Lately I've been thinking about how much land I'm running in my cube, and I realized that there really isn't an established formula for how much is appropriate. I'm sure eidolon can give some numbers, but the land numbers on his thread take into account both fixing and other things (like maze of ith, volrath's stronghold, etc)
I'm curious as to how many dedicated manafixing lands people play. I'd also consider counting signets/talismans when doing this math because they play much like manafixing lands do.
Plus I also run 7 lands and 2 artifacts that fix all 5 colors, as well as 2 artifacts that can fix any color when you cast them (Coldsteel Heart and Chrome Mox)
That adds up to 61 lands or artifacts that fix colors in my 450 cube. If you count just the dedicated color stuff and not the rainbows, thats 50.
All Colorfixing: 61/450 - 13.55%
Specific colorfixing: 50/450 - 11.11%
Where do other people's cubes stand on these things? I'm thinking about cutting the Shards lands for a while and seeing how things go, but I'd like to know what the mana situation would end up like if I did that.
I have 70 dual color-fixing lands, and 5 five-color color-fixing lands in my 720 Cube. There is quite a bit of fixing in green and colorless spells as well.
My Cube is 10.4% color-fixing land. My average color-fixing land per pack ratio is 1.56 cards per pack (2.25 lands total). I like this amount, and I used to run both more and less before I decided that this was optimal for my Cube.
Looks like i'm decidedly above average on fixing then. It seems like I'm also the only person in this size cube still running the Shards lands. Guess it might be time to try letting them go for a bit, see what happens.
Trilands are on the block for me when I eventually move down to 720 from 750. I currently have 11.73% manafixing without them, 12% and some change including them. It's like we planned it that way or something.
For me:
10 Bouncelands
10 M10/ISD lands
10 Signets
5 Vivid Lands
2 Evolving Wilds/Terramorphic
+some random artifacts and things like Creeping Tar Pit not set with others
10 Fetches
10 Pains
10 M10/INN
10 Shocks
4 Rav Karoos (Blue/X ones)
1 City of Brass.
1 Horizon Canopy
Not counting the last 6 as they are a little unbalanced in terms of fixing, the total is 40 dual coloured lands, which means you'll see some sort of fixing ever 10 cards so there should be one in every pack roughly... That seems fine to me and so far there haven't been any issues.
That's also not counting various artifacts that I have which can fix mana.
While at first I considered a huge swath of fixing, I settled on the ABU duals, shocks and fetches along with a few City of Brass style lands and Manlands. Artifacts like Darksteel Ingot and certain Signets round out the selections. Less than 50 total land/artifact fixers in my 540. A few more may soon find their way in with Manalith and others on deck to be considered.
Zulo, that seems like an insane amount of mana fixing. I have less than that in my 720. I definitely don't play all 10 signets and all 10 karoos since some color combinations don't want them (I don't think I'd ever play the rakdos signet or bounceland unless I'm 4cc or 5cc). I also play only a few of the scars turn-3 tap lands (I do play the RB one there though).
I'm going to miss being able to necro old threads like this.
Recently I've done a major overhaul of my Cube (changing 11% of the cards and adding green and black aggro). I'm reevaluating the number of lands. I'm at 540 powered and I don't have signets or talismans or artifact fixers.
I have 6 lands per guild plus City of Brass, Gemstone, Confluence, Coliseum, Ash Barrens, Evolving Wilds for a total of 66 fixing lands out of 540 cards for a rate of 12.2%.
If I cut 10 guild lands I would have 56/540 for 10.4%. The most common draft size we run is 6 people.
Would this be too few lands? We just cut the Conspiracy cards after an extended run and they totally change how I've viewed the Cube so seeking feedback on appropriate amount of lands.
If I cut 10 guild lands I could add a few more 5 color lands like Terramorphic.
I think 5 cycles can work fine at 540; that's what I ran. But I would add the 5-color lands in that you're not playing to make up for losing the cycle.
My current land fixing percentage is ~11.3% if that helps.
Thanks for the feedback. I think I may cut a cycle of 10 at least as a test. Since I dont run artifact fixers combined with the fact that I often draft with half the Cube I didnt want to be short on fixing.
It is tempting to try the signets again. Maybe I'll try some of the non color committal artifact 2 drops like Coldsteel Heart again.
Let's see, I've got four miscellaneous dual lands per color pair, twenty trilands, ten signets, five vivid lands, two Terramorphic, two Evolving Wilds, three random rainbow lands, ten keyrunes, five mana myrs, two scuttlemuts, crystalline crawler, and three random artifacts. Excluding a few randoms like Mycocynth Wellspring.
So that's 103 out of 1594 in the current build. That's 6.46%. A little low, considering how viable 4+ colors is here. Although that ignores all the stuff green does for color fixing.
I don't think I'm looking to meaningfully increase that density. I will say the 20 trilands do miracles for the environment. Especially during the draft when colors aren't completely locked in. I think they're the single biggest thing that makes my environment run smoothly.
That seems woefully low ...by almost half. 10% is what I would consider to be a bare minimum. 13% is high. 11-12% is the sweet spot that I've found that gives players the fixing they need if they're willing to prioritize drafting it. The bigger the cube is, the higher the percentage should go, since there's massive inconsistencies with what shows up in a given draft. For a 1500+ card cube, I'd look to get at least 13% mana fixing lands in there. Supplemental fixing from artifacts and green can help, but they're unreliable and don't typically count as full sources of colored mana during deck construction because of that. I would advise most cubes to play 11-12% fixing lands, plus artifacts, spells and creatures that fix mana. For something bigger than 720, I'd aim for closer to 13% ...maybe even more. And that's only counting lands. I'd remove all the artifacts and creatures from those numbers.
Just from anecdotal evidence, I've never had any problems. There have been a few times when a pod hasn't had much fixing, but not many. I could see adding another land or maybe two per guild (some of which would be guildgates, since I've already mined out most of my good lands). But I wouldn't want to go to eight lands per guild. Variance cuts both ways. You don't want to get a pack with six dual lands in it.
But now that I've run the numbers, I'll bear this in mind. I could certainly see adding an additional set of vivids if nothing else.
The difference between having 34 on-color playables in your draft pile compared to 33 doesn't matter much at all. But the difference between having 3 on-color mana fixing lands instead of 2 is enormous. The lands will always see play, the playables may not.
A postscript to my change for posterity. We are now at 59/540=10.9% after cutting our 6th set of guild lands and added three 5 color lands to get here. Would like one more 5 color land but not happy with available remaining options so rolling with this for now.
On a related note we added 5 talismans (4 blue and WB) which will serve as fixing in addition to helping other decks. Curious to see how it plays out!
I'm curious as to how many dedicated manafixing lands people play. I'd also consider counting signets/talismans when doing this math because they play much like manafixing lands do.
In my 450, I run the following
10 Duals
10 Shocks
10 Fetches
5 Worldwake Manlands
10 lands/signets focused for each color pair (Azorius Signet, Dimir Signet, Blackcleave Cliffs, Copperline Gorge, Horizon Canopy, Battlefield Forge, Simic Signet, Fetid Heath, Izzet Signet) (somehow I don't have a G/B land here, which is weird. For the purposes of averages I'll assume Llanowar Wastes is here)
5 Shards lands
Plus I also run 7 lands and 2 artifacts that fix all 5 colors, as well as 2 artifacts that can fix any color when you cast them (Coldsteel Heart and Chrome Mox)
That adds up to 61 lands or artifacts that fix colors in my 450 cube. If you count just the dedicated color stuff and not the rainbows, thats 50.
All Colorfixing: 61/450 - 13.55%
Specific colorfixing: 50/450 - 11.11%
Where do other people's cubes stand on these things? I'm thinking about cutting the Shards lands for a while and seeing how things go, but I'd like to know what the mana situation would end up like if I did that.
My MTGSalvation Cube Page (not always up to date, but sweet pics of my alters)
My 630 Card Powered Cube
My Article - "Cube Design Philosophy"
My Article - "Mana Short: A study in limited resource management."
My 49th Set (P)review - Discusses my top 20 Cube cards from MKM!
My Cube is 10.4% color-fixing land. My average color-fixing land per pack ratio is 1.56 cards per pack (2.25 lands total). I like this amount, and I used to run both more and less before I decided that this was optimal for my Cube.
That's around what I'm running as well, so I'll second this.
Shocklands
Fetchlands
M10 Duals / INN Duals
Worldwake Manduals / Enemy Painlands
8 Multicolor lands
10 Signets
3 other fixing artifacts
71/600 - 11,83%
Uril, the Miststalker RGW -- Ulamog, the Infinite Gyre C -- Vhati il-Dal BG -- Jor Kadeen, the Prevailer RW -- Animar, Soul of Elements URG
Kiki-Jiki, Mirror Breaker R -- Maga, Traitor to Mortals B -- Ghave, Guru of Spores BGW -- Sliver Hivelord WUBRG
My MTGSalvation Cube Page (not always up to date, but sweet pics of my alters)
My 630 Card Powered Cube
My Article - "Cube Design Philosophy"
My Article - "Mana Short: A study in limited resource management."
My 49th Set (P)review - Discusses my top 20 Cube cards from MKM!
My Cube (DeckStats)
My Pauper Cube: 540 (CubeTutor link!)
Level 1 Judge
10 Bouncelands
10 M10/ISD lands
10 Signets
5 Vivid Lands
2 Evolving Wilds/Terramorphic
+some random artifacts and things like Creeping Tar Pit not set with others
~40/270 ≈ 15% of my cube.
10 Fetches
10 Pains
10 M10/INN
10 Shocks
4 Rav Karoos (Blue/X ones)
1 City of Brass.
1 Horizon Canopy
Not counting the last 6 as they are a little unbalanced in terms of fixing, the total is 40 dual coloured lands, which means you'll see some sort of fixing ever 10 cards so there should be one in every pack roughly... That seems fine to me and so far there haven't been any issues.
That's also not counting various artifacts that I have which can fix mana.
http://cubetutor.com/cubeblog/993
http://www.cubetutor.com/cubeblog/23690
My CubeCobra (draft 20 card packs, 2 packs.)
430, Peasant, Very Unpowered
Why you should take your hybrids out of your gold section
Manamath Article
Blimpy's Aggro-Focused Cube (powered 360)
I'm always open to suggestions on how to improve my cube. Take a look and ask a question, or give a constructive critique whenever you can.
Recently I've done a major overhaul of my Cube (changing 11% of the cards and adding green and black aggro). I'm reevaluating the number of lands. I'm at 540 powered and I don't have signets or talismans or artifact fixers.
I have 6 lands per guild plus City of Brass, Gemstone, Confluence, Coliseum, Ash Barrens, Evolving Wilds for a total of 66 fixing lands out of 540 cards for a rate of 12.2%.
If I cut 10 guild lands I would have 56/540 for 10.4%. The most common draft size we run is 6 people.
Would this be too few lands? We just cut the Conspiracy cards after an extended run and they totally change how I've viewed the Cube so seeking feedback on appropriate amount of lands.
If I cut 10 guild lands I could add a few more 5 color lands like Terramorphic.
Thoughts? Thanks!
My 540 card Powered Cube last updated March 2022
My current land fixing percentage is ~11.3% if that helps.
My 630 Card Powered Cube
My Article - "Cube Design Philosophy"
My Article - "Mana Short: A study in limited resource management."
My 49th Set (P)review - Discusses my top 20 Cube cards from MKM!
It is tempting to try the signets again. Maybe I'll try some of the non color committal artifact 2 drops like Coldsteel Heart again.
My 540 card Powered Cube last updated March 2022
My 630 Card Powered Cube
My Article - "Cube Design Philosophy"
My Article - "Mana Short: A study in limited resource management."
My 49th Set (P)review - Discusses my top 20 Cube cards from MKM!
So that's 103 out of 1594 in the current build. That's 6.46%. A little low, considering how viable 4+ colors is here. Although that ignores all the stuff green does for color fixing.
I don't think I'm looking to meaningfully increase that density. I will say the 20 trilands do miracles for the environment. Especially during the draft when colors aren't completely locked in. I think they're the single biggest thing that makes my environment run smoothly.
Low-power cube enthusiast!
My 1570 card cube (no longer updated)
My 415 Peasant+ Artifact and Enchantment Cube
Ever-Expanding "Just throw it in" cube.
My 630 Card Powered Cube
My Article - "Cube Design Philosophy"
My Article - "Mana Short: A study in limited resource management."
My 49th Set (P)review - Discusses my top 20 Cube cards from MKM!
But now that I've run the numbers, I'll bear this in mind. I could certainly see adding an additional set of vivids if nothing else.
Low-power cube enthusiast!
My 1570 card cube (no longer updated)
My 415 Peasant+ Artifact and Enchantment Cube
Ever-Expanding "Just throw it in" cube.
I do.
My 630 Card Powered Cube
My Article - "Cube Design Philosophy"
My Article - "Mana Short: A study in limited resource management."
My 49th Set (P)review - Discusses my top 20 Cube cards from MKM!
Fair enough. I probably will make an increase soon. Not double, but more.
Low-power cube enthusiast!
My 1570 card cube (no longer updated)
My 415 Peasant+ Artifact and Enchantment Cube
Ever-Expanding "Just throw it in" cube.
My 630 Card Powered Cube
My Article - "Cube Design Philosophy"
My Article - "Mana Short: A study in limited resource management."
My 49th Set (P)review - Discusses my top 20 Cube cards from MKM!
On a related note we added 5 talismans (4 blue and WB) which will serve as fixing in addition to helping other decks. Curious to see how it plays out!
My 540 card Powered Cube last updated March 2022