So, Brawl's a thing apparently. I had been working up a Ghalta, Primal Hunger deck for commander and it occurs to me that the super simple "bash 'em with a giant dinosaur" thing might port well to this format. I lose out on a bunch of fun effects like Traverse the Outlands and Greater Good, but Rishkar's Expertise is in standard. So, that's a thing.
Anyway, I purposely tried to keep the curve low on this. The goal is to get a T5 Ghalta down and then use him to whale on people. No commander damage sucks, but 30 life is almost as easy for a 12/12 trample to bash down, especially if he's getting help from the team.
Likely, the deck will get wrecked by board wipe and I'm not sure there's a way around that. Always open to suggestions. My hope would be that wipes will not be as common here as they would be in EDH, or at least they would be slower. But hey, green's motto may as well be go big or go home.
As always, the cry is for more card advantage. I don't think there will be more help on that until we get the rest of the Dominaria spoilers. (Maybe they'll reprint Elvish Visionary? I could see this deck leaning in an elvish direction after Kaladesh and Amonkhet rotate.)
Note that Carnage Tyrant, while an awesome card, is intentionally omitted for a combination of converted mana cost and converted dollar cost reasons. I'm also not 100% sure that Steel Leaf Champion will make the cut if it maintains its preorder insanity prices. That will affect whether or not some colorless lands sneak in. I wouldn't mind having Scavenger Grounds and Field of Ruin or maybe Arch of Orazca available, but it seems a silly risk to take for minimal gain if I need to be hitting GGG on T3. EDIT: Putting in Scavenger Grounds b/c graveyard seems to be a real meta issue.
Loving how its such a low curve. I also agree with your sentiment in hoping that Dominaria brings some much needed toys. As for what you may want, I would suggest looking over the utility lands like Field of Ruins and the deserts like Scavenger Grounds.
Thanks, it's a bit of a different tack than my usual green decks. We'll just have to wait and see if aggro* really is an archetype that can keep up in this new metagame.
* - though I'm not 100% sure if this is an aggro deck, if we're going by the strictest definitions? Maybe like ramp-ggro?
I did consider the colorless utility lands, like I mentioned in the OP. The thing that stopped me so far was Steel Leaf Champion. If I get lucky drafting / the price goes down / I like this deck enough to pony up for one, then I really need to watch my mana base. Getting GGG on T3 is no joke, and even one unlucky colorless land could screw up the whole curve for relatively little benefit. If he doesn't get into the deck for budget reasons, then sure, mono-green is colorless utility land city!
Also, I notice that I broke the formatting on the OP decklist somehow. D'oh.
I did consider Heroic Intervention, but after some gold fishing I'm thinking the deck's weakness to board wipes might not be quite as pronounced as I had originally feared. After all, it really only needs to rush Ghalta out; developing the board after that is wasteful. So it can hold back its other cards to recover after a board wipe. Targeted removal is even less of a problem, as Ghalta isn't as affected by commander tax.
That's all theoretical, anyway. I'm going to leave those cards on the cutting room floor for now and see what I can do in live testing.
Also, Cultivator's Caravan in particular and Vehicles in general is a brilliant suggestion. I didn't look over artifacts too carefully, but I'll give them a good going-over when I have the chance. Thanks for the suggestion!
Interesting list! I think we might be building at a bit of cross-purposes here. For example, I think that Strider Harness is absolutely indespensible because I view Ghalta himself as enough of a wincon for the entire deck, and making sure he can have haste means not wasting a combat phase. Haste also means that your opponents have to have an answer for him every turn that he drops, which with enough mana acceleration should be every other turn if not more. I'll be interested to see how much control actually makes it into the meta, and whether or not it will be fast enough to keep up.
That's one big reason why, at least with the initial build, I am shying away from "alternate win-cons" that are also just creature-based beat-sticks. I mean, that's what Ghalta does anyway, so I'm not sure that duplicating the effect would be helpful. That having been said, for a multi-player format, I cannot recommend Tendershoot Dryad enough. It's almost Avenger of Zendikar in terms of impact on the game, for only five mana. I view it as much more effective than Carnage Tyrant - again, assuming a multi-player format.
I'm not a huge fan of the Cartouche of Strength in your list. For a three-mana fight effect, I'd rather take Ambuscade because of its instant speed. Pounce, in my opinion, is the best fight effect in standard right now.
I also shied away from non-creature effects in my list building. It may just be a part of the way that I'm used to building, but I feel like creatures pull enough double-duty as ramp spells in Ghalta that they're generally worth running over non-creature-based alternatives.
Deathgorge Shaman is a great pick. Graveyard hate is always appreciated, and his three power make him a relevant threat and a good boost for Ghalta. I'll cut something for it in my list, just like I'm going to make some room for Cultivator's Caravan.
I would actually see about making room for a couple vehicles like Skysovereign, Consul Flagship and Fleetwheel Cruiser that you can use to "cheat" Ghalta out by using vehicles to wake up other vehicles to get some artificial power that is resistant to board wipes.
Made a couple changes based on the recommendations I've gotten here. I cut Ixalli's Diviner (was too slow, did not contribute enough power relative to CC) and two Forests (I think I'll be ok with 23 total lands).
I added:
Scavenger Grounds: For real, I don't want to get color-screwed, but graveyard decks appear to be a Thing.
Consulate Dreadnought: Probably a bit more controversial. Six to crew is a lot, but seven potential power coming down for one mana can make a mediocre board state explode into a Ghalta, even through a bit of commander tax. He also chain-crews off of the Caravan and one other power from somewhere, meaning that a Ghalta can be stored after a board wipe with only a couple creatures in hand.
Right now I have more potential cuts than ideas to add. Wildest Dreams and Blossom Dryad have been underwhelming so far in my testing, but I'm not sure where to replace them. I don't really like any of the other vehicles (too much mana for their power). Nissa, Vital Force is one potential idea. Thoughts?
Yeah, Traxos, Scourge of Kroog is a pretty great addition for this deck. I had to blink and read the card again when I first saw it spoiled. I put him in and took out Sehefet Monitor, which in practice I was never happy to see.
I'm also taking your hint with Uncage the Menagerie. Great call! I hadn't been happy with Wildest Dreams and I think it's because the deck doesn't really have to recur anything; it can just pull more nonsense out of its library, since most of the creatures are interchangeable. I'm not sure about setting it for 4, even with Traxos, because of how amazing the 3-drops are, but we'll see what happens in practice.
I did substitute Hashep Oasis in for one of Forests. It doesn't ETB tapped and it can produce G in a pinch. Most of the time colorless will be fine. The upside is pretty minor, until that one time you REALLY need three extra damage to kill some fool. Minor upside for basically no downside: sure, I'll take one.
I'm not into Kamahl's Druidic Vow, like, at all. In order to be effective, it means that I (1) have a legendary creature and (2) have a bunch of mana. I can't imagine many board states like that where I'm not already just winning, and those few I can imagine would not be solved by a worse version of Genesis Wave. I'm willing to be proven wrong, but I don't think the Vow is good in this deck.
Of course, we do seem to be pursuing slightly different ideas with our builds. I think mine is a little more aggressive at pushing out Ghalta, worrying less about the long-game than yours. It may be the rush is just not effective against other decks. It'll be interesting later this month when I'm actually able to build this thing and start seeing what the meta is like.
EDIT: Oh, yeah, I wanted to mention that Consulate Dreadnought has been amazing in testing so far. Being able to turn six power into thirteen power for one mana feels like playing an ultra-powerful ritual for Ghalta.
Anyway, I purposely tried to keep the curve low on this. The goal is to get a T5 Ghalta down and then use him to whale on people. No commander damage sucks, but 30 life is almost as easy for a 12/12 trample to bash down, especially if he's getting help from the team.
Likely, the deck will get wrecked by board wipe and I'm not sure there's a way around that. Always open to suggestions. My hope would be that wipes will not be as common here as they would be in EDH, or at least they would be slower. But hey, green's motto may as well be go big or go home.
As always, the cry is for more card advantage. I don't think there will be more help on that until we get the rest of the Dominaria spoilers. (Maybe they'll reprint Elvish Visionary? I could see this deck leaning in an elvish direction after Kaladesh and Amonkhet rotate.)
Note that Carnage Tyrant, while an awesome card, is intentionally omitted for a combination of converted mana cost and converted dollar cost reasons. I'm also not 100% sure that Steel Leaf Champion will make the cut if it maintains its preorder insanity prices. That will affect whether or not some colorless lands sneak in. I wouldn't mind having Scavenger Grounds and Field of Ruin or maybe Arch of Orazca available, but it seems a silly risk to take for minimal gain if I need to be hitting GGG on T3. EDIT: Putting in Scavenger Grounds b/c graveyard seems to be a real meta issue.
As always, any help is appreciated!
Decklist:
1x Ghalta, Primal Hunger
1 Drop (3)
1x Consulate Dreadnought
1x Greenbelt Rampager
1x Llanowar Elves
2 Drop (12)
1x Ancient Animus
1x Channeler Initiate
1x Drover of the Mighty
1x Druid of the Cowl
1x Initiate's Companion
1x Merfolk Branchwalker
1x Naga Vitalist
1x Naturalize
1x Pounce
1x Resilient Khenra
1x Servant of the Conduit
1x Uncage the Menagerie
1x Blossom Dryad
1x Crushing Canopy
1x Cultivator's Caravan
1x Growing Rites of Itlimoc Flip
1x Manglehorn
1x Prowling Serpopard
1x Ranging Raptors
1x Rhonas the Indomitable
1x Steel Leaf Champion
1x Strider Harness
1x Thrashing Brontodon
1x Watchful Naga
1x Wayward Swordtooth
4 Drop (5)
1x Ripjaw Raptor
1x Territorial Allosaurus
1x Traxos, Scourge of Kroog
1x Vizier of the Menagerie
1x Wild Wanderer
1x Tendershoot Dryad
6 Drop (1)
1x Rishkar's Expertise
7 Drop (1)
1x Mouth / Feed
0 drop (23)
21x Forest
1x Hashep Oasis
1x Scavenger Grounds
Changelog
4/3/18: -Ixalli's Diviner, -2xForest; +Cultivator's Caravan, +Consulate Dreadnought, +Scavenger Grounds
4/15/18: -Forest, -Wildest Dreams, -Shefet Monitor; +Hashep Oasis, +Traxos, Scourge of Kroog, +Uncage the Menagerie
* - though I'm not 100% sure if this is an aggro deck, if we're going by the strictest definitions? Maybe like ramp-ggro?
I did consider the colorless utility lands, like I mentioned in the OP. The thing that stopped me so far was Steel Leaf Champion. If I get lucky drafting / the price goes down / I like this deck enough to pony up for one, then I really need to watch my mana base. Getting GGG on T3 is no joke, and even one unlucky colorless land could screw up the whole curve for relatively little benefit. If he doesn't get into the deck for budget reasons, then sure, mono-green is colorless utility land city!
Also, I notice that I broke the formatting on the OP decklist somehow. D'oh.
RCRDaretti: Superfriends Forever RCR
WGBDoran: Ent-mootWBG
GGGMultani: Group Bear HugGGG
GB(B/G)The Gitrog Monster: Dredgefall DurdleGB(B/G)
RGWGahiji, the Honored Group Hug MonsterRGW
UB(U/B)Yuriko, Ninja Trinket AggroUB(U/B)
WUBRGAtogatog: Assembling a OHKOWUBRG
That's all theoretical, anyway. I'm going to leave those cards on the cutting room floor for now and see what I can do in live testing.
Also, Cultivator's Caravan in particular and Vehicles in general is a brilliant suggestion. I didn't look over artifacts too carefully, but I'll give them a good going-over when I have the chance. Thanks for the suggestion!
That's one big reason why, at least with the initial build, I am shying away from "alternate win-cons" that are also just creature-based beat-sticks. I mean, that's what Ghalta does anyway, so I'm not sure that duplicating the effect would be helpful. That having been said, for a multi-player format, I cannot recommend Tendershoot Dryad enough. It's almost Avenger of Zendikar in terms of impact on the game, for only five mana. I view it as much more effective than Carnage Tyrant - again, assuming a multi-player format.
I'm not a huge fan of the Cartouche of Strength in your list. For a three-mana fight effect, I'd rather take Ambuscade because of its instant speed. Pounce, in my opinion, is the best fight effect in standard right now.
I also shied away from non-creature effects in my list building. It may just be a part of the way that I'm used to building, but I feel like creatures pull enough double-duty as ramp spells in Ghalta that they're generally worth running over non-creature-based alternatives.
Deathgorge Shaman is a great pick. Graveyard hate is always appreciated, and his three power make him a relevant threat and a good boost for Ghalta. I'll cut something for it in my list, just like I'm going to make some room for Cultivator's Caravan.
Interesting thoughts so far! Keep 'em coming!
I added:
Scavenger Grounds: For real, I don't want to get color-screwed, but graveyard decks appear to be a Thing.
Cultivator's Caravan: By far the most brilliant suggestion yet.
and
Consulate Dreadnought: Probably a bit more controversial. Six to crew is a lot, but seven potential power coming down for one mana can make a mediocre board state explode into a Ghalta, even through a bit of commander tax. He also chain-crews off of the Caravan and one other power from somewhere, meaning that a Ghalta can be stored after a board wipe with only a couple creatures in hand.
Right now I have more potential cuts than ideas to add. Wildest Dreams and Blossom Dryad have been underwhelming so far in my testing, but I'm not sure where to replace them. I don't really like any of the other vehicles (too much mana for their power). Nissa, Vital Force is one potential idea. Thoughts?
I'm also taking your hint with Uncage the Menagerie. Great call! I hadn't been happy with Wildest Dreams and I think it's because the deck doesn't really have to recur anything; it can just pull more nonsense out of its library, since most of the creatures are interchangeable. I'm not sure about setting it for 4, even with Traxos, because of how amazing the 3-drops are, but we'll see what happens in practice.
I did substitute Hashep Oasis in for one of Forests. It doesn't ETB tapped and it can produce G in a pinch. Most of the time colorless will be fine. The upside is pretty minor, until that one time you REALLY need three extra damage to kill some fool. Minor upside for basically no downside: sure, I'll take one.
I'm not into Kamahl's Druidic Vow, like, at all. In order to be effective, it means that I (1) have a legendary creature and (2) have a bunch of mana. I can't imagine many board states like that where I'm not already just winning, and those few I can imagine would not be solved by a worse version of Genesis Wave. I'm willing to be proven wrong, but I don't think the Vow is good in this deck.
Of course, we do seem to be pursuing slightly different ideas with our builds. I think mine is a little more aggressive at pushing out Ghalta, worrying less about the long-game than yours. It may be the rush is just not effective against other decks. It'll be interesting later this month when I'm actually able to build this thing and start seeing what the meta is like.
EDIT: Oh, yeah, I wanted to mention that Consulate Dreadnought has been amazing in testing so far. Being able to turn six power into thirteen power for one mana feels like playing an ultra-powerful ritual for Ghalta.