Flying, haste
Shivan Devastator enters the battlefield with X +1/+1 counters on it.
0/0
Scalable, hasty, evasive threat. It doesn't compare well at specific MVs, but the bigger picture is what's to look at here, similar to cards like Hydroid Krasis.
Feel like this is the best DOM card spoiled so far, glad it has a thread. At exactly 5 mana it of course compares quite unfavorable to glorybringer, Thundermaw, goldspan, etc etc. But the amount of matches you lose to those languishing in your hand for a few turns in aggro is quite substantial — just slapping this down as a 3/3 (or even 2/2) in a pinch are huge upside, and occasionally you rip it when flooded or top decking after a lot of resource trades and make a really beefy boy.
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I primarily play limited, so most of my spoiler season comments view cards through that lens.
I really don't understand the hype around this card.
This is either a bad top end finisher that probably gets immediately removed before it deals damage or gets chumped for ages. Or it is an ineffective french vanilla creature. The scalability means it can be either of these things. But I can't imagine wanting these in any scenario.
I would honestly rather play Fireball.
I really don't see it either. It seems fine, but casting it for less than X=4 seems bad for everybody but monored who isn't likely to get to X=4 with a winning position and at X=4 I'd rather have glory bringer. Mistcutter Hydra with flying, but that can be countered isn't exciting to me.
I guess if your plan is to stay super low curve and play 15 land or something it'll never really get stuck in your hand like a Thundermaw would, as Sliver Lord points out. And it's something to do when you have stupid amounts of mana. But apart from those extremes, I don't think it's particularly useful. And in none of those circumstances do I find it particularly exciting.
Very confused why, if designing a big X dragon, they chose not to do a slightly cooler design like that of Voracious Hydra for just ... this. Let it breathe fire on something before it gets immediately killed, please.
The rate is not particularly amazing for any value of X, but it's not totally embarrassing once X=2 or higher, since X=2 is a Skyknight Legionnaire (or a Phoenix of Ash frontside). Hydroid Krasis isn't particularly inspiring at any specific X compared to its peers e.g. Cloudblazer, but many would agree it's a staple these days.
I don't think this is particularly good in a high power environment. Krasis brings critical card draw and lifegain to the table and fills an important role in ramp-centric Simic decks. At the time it was printed, it was arguably the best Simic card. Now we have an embarrassment of riches with Oko and Uro. At the time this is being printed I'm struggling to think of any place on the curve where I would, more often than not, want this card over any other red creature with the same mana value. I appreciate that the flexibility is meant to offset that weakness, but it needs something more. If this had an impulse draw etb, equal to X, that would have gotten me interested. As is, this is a safe pass.
Also, strongly dislike that we're seeing french vanilla mythics - there is nothing mythic about this card outside of how many red standard decks will likely need a playset of these to be competitive.
I don't think this is particularly good in a high power environment. Krasis brings critical card draw and lifegain to the table and fills an important role in ramp-centric Simic decks. At the time it was printed, it was arguably the best Simic card. Now we have an embarrassment of riches with Oko and Uro. At the time this is being printed I'm struggling to think of any place on the curve where I would, more often than not, want this card over any other red creature with the same mana value. I appreciate that the flexibility is meant to offset that weakness, but it needs something more. If this had an impulse draw etb, equal to X, that would have gotten me interested. As is, this is a safe pass.
Also, strongly dislike that we're seeing french vanilla mythics - there is nothing mythic about this card outside of how many red standard decks will likely need a playset of these to be competitive.
Agreed on the last part. This looks like a rare to me.
Very confused why, if designing a big X dragon, they chose not to do a slightly cooler design like that of Voracious Hydra for just ... this. Let it breathe fire on something before it gets immediately killed, please.
Yeah this feels like an uncommon to me. Perhaps too-good-for-draft uncommon, but yeah they should throw in some splashy effect to make it really mythic.
Shivan Devastator seems solid in a Gruul rampy/stompy archetype. In cube design, I find Gruul to be the hardest of the ten guilds to build a clear mechanical identity for, so I default to Gruul being Ramp Into Dragons (at least until there are more strong payoffs for a Wrenn and Six style land recursion deck). This fits right in.
Shivan Devastator is also a nice nostalgia card for a return to Dominaria. Looking at its six-headed non-promo art, perhaps the card that Shivan Dragon is mashed up with is the first rare I ever opened, Rock Hydra?
Easy pass for me. There's better options at every point on the curve, and we're well away from the point of cube design where flexibility could make up for a card being underwhelming in all its modes.
Easy pass for me. There's better options at every point on the curve, and we're well away from the point of cube design where flexibility could make up for a card being underwhelming in all its modes.
Are we???
This seems…. not true, to me.
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I primarily play limited, so most of my spoiler season comments view cards through that lens.
Easy pass for me. There's better options at every point on the curve, and we're well away from the point of cube design where flexibility could make up for a card being underwhelming in all its modes.
Are we???
This seems…. not true, to me.
I think it's absolutely true. I'm trying to think of a card I'm happy to have in my list on power level alone where at least one of the modes isn't a rate that I'm happy to play.
Like, I still run growth charm, but mostly because it's a fun card that's borderline playable. And stuff like cryptic command or mystic confluence, are basically on rate - 4 to counter and draw a card is just dismiss, a card that has seen play, and mystic confluence is basically on rate for all its modes. So I'm not saying flexible cards aren't good, I'm saying flexible cards where everything is a mana + or more than you really want to pay for the effect don't make it anymore.
Walking ballista is an obvious exception. Hydroid Krasis is to a lesser extent.
I don’t agree with that reasoning… but yeah, power creep is a thing and versatile (at the cost of power) cards need to be comparatively rising in power to the average card.
this is too watered down and doesn’t scale that well at high Xs. Cards that kill it at low Xs kill it at high Xs.
I think this card is perhaps deceptively powerful, but because it is uninteresting and simple, it is fine to exclude it. Basically the same kind of card as Mantis Rider - reasonable because of haste, but us magic players desire the complexity
The community seems low on this, but it seems a lot better than Goldspan Dragon which is in many Cubes. I get that this is only a “good stuff” card, but it feels like what you want for a top end dragon for a red aggro deck. It never rots in your hand if you don’t get a 5th mana source, and if you flood it can be 6/6+.
Couldn’t the same thing be said about Walking Ballista? At worst it’s a revolt/morbid trigger and at best it’s a hill giant, I’d rather play fireball
Things like Walking Ballista / Hangarback Walker / Stonecoil Serpent at least contribute to artifact matters / critical mass and have their own unique synergies. That's the one thing that Shivan Devastator is really lacking.
The floor on Walking Ballista of killing a critical 1-toughness target for 2 is far more important a function than the floor of being a desperation french vanilla creature that's undersized for its cost. It's also colorless, so those kinds of cards can slot into anything. By the time I'm paying colored mana for stuff, I need to care a lot more about my return on mana investment.
Shivan Devastator {X}{R}
Creature — Dragon Hydra
Flying, haste
Shivan Devastator enters the battlefield with X +1/+1 counters on it.
0/0
Scalable, hasty, evasive threat. It doesn't compare well at specific MVs, but the bigger picture is what's to look at here, similar to cards like Hydroid Krasis.
Interested in Custom Card Creation.
My Cube:Cardinal Custom Cube
A custom version of a third modern masters: MM2019
(filter->rarity to see in set rarity).
This is either a bad top end finisher that probably gets immediately removed before it deals damage or gets chumped for ages. Or it is an ineffective french vanilla creature. The scalability means it can be either of these things. But I can't imagine wanting these in any scenario.
I would honestly rather play Fireball.
Very confused why, if designing a big X dragon, they chose not to do a slightly cooler design like that of Voracious Hydra for just ... this. Let it breathe fire on something before it gets immediately killed, please.
Also, strongly dislike that we're seeing french vanilla mythics - there is nothing mythic about this card outside of how many red standard decks will likely need a playset of these to be competitive.
Agreed on the last part. This looks like a rare to me.
Yeah this feels like an uncommon to me. Perhaps too-good-for-draft uncommon, but yeah they should throw in some splashy effect to make it really mythic.
I would happily play this in most agro/midrange decks. I could see replacing a more niche card from either camp with this.
It seems odd as a mythic, but I guess the rare version would be an X/1, rather than an x/x.
Shivan Devastator is also a nice nostalgia card for a return to Dominaria. Looking at its six-headed non-promo art, perhaps the card that Shivan Dragon is mashed up with is the first rare I ever opened, Rock Hydra?
375 unpowered cube - https://cubecobra.com/cube/list/601ac624832cdf1039947588
Are we???
This seems…. not true, to me.
Interested in Custom Card Creation.
My Cube:Cardinal Custom Cube
A custom version of a third modern masters: MM2019
(filter->rarity to see in set rarity).
I think it's absolutely true. I'm trying to think of a card I'm happy to have in my list on power level alone where at least one of the modes isn't a rate that I'm happy to play.
Like, I still run growth charm, but mostly because it's a fun card that's borderline playable. And stuff like cryptic command or mystic confluence, are basically on rate - 4 to counter and draw a card is just dismiss, a card that has seen play, and mystic confluence is basically on rate for all its modes. So I'm not saying flexible cards aren't good, I'm saying flexible cards where everything is a mana + or more than you really want to pay for the effect don't make it anymore.
375 unpowered cube - https://cubecobra.com/cube/list/601ac624832cdf1039947588
I don’t agree with that reasoning… but yeah, power creep is a thing and versatile (at the cost of power) cards need to be comparatively rising in power to the average card.
this is too watered down and doesn’t scale that well at high Xs. Cards that kill it at low Xs kill it at high Xs.
Last Updated 02/07/24
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Things like Walking Ballista / Hangarback Walker / Stonecoil Serpent at least contribute to artifact matters / critical mass and have their own unique synergies. That's the one thing that Shivan Devastator is really lacking.
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