So I need to know if this is too powerful or game warping.
Sigon of Disease 2BB
Legendary Zombie Avatar
You may play Sigon of Disease without paying its mana cost.
When Sigon of Disease enters the battlefield and its casting cost was not paid to cast it, you lose half your life rounded up. BBB: Return Sigon of Disease from your grave yard to the battlefield tapped.
If Sigon of Disease was cast and mana cost was paid put a -1/-1 counter on all creatures you dont control.
2/3
Need advise on balancing it while also keeping most of its abilities. I feel the current cost, pt, and cast ability is about were i want them.
Sigon of Disease 2BB
Legendary Zombie Avatar
You may play Sigon of Disease without paying its mana cost.
When Sigon of Disease enters the battlefield and its casting cost was not paid to cast it, you lose half your life rounded up. BBB: Return Sigon of Disease from your grave yard to the battlefield tapped.
If Sigon of Disease was cast and mana cost was paid put a -1/-1 counter on all creatures you dont control.
2/3
Need advise on balancing it while also keeping most of its abilities. I feel the current cost, pt, and cast ability is about were i want them.
It feels mostly fair but I really am unsure if you need the first ability. Free creatures tend to be problematic and while a 2/3 that takes half your life is reasonably fair it doesn't look as fun/necessary as the other abilities (particularly when it doesn't offer me the cool -1/-1 counter bonus). In fact it would be cool if the last ability triggered whenever he enters the battlefield as with the life loss clause he's already got a reasonable drawback if he enters from the graveyard.
Sigon of Disease :2mana::symb::symb:
Legendary Creature - Zombie Avatar
When you cast ~, put a -1/-1 counter on each creature you don't control.
Reveal ~ from your hand, Pay half your life rounded up: You may put a card named ~ from your hand onto the battlefield.
:symb::symb::symb:, Pay half your life rounded up: Return ~ from your graveyard to the battlefield.
2/3
The part I really don't like is that this card gives you too many options:
Playing for mana from hand, playing for life from hand, playing for mana and life from graveyard. And then you add an ability to it that is dependent on how you play it.
So half of the abilities are not what the card wants to be about.
Sigon of Disease {B} Legendary Creature - Zombie Avatar
When ~ enters the battlefield, you may pay :2mana::symb::symb:. If you do, each opponent loses half his or her life life, rounded up. Otherwise you lose half your life, rounded up.
:2mana::symb::symb:: Return ~ from your graveyard to the battlefield.
2/3
Now you have two abilities that always provide you with the same choices. In theory you can go back to the -1/-1 counter thing for paying the extra mana, but the symmetry is what makes the ability much easier to grok.
For a similar reason it makes sense to make the cost of the activated ability the same as the mana cost.
Closer to the original, but not necessarily better (for stated reasons):
Sigon of Disease {B} Legendary Creature - Zombie Avatar
Kicker :2mana::symb::symb:
When ~ enters the battlefield, if it was kicked, each opponent loses half his or her life life, rounded up. Otherwise you lose half your life, rounded up.
:symb::symb::symb:: Return ~ from your graveyard to the battlefield.
2/3
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Planar Chaos was not a mistake neither was it random. You might want to look at it again.
[thread=239793][Game] Level Up - Creature[/thread]
I really like those versions. I'll go with the last one with a slight change. It has to be a 2/3 for cycles sake. Thanks for all the help.
Sigon of Disease 2BB
Legendary Zombie Avatar
You may pay half your life rather than paying ~ mana cost.
When ~ enters the battlefield put a -1/-1 counter on all creatures your opponents control. 1B: Return ~ from your graveyard to your hand.
2/3
That looks pretty good. I didnt know if free and the counters were too far above the curve. I guess its of everyones opinion that it is totally fine.
Sigon of Disease 2BB
Legendary Zombie Avatar
You may pay half your life, rounded up, rather than pay ~'s mana cost.
When ~ enters the battlefield put a -1/-1 counter on each creature your opponents control. 1B: Return ~ from your graveyard to your hand.
2/3
Incidentally, you mention the power and toughness being relevant for a cycle. I'm curious what the rest of the cycle looks like. Like a white creature where you may give an opponent life rather than pay the cost, or a red where you may sacrifice X mountains?
Sigon of Reverance 2WW
Legendary Knight Avatar
You may put 3 1/1 black cleric tokens into the battlefield under each opponents control rather than paying ~'s mana cost.
When ~ enters the battlefield you may put a +1/+1 counter on all other creatures you control. 1W: Return ~ from your graveyard to your hand
2/3
Sigon of Flurition 2GG
Legendary Druid Avatar
You may have each opponent gain 10 life rather than paying ~ mana cost.
When ~ enters the battlefield add 1 mana to your mana of any color for each creature your opponents control. 4G: Return ~ from your gaveyard to your hand.
2/3
Sigon of Dimensions 2UU
Legendary Moonfolk Avatar
You may have each opponent draw 3 cards rather than paying ~ mana cost.
When ~ enters the battlefield you may skip your next turn. If you do gain control of target creature, land, or artifact. 3U: return ~ from your graveyard to your hand.
2/3
Sigon of Rage 2RR
Legendary Minotaur Avatar
You may have each opponent each opponent search his or her library for an instant or sorcery card and cast it without paying it's mana cost rather than paying ~'s mana cost.
When ~ enters the battlefield deal damage to each opponent equil to the amount of cards in their hand. 3R: Return ~ from your graveyard to your hand.
2/3
Sigon of Disease: Seems strong, despite the alternate cost being mostly useless. Can't think of a situation where I'd want to pay half my life for this, but 2BB for sure.
Sigon of Reverance: With a sac outlet and some way to clear the tokens, this reads 1W: Put a +1/+1 counter on each creature you control. Suture Priest and similar are just gravy.
Sigon of Flurition: False Cure. The only reason I'd play this. Weak outside of combos, way too strong with them.
Sigon of Dimensions: Best use for this guy's alternate cost is the first turn free 2/3, your opponents will need to dump the extra cards. Otherwise, only useful for a very risky Confiscate.
Sigon of Rage: Turn one on the play, seven free damage? That's overpowered. The first time. Against a deck where the only instants and sorceries are things like Overrun. Or, they could grab Invincible Hymn. Alternately, they could actually grow a brainstem and do any of the following. Army of the Damned. Storm Herd for twenty (resolves before the enters the battlefield trigger). Dragonstorm. Primal Surge. Enter the Infinite. Or, Cancel. Are you starting to get the picture about this guy's alternate cost? It reads: "instead of paying ~'s mana cost, lose the game." Strikes me as a bad idea. Oh, and by the way, Sudden Impact didn't need to get copied for each opponent and get a 2/3 body with it.
Thats kinda the point. The red one is quite powerful, but its drawback is very very risky. They all are except the green one in fact. Half your life against rdw is insane. Giving combo 3 cards and a free turn is very deadly. 10 free life for them while you are in green is usually bad.
The Sigons are not enemys but rather secret allies. Look at how the abilities combine with each other. White one with the green one gives you mana ramp. Blue into red or red red can be game. White into the black gives you 2 2/3s that can even the odds quickly. My set is based on the Avatars controlling things. Putting plans into motion. In the 3rd set they combine powers to fight the planeswalkers.
Each on their own is usually very bad, but what do you expect from free dudes? Still though. Is the red one too broken? Suggestion on how to make him play well with the others would be great.
Yeah, Sigon of Flurition is far too good. If they have 6 creatures then you get 100 mana and they get 1000 life, or more. I don't think a card that deals in numbers that big with no outside assistance would see print.
Not to be rude, but the red Sigon's drawback is not a risk, it's straight stupidity and an automatic game loss against anyone expecting it.
Hypothetically, being able to chain blue into red into red on turn one deals 20 damage to each opponent. Simply taking mulligans until you have blue red red gives a larger than 50% win rate. And so, anybody with the mental capacity of a starfish will run 1-2 copies of a card in their deck that makes trying to do so an automatic loss.
Blue deck's answer: Cancel. The easiest answer to the red one is just to use the trigger to dig up a counterspell. Sigon of Rage gets countered, goes to the graveyard, and the end result is that player discarding a card.
Important lesson about alternate costs, too. If you have to tack on a ridiculous drawback, it means the effect isn't balanced for the cost.
Regarding the rest of it... white into black for 2 2/3s for two cards and ten life isn't exactly that great of a combo, even if it's free. White into green is strong, potentially broken. Imagine that ramping into Trinisphere gave you creatures (best play I can think of).
Bottom line, playing red's alternate cost gives you an instant game loss in most circumstances, and occasionally an instant win. Scrap the alternate cost, end of story. He needs the damage trigger nerfed, by the way. Sudden Impact does not need to get a 2/3 body, built in recursion, and hitting all opponents.
I'm completely open to changing the red one. It was really just a tie in to the blue one. Couldn't figure out how to combo it well. Maybe need to change the blue one as well. That is fine to. Anyone has better suggestions for my unlikely tag team please speak up.
At the comment for white black combo. Yes 10 life to get 2 2/3s is not the best. But that would be evened pretty quickly. Especially if you get a crazy hand of white white black. That would be 2 3/4s and a 2/3 where they only get 3 1/1 chumps. Or 1 3/4 and 2 2/3 no blockers. The deck I have built for them is exp one with thopters and memnites. I've dropped some crazy hands down for turn 3 kills. It's rare though.
At the comment about the crazy green numbers. What? Is it worded that way? I thought it was cast for free they get 10 life you get mana. Did I miss something?
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Sigon of Disease 2BB
Legendary Zombie Avatar
You may play Sigon of Disease without paying its mana cost.
When Sigon of Disease enters the battlefield and its casting cost was not paid to cast it, you lose half your life rounded up.
BBB: Return Sigon of Disease from your grave yard to the battlefield tapped.
If Sigon of Disease was cast and mana cost was paid put a -1/-1 counter on all creatures you dont control.
2/3
Need advise on balancing it while also keeping most of its abilities. I feel the current cost, pt, and cast ability is about were i want them.
It feels mostly fair but I really am unsure if you need the first ability. Free creatures tend to be problematic and while a 2/3 that takes half your life is reasonably fair it doesn't look as fun/necessary as the other abilities (particularly when it doesn't offer me the cool -1/-1 counter bonus). In fact it would be cool if the last ability triggered whenever he enters the battlefield as with the life loss clause he's already got a reasonable drawback if he enters from the graveyard.
Legendary Creature - Zombie Avatar
When you cast ~, put a -1/-1 counter on each creature you don't control.
Reveal ~ from your hand, Pay half your life rounded up: You may put a card named ~ from your hand onto the battlefield.
:symb::symb::symb:, Pay half your life rounded up: Return ~ from your graveyard to the battlefield.
2/3
Playing for mana from hand, playing for life from hand, playing for mana and life from graveyard. And then you add an ability to it that is dependent on how you play it.
So half of the abilities are not what the card wants to be about.
{B} Legendary Creature - Zombie Avatar
When ~ enters the battlefield, you may pay :2mana::symb::symb:. If you do, each opponent loses half his or her life life, rounded up. Otherwise you lose half your life, rounded up.
:2mana::symb::symb:: Return ~ from your graveyard to the battlefield.
2/3
For a similar reason it makes sense to make the cost of the activated ability the same as the mana cost.
Closer to the original, but not necessarily better (for stated reasons):
{B} Legendary Creature - Zombie Avatar
Kicker :2mana::symb::symb:
When ~ enters the battlefield, if it was kicked, each opponent loses half his or her life life, rounded up. Otherwise you lose half your life, rounded up.
:symb::symb::symb:: Return ~ from your graveyard to the battlefield.
2/3
Finally a good white villain quote: "So, do I ever re-evaluate my life choices? Never, because I know what I'm doing is a righteous cause."
Factions: Sleeping
Remnants: Valheim
Legendary Journey: Heroes & Planeswalkers
Saga: Shards of Rabiah
Legends: The Elder Dragons
Read up on Red Flags & NWO
Sigon of Disease 2BB
Legendary Zombie Avatar
You may pay half your life rather than paying ~ mana cost.
When ~ enters the battlefield put a -1/-1 counter on all creatures your opponents control.
1B: Return ~ from your graveyard to your hand.
2/3
That looks pretty good. I didnt know if free and the counters were too far above the curve. I guess its of everyones opinion that it is totally fine.
Sigon of Disease 2BB
Legendary Zombie Avatar
You may pay half your life, rounded up, rather than pay ~'s mana cost.
When ~ enters the battlefield put a -1/-1 counter on each creature your opponents control.
1B: Return ~ from your graveyard to your hand.
2/3
Incidentally, you mention the power and toughness being relevant for a cycle. I'm curious what the rest of the cycle looks like. Like a white creature where you may give an opponent life rather than pay the cost, or a red where you may sacrifice X mountains?
Legendary Knight Avatar
You may put 3 1/1 black cleric tokens into the battlefield under each opponents control rather than paying ~'s mana cost.
When ~ enters the battlefield you may put a +1/+1 counter on all other creatures you control.
1W: Return ~ from your graveyard to your hand
2/3
Sigon of Flurition 2GG
Legendary Druid Avatar
You may have each opponent gain 10 life rather than paying ~ mana cost.
When ~ enters the battlefield add 1 mana to your mana of any color for each creature your opponents control.
4G: Return ~ from your gaveyard to your hand.
2/3
Sigon of Dimensions 2UU
Legendary Moonfolk Avatar
You may have each opponent draw 3 cards rather than paying ~ mana cost.
When ~ enters the battlefield you may skip your next turn. If you do gain control of target creature, land, or artifact.
3U: return ~ from your graveyard to your hand.
2/3
Sigon of Rage 2RR
Legendary Minotaur Avatar
You may have each opponent each opponent search his or her library for an instant or sorcery card and cast it without paying it's mana cost rather than paying ~'s mana cost.
When ~ enters the battlefield deal damage to each opponent equil to the amount of cards in their hand.
3R: Return ~ from your graveyard to your hand.
2/3
Sigon of Reverance: With a sac outlet and some way to clear the tokens, this reads 1W: Put a +1/+1 counter on each creature you control. Suture Priest and similar are just gravy.
Sigon of Flurition: False Cure. The only reason I'd play this. Weak outside of combos, way too strong with them.
Sigon of Dimensions: Best use for this guy's alternate cost is the first turn free 2/3, your opponents will need to dump the extra cards. Otherwise, only useful for a very risky Confiscate.
Sigon of Rage: Turn one on the play, seven free damage? That's overpowered. The first time. Against a deck where the only instants and sorceries are things like Overrun. Or, they could grab Invincible Hymn. Alternately, they could actually grow a brainstem and do any of the following. Army of the Damned. Storm Herd for twenty (resolves before the enters the battlefield trigger). Dragonstorm. Primal Surge. Enter the Infinite. Or, Cancel. Are you starting to get the picture about this guy's alternate cost? It reads: "instead of paying ~'s mana cost, lose the game." Strikes me as a bad idea. Oh, and by the way, Sudden Impact didn't need to get copied for each opponent and get a 2/3 body with it.
The Sigons are not enemys but rather secret allies. Look at how the abilities combine with each other. White one with the green one gives you mana ramp. Blue into red or red red can be game. White into the black gives you 2 2/3s that can even the odds quickly. My set is based on the Avatars controlling things. Putting plans into motion. In the 3rd set they combine powers to fight the planeswalkers.
Each on their own is usually very bad, but what do you expect from free dudes? Still though. Is the red one too broken? Suggestion on how to make him play well with the others would be great.
"A Plague on All Your Houses!" - Thespian's Stage Pox
Hypothetically, being able to chain blue into red into red on turn one deals 20 damage to each opponent. Simply taking mulligans until you have blue red red gives a larger than 50% win rate. And so, anybody with the mental capacity of a starfish will run 1-2 copies of a card in their deck that makes trying to do so an automatic loss.
Blue deck's answer: Cancel. The easiest answer to the red one is just to use the trigger to dig up a counterspell. Sigon of Rage gets countered, goes to the graveyard, and the end result is that player discarding a card.
White's? Luminesce. Honorable Passage. Riot Control. Safe Passage. Wrath of God.
Green's? Chameleon Blur. Tooth and Nail
Black's? The aforementioned Sorin's Vengeance works just fine. Entomb and Exhume is nice.
Red's? Ignorant Bliss. Dragonstorm and combo out.
Important lesson about alternate costs, too. If you have to tack on a ridiculous drawback, it means the effect isn't balanced for the cost.
Regarding the rest of it... white into black for 2 2/3s for two cards and ten life isn't exactly that great of a combo, even if it's free. White into green is strong, potentially broken. Imagine that ramping into Trinisphere gave you creatures (best play I can think of).
Bottom line, playing red's alternate cost gives you an instant game loss in most circumstances, and occasionally an instant win. Scrap the alternate cost, end of story. He needs the damage trigger nerfed, by the way. Sudden Impact does not need to get a 2/3 body, built in recursion, and hitting all opponents.
At the comment for white black combo. Yes 10 life to get 2 2/3s is not the best. But that would be evened pretty quickly. Especially if you get a crazy hand of white white black. That would be 2 3/4s and a 2/3 where they only get 3 1/1 chumps. Or 1 3/4 and 2 2/3 no blockers. The deck I have built for them is exp one with thopters and memnites. I've dropped some crazy hands down for turn 3 kills. It's rare though.
At the comment about the crazy green numbers. What? Is it worded that way? I thought it was cast for free they get 10 life you get mana. Did I miss something?