Wild Growth is a card that I've played for awhile in my 360 unpowered cube, but I've seldom seen elsewhere. It's by no means an all-star, but it has several advantages (and disadvantages) over Llanowar Elves and its ilk.
Ultimately I like the creatures more because they can attack and block and pick up a sword when they have to. They also avoid the card disadvantage problem of auras when the land is destroyed, and the creatures are better at splitting your mana between turns and phases. But I think Wild Growth and the other 1-mana land-ramp auras are fine cards. I think that larger cubes that want to increase the density of 1cc ramp cards beyond just the mana dorks can get decent mileage out of them. But I wouldn't play them in cubes under the 630-range because I think the creatures are better and there's enough of them.
Much better options than Wild Growth nowadays, if you want to head down this route. Abundant Growth is strictly better in every way.
it dosen't provide the ramp you get with wild growth right? With wild growth you add an additional G so 2 and with Abundant Growth you can either get the original color of mana or any color you want but not 2 correct?
Ah yes, derp. You're right. I'm assuming it works like Fertile Ground. Utopia Sprawl is probably the one I'd pick here nowadays. It's a little bit more limited in terms of what it can be stuck on, but the mana of any colour is gravy. (Trace of Abundance isn't bad either)
Ultimately I like the creatures more because they can attack and block and pick up a sword when they have to.
Came in this thread expecting to see you post exactly this. Was not disappointed.
I'd also like to add that even though the mana Elves might not be as "safe", they just have more interesting interactions with other cards. Everything from Anthem-style effects to things like 'Lark. I can't think of one commonly cubed card off the top of my head that interacts positively with Enchantments.
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I started with just utopia sprawl, but it was very well recieved, so we recently added wild growth to increase the density of the effect (Well, "recent" is in cube-time. I haven't cubed in about 2 weeks due to travel and I added it 3 weeks to a month ago).
Single mana accelerants are insane. The more you can get, the better. Especially for larger cube sizes.
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I run both Wild Growth and Utopia Sprawl as well (along all the 1-mana dudes). Most of the regular one-mana dudes are better no doubt. But if you have room for these two auras or want to push ramp like me, I suggest you try them out.
They've been good for us, and defiantly better than the two-mana non-creature green ramp spells like Farseek, etc.
I run the "Wild Growth" package in my 540 (Wild Growth, Utopia Sprawl, Arbor Elf). I am really impressed by it, especially when you can get elf + enchantment. The BCS for Arbor Elf + Enchantment is 4 mana on turn 2, 6 on turn 3, which is pretty impressive.
I initially agreed with you about how it avoids lots of removal, but in practice, people aren't gunning for your mana-men. They're gunning for what the mana-men pay for.
I initially agreed with you about how it avoids lots of removal, but in practice, people aren't gunning for your mana-men. They're gunning for what the mana-men pay for.
That depends on the given situation. More important is the fact that they often use very big guns where killing your elf is mere collateral damage.
Both the creatures and the enchantments have pros and cons. Personally, I like the enchantments better than Elves of Deep Shadow, Avacyn's Pilgrim and Boreal Druid. At 450 I am currently quite happy with 6 mana birds/elves plus Utopia Sprawl with Wild Growth on the short list of potential includes.
I initially agreed with you about how it avoids lots of removal, but in practice, people aren't gunning for your mana-men. They're gunning for what the mana-men pay for.
Mana-dorks can become very high-priority targets for mono-red or R/x aggro decks that want to win the game before you can cast something huge that will let you stabilize. Your fatties might be safe from Arc Lightning, but your Llanowar Elf and Lotus Cobra sure aren't.
I initially agreed with you about how it avoids lots of removal, but in practice, people aren't gunning for your mana-men. They're gunning for what the mana-men pay for.
I respectively disagree with this completely. This may be true for your cube, but there is no way I am holding onto my removal against a green ramp deck if I have the ability to cripple or kill their ramping ability. Green fatties are specifically built to get value even in the face of removal.
I'm going to be switching out some of the mana dorks in my cube for these mana-ramp enchantments for a few reasons.
1) We do not support green aggro. If you support green aggro, the mana dorks are generally better as your equipment will be much better.
2) We support storm and use many land-untap effects. Lands with enchantments on them will actually net us additional mana which is very important.
3) I've been cutting land, enchantment, and artifact destruction from my cube and it's been having a largely beneficial effect. With many of the land and enchantment removal gone, these enchantments will be stronger.
4) I like how you don't lose a mana waiting for summoning sickness with Wild Growth and Utopia Sprawl when it's turn 2 or later.
5) We run Oath of Druids, and enchantments > mana dorks in that deck.
With that being said, what are the best options for me to use?
Yeah, I'm planning to cut one of Fyndhorn/Llanowar/Mystic Elves for a Wild Growth, for variety's sake. Sometimes the Enchantment is better, and 3 replicas (plus Arbor Elf) is a bit overkill, even though they always see play. I think the other two are a little behind Wild Growth but still very playable.
Yeah, I'm planning to cut one of Fyndhorn/Llanowar/Mystic Elves for a Wild Growth, for variety's sake. Sometimes the Enchantment is better, and 3 replicas (plus Arbor Elf) is a bit overkill, even though they always see play. I think the other two are a little behind Wild Growth but still very playable.
I play Utopia Sprawl even though there is some risk of not having a Forest to enchant. I find that our green decks typically run a healthy amount of forests. It is rare to have a non-forest green source and Utopia Sprawl stuck in your hand. The color fixing on the other hand is very welcome.
I like the interaction of Arbor Elf and Wild Growth/Utopia Sprawl by the way, in my no-fast-mana Cube it is one of the most explosive starts you can have.
Glad you guys support the idea! How would you rank them in order of their value/importance? For me, I'd say this:
------- I'm going to be running these:
1) Overgrowth
2) Wild Growth
3) Utopia Sprawl
------- And not running these:
4) Fertile Ground (I am not running this one as it only produces 50% of its CMC)
5) Market Festival (Same reason as Fertile ground, and 3G is too much mana)
Are there any others I'm missing that I should know about?
And I like 1) and 2) far more than 3); I like ramp spells as cheap as possible (I make exceptions for extremely powerful ones, obviously). Especially if one of your reasons is to support storm, cheap spells help increasing the storm count and you can play 1) and 2) basically for free if you already have a few lands out.
Wild Growth is a card that I've played for awhile in my 360 unpowered cube, but I've seldom seen elsewhere. It's by no means an all-star, but it has several advantages (and disadvantages) over Llanowar Elves and its ilk.
Mainly, the difference between this and one of the various elves is in the removal. Wild Growth especially avoids stuff like Arc Trail,Forked Bolt, Arc Lightning, and Flames of the Firebrand quite well. But dies horribly to stuff like Plow Under, Avalanche Riders and Strip Mine.
It also "avoids summoning sickness" after turn one, and can increase the value of Garruk 1.0, Arbor Elf and Earthcraft.
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it dosen't provide the ramp you get with wild growth right? With wild growth you add an additional G so 2 and with Abundant Growth you can either get the original color of mana or any color you want but not 2 correct?
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Utopia Sprawl is probably the one I'd pick here nowadays. It's a little bit more limited in terms of what it can be stuck on, but the mana of any colour is gravy. (Trace of Abundance isn't bad either)
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Came in this thread expecting to see you post exactly this. Was not disappointed.
I'd also like to add that even though the mana Elves might not be as "safe", they just have more interesting interactions with other cards. Everything from Anthem-style effects to things like 'Lark. I can't think of one commonly cubed card off the top of my head that interacts positively with Enchantments.
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I started with just utopia sprawl, but it was very well recieved, so we recently added wild growth to increase the density of the effect (Well, "recent" is in cube-time. I haven't cubed in about 2 weeks due to travel and I added it 3 weeks to a month ago).
Single mana accelerants are insane. The more you can get, the better. Especially for larger cube sizes.
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They've been good for us, and defiantly better than the two-mana non-creature green ramp spells like Farseek, etc.
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haha yeah
i was like "wait a sec", there was some reason why i wasn't using this in my Enchantress deck.
anyways, there are enough even janky mana dorks (even Avacyn's Pilgrim, Elves of Deep Shadowm etc). I would run those guys before wild growth.
I think Wild Growth is quasi playable at 720.
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Even if it just ramped colorless 1 and cantripped for G it would be a 360 staple, it wouldn't need to fix at all.
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Both the creatures and the enchantments have pros and cons. Personally, I like the enchantments better than Elves of Deep Shadow, Avacyn's Pilgrim and Boreal Druid. At 450 I am currently quite happy with 6 mana birds/elves plus Utopia Sprawl with Wild Growth on the short list of potential includes.
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Mana-dorks can become very high-priority targets for mono-red or R/x aggro decks that want to win the game before you can cast something huge that will let you stabilize. Your fatties might be safe from Arc Lightning, but your Llanowar Elf and Lotus Cobra sure aren't.
I respectively disagree with this completely. This may be true for your cube, but there is no way I am holding onto my removal against a green ramp deck if I have the ability to cripple or kill their ramping ability. Green fatties are specifically built to get value even in the face of removal.
On spoiled card wishlisting and 'should-have-had'-isms:
I'm going to be switching out some of the mana dorks in my cube for these mana-ramp enchantments for a few reasons.
1) We do not support green aggro. If you support green aggro, the mana dorks are generally better as your equipment will be much better.
2) We support storm and use many land-untap effects. Lands with enchantments on them will actually net us additional mana which is very important.
3) I've been cutting land, enchantment, and artifact destruction from my cube and it's been having a largely beneficial effect. With many of the land and enchantment removal gone, these enchantments will be stronger.
4) I like how you don't lose a mana waiting for summoning sickness with Wild Growth and Utopia Sprawl when it's turn 2 or later.
5) We run Oath of Druids, and enchantments > mana dorks in that deck.
With that being said, what are the best options for me to use?
I'm mainly looking at Utopia Sprawl, Wild Growth, and Overgrowth, but am open to other options.
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On spoiled card wishlisting and 'should-have-had'-isms:
I like the interaction of Arbor Elf and Wild Growth/Utopia Sprawl by the way, in my no-fast-mana Cube it is one of the most explosive starts you can have.
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------- I'm going to be running these:
1) Overgrowth
2) Wild Growth
3) Utopia Sprawl
------- And not running these:
4) Fertile Ground (I am not running this one as it only produces 50% of its CMC)
5) Market Festival (Same reason as Fertile ground, and 3G is too much mana)
Are there any others I'm missing that I should know about?
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1) Utopia Sprawl
2) Wild Growth
3) Fertile Ground
And I like 1) and 2) far more than 3); I like ramp spells as cheap as possible (I make exceptions for extremely powerful ones, obviously). Especially if one of your reasons is to support storm, cheap spells help increasing the storm count and you can play 1) and 2) basically for free if you already have a few lands out.
"What am I looking at? Ashes, dead man."