theres a huge difference between haste and what is on the card. if he had haste, if your opp control magic'd it, he could attk right away. as its written, he cant.
Wouldn't it be must more efficient to word it something like:
Haste
If ~ entered the battlefield after combat then search?
Just seams must less wordy this way. So if someone control magic its they get to swing that turn. Big deal. The short wording of the card far outlays anything else.
Wouldn't it be must more efficient to word it something like:
Haste
If ~ entered the battlefield after combat then search?
Just seams must less wordy this way. So if someone control magic its they get to swing that turn. Big deal. The short wording of the card far outlays anything else.
But that isn't exactly the same. If someone would, for example, blink him in the combat step, he doesn't have haste anymore and still doesn't search for a land. OR you could need his haste for something else than attacking, if a certain equipment/enchantment is attached to him. If that is true, you still need to cast him before the combat step.
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But that isn't exactly the same. If someone would, for example, blink him in the combat step, he doesn't have haste anymore and still doesn't search for a land. OR you could need his haste for something else than attacking, if a certain equipment/enchantment is attached to him. If that is true, you still need to cast him before the combat step.
Those situations are also very narrow. I can't think of a broad situation where the two wordings work completely differently. Even the blink idea doesn't work, since you can just blink him during declare blockers step anyway, which is usually when people use blinking effects. I'm not entirely sure if it's really worth the extra wordings just for relatively minor situations.
Even with equipment (like viridian longbow or something), it doesn't seem all that important to me whether or not the guy has haste or not.
Those situations are also very narrow. I can't think of a broad situation where the two wordings work completely differently. Even the blink idea doesn't work, since you can just blink him during declare blockers step anyway, which is usually when people use blinking effects. I'm not entirely sure if it's really worth the extra wordings just for relatively minor situations.
Even with equipment (like viridian longbow or something), it doesn't seem all that important to me whether or not the guy has haste or not.
But some cards say that 'if a creature attacks'. If they blink this guy in the attack step, before attackers are declared, that won't be triggered. Not a big chance, but it is there, so there is a difference.
Besides, now you have to choose between attacking or putting a land in play.
I'd say that's mechanically equitable to the current template but reads a little better. However, I think there is more design space Memnarch's way. Looking at when you played it could be used on non-creature spells and creature abilities that matter during combat; caring only about whether it attacked the turn you played it is limited to hasty creatures.
Also, with that other wording, your opponent has an opportunity to negate the land fetch ability with removal... I think that would hurt the playability of such a card.
I'd probably be inclined to cut down the wording this way:
When Meridian Tiller enters the battlefield, if it is your precombat main phase, it gains haste until end of turn. Otherwise, you may search your library for a basic land card, reveal it, and put it into your hand. If you do, shuffle your library.
Reduces wording and also provides the clever with a bonus for sneaking it out during other phases, by devious means. (Also presents a standard structure for other phase-benefits, making the most of the design space: "When BLAH enters the battlefield, if it is UPKEEP/COMBAT/NOT YOUR TURN, BENEFIT#1. Otherwise, SOMETHING ELSE.") Could easily use it with white (a medic coming postcombat raises dead), blue (not your turn = counter), and so forth.
That wouldn't function. If it's not your precombat main phase, that ability won't trigger.
"Otherwise" does not properly refer to what you think, either, since the semantics of that 'if' are technical. It doesn't refer to anything. So that's not an ability, actually.
I'm bothered by the card having a humanoid subtype. The name and mechanic (but especially the name) strongly suggested some kind of agglomerate nature-smorgash or elemental thing, like Groundbreaker or Ulasht.
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That wouldn't function. If it's not your precombat main phase, that ability won't trigger.
"Otherwise" does not properly refer to what you think, either, since the semantics of that 'if' are technical. It doesn't refer to anything. So that's not an ability, actually.
I'm bothered by the card having a humanoid subtype. The name and mechanic (but especially the name) strongly suggested some kind of agglomerate nature-smorgash or elemental thing, like Groundbreaker or Ulasht.
His wording isn't right? It seemed quite logical to me.
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So what happens when you play it in your 2nd main phase after playing a relentless assault? I'm not sure pre-combat or post-combat mean anything rules-wise.
So while we are nitpicking templating on this awesome card....
"When ~ enters the battlefield, choose one; ~ gains haste until end of turn; or search your library for a basic land card, reveal it, and put it into your hand, then shuffle your library."
Not mechanically identical but that's how WotC would make the card look.
So while we are nitpicking templating on this awesome card....
"When ~ enters the battlefield, choose one; ~ gains haste until end of turn; or search your library for a basic land card, reveal it, and put it into your hand, then shuffle your library."
Not mechanically identical but that's how WotC would make the card look.
But the thing is, this hasn't been tried before and it has a slight difference in game.
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But the thing is, this hasn't been tried before and it has a slight difference in game.
And, as has been said before, Menarch's version has more design space to expand on whereas other template options are limited to just this specific card.
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First off, cheers for choosing this design for CotM August 09.
Now, to address the issue: flavorfully, I was aiming to have this duality between precombat and postcombat (as hinted at by the flavor text, which probably could use some work--it is also not on the render, but that doesn't bother me). I choose a haste effect and a Rampant Growth effect to sort of represent this ardent farmer: he'll fight to the death for his land, but if there's no conflict, he'll continue to reap the rewards of his harvest.
The biggest issue I've noted people having with this design is that the first ability grants haste. The templating would not be a problem if it granted first strike, or some other lasting ability, but it would change the flavor entirely. (If I were to design a cycle of these, I wouldn't remove the pre/post combat main phase formatting, because it's not as if haste is the only ability I would grant.) Obviously, haste isn't exactly important beyond the turn it enters the battlefield, but other abilities are noted with much more relevance (partially due to their lasting capabilities, as noted above). That's what I was aiming at.
Of course, I'll take criticism/commentary and the like. As for the creature type, yes, it could use work. *thinks*
When Meridian Tiller enters the battlefield, Choose one — Meridian Tiller gains haste until end of turn; or search your library for a basic land card, reveal it, and put it into your hand. Then shuffle your library.
I know it changes the functionality but the impact is minimal and reads much better while avoiding mentioning pre/post-combat which Mark Gottlieb would probably appreciate. This also increases the power ever so slightly, allowing you to tutor up a land and drop it pre-combat AND trigger the Tiller's ability during any phase with cards like Flash. If you are wondering why I removed the "may/if" clause it's because you can simply give it haste if you don't want a land.
In general, giving players more options is always more attractive than limiting their choice. If you then re-used the feature, in a cycle for example you may have a creature that reads:
Blue Timing Guy - 1U
pre-combat drop: target creature gains flying until eot
post-combat drop: draw a card then discard a card.
1/2
The card still has incentives relating to pre and post combat but you may really want to sift for your combat trick and find this limitation very frustrating. I also feel that as it currently reads the precombat effect should be stronger as you're having to tap your mana before combat.
As for the way it plays, opening design space etc. an important part of good design is elegance, simplicity and consistent formatting. Making one effect comabt relevent is a far more effective approach to design than bringing pre/post-combat main phase conditions onto the card.
Obviously, haste isn't exactly important beyond the turn it enters the battlefield, but other abilities are noted with much more relevance (partially due to their lasting capabilities, as noted above). That's what I was aiming at.
The only effect that I'd let persit past EoT is a +1/+1 counter or else you create memory issues.
Haste
If ~ entered the battlefield after combat then search?
Just seams must less wordy this way. So if someone control magic its they get to swing that turn. Big deal. The short wording of the card far outlays anything else.
But that isn't exactly the same. If someone would, for example, blink him in the combat step, he doesn't have haste anymore and still doesn't search for a land. OR you could need his haste for something else than attacking, if a certain equipment/enchantment is attached to him. If that is true, you still need to cast him before the combat step.
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Those situations are also very narrow. I can't think of a broad situation where the two wordings work completely differently. Even the blink idea doesn't work, since you can just blink him during declare blockers step anyway, which is usually when people use blinking effects. I'm not entirely sure if it's really worth the extra wordings just for relatively minor situations.
Even with equipment (like viridian longbow or something), it doesn't seem all that important to me whether or not the guy has haste or not.
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3, in a weenie deck, on turn 4, on the play, so that they cant wrath until turn 7 seems quite strong
But some cards say that 'if a creature attacks'. If they blink this guy in the attack step, before attackers are declared, that won't be triggered. Not a big chance, but it is there, so there is a difference.
Besides, now you have to choose between attacking or putting a land in play.
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Also, with that other wording, your opponent has an opportunity to negate the land fetch ability with removal... I think that would hurt the playability of such a card.
That wouldn't function. If it's not your precombat main phase, that ability won't trigger.
"Otherwise" does not properly refer to what you think, either, since the semantics of that 'if' are technical. It doesn't refer to anything. So that's not an ability, actually.
I'm bothered by the card having a humanoid subtype. The name and mechanic (but especially the name) strongly suggested some kind of agglomerate nature-smorgash or elemental thing, like Groundbreaker or Ulasht.
Awesome avatar provided by Krashbot @ [Epic Graphics].
His wording isn't right? It seemed quite logical to me.
Your cry I hear
I'll catch you
And I'll catch your tears
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"When ~ enters the battlefield, choose one; ~ gains haste until end of turn; or search your library for a basic land card, reveal it, and put it into your hand, then shuffle your library."
Not mechanically identical but that's how WotC would make the card look.
But the thing is, this hasn't been tried before and it has a slight difference in game.
Your cry I hear
I'll catch you
And I'll catch your tears
-
http://signup.leagueoflegends.com/?ref=4e0ab040511b7989424707
And, as has been said before, Menarch's version has more design space to expand on whereas other template options are limited to just this specific card.
Current New Favorite Person™: Mallory Archer
She knows why.
Now, to address the issue: flavorfully, I was aiming to have this duality between precombat and postcombat (as hinted at by the flavor text, which probably could use some work--it is also not on the render, but that doesn't bother me). I choose a haste effect and a Rampant Growth effect to sort of represent this ardent farmer: he'll fight to the death for his land, but if there's no conflict, he'll continue to reap the rewards of his harvest.
The biggest issue I've noted people having with this design is that the first ability grants haste. The templating would not be a problem if it granted first strike, or some other lasting ability, but it would change the flavor entirely. (If I were to design a cycle of these, I wouldn't remove the pre/post combat main phase formatting, because it's not as if haste is the only ability I would grant.) Obviously, haste isn't exactly important beyond the turn it enters the battlefield, but other abilities are noted with much more relevance (partially due to their lasting capabilities, as noted above). That's what I was aiming at.
Of course, I'll take criticism/commentary and the like. As for the creature type, yes, it could use work. *thinks*
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Your cry I hear
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When Meridian Tiller enters the battlefield, Choose one — Meridian Tiller gains haste until end of turn; or search your library for a basic land card, reveal it, and put it into your hand. Then shuffle your library.
I know it changes the functionality but the impact is minimal and reads much better while avoiding mentioning pre/post-combat which Mark Gottlieb would probably appreciate. This also increases the power ever so slightly, allowing you to tutor up a land and drop it pre-combat AND trigger the Tiller's ability during any phase with cards like Flash. If you are wondering why I removed the "may/if" clause it's because you can simply give it haste if you don't want a land.
In general, giving players more options is always more attractive than limiting their choice. If you then re-used the feature, in a cycle for example you may have a creature that reads:
Blue Timing Guy - 1U
pre-combat drop: target creature gains flying until eot
post-combat drop: draw a card then discard a card.
1/2
The card still has incentives relating to pre and post combat but you may really want to sift for your combat trick and find this limitation very frustrating. I also feel that as it currently reads the precombat effect should be stronger as you're having to tap your mana before combat.
As for the way it plays, opening design space etc. an important part of good design is elegance, simplicity and consistent formatting. Making one effect comabt relevent is a far more effective approach to design than bringing pre/post-combat main phase conditions onto the card.
The only effect that I'd let persit past EoT is a +1/+1 counter or else you create memory issues.