With the release of LTR, we now have a good critical mass of legendary matters enablers / payoffs. For those that have been wanting to support Mox Amber and friends, I think it's pretty viable now.
- Boros colors (white and red) seem to be the primary colors since they have the largest critical mass of legendary creatures in the 1-3 cmc range.
- Most legendary matters payoff cards are in white.
- The Ring mechanic can really help bolster your critical mass of legendary creatures.
- Black can act as a secondary color since it has a good amount of 2-cmc legendary creatures and the best enabler / payoff for the Ring (Call of the Ring).
- Green and blue are a bit off color, but they do have a few payoffs that are good on their own.
Here's a list of things I can think of off the top of my head (mainly in Mardu colors)
I absolutely love discussions of new archetypes! It really takes a lot of work to propose something out of the ordinary.
Unfortunately, the only payoff I'm really interested in is Mox Amber and I feel we are getting close with the number of 1-drops that it could naturally be good. I think the other legendary payoffs aren't really worth the extra deck building costs.
However, I will be short listing several cards you've listed here. I could see a world where cards some of these cards, lets use Yoshimaru, Ever Faithful, will be good, similar to Champion of the Parish because we naturally have the density of humans to start off with.
I've experimented with Artifact aggro/ midrange recently and I can tell you that in most decks, Toolcraft Exemplar and Teething Wurmlet are decent to main deck in flicker/ ramp/ lands because the deck just naturally had a high density of artifacts from Moxen, equipments, Talisman, Copter etc.
Besides Rona, Herald of Invasion which we currently play, Yoshimaru, Ever Faithful is the most appealing of these cards to me, but I'm not sure if it grows enough to make it good enough, especially since we cut most of the NEO legendary lands.
Without other purposeful legendary support, how big does Yoshimaru need to consistently get when cast on turn 1 or 2 to make up for the fact that it'll be stranded as a 1/1 most of the time past turns 3 or 4. Maybe 4/4? Or is 3/3 enough? I feel like routinely getting 2 counters is the baseline that would make me want to try this, but I haven't liked Isamaru, Hound of Konda in years so this being a 2/2 would be a serious disappointment.
Besides Rona, Herald of Invasion which we currently play, Yoshimaru, Ever Faithful is the most appealing of these cards to me, but I'm not sure if it grows enough to make it good enough, especially since we cut most of the NEO legendary lands.
Without other purposeful legendary support, how big does Yoshimaru need to consistently get when cast on turn 1 or 2 to make up for the fact that it'll be stranded as a 1/1 most of the time past turns 3 or 4. Maybe 4/4? Or is 3/3 enough? I feel like routinely getting 2 counters is the baseline that would make me want to try this, but I haven't liked Isamaru, Hound of Konda in years so this being a 2/2 would be a serious disappointment.
I've done the math for Teething Wurmlet and if you want it to be 3/3 +, you need a minimum of 8-9+ sources, which is WAY too high for Yoshimaru and I don't think its really worth it.
However, there is an idea I thought about is that there really aren't great options for Mardu, I thought about a potential partner situation for Mardu. Vial Smasher the Fierce and Yoshimaru sounds like a good idea, but honestly I doubt anyone here would buy into that, especially how badly received packages etc. are received.
Don't think the payoffs are there to be worth supporting yet, but it's close! I don't believe legends matters differentiates these decks enough from a generic white agro list to be interesting. However, with the popularity of commander it's only a matter of time before that changes.
Thanks for making this thread. I'll look out for more synergies in the future!
Plaza of heroes is another payoff missing from the list that's good enough to see constructed play
Don't think the payoffs are there to be worth supporting yet, but it's close!
Plaza of heroes is another payoff missing from the list that's good enough to see constructed play
I did a recent Cubecobra filter on my cube and it's nearly 20% Legendary in some way. That was a shocking number to me so I added Yoshimaru, Ever Faithful right then and there.
But I must admit, I'm now adding Plaza of Heroes now...tyvm. And, yes, I might consider Delighted Halfling but honestly think Plaza is way better for me. If this effect just completely floors me, maybe I'll add the halfling.
I've found adding Arena only cards (Mind Spike) or MTGO errata Unfinity cards ("Name Sticker" Goblin) have been reasonable adds to cube as they are both commonly played, and by extension somewhat easily recognizable, and they could be added via CubeCobra. My rule for these cards is they should not cause massive logistic challenges, such as Oracle of the Alpha and the bar should be slightly higher.
The reason I'm mentioning this is if I COULD see a world where the "If you control a commander" is errated to "If you control a legendary". I think this would be pretty interesting for Deadly Rollick, Deflecting Swat, Fierce Guardianship, and Jeska's Will.
I think this is a reasonable errata as it's fairly intuitive AND it fits the balance of the card.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
To post a comment, please login or register a new account.
-
View User Profile
-
View Posts
-
Send Message
Staff- Boros colors (white and red) seem to be the primary colors since they have the largest critical mass of legendary creatures in the 1-3 cmc range.
- Most legendary matters payoff cards are in white.
- The Ring mechanic can really help bolster your critical mass of legendary creatures.
- Black can act as a secondary color since it has a good amount of 2-cmc legendary creatures and the best enabler / payoff for the Ring (Call of the Ring).
- Green and blue are a bit off color, but they do have a few payoffs that are good on their own.
Here's a list of things I can think of off the top of my head (mainly in Mardu colors)
PAYOFFS
Mox Amber
Merry, Esquire of Rohan
Flowering of the White Tree
Andúril, Flame of the West
Karakas
Minas Tirith (cycle)
Eiganjo, Seat of the Empire (cycle)
Rona, Herald of Invasion
Delighted Halfling
Doric, Owlbear Avenger (backside of Doric, Nature's Warden)
CHEAP LEGENDARY CREATURES / PLANESWALKERS (1-3 cmc)
WHITE
Isamaru, Hound of Konda
Kytheon, Hero of Akros
Yoshimaru, Ever Faithful
Frodo, Sauron's Bane
Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
Samwise the Stouthearted
Adeline, Resplendent Cathar
Thalia, Heretic Cathar
Gideon Blackblade
Gideon of the Trials
RED
Ragavan, Nimble Pilferer
Zurgo Bellstriker
Kari Zev, Skyship Raider
Ardoz, Cobbler of War
Feldon, Ronom Excavator
Laelia, the Blade Reforged
Squee, Dubious Monarch
BLACK
Jadar, Ghoulcaller of Nephalia
Tourach, Dread Cantor
Valki, God of Lies
Vraan, Executioner Thane
Ring enablers / payoffs
Call of the Ring
Samwise the Stouthearted
Sauron's Ransom
Frodo, Sauron's Bane
Ranger's Firebrand
My High Octane Unpowered Cube on CubeCobra
Unfortunately, the only payoff I'm really interested in is Mox Amber and I feel we are getting close with the number of 1-drops that it could naturally be good. I think the other legendary payoffs aren't really worth the extra deck building costs.
However, I will be short listing several cards you've listed here. I could see a world where cards some of these cards, lets use Yoshimaru, Ever Faithful, will be good, similar to Champion of the Parish because we naturally have the density of humans to start off with.
I've experimented with Artifact aggro/ midrange recently and I can tell you that in most decks, Toolcraft Exemplar and Teething Wurmlet are decent to main deck in flicker/ ramp/ lands because the deck just naturally had a high density of artifacts from Moxen, equipments, Talisman, Copter etc.
Anyways, thanks for this discussion!
Without other purposeful legendary support, how big does Yoshimaru need to consistently get when cast on turn 1 or 2 to make up for the fact that it'll be stranded as a 1/1 most of the time past turns 3 or 4. Maybe 4/4? Or is 3/3 enough? I feel like routinely getting 2 counters is the baseline that would make me want to try this, but I haven't liked Isamaru, Hound of Konda in years so this being a 2/2 would be a serious disappointment.
I've done the math for Teething Wurmlet and if you want it to be 3/3 +, you need a minimum of 8-9+ sources, which is WAY too high for Yoshimaru and I don't think its really worth it.
However, there is an idea I thought about is that there really aren't great options for Mardu, I thought about a potential partner situation for Mardu. Vial Smasher the Fierce and Yoshimaru sounds like a good idea, but honestly I doubt anyone here would buy into that, especially how badly received packages etc. are received.
Thanks for making this thread. I'll look out for more synergies in the future!
Plaza of heroes is another payoff missing from the list that's good enough to see constructed play
Last Updated 02/07/24
Streaming Standard/Cube on Twitch https://www.twitch.tv/heisenb3rg96
Strategy Twitter https://www.twitter.com/heisenb3rg
I did a recent Cubecobra filter on my cube and it's nearly 20% Legendary in some way. That was a shocking number to me so I added Yoshimaru, Ever Faithful right then and there.
But I must admit, I'm now adding Plaza of Heroes now...tyvm.
Fully-powered 600-Card "Dream Cube" https://cubecobra.com/cube/list/dreamcube
450-Card "Artificer's Cube" https://cubecobra.com/cube/list/artificer
Cubing in Indianapolis...send me a PM!!
The reason I'm mentioning this is if I COULD see a world where the "If you control a commander" is errated to "If you control a legendary". I think this would be pretty interesting for Deadly Rollick, Deflecting Swat, Fierce Guardianship, and Jeska's Will.
I think this is a reasonable errata as it's fairly intuitive AND it fits the balance of the card.