Temple of the False God wasn't broken, but was pretty good. I think this mox is probably better.
I mean, kinda? Yeah, it is quite good in terms of getting a finisher out more quickly. It's a Spike card that appeals way less so to the other psychographics, and that's fine.
As a general rule of thumb, any card that produces more mana than it costs to get it out is probably too strong. Permanents seems to the major target for this, seeing as how Seething Song hasn't broken the bank. For the most part, cards like this come with major drawbacks and are still considered overpowered. Thinking of cards like Grim Monolith and and card that doubles island production (can't remember the name right now.)
Dahammer4
Artifact - Equipment (R)
Choose one - Equipped creature gets +4/+0; or Double Strike; or "When this creature deals combat damage to a creature, exile that creature"; or t, unattach ~ from this creature: ~ deals 5 damage to target creature." t: Equipped creature gains flying until end of turn.
Equip 3
What's key about it is that you can just drop it whenever it pops into your hand. You could hypothetically fetch a whole bunch of them in the early game and use them to fuel an Emrakul later when you can afford to pay their tap cost, whereas with mana stones that have a non-zero cc, you don't get to do that at no cost.
The comparison to Temple of the False God is apt, though this card is strictly better than it, since it doesn't cost a land drop. That said, given that Temple was played and powerful but didn't set the world on fire, this might be okay. I'd need to play with it.
Oh, and I'd drop the Mox-ness of it; Moxes all currently tap for colored mana.
This seems pretty good, but not broken. Yes, it's "free" ramp, but it either comes out so late or requires so much work to get online that the benefit doesn't seem worth it. I'd say powerful, but printable.
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It was at that moment that I realized: I'm kinda just making these things up. We can just write the rules the way we want them to work. People will have fun, and people will get it.
The comparison to Temple of the False God is apt, though this card is strictly better than it, since it doesn't cost a land drop. That said, given that Temple was played and powerful but didn't set the world on fire, this might be okay. I'd need to play with it.
Oh, and I'd drop the Mox-ness of it; Moxes all currently tap for colored mana.
Definitely not strictly better. Comes online a turn earlier, but trading all your colored mana for one extra colorless is quite a drawback in most cases. Turn five with Temple you can play Niv-Mizzet, the Firemind, turn five with this you can cast Keiga, the Tide Star.
I guess the question is; is getting 1 extra mana out of it really worth the extra trouble? I mean, yes, you can dump 4 out in the late game for some free ramp, but that's costing you 4 cards to give yourself 4 extra mana. It usually seems that cards are a more valuable resource than mana, and getting 1 mana worth of ramp per card doesn't seem like an advantageous tradeoff for late game ramp, even if it's free.
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It was at that moment that I realized: I'm kinda just making these things up. We can just write the rules the way we want them to work. People will have fun, and people will get it.
I would prefer it if cost 3 to activate and gave you 4. That seems better. Then it's suddenly powerful but won't break any single format since it turns all your mana colorless.
It should be Legendary, yes.
um that's stronger, just saying.
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If you're having creature problems I feel bad for you son
You got 99 attackers but I'm blocking with 1.
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The fact it only makes colorless mana makes me think its pretty fair for an uncommon. You can't ramp into a titan on turn 5 with just this for example.
I think you could get away with 3,T: 4
I dunno, I actually like this as a Mox. It is a 0-mana ramper, after all.
I can definitely see where people are coming from, though, especially since it only produces colorless mana. And obviously, if it did produce colored mana, I don't think anyone here would disagree that it would be 100% broken.
Either way, I think it's pretty interesting to read the comments here, if only because many people have almost diametrically opposed views as to how good good it is (and how rare it should be).
I dunno, I actually like this as a Mox. It is a 0-mana ramper, after all.
[/COLOR]
When I think of Mox, I think "fast mana." This mana is anything but fast. That's why I'd call it "Powerstone Pebble" or something. It really takes the right format for this one to outperform something like a signet or other cheap common or uncommon mana stone that adds mana right away.
Did you miss the part where Lotus Guardian has an activated ability? Also remember that it was printed in Invasion, over a decade ago. Things have changed a lot since then in terms of creature efficiency, availability of artifact creatures, etc.
A useless activated ability, only on the card for flavor reasons, and not worth the extra 1. Does anyone agree with me there?
There was a time when you could play a colorless 7 drop on turn 3 with Urza lands, but I wouldn't want a 7 drop for color fixing regardless personally...
Anyway, Lotus Guardian wouldn't make it as a rare today, would it? I think they would change the name and funtionally reprint it as uncommon. Don't know if Urzatron decks being standard legal would change any of that.
A useless activated ability, only on the card for flavor reasons, and not worth the extra 1. Does anyone agree with me there?
I, for one, don't. It makes the card somewhat more special (definitely not more powerful though, but that's only a small part of the whole picture that determines the rarity of a card), and I think, especially at that time, it's easily defendable as a rare.
As for the card, it seems totally fine, not overpowered by any means. I wouldn't make it legendary though.
Sphinx is really good. Control will play it and be able to protect him just fine, hes a much better finisher then Jwar Isle and thats saying a lot considering how good he alone is. Bazzar Trader.dec now has 16 threaten effects. Thats really, really, really,really good. Really good.
I think Lotus Guardian wouldn't even get printed nowadays. Design is a lot more conscious of stuff like that now; I really can't see them choosing to add a useless tap ability to a big flier.
To keep it's Moxiness I recommend making it legendary and then having it produce 1 of each mana. This cuts the multiple scenario out, while generally making it a strong card that accells you.
It also stops people from trying to run 4 of these in the large majority of decks.
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Mox Crystal
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:4mana:, :symtap:: Add to your mana pool.
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That said, it probably is too good.
I̟̥͍̠ͅn̩͉̣͍̬͚ͅ ̬̬͖t̯̹̞̺͖͓̯̤h̘͍̬e͙̯͈̖̼̮ ̭̬f̺̲̲̪i͙͉̟̩̰r̪̝͚͈̝̥͍̝̲s̼̻͇̘̳͔ͅt̲̺̳̗̜̪̙ ̳̺̥̻͚̗ͅm̜̜̟̰͈͓͎͇o̝̖̮̝͇m̯̻̞̼̫̗͓̤e̩̯̬̮̩n͎̱̪̲̹͖t͇̖s̰̮ͅ,̤̲͙̻̭̻̯̹̰ ̖t̫̙̺̯͖͚̯ͅh͙̯̦̳̗̰̟e͖̪͉̼̯ ̪͕g̞̣͔a̗̦t̬̬͓͙̫̖̭̻e̩̻̯ ̜̖̦̖̤̭͙̬t̞̹̥̪͎͉ͅo͕͚͍͇̲͇͓̺ ̭̬͙͈̣̻t͈͍͙͓̫̖͙̩h̪̬̖̙e̗͈ ̗̬̟̞̺̤͉̯ͅa̦̯͚̙̜̮f͉͙̲̣̞̼t̪̤̞̣͚e̲͉̳̥r͇̪̙͚͓l̥̞̞͎̹̯̹ͅi͓̬f̮̥̬̞͈ͅe͎ ̟̩̤̳̠̯̩̯o̮̘̲p̟͚̣̞͉͓e͍̩̣n͔̼͕͚̜e̬̱d̼̘͎̖̹͍̮̠,͖̺̭̱̮ ̣̲͖̬̪̭̥a̪͚n̟̲̝̤̤̞̗d̘̱̗͇̮͕̳͕͔ ͖̞͉͎t̹̙͎h̰̱͉̗e̪̞̱̝̹̩ͅ ̠̱̩̭̦p̯̙e͓o̳͚̰̯̺̱̰͔̘p̬͎̱̣̼̩͇l̗̟̖͚̠e̱͉͔̱̦̬̟̙ ̖͚̪͔̼̦w̺̖̤̱e͖̗̻̦͓̖̘̜r̭̥e͔̹̫̱͕̦̰͕ ̗͔̠p̠̗͍͍̱̳̠r̰͔͎̰o͉̥͓̰͚̥s̟͚̹̱͔̣t͉̙̳̖͖̪̮r̥̘̥͙̹a͉̟̫̟̳̠̟̭t͈̜̰͈͎e̞̣̭̲̬ ͚̗̯̟͙i͍͖̰̘̦͖͉ṇ̮̻̯̦̲̩͍ ̦̮͚̫̤t͉͖̫͕ͅͅh͙̮̻̘̣̮̼e͕̺ ͙l͕̠͎̰̥i̲͓͉̲g̫̳̟͈͇̖h̠̦̖t͓̯͎̗ ̳̪̘̟̙̩̦o̫̲f̙͔̰̙̠ ̹̪̗͇̯t͖̼̼͉͖̬h̹͇̩e͚̖̺̤͉̹͕̪ ͚͓̭̝̺G͎̗̯̩o̫̯̮̟̮̳̘d̜̲͙̠-̩̳̯̲̗̜P̹̘̥͉̝h͍͈̗̖̝ͅa͍̗̮̼̗r̜̖͇̙̺a̭̺͔̞̳͈o̪̣͓̯̬͙̯̰̗h̖̦͈̥̯͔.͇̣̙̝
Remember that land that tapped for 2 if you had 4 other lands? That was pretty good if I recall.
Temple of the False God? I don't think that warped any formats either.
I̟̥͍̠ͅn̩͉̣͍̬͚ͅ ̬̬͖t̯̹̞̺͖͓̯̤h̘͍̬e͙̯͈̖̼̮ ̭̬f̺̲̲̪i͙͉̟̩̰r̪̝͚͈̝̥͍̝̲s̼̻͇̘̳͔ͅt̲̺̳̗̜̪̙ ̳̺̥̻͚̗ͅm̜̜̟̰͈͓͎͇o̝̖̮̝͇m̯̻̞̼̫̗͓̤e̩̯̬̮̩n͎̱̪̲̹͖t͇̖s̰̮ͅ,̤̲͙̻̭̻̯̹̰ ̖t̫̙̺̯͖͚̯ͅh͙̯̦̳̗̰̟e͖̪͉̼̯ ̪͕g̞̣͔a̗̦t̬̬͓͙̫̖̭̻e̩̻̯ ̜̖̦̖̤̭͙̬t̞̹̥̪͎͉ͅo͕͚͍͇̲͇͓̺ ̭̬͙͈̣̻t͈͍͙͓̫̖͙̩h̪̬̖̙e̗͈ ̗̬̟̞̺̤͉̯ͅa̦̯͚̙̜̮f͉͙̲̣̞̼t̪̤̞̣͚e̲͉̳̥r͇̪̙͚͓l̥̞̞͎̹̯̹ͅi͓̬f̮̥̬̞͈ͅe͎ ̟̩̤̳̠̯̩̯o̮̘̲p̟͚̣̞͉͓e͍̩̣n͔̼͕͚̜e̬̱d̼̘͎̖̹͍̮̠,͖̺̭̱̮ ̣̲͖̬̪̭̥a̪͚n̟̲̝̤̤̞̗d̘̱̗͇̮͕̳͕͔ ͖̞͉͎t̹̙͎h̰̱͉̗e̪̞̱̝̹̩ͅ ̠̱̩̭̦p̯̙e͓o̳͚̰̯̺̱̰͔̘p̬͎̱̣̼̩͇l̗̟̖͚̠e̱͉͔̱̦̬̟̙ ̖͚̪͔̼̦w̺̖̤̱e͖̗̻̦͓̖̘̜r̭̥e͔̹̫̱͕̦̰͕ ̗͔̠p̠̗͍͍̱̳̠r̰͔͎̰o͉̥͓̰͚̥s̟͚̹̱͔̣t͉̙̳̖͖̪̮r̥̘̥͙̹a͉̟̫̟̳̠̟̭t͈̜̰͈͎e̞̣̭̲̬ ͚̗̯̟͙i͍͖̰̘̦͖͉ṇ̮̻̯̦̲̩͍ ̦̮͚̫̤t͉͖̫͕ͅͅh͙̮̻̘̣̮̼e͕̺ ͙l͕̠͎̰̥i̲͓͉̲g̫̳̟͈͇̖h̠̦̖t͓̯͎̗ ̳̪̘̟̙̩̦o̫̲f̙͔̰̙̠ ̹̪̗͇̯t͖̼̼͉͖̬h̹͇̩e͚̖̺̤͉̹͕̪ ͚͓̭̝̺G͎̗̯̩o̫̯̮̟̮̳̘d̜̲͙̠-̩̳̯̲̗̜P̹̘̥͉̝h͍͈̗̖̝ͅa͍̗̮̼̗r̜̖͇̙̺a̭̺͔̞̳͈o̪̣͓̯̬͙̯̰̗h̖̦͈̥̯͔.͇̣̙̝
Edit: actually, scratch that. Temple seems to be almost strictly better. Man, these things are hard to evaluate.
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I mean, kinda? Yeah, it is quite good in terms of getting a finisher out more quickly. It's a Spike card that appeals way less so to the other psychographics, and that's fine.
I̟̥͍̠ͅn̩͉̣͍̬͚ͅ ̬̬͖t̯̹̞̺͖͓̯̤h̘͍̬e͙̯͈̖̼̮ ̭̬f̺̲̲̪i͙͉̟̩̰r̪̝͚͈̝̥͍̝̲s̼̻͇̘̳͔ͅt̲̺̳̗̜̪̙ ̳̺̥̻͚̗ͅm̜̜̟̰͈͓͎͇o̝̖̮̝͇m̯̻̞̼̫̗͓̤e̩̯̬̮̩n͎̱̪̲̹͖t͇̖s̰̮ͅ,̤̲͙̻̭̻̯̹̰ ̖t̫̙̺̯͖͚̯ͅh͙̯̦̳̗̰̟e͖̪͉̼̯ ̪͕g̞̣͔a̗̦t̬̬͓͙̫̖̭̻e̩̻̯ ̜̖̦̖̤̭͙̬t̞̹̥̪͎͉ͅo͕͚͍͇̲͇͓̺ ̭̬͙͈̣̻t͈͍͙͓̫̖͙̩h̪̬̖̙e̗͈ ̗̬̟̞̺̤͉̯ͅa̦̯͚̙̜̮f͉͙̲̣̞̼t̪̤̞̣͚e̲͉̳̥r͇̪̙͚͓l̥̞̞͎̹̯̹ͅi͓̬f̮̥̬̞͈ͅe͎ ̟̩̤̳̠̯̩̯o̮̘̲p̟͚̣̞͉͓e͍̩̣n͔̼͕͚̜e̬̱d̼̘͎̖̹͍̮̠,͖̺̭̱̮ ̣̲͖̬̪̭̥a̪͚n̟̲̝̤̤̞̗d̘̱̗͇̮͕̳͕͔ ͖̞͉͎t̹̙͎h̰̱͉̗e̪̞̱̝̹̩ͅ ̠̱̩̭̦p̯̙e͓o̳͚̰̯̺̱̰͔̘p̬͎̱̣̼̩͇l̗̟̖͚̠e̱͉͔̱̦̬̟̙ ̖͚̪͔̼̦w̺̖̤̱e͖̗̻̦͓̖̘̜r̭̥e͔̹̫̱͕̦̰͕ ̗͔̠p̠̗͍͍̱̳̠r̰͔͎̰o͉̥͓̰͚̥s̟͚̹̱͔̣t͉̙̳̖͖̪̮r̥̘̥͙̹a͉̟̫̟̳̠̟̭t͈̜̰͈͎e̞̣̭̲̬ ͚̗̯̟͙i͍͖̰̘̦͖͉ṇ̮̻̯̦̲̩͍ ̦̮͚̫̤t͉͖̫͕ͅͅh͙̮̻̘̣̮̼e͕̺ ͙l͕̠͎̰̥i̲͓͉̲g̫̳̟͈͇̖h̠̦̖t͓̯͎̗ ̳̪̘̟̙̩̦o̫̲f̙͔̰̙̠ ̹̪̗͇̯t͖̼̼͉͖̬h̹͇̩e͚̖̺̤͉̹͕̪ ͚͓̭̝̺G͎̗̯̩o̫̯̮̟̮̳̘d̜̲͙̠-̩̳̯̲̗̜P̹̘̥͉̝h͍͈̗̖̝ͅa͍̗̮̼̗r̜̖͇̙̺a̭̺͔̞̳͈o̪̣͓̯̬͙̯̰̗h̖̦͈̥̯͔.͇̣̙̝
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Oh, and I'd drop the Mox-ness of it; Moxes all currently tap for colored mana.
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um that's stronger, just saying.
You got 99 attackers but I'm blocking with 1.
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I think you could get away with 3,T: 4
It would only be rare if it kept Mox in the name. See Lotus Guardian for a good example of "rare because of the name"
I can definitely see where people are coming from, though, especially since it only produces colorless mana. And obviously, if it did produce colored mana, I don't think anyone here would disagree that it would be 100% broken.
Either way, I think it's pretty interesting to read the comments here, if only because many people have almost diametrically opposed views as to how good good it is (and how rare it should be).
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Lotus guardian is a bad Lumengrid Gargoyle. Should gargoyle have been a rare?
When I think of Mox, I think "fast mana." This mana is anything but fast. That's why I'd call it "Powerstone Pebble" or something. It really takes the right format for this one to outperform something like a signet or other cheap common or uncommon mana stone that adds mana right away.
A useless activated ability, only on the card for flavor reasons, and not worth the extra 1. Does anyone agree with me there?
There was a time when you could play a colorless 7 drop on turn 3 with Urza lands, but I wouldn't want a 7 drop for color fixing regardless personally...
Anyway, Lotus Guardian wouldn't make it as a rare today, would it? I think they would change the name and funtionally reprint it as uncommon. Don't know if Urzatron decks being standard legal would change any of that.
I, for one, don't. It makes the card somewhat more special (definitely not more powerful though, but that's only a small part of the whole picture that determines the rarity of a card), and I think, especially at that time, it's easily defendable as a rare.
As for the card, it seems totally fine, not overpowered by any means. I wouldn't make it legendary though.
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It also stops people from trying to run 4 of these in the large majority of decks.