Guys, so what if you're gaining card advantage. If you played Divination, you would get 2 cards for 1. With this, you get 1 card for 1, until next turn, then it's 1 more, and so on.
He has to stay on the board FIVE turns without getting hit in order to pull off the ultimate. Compare this with Liliana, Ajani V, and Nissa at the 4 turn mark, Chandra Nalaar at 3 turns, and Chandra Ablaze at a mere 2 turns on the board before ultimate.
Coincidentally, Elspeth also has to stay on for five turns without getting hit. They both have similar +1 abilities as well. Target creature gets +3/+3 flying (better than Balach's frog spell), or a 1/1 chump blocker, providing creature advantage. Balach gets card or land advantage. Elspeth is costed at 2WW, so it's even easier to cast.
He's not overpowered. He's about the same power as Elspeth, with the same amount of turns for ultimate, and similar +1 abilities.
Guys, so what if you're gaining card advantage. If you played Divination, you would get 2 cards for 1. With this, you get 1 card for 1, until next turn, then it's 1 more, and so on.
He has to stay on the board FIVE turns without getting hit in order to pull off the ultimate. Compare this with Liliana, Ajani V, and Nissa at the 4 turn mark, Chandra Nalaar at 3 turns, and Chandra Ablaze at a mere 2 turns on the board before ultimate.
Coincidentally, Elspeth also has to stay on for five turns without getting hit. They both have similar +1 abilities as well. Target creature gets +3/+3 flying (better than Balach's frog spell), or a 1/1 chump blocker, providing creature advantage. Balach gets card or land advantage. Elspeth is costed at 2WW, so it's even easier to cast.
He's not overpowered. He's about the same power as Elspeth, with the same amount of turns for ultimate, and similar +1 abilities.
I really disagree. Look at Jace Beleren. People play him over divination. In the absolute worst worst situation, you draw a card, and this guy absorbs 5 (or more) damage for ye. Besides, he can give you immediate advantage by putting the land onto the battlefield.
Who wants to use the ultimate anyway? I mean, sure, it's a good bonus, but as you said, it'll take you five turns. By that time, you already got youself five extra cards. It's just like both the Jaces, the chance you're going to use the ultimate is slim, but they give you a lot of advantage until then.
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I could see it at 0 for his second power but not -1, he'd just end up losing you lands when frogs got squished.
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For a CMC of 4 and being dual-colored, his power level seems more-or-less appropriate.
I like the card a lot.
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Ok so I tried asking people questions about the rules, and not even the administrators would answer me.
Can I use programs like photoshop and adobe illustrator to make pictures for the art contests? I mean that's what some of the artists at Wizards use along with a wakum tablet (a tablet that is for programs lie photoshop and whatever you draw on it gets drawn in photoshop).
Also if I wanted to make my own card from the picture (which I don't think I can but I want to make sure), using some magic card making program (magic set editor) could I submit that as the finished art product?
He's not overpowered. He's about the same power as Elspeth
No, he's not. He's ridiculous. Absolutely ridiculous. He can be a draw engine like Jace or a mana engine like Garruk, all in one card. You defend him with Wall of Roots until you hardcast an Eldrazi or just set off his ultimate and win in an even more dominating way than the Mind Sculptor's. It's oppressive munchkin design, an all-time low for YMTC.
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What if you just had that angel that didn't let your opponents use activated abilities? Or what if you could just counter it? What about Vampire Hexmage or Oblivion Ring? Plainswalkers are overrated, there are many ways to deal with them.
Honestly it's a little like Ajani destroying all lands, and you might say its not because your have so many more lands, but its not like you would ever need all those lands unless your running like an eldrazi deck, which you shouldn't be using green and blue for anyway.
On top of that its also an Oracle Del Mul Dal, which is mostly only helpful for a Valakut decks or landfall decks. I guess it would be a little helpful in Edrazi decks, but that's what all those cards that let you put eldrazi tokens into play are for.
He should cost one more. 3GU, as stated above would be fine. Also, I think his second ability should at least be -1, but I really think it should be -2. I'd keep him starting at 4. Besides direct burn, GU has tons of creatures, besides just green, so I think he would be safe by turn 5. And about the frog... we should make it one of those pigmy hippo cards just for kicks. One of them flys.
It DOES combo nicely with each other, though it is limited. You'd like the ultimate first, then send their lands at them. You also run the chance of getting a land from the second ability. Of course, there is many ways to abuse his ultimate's resolution once you have their lands. As for the walker himself, I will say nothing about Gilder Bairn, which makes him broken.
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It would make more sense if the lands turned into turtles since some Western Indian religions say that the land was formed on the back of a giant turtle. I don't know anything mythology or religion that says land turns into frogs though, and a good portion of magic card art is based off of mythological things and even things from the bible.
What if you just had that angel that didn't let your opponents use activated abilities? Or what if you could just counter it? What about Vampire Hexmage or Oblivion Ring? Plainswalkers are overrated, there are many ways to deal with them.
Honestly it's a little like Ajani destroying all lands, and you might say its not because your have so many more lands, but its not like you would ever need all those lands unless your running like an eldrazi deck, which you shouldn't be using green and blue for anyway.
On top of that its also an Oracle Del Mul Dal, which is mostly only helpful for a Valakut decks or landfall decks. I guess it would be a little helpful in Edrazi decks, but that's what all those cards that let you put eldrazi tokens into play are for.
And umm... Pw's rock because they scream 'remove me.' if you get rid of my Pw the turn it enters play, i see this: Spell - "Use an ability that this card has, Target opponent discards removal." If you attack it. I just gained some life, theoretically. And if you dont kill it, It's a free spell every single turn until you do.
I'm not suggesting anything about your level of experience with this game, but you should really try to understand cards, and their respective colors, before discussing about them.
@ Red Archon: I concurr almost entirely. I'm troubled by the fact that a G/U walker is just what is needed for the color pie atm and... it's been so badly designed. =[
All the token making pw's have relevant pet types. This one? bleh. it should have been snake or elemental. And the evasion should have been 'nonbasic landwalk'
to start with 4 loyalty counters and no '-' abilities it should've costed five.
or
the second ability needs to be balanced.
I would rather compare him to other multicolors. vengeant and both vols have nothing that compares to a second ability as play advantage as this guy has.
Last note, considering the first ability, wth is up with the art? An ancient saproling-treefolk like entity making... jumping frogs?!?
...huh?
All I'm saying for a G/U Player, such as myself, I was really excited to hear that they received a bit of love, but now i see it, the design behind it is farrrrr too underwhelming.
Burden of souls was extremely well designed. So was Enumerate. Us guys have done better. I would have preferred an unplayable card than an unrealistic one.
Skill is an ability that relates more so to the type of deck that's built and how said player pilots it. It also relates to the ability to assess the board and use the cards available to you in the most optimal way relative to each situation.
When a deck is filled with above par cards and every play is solid, there comes a diminishing need to "think" for the lack of wanting to use a better word.
Burden of souls was extremely well designed. So was Enumerate. Us guys have done better. I would have preferred an unplayable card than an unrealistic one.
To be fair, as a community, we're still relatively new at designing cards together. And in my opinion, planeswalkers are by far the most difficult cards to design well. Designing through collaboration makes it even harder. While this card may not be as polished as our first two efforts, it's really not terrible and would only need a few minor tweaks to be fixed. If nothing else, it's a good learning experience.
Asking out a girl is like trying to cast a first turn Necropotence. Sometimes the other player will have the Force of Will to say no. You shouldn't let that stop you from trying it.
He dies to Oblivion Ring, Maelstrom Pulse, Mold Shambler kicked, two bolts, etc. All planeswalkers are overpowered compared to other (non-mythic) cards. Even if he is "overpowered", that would just simply mean he's the best Planeswalker.
I love how people are pouring out of every nook and cranny to harp on our planewalking friend, yet were nowhere to be seen during voting and suggesting.
Also, frogs are awesome. They are amphibious (which is good since they will be made out of forests or islands most of the time), tree frogs are adorable, and frogs tend to jump. I don't see why it's an unfit subtype.
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I love how people are pouring out of every nook and cranny to harp on our planewalking friend, yet were nowhere to be seen during voting and suggesting.
Also, frogs are awesome. They are amphibious (which is good since they will be made out of forests or islands most of the time), tree frogs are adorable, and frogs tend to jump. I don't see why it's an unfit subtype.
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It was at that moment that I realized: I'm kinda just making these things up. We can just write the rules the way we want them to work. People will have fun, and people will get it.
I love how people are pouring out of every nook and cranny to harp on our planewalking friend, yet were nowhere to be seen during voting and suggesting.
Also, frogs are awesome. They are amphibious (which is good since they will be made out of forests or islands most of the time), tree frogs are adorable, and frogs tend to jump. I don't see why it's an unfit subtype.
--
True.
I still think the card draw +1 is too good. I know I ddn't vote, but that really isn't the point, is it?
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I still think the card draw +1 is too good. I know I ddn't vote, but that really isn't the point, is it?
Well actually, it kinda is the point. So many people have come here and complained about the power level of this card, saying how it was a disappointment or bad design, yet many of them didn't express this opinion in the polls. Had these people actually participated, this card could have been better, but instead we hear complaining. If you don't like how the card turned out, then its your job to do something about it.
Basically, if you care enough about the card to complain about it, then you should care enough about it to take a part in its creation.
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"In the beginning, MTG Salvation switched to a new forum format.
This has made a lot of people very angry and been widely regarded as a bad move."
It was at that moment that I realized: I'm kinda just making these things up. We can just write the rules the way we want them to work. People will have fun, and people will get it.
I love how people are pouring out of every nook and cranny to harp on our planewalking friend, yet were nowhere to be seen during voting and suggesting.
Also, frogs are awesome. They are amphibious (which is good since they will be made out of forests or islands most of the time), tree frogs are adorable, and frogs tend to jump. I don't see why it's an unfit subtype.
--
I absolutely agree with you my friend.
I, being highly upset, should have participated. But due to circumstance, I didnt.
My only remark is, what's the point of displaying the card out to the general public, if you dont want it to be critiqued?
No one is stressing the idea 'go fix it', if anything i see, 'it could have been better'.
'It could have been better' means the people who were involved are far more than capable of discerning what a good card and bad card is made of. And the community expected that quality.
So to tell me not to address you about it because it's not my crying baby... well... I'm sure I'm not the only one who takes the subway. If you cant make it stop crying, dont become apprehensive because I offer suggestions.
And honestly, the polls are flawed IMO. My involvment would have made almost no difference.
About frogs... i think the complaint is more so about the flavor than the actual type of card. If the art was a giant frog with lillies growing out of it's back and smaller frogs meandering about it, this would of made sense. At least even something in the art, something representing a landform becoming a frog (what?) would have been nice. easier to digest. Explain mountains and plains turning into frogs. really.
Once more not a relevant pet type (going against what the three prior producers can do). and once more it could have been designed better.
Granted, it is a powerful card. My 'harp', if you will, is on the efficacy of design. Not the card itself.
To say i should have participated to make this card 'that much better' is to say i should not expect anything good from the community unless i'm part of it. And that's saddening. Who do i play magic with? where are the 'think tanks' at?
Dont tell me to expect less from my community because i'm not actively part of it. before finalization, no one who was involved took a good look at what was being made? I care about what kind of work is being done as much as what the work produces.
Skill is an ability that relates more so to the type of deck that's built and how said player pilots it. It also relates to the ability to assess the board and use the cards available to you in the most optimal way relative to each situation.
When a deck is filled with above par cards and every play is solid, there comes a diminishing need to "think" for the lack of wanting to use a better word.
My only remark is, what's the point of displaying the card out to the general public, if you dont want it to be critiqued?
Mostly, to be enjoyed by the people who created it and anyone else who happens to enjoy it. Seeing as how this is a collaberative process and anyone can stroll in and vote on the polls without paying attention to anything else, critiquing the card has very little potential to be constructive. It's not like speaking to an individual designer.
And on that note, I've had about enough of this thread. This process is intended to be fun. Nothing more, nothing less. And whether the end result is something to be praised or criticized, I will not let the discussion threads turn into bickering that makes it less fun for everyone.
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He has to stay on the board FIVE turns without getting hit in order to pull off the ultimate. Compare this with Liliana, Ajani V, and Nissa at the 4 turn mark, Chandra Nalaar at 3 turns, and Chandra Ablaze at a mere 2 turns on the board before ultimate.
Coincidentally, Elspeth also has to stay on for five turns without getting hit. They both have similar +1 abilities as well. Target creature gets +3/+3 flying (better than Balach's frog spell), or a 1/1 chump blocker, providing creature advantage. Balach gets card or land advantage. Elspeth is costed at 2WW, so it's even easier to cast.
He's not overpowered. He's about the same power as Elspeth, with the same amount of turns for ultimate, and similar +1 abilities.
I really disagree. Look at Jace Beleren. People play him over divination. In the absolute worst worst situation, you draw a card, and this guy absorbs 5 (or more) damage for ye. Besides, he can give you immediate advantage by putting the land onto the battlefield.
Who wants to use the ultimate anyway? I mean, sure, it's a good bonus, but as you said, it'll take you five turns. By that time, you already got youself five extra cards. It's just like both the Jaces, the chance you're going to use the ultimate is slim, but they give you a lot of advantage until then.
Your cry I hear
I'll catch you
And I'll catch your tears
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http://signup.leagueoflegends.com/?ref=4e0ab040511b7989424707
I'm a proud member of the Online Campaign for Real English. If you believe in capital letters, correct spelling, and good sentence structure, then copy this into your signature.
"People with needs have trivial purchasing power while people with purchasing power have trivial needs."
-Steve Randy Waldman, Interfludity
I like the card a lot.
I’m standing on my Monopoly board
That means I’m on top of my game
And it don't stop 'til my hip don’t hop anymore
Can I use programs like photoshop and adobe illustrator to make pictures for the art contests? I mean that's what some of the artists at Wizards use along with a wakum tablet (a tablet that is for programs lie photoshop and whatever you draw on it gets drawn in photoshop).
Also if I wanted to make my own card from the picture (which I don't think I can but I want to make sure), using some magic card making program (magic set editor) could I submit that as the finished art product?
No, he's not. He's ridiculous. Absolutely ridiculous. He can be a draw engine like Jace or a mana engine like Garruk, all in one card. You defend him with Wall of Roots until you hardcast an Eldrazi or just set off his ultimate and win in an even more dominating way than the Mind Sculptor's. It's oppressive munchkin design, an all-time low for YMTC.
Honestly it's a little like Ajani destroying all lands, and you might say its not because your have so many more lands, but its not like you would ever need all those lands unless your running like an eldrazi deck, which you shouldn't be using green and blue for anyway.
On top of that its also an Oracle Del Mul Dal, which is mostly only helpful for a Valakut decks or landfall decks. I guess it would be a little helpful in Edrazi decks, but that's what all those cards that let you put eldrazi tokens into play are for.
It DOES combo nicely with each other, though it is limited. You'd like the ultimate first, then send their lands at them. You also run the chance of getting a land from the second ability. Of course, there is many ways to abuse his ultimate's resolution once you have their lands. As for the walker himself, I will say nothing about Gilder Bairn, which makes him broken.
B Dark Ides Life DrainR Rekindle Skies Phoenix TribalWB Veil Oath Tokens
BR Brutal Scourge Eldrazi TribalRW Edge Worthy Mid-Range AggroGU Wisp Away Combo
GWU Vigorous Flow Energy
Commander / EDH:
RFeldon of the Third Path
GURashmi, Eternities Crafter
RWBMathas, Fiend Hunter
GWUBAtraxa, Praetor's Voice
Huh? wait dont tell me Summoning trap and Polymorph changed colors?!?!? aww man...
And umm... Pw's rock because they scream 'remove me.' if you get rid of my Pw the turn it enters play, i see this: Spell - "Use an ability that this card has, Target opponent discards removal." If you attack it. I just gained some life, theoretically. And if you dont kill it, It's a free spell every single turn until you do.
I'm not suggesting anything about your level of experience with this game, but you should really try to understand cards, and their respective colors, before discussing about them.
@ Red Archon: I concurr almost entirely. I'm troubled by the fact that a G/U walker is just what is needed for the color pie atm and... it's been so badly designed. =[
All the token making pw's have relevant pet types. This one? bleh. it should have been snake or elemental. And the evasion should have been 'nonbasic landwalk'
to start with 4 loyalty counters and no '-' abilities it should've costed five.
or
the second ability needs to be balanced.
I would rather compare him to other multicolors. vengeant and both vols have nothing that compares to a second ability as play advantage as this guy has.
Last note, considering the first ability, wth is up with the art? An ancient saproling-treefolk like entity making... jumping frogs?!?
...huh?
All I'm saying for a G/U Player, such as myself, I was really excited to hear that they received a bit of love, but now i see it, the design behind it is farrrrr too underwhelming.
Burden of souls was extremely well designed. So was Enumerate. Us guys have done better. I would have preferred an unplayable card than an unrealistic one.
Skill is an ability that relates more so to the type of deck that's built and how said player pilots it. It also relates to the ability to assess the board and use the cards available to you in the most optimal way relative to each situation.
When a deck is filled with above par cards and every play is solid, there comes a diminishing need to "think" for the lack of wanting to use a better word.
To be fair, as a community, we're still relatively new at designing cards together. And in my opinion, planeswalkers are by far the most difficult cards to design well. Designing through collaboration makes it even harder. While this card may not be as polished as our first two efforts, it's really not terrible and would only need a few minor tweaks to be fixed. If nothing else, it's a good learning experience.
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Also, frogs are awesome. They are amphibious (which is good since they will be made out of forests or islands most of the time), tree frogs are adorable, and frogs tend to jump. I don't see why it's an unfit subtype.
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True.
I still think the card draw +1 is too good. I know I ddn't vote, but that really isn't the point, is it?
Your cry I hear
I'll catch you
And I'll catch your tears
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Well actually, it kinda is the point. So many people have come here and complained about the power level of this card, saying how it was a disappointment or bad design, yet many of them didn't express this opinion in the polls. Had these people actually participated, this card could have been better, but instead we hear complaining. If you don't like how the card turned out, then its your job to do something about it.
Basically, if you care enough about the card to complain about it, then you should care enough about it to take a part in its creation.
This has made a lot of people very angry and been widely regarded as a bad move."
Comic Book Set
Archester: Frontier of Steam (A steampunk set!)
A Good Place to Start Designing
Your cry I hear
I'll catch you
And I'll catch your tears
-
http://signup.leagueoflegends.com/?ref=4e0ab040511b7989424707
I absolutely agree with you my friend.
I, being highly upset, should have participated. But due to circumstance, I didnt.
My only remark is, what's the point of displaying the card out to the general public, if you dont want it to be critiqued?
No one is stressing the idea 'go fix it', if anything i see, 'it could have been better'.
'It could have been better' means the people who were involved are far more than capable of discerning what a good card and bad card is made of. And the community expected that quality.
So to tell me not to address you about it because it's not my crying baby... well... I'm sure I'm not the only one who takes the subway. If you cant make it stop crying, dont become apprehensive because I offer suggestions.
And honestly, the polls are flawed IMO. My involvment would have made almost no difference.
About frogs... i think the complaint is more so about the flavor than the actual type of card. If the art was a giant frog with lillies growing out of it's back and smaller frogs meandering about it, this would of made sense. At least even something in the art, something representing a landform becoming a frog (what?) would have been nice. easier to digest. Explain mountains and plains turning into frogs. really.
Once more not a relevant pet type (going against what the three prior producers can do). and once more it could have been designed better.
Granted, it is a powerful card. My 'harp', if you will, is on the efficacy of design. Not the card itself.
To say i should have participated to make this card 'that much better' is to say i should not expect anything good from the community unless i'm part of it. And that's saddening. Who do i play magic with? where are the 'think tanks' at?
Dont tell me to expect less from my community because i'm not actively part of it. before finalization, no one who was involved took a good look at what was being made? I care about what kind of work is being done as much as what the work produces.
Skill is an ability that relates more so to the type of deck that's built and how said player pilots it. It also relates to the ability to assess the board and use the cards available to you in the most optimal way relative to each situation.
When a deck is filled with above par cards and every play is solid, there comes a diminishing need to "think" for the lack of wanting to use a better word.
Your cry I hear
I'll catch you
And I'll catch your tears
-
http://signup.leagueoflegends.com/?ref=4e0ab040511b7989424707
Mostly, to be enjoyed by the people who created it and anyone else who happens to enjoy it. Seeing as how this is a collaberative process and anyone can stroll in and vote on the polls without paying attention to anything else, critiquing the card has very little potential to be constructive. It's not like speaking to an individual designer.
And on that note, I've had about enough of this thread. This process is intended to be fun. Nothing more, nothing less. And whether the end result is something to be praised or criticized, I will not let the discussion threads turn into bickering that makes it less fun for everyone.
Current New Favorite Person™: Mallory Archer
She knows why.