP, and we don't disagree with him because he has different beliefs (we're just pointing out that his current standards are going to make getting what he wants very hard).
But at the end of the day, I'm just looking for someone who shares the same values as me, which are:
-No premarital sex (This is a tough one in the post-modern world!)
-No drinking (I'm 21, so this one is hard, but not impossible to find)
-Obviously no drugs
-Doesn't like to party (the destructive kind of partying)
-Avoiding foul language (Not a deal breaker, but preferred)
-Strong emphasis on the family unit (as my church emphasizes)
Hi jdinatale,
I'm not here to tell you that you shouldn't believe what you believe. That would be unconscionably arrogant of me, since I believe what I believe, and ain't nobody gonna tell me different.
But, I am curious: why do you hold these values?
Some of these are more apparent than others, of course, since after all there are a lot of people who dislike drugs and alcohol, or like strong families. And that's great! But I'm curious what your intellectual justifications are for the other ones, particularly the premarital sex one. Why is it bad, exactly? What makes it such a dire thing that it makes you rule out the vast majority of your peers as potential romantic partners?
Let us know that, and I think we can give you much better advice.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Sing lustily and with good courage.
Be aware of singing as if you were half dead,
or half asleep:
but lift your voice with strength.
Be no more afraid of your voice now,
nor more ashamed of its being heard,
than when you sang the songs of Satan.
-No drinking (I'm 21, so this one is hard, but not impossible to find)
Then date a woman whose 21+, it avoids the illegality issue and shaky ground. Actually it's a pretty good way to avoid a lot of problems with the fake ID kiddies and so forth. If they did it in the past, didn't get caught and you don't know about it? Don't press the issue.
-Strong emphasis on the family unit (as my church emphasizes)
There's a number of cultures that dove tail nicely with that.
-21 plus
-Forgive past behaviors
-Be more lenient towards swearing and a few others
-No current illegal drug use, no smoking, only drinking in moderation
-Strong family connections, wants children (?)
That would open your dating pool. I'm going to presume you're white. If you're comfortable with dating people outside of your race then do so as well as religion. So I'd ask yourself if you can date a Hindu or a Muslim that's extremely devout in their religion. Not to pressure yourself, but to really look inside and sort out your preferences. If you're only asking out white women in your surrounding town, then you're going to way lower your expectations demographically speaking.
For example, if you're comfortable with marrying a Muslim that's devout in their religion yet open to dating an atheist and there's a strong Kurdish community or something in your area then start making in roads in that direction with networking outside of the white community.
I think it comes down is ideally you want a conservative chick. I would recommend staying away from the zealots that tend to be "reformed whores/drunkards" that are prudish and ultra religious. I've frankly found that those are the types that cling to an extremist behavior and tend not to be wife material even after their conversion towards a religion. They replace the hard life of one with another.
Having an interracial marriage isn't perfect, but if you negotiate how to raise the children and the like it does work. But to be honest if the woman's white Hispanic, the "interracialness" frankly outside of speaking Spanish, if the family still does, becomes rather moot and they'd probably really love you if you learned it as for some it's a pride thing. I'm not Hispanic, but have some white nonHispanic and white Hispanic married friends. My one good friend with her husband and son are beloved by her large and loud family, and they're happy. But like I said, you're going to be off put even dating into that direction. But I think that Hispanics might be good for you if you haven't dated any. Many are white or Mestizo, they're Christian, and they share a lot of the potential values you want like being pro family. As that demographic is rather large.
Asians are also a growing demographic that you can pool from as one of the moderators in this thread attested towards. I would strongly encourage looking at the black community as well. There are many young professional black women that are available and are strong wife material.
What you need to do is get out of your bubble world and join some organizations. You didn't do your mission, that's fine. It can be a useful life changing experience, but savings up the money from the time you're a zygote and not having the religious conviction to spend two years of your life converting people to something you don't believe in is fine. But if you want a woman of convictions then you're going to have to go to where the women of convictions are. Such as volunteering for organizations that have people that share your values such as community development programs and the like.
I mean if you're "culturally Christian" and engage in the rituals, you could always do something like join a black or Hispanic church in your area instead? It would put you into a different pool of people to get to know and date. There are secular Jews and Christians who are faithful to the faith, but do not believe in God. It's weird, I never understood those people but they do exist if you want to be "culturally" a certain way.
I am the complete package, not deficient in any area, and I have many things to offer a potential companion.
And yet you're not married or in a long term relationship because you set your standards too high. I agree with the one poster, "Why do you hold those beliefs." Especially if you have friends that engage in certain behaviors that you can tolerate from them.
I don't believe in recreational drug use and I would not date someone who does use drugs (ethanol) recreationally. That is not to say I would not be friends with people who recreationally drink. In fact, pretty much all of my friends drink.
If you don't see anything wrong with someone who drinks a couple times a week, then you date her. I don't have to because it is not what I am looking for in a companion.
For my handle may say one thing, I can say I rarely drink and have never been drunk. Some of us that socially drink aren't drunks and it doesn't make us bad parents. One parent who doesn't drink modeling abstinence, the other parent modeling for young children how to wisely drink is more than fair. As they have both models and are able to select healthily from option A or option B lifestyle.
Drinking in this culture is a large part of it, I think that's why you may have a very hard time finding such a woman over 21 who doesn't drink from time to time. There are also some cultures, especially Italian and French, who drink wine with every dinner almost. And European women will drink you under the table, which is understandable not wanting to date a heavy drinker. However, a light drinker or moderate drinker are something you may want to heavily rethink.
This is also a point about other cultures that use drinking and food as a large part of their culture, and that sort of intolerance for cultural ethos restricts your findings within the light to moderate drinking when it comes to demographics.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Ambition must be made to counteract ambition.
Individualities may form communities, but it is institutions alone that can create a nation.
Nothing succeeds like the appearance of success.
Here is my principle: Taxes shall be levied according to ability to pay. That is the only American principle.
For the record, I disagree with the assertion that the OP's standards are too high. His standards are his standards, and they aren't unreasonable, and would have been the norm instead of strange in the lifetimes of some of the people posting to this thread.
The comment about 'the complete package' I think is also taken too seriously. As nerds, we have unique ability to both feel superior to those around us and frequently allow ourselves to be doormats or self-ostracize for various reasons.
Jdinatale - Please let me know if you want this thread locked, as it's spiraled off topic quite a bit.
I wouldn't find his standards unreasonably high if he was a Mormon or member of another strict religion.
But most devout people don't want to date atheists, and most irreligious types aren't adamantly opposed to premarital sex or light drinking (because why would you be?). I'm not going to advise him to lie and pretend to be a devout Mormon. That might help him get the girl, but lying about who you are isn't my style.
So that's where the trouble comes in. The problem is more what his standards are relative to what the standards of women who meet his standards are.
"Shame on you for not liking girls who smoke or drink, you should change your personal preferences to our idea of what is acceptable dating standards!"
I don't think anyone is saying "Shame on you". We're pointing out that like it or not, his "values" are going to greatly limit his dating pool.
It's like wanting to go out for Chinese food but saying you will only eat a meal crafted from ingredients harvested on the full moon and prepared by a chef who was born on a Tuesday and served on a plate with a radius of precisely 5.14 inches. Sure, it's your right to be that discriminating, but don't be surprised when you start having difficulties finding a Chinese place to eat.
Like it or not, most people would consider his ideas of what a woman should and should not do to be a little archaic at best, and that's going to make it a lot harder to find someone. His options are to loosen his restrictions and widen his dating pool, or accept that it's going to be a lot harder to find someone who meets his rather stringent criteria. You can't have both.
I wouldn't find his standards unreasonably high if he was a Mormon or member of another strict religion.
But most devout people don't want to date atheists, and most irreligious types aren't adamantly opposed to premarital sex or light drinking (because why would you be?). I'm not going to advise him to lie and pretend to be a devout Mormon. That might help him get the girl, but lying about who you are isn't my style.
So that's where the trouble comes in. The problem is more what his standards are relative to what the standards of women who meet his standards are.
See, this is why I disagree with you.
My mom in her twenties didn't drink, didn't have premarital sex, and virtually fit everything jdintale wrote in his desires. My mom also happened to have absolutely no religion in his twenties. Rather, she was a product of her Korean culture.
Are you going to say that 80s Korean culture is wrong?
You are equating his desires to his religion, and your reasons for disapproving of his desires rather thinly-veiled, no matter how you sugar-coat it.
People who match jdintale's desires exist. I've seen plenty. They were not Christian, or religious in any particular way. For the most part, they also happened to be very ambitious and strong-willed. Given what I know of jdintale (obviously limited), they would break him. They abstain from all those things because of their own particular beliefs in virtues and desire to succeed in life; not because they're prudes or religious.
You're effectively taking your own life-view and cultural standards and thinking that it's the norm. Given how bloody ****ing big the U.S. is, I don't think that works.
Well, I have a feeling that being open to traditional Korean women (who must be willing to marry a white guy) won't expand his dating pool all that much. Assuming he'd even be interested.
But I never said there are no women like that. Hence why I qualified my statements with words like "most" and "tend to".
Of course, moving to another city is another option he might consider. We don't know where he lives, but assuming it's in a heavily Mormon area, that excludes any major cities (unless you count Salt Lake City). Those areas also tend to be heavily white (Utah is 95% white), so it's not like there's a huge population of non-Mormon Asians there either.
Basically any large city is going to make it a lot easier to find another irreligious person who meet his criteria through online dating.
Also, I never said I didn't disapprove of or judge his values. That doesn't mean there's no value to what I'm saying, however. Nor does it make it inaccurate when I talk about how much that limits his dating pool. Assuming he lives near Salt Lake City... 2.4% of the SLC metro is Asian. Some of them, especially first-generation immigrants, won't want to date a white guy. Many of them are Mormon or other Christian and some of those may not be interested in dating an atheist. A great many of them also drink or have premarital sex, particularly those who were raised in the US. But congratulations, the example of your Korean mother shows how extensive his dating options truly are.
(Also, I'm sure there are plenty of things about 80s Korean culture I'd consider wrong. I don't exactly find American culture flawless either.)
Also I'm going to quit beating around the bush since his earlier threads are still publicly visible, but he's brought up issues with gender confusion and hypogonadism (which could cause fertility problems) in the past. This is part of why I think it would be better for him to avoid the uptight devout types.
You completely missed my point, which isn't all that surprising at this point.
The point with my mother wasn't on her being Korean. I meant to convey the fact that there are non-religious people who would share jdinate's values, and to directly counter this-"I wouldn't find his standards unreasonably high if he was a Mormon or member of another strict religion."
The implication behind your statement is that those who are not religious and maintain said standards would be having it unreasonably high.
I said no, it is not. If you think that way, then you are placing your own personal cultural views into the mainstream view. Which you cannot do because the U.S. is incredibly large.
The fact that you equate his high standards with his religion is another thing I consider questionable. There are plenty of women who are not religious and still maintain a high standard.
The implication is that there aren't many people who would meet those standards and be willing to date an atheist.
You inferred incorrectly.
Also the fact that the US is incredibly large isn't really a point, despite you thinking it is.
I don't find it hard not to drink or do drugs. I haven't had a drink in over a month, and I've gone much longer than that in the past. I haven't used any drugs in a couple years. I just don't see the point in abstaining for the sake of abstaining. I don't enjoy drinking enough to want to do it all the time, but every once in a while it's nice. It is an expensive habit as well. If I needed to abstain for some reason (some kind of job where it was not allowed, a medical condition, or whatever) it wouldn't be any trouble whatsoever.
This isn't based on me thinking that not drinking is very hard (although it is for some people). It's based on me thinking that not drinking doesn't make you better than someone who drinks in moderation.
The fact that you equate his high standards with his religion is another thing I consider questionable.
It's pretty obvious they came from his (former) religion. He said so himself.
Also I don't call them "high" standards. They're stringent.
There are plenty of women who are not religious and still maintain a high standard.
"Maintain a high standard"
I don't think there's anything "higher" about being a teetotaler or having abstinence until marriage. That's my whole point, and you and he are whining about me calling that a judgmental view.
Anyway, there may be plenty of women in an absolute sense. But relative to the size of the population? Not really.
I know many, many atheists, and I can't think of a single one that expresses a requirement of abstinence until marriage. Because the whole notion of that being necessary is a religious one. Some of them don't drink or do drugs, but they don't seem any less likely to drink and seem more likely to smoke marijuana. And they certainly all swear at least sometimes.
Are there no atheists like that? No, I wouldn't say that. But it's only a small minority of them who meet all of his standards.
Just to throw this out there for the OP and to disprove Ermir:
I am agnostic and was a virgin until my wife and I were Engaged... I also knew a girl in College that was a very liberal Atheist and held the view that she was not going to have sex until she was in a commit relationship for long enough to know that she wanted to marry the guy...
Some people, even non-religious people still see sex as something special to only share with one person if possible.
Unfortunately for OP that girl drinks like a fish... but you just have to find the right mix.
I know many, many atheists, and I can't think of a single one that expresses a requirement of abstinence until marriage. Because the whole notion of that being necessary is a religious one. Some of them don't drink or do drugs, but they don't seem any less likely to drink and seem more likely to smoke marijuana. And they certainly all swear at least sometimes.
Are there no atheists like that? No, I wouldn't say that. But it's only a small minority of them who meet all of his standards.
And I know many, many atheists or agnostics who are the complete opposite.
Hence the reason I brought up the size of the U.S. There are a lot of people, and a lot of space. People within the same presumable category, atheists for example, will still fall into a variety of other categories. Just because you're an atheist doesn't mean you're going to think drinking a lot and premarital sex are fine.
It is merely about the values that you grow up in.
And, yes, "higher" was poor word choice on my part. Strict is far more appropriate.
I don't think anyone in this thread is arguing that a perfect match for the OP doesn't exist. Not emerir, not OP himself, not anyone. Girls with those values do exist. That's pretty obvious given the number of people on this planet. The problem and point of this thread is that finding them is not the easiest task, because they are few and far between relatively speaking. The presuppositions that people with an atheist worldview tend to hold lead them to reach different conclusions about what values are important. That's just the way it is.
OP, despite being outside the norm, you're welcome to hold these values. I'm not gonna rehash the whole argument, but I agree with every word emerir has said though. Some of your requirements make less sense than others. I would just encourage you to genuinely ponder why you hold these beliefs. If you conclude that these are absolutely deal-breakers, then far be it for anyone to tell you otherwise. In that case, online dating is the only way to make your dating pool large enough.
Hey guys, I've been at an REU which is why I haven't responded. But instead of quoting every single person, I'll make a general response.
Why do you want a girl with most or even all of the same values as you?
1. People are generally more comfortable around those similar to themselves. People like that which is familiar.
2. Less disagreement if we share beliefs and values.
3. When raising kids with a future wife, if there's this fundamental value and I want to teach my child value X and the wife wants to teach the child value Y, and those values conflict...then there's going to be a disagreement. For instance, if I teach my kids to avoid alcohol all together, yet my wife says drinking is no big deal...then that will be problematic.
Why do you have those particular values?
I will admit, most of them come down to how I was raised and what makes me comfortable. But a lot of them are practical.
-I believe in abstaining from all addicting substances that could impair judgment like alcohol, or any recreational drug.
-I'm saving sex for marriage because I want it to be with the girl I'll spend the rest of my life with (hopefully), and I think it would be more special and meaningful to me.
-I believe there are more intelligent ways to express oneself than with vulgar language. (not putting down anyone who cusses, do not misconstrue this post.) My last girlfriend, when angry, said d***, s***, and h***, but it did not bother me. Sometimes we say these things when angry...but again, I want to avoid it.
-I think it's reasonable to not want to be with a girl who does the destructive type of partying. Of course I don't mean birthday parties or social events. The parties where people black out and things are done that are later regretted.
-I value someone who will want to spend time together as a family with the children and do family activities together. I want our family to be really close to each other (emotionally), because some families are not there for each other. Is that really unreasonable?
Your values are unreasonable.
I don't get this one. I did not say, "I want to marry a young blonde super model with measurements x, y, z from Brazil who graduated from Harvard and is a medical doctor on top of all that." I simply want someone with most, or even all if possible, of the values that I have.
You'll be sitting around forever waiting.
Not true, my last two girlfriends had all of these values. I know they exist. The point is that they are hard to find, and it is compounded by the fact that these girls are Mormon and I am this Mormon-Atheist hybrid (I've honestly never even heard of that before)
You should multiclass rather than hybrid- you lose less class features that way. </d&djoke>
I'll echo the previous sentiments about building an online dating profile- There are undoubtedly other women looking for this specific set of values (or are willing to make a compromise on the small stuff like alcohol or swearing) and I'd think that if they come across a profile where you explicitly state your values, they'll be inclined to give you a chance even if the other stuff doesn't line up as well. Although I'd probably be careful on how you state it, because they might think you're uptight if you just list all of your dealbreakers. Instead, just explain that this is the way you were raised and it would just be uncomfortable or awkward any other way.
You may not get many replies, but the ones that do reply will be worth considering. It'll probably have to start off as a long-distance relationship too, which could be hard, but it's better than nothing at all.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Mono-Colored EDH 1 Ulamog 1 ◊ W Avacyn W ◊ U Memnarch U◊ B Endrek B◊ R Urabrask R ◊ G YevaG
Not true, my last two girlfriends had all of these values. I know they exist. The point is that they are hard to find, and it is compounded by the fact that these girls are Mormon and I am this Mormon-Atheist hybrid (I've honestly never even heard of that before)
Considering you're "the complete package," why are you no longer with either of these girls? If you have found (twice) the ideal partner for yourself, what happened? Or why not both? Aren't Mormons polygamists?
Knowledge Pool count: 308
Looking for Knowledge Pools! All languages, conditions, foil/non-foil, etc. PM me with your Pools and we can work something out
-I believe in abstaining from all addicting substances that could impair judgment like alcohol, or any recreational drug.
-I'm saving sex for marriage because I want it to be with the girl I'll spend the rest of my life with (hopefully), and I think it would be more special and meaningful to me.
Okay, fair. But see below.
Quote from jdinatale »
-I believe there are more intelligent ways to express oneself than with vulgar language. (not putting down anyone who cusses, do not misconstrue this post.) My last girlfriend, when angry, said d***, s***, and h***, but it did not bother me. Sometimes we say these things when angry...but again, I want to avoid it.
Well, here's a question: is this a big enough deal to you that you're willing to rule out a person if they'll occasionally swear casually? Because this really will restrict your pool a lot.
Quote from jdinatale »
You'll be sitting around forever waiting.
Not true, my last two girlfriends had all of these values. I know they exist. The point is that they are hard to find, and it is compounded by the fact that these girls are Mormon and I am this Mormon-Atheist hybrid (I've honestly never even heard of that before)
I don't think anyone's saying you'll stick around forever, but...
You yourself acknowledge that your dating pool is incredibly limited, because not only do you need someone who
-- doesn't have sex
-- doesn't drink
-- doesn't smoke
-- doesn't swear
-- doesn't party
-- is big into family
...you also want someone who
-- you like, and
-- who likes you.
Let's say there are ten thousand single girls where you live. This is probably generous, but I don't know where you live, and hey, it's a big round number.
First off, let's say that probably 75% of them have had sex before in their lives--that's what surveys suggest for young, unmarried women. So you're already down to 25% of the dating pool.
Second, let's assume that 80% of women either drink or smoke, which is also a pretty reasonable number. Let's say some of them have sex but don't drink or smoke, so this restricts your dating pool to maybe around 15%.
Let's set aside the partying, the swearing, and the family part; most of those will decline as they get older, and the first one probably correlates pretty well to those who drink or smoke.
But you see the problem already? You're down to 1500 possible girls who theoretically match your criteria. How many of them, given the values you're requiring, are going to be religious? If it's anything over 50%, you're down to a needle in a haystack territory--and that's assuming, by the way, that you find any of those 6-700 girls attractive and funny and pleasant and kind, and they think the same about you.
I'm not saying it's impossible to find that girl, and clearly you've found girls who came pretty close (your ex-girlfriends)... but they're ex-girlfriends for a reason, you know? They weren't perfect, they weren't the one. And your odds of finding "the one" from a pool of 600 girls out of ten thousand aren't great.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Sing lustily and with good courage.
Be aware of singing as if you were half dead,
or half asleep:
but lift your voice with strength.
Be no more afraid of your voice now,
nor more ashamed of its being heard,
than when you sang the songs of Satan.
And here I was getting all ready to jump down Erimir's throat for derailing an advice thread in order to borderline flame a guy just for having different sets of standards than him when it comes to dating.
And then you had to go with the whole "complete package" thing.
I said he'd be better off relaxing his standards and not being so zero-tolerance with them. He'd be more likely to find someone who is more flexible herself. And he'd increase the size of his dating pool.
Bullcrap. You were attacking him for proclaiming himself better than other people, when that wasn't necessarily what he was doing.
I'm not here to tell you that you shouldn't believe what you believe. That would be unconscionably arrogant of me, since I believe what I believe, and ain't nobody gonna tell me different.
But, I am curious: why do you hold these values?
Some of these are more apparent than others, of course, since after all there are a lot of people who dislike drugs and alcohol, or like strong families. And that's great! But I'm curious what your intellectual justifications are for the other ones, particularly the premarital sex one. Why is it bad, exactly? What makes it such a dire thing that it makes you rule out the vast majority of your peers as potential romantic partners?
Let us know that, and I think we can give you much better advice.
I echo these questions. If you're not Mormon anymore, why then adhere rigidly to Mormon ethical stances when determining dating criteria?
Now, if it is indeed because you've thought about them, and I'm talking about having really thought about them, not just once but regularly, and you've come to the same conclusions, that's fine.
But ask yourself: is that really the case, is that really what I believe, or is that something I think is right because I grew up with someone telling me it's right?
Bullcrap. You were attacking him for proclaiming himself better than other people, when that wasn't necessarily what he was doing.
I echo these questions. If you're not Mormon anymore, why then adhere rigidly to Mormon ethical stances when determining dating criteria?
Now, if it is indeed because you've thought about them, and I'm talking about having really thought about them, not just once but regularly, and you've come to the same conclusions, that's fine.
But ask yourself: is that really the case, is that really what I believe, or is that something I think is right because I grew up with someone telling me it's right?
Well, I thought I did a good job of explaining why I hold the beliefs that I do and that it isn't JUST because of how I was raised, or because what I previously thought God commanded.
Expounding on what I said:
-I don't believe in using addicting substances or ones which could impair judgment. So this rules out illicit substances as well as legal ones like alcohol or tobacco.
-Again, I'm saving sex for marriage because I feel that it would be more special to share this with the girl who I will hopefully be spending the rest of my life with. A practical benefit is that is that abstinence means no risk of STD's or unwanted pregnancies outside of marriage.
-Cursing is NOT a deal breaker, but I'd prefer my girlfriend to avoid foul language whenever possible. My two other girlfriends have occasionally cursed when angry and I didn't care. Sometimes such things are said when we are angry. But I don't want the girl to regularly use cursing to express herself because there are more dignified and intelligent ways to do so than with vulgarity. Like attraction is just killed when I hear a girl dropping the f-bomb left and right. A major turn off for me.
-Again, I have nothing wrong with freaking birthday parties or social gatherings....but destructive parties in which people are blacking out and doing other things that they will regret later....I don't think those parties are wholesome activities.
-And finally, I'm looking someone who will enjoy being a mother and spending time together with the kids and me for quality family times. Growing up my sisters, my mom and I were extremely close, and I would like my future family to grow up emotionally and spiritually close together and have each other's backs.
Now, cursing is NOT a deal breaker, and if someone doesn't do elicit substances or alcohol/tobacco, then they likely wouldn't party to begin with. So really, there's only three qualities that I can't compromise - Sex before marriage, someone who places a strong emphasis on the family and making it a strong unit, and someone who doesn't use alcohol/tobacco/drugs.
And I just do not see how wanting these three things makes me unreasonable.
I will emphasize that I am not making some ludicrous demand that my gf must have blonde hair and blue eyes and be a super model and be a lawyer who went to Harvard and be rich and work while I get to stay at home or anything ridiculous like that.
I simply want someone who has a handful of values that we can share together and teach our kids together.
If only I was still Mormon, girls like this would be a dime a dozen. But I'm not technically a Mormon, I'm an atheist. And Mormon women want to reach the highest degree of heavenly glory and to do that they must marry a Mormon guy in the temple....which they can't do with an atheist, no matter how good of a person he might be.
So either I have to go back to church and pretend to be a Mormon or I have to go on this endless search for this very rare and elusive girl who would be fine with marrying an atheist with these Mormon values. Or just settle for less than what I want.
So really, there's only three qualities that I can't compromise - Sex before marriage, someone who places a strong emphasis on the family and making it a strong unit, and someone who doesn't use alcohol/tobacco/drugs.
And I just do not see how wanting these three things makes me unreasonable.
It doesn't. It does make your search harder, but it doesn't make you unreasonable.
So either I have to go back to church and pretend to be a Mormon or I have to go on this endless search for this very rare and elusive girl who would be fine with marrying an atheist with these Mormon values. Or just settle for less than what I want.
Never settle for less than what you want. Reassess if what you want is truly what you want and worth waiting for, but don't settle because the search is hard. Settling is one of the worst ways to ruin your life.
So really, there's only three qualities that I can't compromise - Sex before marriage, someone who places a strong emphasis on the family and making it a strong unit, and someone who doesn't use alcohol/tobacco/drugs.
And I just do not see how wanting these three things makes me unreasonable.
jdinatale, I don't think anyone is saying these values are inherently unreasonable, and if you're getting that impression I apologize on their behalf.
What we're saying is that girls who share these values and are not religious and looking for a religious man are, if not vanishingly rare, at least quite uncommon.
Again, you're looking at best at around 5% of the population of single women in your area, and perhaps even less than that. Do you really want, right off the bat, to rule out 95% of women?
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Sing lustily and with good courage.
Be aware of singing as if you were half dead,
or half asleep:
but lift your voice with strength.
Be no more afraid of your voice now,
nor more ashamed of its being heard,
than when you sang the songs of Satan.
To post a comment, please login or register a new account.
No one is ignoring the OP, just disagreeing with him. MTGS is probably the wrong place to ask for dating advice, especially if you have conservative values.
The only other thing I can think of is for the OP to seek out ex-Mormons like himself. I typed "ex-Mormon meetup" in Google and got this.
{мы, тьма}
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player
It's more like, how can I find a girl who meets specifications A, B, C, D, E and F.
And the response is "Maybe you should compromise on some of these." Because he has several strict criteria, not just one.
The drinking just happened to be the one that was used as the example.
Not true.
And what was your advice exactly?
"I didn't have any trouble finding a woman who met my criteria*, in fact, I had several that I am totally assuming I could've gotten with. If you were me, you wouldn't have any trouble finding a woman at all! So just hang in there!"
Real helpful.
*Which seem to be less strict than his, although you didn't explicitly lay them out
You don't have to be a relationship guru (and I wouldn't claim to be one) to know that problems in bed break up plenty of marriages and that strict criteria make your dating pool smaller. It's not the height of arrogance to respond to "I can't find a woman who meets my stringent standards" with "Maybe your standards are too stringent."
I'd also invite you to look at jdinatale's history of posts in this sub-forum. My advice to loosen up is also because I think given what he's posted about before, he'd be better off going for a woman who is not uptight.
No, I really don't think it does. Your point appears to be "the people on this forum are incapable of giving good advice", in the past five years I've seen quite the opposite. Dozens upon dozens of threads, all with many different members from varying backgrounds chiming in with advice based on their perspectives and experiences. Poor advice springs up from time to time, but as I said earlier, the members of this forum are not incapable of giving good advice based on their nerdy choice of hobby. Saying otherwise isn't a succinct point, it's flat out incorrect.
Not to put too fine a point on it, but literally calling other posters names doesn't make your misrepresented arguments look any more mature.
Again, that's not at all what happened.
That is completely untrue. We didn't give the advice the OP wanted to hear, but that doesn't make what was said not constructive. Sometimes people who are looking for advice are the ones causing their own problems, and it's absolutely constructive to point this out. In this case, saying "I understand the frustration in not being able to find a girl that meets your criteria, but it may be because your criteria are very restrictive. Have you thought about reassessing how important some of these are to you? I think there are some that you may be better off compromising on as it would widen your dating pool and maybe make your relationships more successful" is constructive advice. Not what jdinatale wants to hears, but constructive nonetheless.
That's not the same thing at all and you know it.
I don't think there was one statement in there that was true. "Card game nerds" aren't horrible at giving relationship advice, I don't think I'm a relationship guru, that's not why I was offended (your choice to call posters you disagree with names is what 'offended' me), no one was browbeating the OP, and we don't disagree with him because he has different beliefs (we're just pointing out that his current standards are going to make getting what he wants very hard).
Archatmos
Excellion
Fracture: Israfiel (WBR), Wujal (URG), Valedon (GUB), Amduat (BGW), Paladris (RWU)
Collision (Set Two of the Fracture Block)
Quest for the Forsaken (Set Two of the Excellion Block)
Katingal: Plane of Chains
Hi jdinatale,
I'm not here to tell you that you shouldn't believe what you believe. That would be unconscionably arrogant of me, since I believe what I believe, and ain't nobody gonna tell me different.
But, I am curious: why do you hold these values?
Some of these are more apparent than others, of course, since after all there are a lot of people who dislike drugs and alcohol, or like strong families. And that's great! But I'm curious what your intellectual justifications are for the other ones, particularly the premarital sex one. Why is it bad, exactly? What makes it such a dire thing that it makes you rule out the vast majority of your peers as potential romantic partners?
Let us know that, and I think we can give you much better advice.
Be aware of singing as if you were half dead,
or half asleep:
but lift your voice with strength.
Be no more afraid of your voice now,
nor more ashamed of its being heard,
than when you sang the songs of Satan.
Yea, good luck on that one.
Then date a woman whose 21+, it avoids the illegality issue and shaky ground. Actually it's a pretty good way to avoid a lot of problems with the fake ID kiddies and so forth. If they did it in the past, didn't get caught and you don't know about it? Don't press the issue.
Easy mode to operate under if you include people who are ex-drug users to only the current era that they are using.
Fairly easy, there are many career oriented women with that.
That changes after the kids come for many women, but no you're not going to find someone like that.
There's a number of cultures that dove tail nicely with that.
-21 plus
-Forgive past behaviors
-Be more lenient towards swearing and a few others
-No current illegal drug use, no smoking, only drinking in moderation
-Strong family connections, wants children (?)
That would open your dating pool. I'm going to presume you're white. If you're comfortable with dating people outside of your race then do so as well as religion. So I'd ask yourself if you can date a Hindu or a Muslim that's extremely devout in their religion. Not to pressure yourself, but to really look inside and sort out your preferences. If you're only asking out white women in your surrounding town, then you're going to way lower your expectations demographically speaking.
For example, if you're comfortable with marrying a Muslim that's devout in their religion yet open to dating an atheist and there's a strong Kurdish community or something in your area then start making in roads in that direction with networking outside of the white community.
I think it comes down is ideally you want a conservative chick. I would recommend staying away from the zealots that tend to be "reformed whores/drunkards" that are prudish and ultra religious. I've frankly found that those are the types that cling to an extremist behavior and tend not to be wife material even after their conversion towards a religion. They replace the hard life of one with another.
Having an interracial marriage isn't perfect, but if you negotiate how to raise the children and the like it does work. But to be honest if the woman's white Hispanic, the "interracialness" frankly outside of speaking Spanish, if the family still does, becomes rather moot and they'd probably really love you if you learned it as for some it's a pride thing. I'm not Hispanic, but have some white nonHispanic and white Hispanic married friends. My one good friend with her husband and son are beloved by her large and loud family, and they're happy. But like I said, you're going to be off put even dating into that direction. But I think that Hispanics might be good for you if you haven't dated any. Many are white or Mestizo, they're Christian, and they share a lot of the potential values you want like being pro family. As that demographic is rather large.
Asians are also a growing demographic that you can pool from as one of the moderators in this thread attested towards. I would strongly encourage looking at the black community as well. There are many young professional black women that are available and are strong wife material.
What you need to do is get out of your bubble world and join some organizations. You didn't do your mission, that's fine. It can be a useful life changing experience, but savings up the money from the time you're a zygote and not having the religious conviction to spend two years of your life converting people to something you don't believe in is fine. But if you want a woman of convictions then you're going to have to go to where the women of convictions are. Such as volunteering for organizations that have people that share your values such as community development programs and the like.
I mean if you're "culturally Christian" and engage in the rituals, you could always do something like join a black or Hispanic church in your area instead? It would put you into a different pool of people to get to know and date. There are secular Jews and Christians who are faithful to the faith, but do not believe in God. It's weird, I never understood those people but they do exist if you want to be "culturally" a certain way.
And yet you're not married or in a long term relationship because you set your standards too high. I agree with the one poster, "Why do you hold those beliefs." Especially if you have friends that engage in certain behaviors that you can tolerate from them.
For my handle may say one thing, I can say I rarely drink and have never been drunk. Some of us that socially drink aren't drunks and it doesn't make us bad parents. One parent who doesn't drink modeling abstinence, the other parent modeling for young children how to wisely drink is more than fair. As they have both models and are able to select healthily from option A or option B lifestyle.
Drinking in this culture is a large part of it, I think that's why you may have a very hard time finding such a woman over 21 who doesn't drink from time to time. There are also some cultures, especially Italian and French, who drink wine with every dinner almost. And European women will drink you under the table, which is understandable not wanting to date a heavy drinker. However, a light drinker or moderate drinker are something you may want to heavily rethink.
This is also a point about other cultures that use drinking and food as a large part of their culture, and that sort of intolerance for cultural ethos restricts your findings within the light to moderate drinking when it comes to demographics.
Ambition must be made to counteract ambition.
Individualities may form communities, but it is institutions alone that can create a nation.
Nothing succeeds like the appearance of success.
Here is my principle: Taxes shall be levied according to ability to pay. That is the only American principle.
The comment about 'the complete package' I think is also taken too seriously. As nerds, we have unique ability to both feel superior to those around us and frequently allow ourselves to be doormats or self-ostracize for various reasons.
Jdinatale - Please let me know if you want this thread locked, as it's spiraled off topic quite a bit.
TerribleBad at Magic since 1998.A Vorthos Guide to Magic Story | Twitter | Tumblr
[Primer] Krenko | Azor | Kess | Zacama | Kumena | Sram | The Ur-Dragon | Edgar Markov | Daretti | Marath
But most devout people don't want to date atheists, and most irreligious types aren't adamantly opposed to premarital sex or light drinking (because why would you be?). I'm not going to advise him to lie and pretend to be a devout Mormon. That might help him get the girl, but lying about who you are isn't my style.
So that's where the trouble comes in. The problem is more what his standards are relative to what the standards of women who meet his standards are.
I don't think anyone is saying "Shame on you". We're pointing out that like it or not, his "values" are going to greatly limit his dating pool.
It's like wanting to go out for Chinese food but saying you will only eat a meal crafted from ingredients harvested on the full moon and prepared by a chef who was born on a Tuesday and served on a plate with a radius of precisely 5.14 inches. Sure, it's your right to be that discriminating, but don't be surprised when you start having difficulties finding a Chinese place to eat.
Like it or not, most people would consider his ideas of what a woman should and should not do to be a little archaic at best, and that's going to make it a lot harder to find someone. His options are to loosen his restrictions and widen his dating pool, or accept that it's going to be a lot harder to find someone who meets his rather stringent criteria. You can't have both.
See, this is why I disagree with you.
My mom in her twenties didn't drink, didn't have premarital sex, and virtually fit everything jdintale wrote in his desires. My mom also happened to have absolutely no religion in his twenties. Rather, she was a product of her Korean culture.
Are you going to say that 80s Korean culture is wrong?
You are equating his desires to his religion, and your reasons for disapproving of his desires rather thinly-veiled, no matter how you sugar-coat it.
People who match jdintale's desires exist. I've seen plenty. They were not Christian, or religious in any particular way. For the most part, they also happened to be very ambitious and strong-willed. Given what I know of jdintale (obviously limited), they would break him. They abstain from all those things because of their own particular beliefs in virtues and desire to succeed in life; not because they're prudes or religious.
You're effectively taking your own life-view and cultural standards and thinking that it's the norm. Given how bloody ****ing big the U.S. is, I don't think that works.
But I never said there are no women like that. Hence why I qualified my statements with words like "most" and "tend to".
Of course, moving to another city is another option he might consider. We don't know where he lives, but assuming it's in a heavily Mormon area, that excludes any major cities (unless you count Salt Lake City). Those areas also tend to be heavily white (Utah is 95% white), so it's not like there's a huge population of non-Mormon Asians there either.
Basically any large city is going to make it a lot easier to find another irreligious person who meet his criteria through online dating.
Also, I never said I didn't disapprove of or judge his values. That doesn't mean there's no value to what I'm saying, however. Nor does it make it inaccurate when I talk about how much that limits his dating pool. Assuming he lives near Salt Lake City... 2.4% of the SLC metro is Asian. Some of them, especially first-generation immigrants, won't want to date a white guy. Many of them are Mormon or other Christian and some of those may not be interested in dating an atheist. A great many of them also drink or have premarital sex, particularly those who were raised in the US. But congratulations, the example of your Korean mother shows how extensive his dating options truly are.
(Also, I'm sure there are plenty of things about 80s Korean culture I'd consider wrong. I don't exactly find American culture flawless either.)
Also I'm going to quit beating around the bush since his earlier threads are still publicly visible, but he's brought up issues with gender confusion and hypogonadism (which could cause fertility problems) in the past. This is part of why I think it would be better for him to avoid the uptight devout types.
The point with my mother wasn't on her being Korean. I meant to convey the fact that there are non-religious people who would share jdinate's values, and to directly counter this-"I wouldn't find his standards unreasonably high if he was a Mormon or member of another strict religion."
The implication behind your statement is that those who are not religious and maintain said standards would be having it unreasonably high.
I said no, it is not. If you think that way, then you are placing your own personal cultural views into the mainstream view. Which you cannot do because the U.S. is incredibly large.
The fact that you equate his high standards with his religion is another thing I consider questionable. There are plenty of women who are not religious and still maintain a high standard.
You inferred incorrectly.
Also the fact that the US is incredibly large isn't really a point, despite you thinking it is.
I don't find it hard not to drink or do drugs. I haven't had a drink in over a month, and I've gone much longer than that in the past. I haven't used any drugs in a couple years. I just don't see the point in abstaining for the sake of abstaining. I don't enjoy drinking enough to want to do it all the time, but every once in a while it's nice. It is an expensive habit as well. If I needed to abstain for some reason (some kind of job where it was not allowed, a medical condition, or whatever) it wouldn't be any trouble whatsoever.
This isn't based on me thinking that not drinking is very hard (although it is for some people). It's based on me thinking that not drinking doesn't make you better than someone who drinks in moderation.
It's pretty obvious they came from his (former) religion. He said so himself.
Also I don't call them "high" standards. They're stringent.
"Maintain a high standard"
I don't think there's anything "higher" about being a teetotaler or having abstinence until marriage. That's my whole point, and you and he are whining about me calling that a judgmental view.
Anyway, there may be plenty of women in an absolute sense. But relative to the size of the population? Not really.
I know many, many atheists, and I can't think of a single one that expresses a requirement of abstinence until marriage. Because the whole notion of that being necessary is a religious one. Some of them don't drink or do drugs, but they don't seem any less likely to drink and seem more likely to smoke marijuana. And they certainly all swear at least sometimes.
Are there no atheists like that? No, I wouldn't say that. But it's only a small minority of them who meet all of his standards.
TerribleBad at Magic since 1998.A Vorthos Guide to Magic Story | Twitter | Tumblr
[Primer] Krenko | Azor | Kess | Zacama | Kumena | Sram | The Ur-Dragon | Edgar Markov | Daretti | Marath
I am agnostic and was a virgin until my wife and I were Engaged... I also knew a girl in College that was a very liberal Atheist and held the view that she was not going to have sex until she was in a commit relationship for long enough to know that she wanted to marry the guy...
Some people, even non-religious people still see sex as something special to only share with one person if possible.
Unfortunately for OP that girl drinks like a fish... but you just have to find the right mix.
And I know many, many atheists or agnostics who are the complete opposite.
Hence the reason I brought up the size of the U.S. There are a lot of people, and a lot of space. People within the same presumable category, atheists for example, will still fall into a variety of other categories. Just because you're an atheist doesn't mean you're going to think drinking a lot and premarital sex are fine.
It is merely about the values that you grow up in.
And, yes, "higher" was poor word choice on my part. Strict is far more appropriate.
Anyways, I'm out from this.
OP, despite being outside the norm, you're welcome to hold these values. I'm not gonna rehash the whole argument, but I agree with every word emerir has said though. Some of your requirements make less sense than others. I would just encourage you to genuinely ponder why you hold these beliefs. If you conclude that these are absolutely deal-breakers, then far be it for anyone to tell you otherwise. In that case, online dating is the only way to make your dating pool large enough.
Why do you want a girl with most or even all of the same values as you?
1. People are generally more comfortable around those similar to themselves. People like that which is familiar.
2. Less disagreement if we share beliefs and values.
3. When raising kids with a future wife, if there's this fundamental value and I want to teach my child value X and the wife wants to teach the child value Y, and those values conflict...then there's going to be a disagreement. For instance, if I teach my kids to avoid alcohol all together, yet my wife says drinking is no big deal...then that will be problematic.
Why do you have those particular values?
I will admit, most of them come down to how I was raised and what makes me comfortable. But a lot of them are practical.
-I believe in abstaining from all addicting substances that could impair judgment like alcohol, or any recreational drug.
-I'm saving sex for marriage because I want it to be with the girl I'll spend the rest of my life with (hopefully), and I think it would be more special and meaningful to me.
-I believe there are more intelligent ways to express oneself than with vulgar language. (not putting down anyone who cusses, do not misconstrue this post.) My last girlfriend, when angry, said d***, s***, and h***, but it did not bother me. Sometimes we say these things when angry...but again, I want to avoid it.
-I think it's reasonable to not want to be with a girl who does the destructive type of partying. Of course I don't mean birthday parties or social events. The parties where people black out and things are done that are later regretted.
-I value someone who will want to spend time together as a family with the children and do family activities together. I want our family to be really close to each other (emotionally), because some families are not there for each other. Is that really unreasonable?
Your values are unreasonable.
I don't get this one. I did not say, "I want to marry a young blonde super model with measurements x, y, z from Brazil who graduated from Harvard and is a medical doctor on top of all that." I simply want someone with most, or even all if possible, of the values that I have.
You'll be sitting around forever waiting.
Not true, my last two girlfriends had all of these values. I know they exist. The point is that they are hard to find, and it is compounded by the fact that these girls are Mormon and I am this Mormon-Atheist hybrid (I've honestly never even heard of that before)
--
You should multiclass rather than hybrid- you lose less class features that way. </d&djoke>
I'll echo the previous sentiments about building an online dating profile- There are undoubtedly other women looking for this specific set of values (or are willing to make a compromise on the small stuff like alcohol or swearing) and I'd think that if they come across a profile where you explicitly state your values, they'll be inclined to give you a chance even if the other stuff doesn't line up as well. Although I'd probably be careful on how you state it, because they might think you're uptight if you just list all of your dealbreakers. Instead, just explain that this is the way you were raised and it would just be uncomfortable or awkward any other way.
You may not get many replies, but the ones that do reply will be worth considering. It'll probably have to start off as a long-distance relationship too, which could be hard, but it's better than nothing at all.
1 Ulamog 1 ◊ W Avacyn W ◊ U Memnarch U ◊ B Endrek B ◊ R Urabrask R ◊ G Yeva G
Considering you're "the complete package," why are you no longer with either of these girls? If you have found (twice) the ideal partner for yourself, what happened? Or why not both? Aren't Mormons polygamists?
STANDARD:
RRRMono RedRRR
MODERN:
BGBeatdown ElvesBG
GWDevoted Druid ComboGW
EDH:
URGMaelstrom WandererURG
BBBSheoldred, Whispering OneBBB
BGNath of the Gilt-LeafBG
Looking for Knowledge Pools! All languages, conditions, foil/non-foil, etc. PM me with your Pools and we can work something out
Okay, fair. But see below.
Well, here's a question: is this a big enough deal to you that you're willing to rule out a person if they'll occasionally swear casually? Because this really will restrict your pool a lot.
I don't think anyone's saying you'll stick around forever, but...
You yourself acknowledge that your dating pool is incredibly limited, because not only do you need someone who
-- doesn't have sex
-- doesn't drink
-- doesn't smoke
-- doesn't swear
-- doesn't party
-- is big into family
...you also want someone who
-- you like, and
-- who likes you.
Let's say there are ten thousand single girls where you live. This is probably generous, but I don't know where you live, and hey, it's a big round number.
First off, let's say that probably 75% of them have had sex before in their lives--that's what surveys suggest for young, unmarried women. So you're already down to 25% of the dating pool.
Second, let's assume that 80% of women either drink or smoke, which is also a pretty reasonable number. Let's say some of them have sex but don't drink or smoke, so this restricts your dating pool to maybe around 15%.
Let's set aside the partying, the swearing, and the family part; most of those will decline as they get older, and the first one probably correlates pretty well to those who drink or smoke.
But you see the problem already? You're down to 1500 possible girls who theoretically match your criteria. How many of them, given the values you're requiring, are going to be religious? If it's anything over 50%, you're down to a needle in a haystack territory--and that's assuming, by the way, that you find any of those 6-700 girls attractive and funny and pleasant and kind, and they think the same about you.
I'm not saying it's impossible to find that girl, and clearly you've found girls who came pretty close (your ex-girlfriends)... but they're ex-girlfriends for a reason, you know? They weren't perfect, they weren't the one. And your odds of finding "the one" from a pool of 600 girls out of ten thousand aren't great.
Be aware of singing as if you were half dead,
or half asleep:
but lift your voice with strength.
Be no more afraid of your voice now,
nor more ashamed of its being heard,
than when you sang the songs of Satan.
I was exactly the same way.
Bullcrap. You were attacking him for proclaiming himself better than other people, when that wasn't necessarily what he was doing.
I echo these questions. If you're not Mormon anymore, why then adhere rigidly to Mormon ethical stances when determining dating criteria?
Now, if it is indeed because you've thought about them, and I'm talking about having really thought about them, not just once but regularly, and you've come to the same conclusions, that's fine.
But ask yourself: is that really the case, is that really what I believe, or is that something I think is right because I grew up with someone telling me it's right?
Well, I thought I did a good job of explaining why I hold the beliefs that I do and that it isn't JUST because of how I was raised, or because what I previously thought God commanded.
Expounding on what I said:
-I don't believe in using addicting substances or ones which could impair judgment. So this rules out illicit substances as well as legal ones like alcohol or tobacco.
-Again, I'm saving sex for marriage because I feel that it would be more special to share this with the girl who I will hopefully be spending the rest of my life with. A practical benefit is that is that abstinence means no risk of STD's or unwanted pregnancies outside of marriage.
-Cursing is NOT a deal breaker, but I'd prefer my girlfriend to avoid foul language whenever possible. My two other girlfriends have occasionally cursed when angry and I didn't care. Sometimes such things are said when we are angry. But I don't want the girl to regularly use cursing to express herself because there are more dignified and intelligent ways to do so than with vulgarity. Like attraction is just killed when I hear a girl dropping the f-bomb left and right. A major turn off for me.
-Again, I have nothing wrong with freaking birthday parties or social gatherings....but destructive parties in which people are blacking out and doing other things that they will regret later....I don't think those parties are wholesome activities.
-And finally, I'm looking someone who will enjoy being a mother and spending time together with the kids and me for quality family times. Growing up my sisters, my mom and I were extremely close, and I would like my future family to grow up emotionally and spiritually close together and have each other's backs.
Now, cursing is NOT a deal breaker, and if someone doesn't do elicit substances or alcohol/tobacco, then they likely wouldn't party to begin with. So really, there's only three qualities that I can't compromise - Sex before marriage, someone who places a strong emphasis on the family and making it a strong unit, and someone who doesn't use alcohol/tobacco/drugs.
And I just do not see how wanting these three things makes me unreasonable.
I will emphasize that I am not making some ludicrous demand that my gf must have blonde hair and blue eyes and be a super model and be a lawyer who went to Harvard and be rich and work while I get to stay at home or anything ridiculous like that.
I simply want someone who has a handful of values that we can share together and teach our kids together.
If only I was still Mormon, girls like this would be a dime a dozen. But I'm not technically a Mormon, I'm an atheist. And Mormon women want to reach the highest degree of heavenly glory and to do that they must marry a Mormon guy in the temple....which they can't do with an atheist, no matter how good of a person he might be.
So either I have to go back to church and pretend to be a Mormon or I have to go on this endless search for this very rare and elusive girl who would be fine with marrying an atheist with these Mormon values. Or just settle for less than what I want.
It doesn't. It does make your search harder, but it doesn't make you unreasonable.
Never settle for less than what you want. Reassess if what you want is truly what you want and worth waiting for, but don't settle because the search is hard. Settling is one of the worst ways to ruin your life.
Archatmos
Excellion
Fracture: Israfiel (WBR), Wujal (URG), Valedon (GUB), Amduat (BGW), Paladris (RWU)
Collision (Set Two of the Fracture Block)
Quest for the Forsaken (Set Two of the Excellion Block)
Katingal: Plane of Chains
jdinatale, I don't think anyone is saying these values are inherently unreasonable, and if you're getting that impression I apologize on their behalf.
What we're saying is that girls who share these values and are not religious and looking for a religious man are, if not vanishingly rare, at least quite uncommon.
Again, you're looking at best at around 5% of the population of single women in your area, and perhaps even less than that. Do you really want, right off the bat, to rule out 95% of women?
Be aware of singing as if you were half dead,
or half asleep:
but lift your voice with strength.
Be no more afraid of your voice now,
nor more ashamed of its being heard,
than when you sang the songs of Satan.