This is perhaps my favourite YMTC design ever! No complex text and a polarising mechanic used in an exciting new way.
I think I'd make it Legendary to prevent it being strictly better than the Lairs (this wouldn't negatively effect EDH). This would also help the flavour of a land that 'levels up' by giving it some character and identity.
There is a thin line between powerful and broken, however, people maybe only be looking at this through Standard's eyes, where it will just be unplayable.
For the older sets, with something like Mana Bond or Explortation, and untap effects, I could imagine something going wrong.
(Not directed at you specifically.)
Wizards printed Ad Nauseum and Tezzeret, the Seeker. Does anyone think they really are that worried about breaking older formats? They can just ban something if needed. (or they can let vintage continue to squalor, after all it's not even a sanctioned format.)
It might be a busted card in competitive eternal. So what? Wizards prints stuff like that all the time. They don't hardly even test for eternal so it's not surprising. Eternal is the land of busted things, and it inevitably will get more busted over time as new cards are printed. If it doesn't effect "real" formats like standard and limited, they don't care. Don't see why custom cards should be held to a higher standard.
MOON-E: You misunderstand. Naanomi is quite right: the card is blatantly overpowered.
Pros:
1) When you have no lands in hand, it's mana accel, acting as if you had a land in hand. Tap a land, use the level-up ability on that land, replay the land and tap it again.
So Ravnica lands are overpowered? Because it do the exact same thing, you know? One mana first turn, one mana second turn, 3 mana third turn with only 2 lands. GJ!
2) Color fix: When you've returned 5 lands to your hand, it makes WUBRG.
Gj, you wasted 6 turn on one mana just to have 6 mana by turn 7. The WURBG clause is viable only in extreme late game unless u plan on being bad and playing with one mana for 6 turn while your opponent lay down jaces Goyfs and Kotr and u cast Steppe Linx. Then what actually? What deck actually play WURBG cards? Or it's even 5 colored? Mb some form of control in a very, very, slow format, but control can't stand so many turns crippled on mana just to have more mana fix or the ability to have 6 mana on T7 with just 2 lands.
3) When you drop a land wipe you save all your lands. Play it, level it up to 5 immediately, tap it, level it up with itself, cast Armageddon.
Armageddon is played in the same format where wasteland and force of will are legal. This card would never see play in a format with wasteland, so this point is utterly and completely null. Also, again, no one play geddon in Legacy, and there are reason for it, just sayin'
Cons:
Can someone offer one? >_< Sure, if you play it badly it could backfire, but that's a silly argument. If you're playing it properly it's only at most going to set you back one land drop (in response to the first level-up, destroy it). Entirely worth the benefits no matter in which of the above ways you build around it.
I find it hard to find a pro, this card would be just playable in T2 and extended as a decent alternative to ravnica bounce lands, but those lands were played only in a format where WB with Isamaru was considered an aggressive deck, and that had a fundamental turn of what? 6? Lol.
Hmmm. I think the 1 of any mana is a bit disturbing without a consequence. Pretty much turn 2 Im dropping a birds of paradise land with no negative consequence. By 3-4 Im playing all 5 colors off 1 land.
I like the concept, but I think the final ability comes to soon. I mean, basically, you can tap 5 lands for 5 mana and spend it, then put this thing in play, return the 5 lands, get 5 more mana and get back a land the next turn. Plus you still have the 5 extra mana. Though it's true that they can then boomerang it back to your hand or kill the land (I admit that would screw you) it might be too much.
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So here I am
Your cry I hear
I'll catch you
And I'll catch your tears
How's that? This land saves all your lands from wasteland...They try to wasteland one of your lands, you level up this one. And the opponent is down a card
Or they could, you know, Wasteland this land...
The sorcery speed of Level up is what prevents this land from being straight up broken. Any form of removal and this land is gone.
It was at that moment that I realized: I'm kinda just making these things up. We can just write the rules the way we want them to work. People will have fun, and people will get it.
How's that? This land saves all your lands from wasteland...They try to wasteland one of your lands, you level up this one. And the opponent is down a card
Why does everybody forget that level up is sorcery speed? godam
I don't usually post in these threads but I liked this card and the amount of silliness flying around irked me. It's a fun little card that imho would likely not see play in any format (due to its extreme fragility and the tempo loss of lands being bounced should it be messed with). If I had a custom cube I would definitely throw it in for funsies.
For me the Level up cost is what makes this slightly broken.
1. Once in a while you will really miss a land drop and this is cost is not just free, but adds an additional mana as well (Quirion Ranger style)
2. This card singlehandedly makes Landfall broken... enabling it every turn.
The excercise of this Custom card is design, anyways; and this is of a real good design. Congrats!
EDIT: When I reread the Armageddon comment and I realized that this is so broken with that...
very intriguing 5c land. Nice use of level up imo. nice work guys!
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The true mind can weather all the lies and illusions without being lost. The true heart can tough the poison of hatred without being harmed. Since beginning-less time, darkness thrives in the void but always yields to purifying light.
I invision a future where one is not mighty when he can silence a crowd with brutality,
but when he leaves them speechless with wisdom.
Obviously a bit too good for EDH, because you know of cards like Cataclysm, Winter Orb, Primeval Titan, and Tooth and Nail.
It would send shock waves through standard. Unless Tectonic edge was in the format, else wise you could never tap out past turn 5 for fear of getting immediately blown out.
I think standard is what would make this card a definite no go.
Legacy/Extended its fine. There are sicker things that can be done.
Why does everyone think this is incredibly broken..? It handicaps your land count up until you get it's final ability off..
If you're leveling it up every turn:
Turn 1: Drop this. You have one generic. Level 0.
Turn 2: Drop another land, tap it, bounce the land. Two mana. Level 1.
Turn 3: Drop another land, tap it, bounce the land. Two mana. Level 2.
Turn 4: Drop another land, tap it, bounce the land. Two mana. Level 3.
Turn 5: Drop another land, tap it, bounce the land. Two mana. Level 4.
Turn 6: Drop another land, tap it, bounce the land. Six mana. Level 5.
Why does everyone scream this card is broken? Yes, it's great against an Armageddon and what not, but what does that do? I have a hand full of land. Oh boy. Now I have to start the same slow process all over again. Also remember, that every land you bounce, is a possible land you draw, and that starts filling up your hand.
IMO, not bannable, but a great card for things like Sunburst.
All this, assuming I'm not mistaken. A little buzzed, though.
The create-a-cards out of here have been hit or miss lately, but I really like this one. It's undeniably powerful, but also very risky because there are tons of instant speed answers to it. I feel that the risk and reward here is well balanced and I'd be excited to play with this card in any format. My only complaint mechanically is that this should definitely be a mythic rare.
A few people seem to forget you can only level up as a sorcery, so it cannot, in fact, save itself.
This card has a ton of easy answers, so in a format where it existed, people would play around it. It would be too slow in any format without Fastbond, and even then, those formats are beyond broken already. Time Vault + Voltaic Key is still worse than Fastbond + this.
This would merely be a really cool card, nothing more. Even in EDH, this would be just one more crazy thing in a land of crazy things.
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Rules Advisor as of 4/23/10
Regarding Stoneforge Mystic
Quote from oranges2 »
This guy, would either eat up several turns worth of mana to get a slow permanent that relies on your already have some board presence (after wasting said mana), or dies without generating any advantage.
This card is the best user made land I've seen in a while.
No way in any format is this card broken.
Even in table top casual.
If someone is playing fork, one can (hopefully, lol) assume someone else is playing an Erase or something similar.
Hopefully.
::has nightmarish fork flashback::
The YMTC is almost always broken and more often than not violates the color pie; this does neither. It's also a very clean implementation. Well done! It doesn't seem that strong in a vacuum but it's an interesting effect which invites cool interactions.
Why does everyone think this is incredibly broken..? It handicaps your land count up until you get it's final ability off..
If you're leveling it up every turn:
Turn 1: Drop this. You have one generic. Level 0.
Turn 2: Drop another land, tap it, bounce the land. Two mana. Level 1.
Turn 3: Drop another land, tap it, bounce the land. Two mana. Level 2.
Turn 4: Drop another land, tap it, bounce the land. Two mana. Level 3.
Turn 5: Drop another land, tap it, bounce the land. Two mana. Level 4.
Turn 6: Drop another land, tap it, bounce the land. Six mana. Level 5.
Why does everyone scream this card is broken? Yes, it's great against an Armageddon and what not, but what does that do? I have a hand full of land. Oh boy. Now I have to start the same slow process all over again. Also remember, that every land you bounce, is a possible land you draw, and that starts filling up your hand.
IMO, not bannable, but a great card for things like Sunburst.
All this, assuming I'm not mistaken. A little buzzed, though.
This is not how you play this card at all.
You play it as your 6th land, tap all your lands for mana bounce them, for a sweet 4 mana boost which puts you at 10 mana. Then you use that 10 mana to cast Cataclysm, or Time Stretch, or Tooth and Nail. In EDH that is a problem because you this could be happening on turn 4 or so.
In standard it's a different game, because you can hold back the land till someone is tapped out, the play it and blow them out. Almost all control mirrors would resolve around this play.
Trust me, it's good, too good. Wizards would never EVER print this card.
Its a failed design honestly. The spirit of the card, which is to act as a 5c color fixer would rarely if ever be used. More often it would simply end up fueling mana generation combos or one sided land sweeps.
Who said that was the point of the card? Say all you want about the powerlevel, no one ever said we didn't want this to be a top teir land, or that its use was only for fixing. I'm sure the "Sprit" of Deceiver Exarch isn't to make infinite combos of itself, but it was no doubt considered during its conception, as was the ritual effect with this card. Just because it's not being used for its "intended" purpose doesn't make it a failed design.
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This has made a lot of people very angry and been widely regarded as a bad move."
It was at that moment that I realized: I'm kinda just making these things up. We can just write the rules the way we want them to work. People will have fun, and people will get it.
A very good card, but i feel it very generic. I think that you could make something more special for YMTC. Lets make a card that generates 5 five mana is not a brilliant idea but thing got that way. What can i do?
I dont like this card.
About the Powerfull-Broken, i dont think so. It has a lot of synergy with lands with a ETB effect and a 4 set of these could take 2 lands from light mana decks, it fits in any deck anyway and serve as a color fixer also.
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Sig by Heroes of the Plane Studios (Nakamura , DarkNightCavalier, XenoNinja)
This is the ultimate combo to win the game on turn 3
During the times I've played EDH, I've seen some serious BS.
Like, turn 2 Erayo active, turn 4 WIN in a four-player match, Azusa accel/land ramp into Avenger and every infinite win con under the sun.
HOWEVER.
A card like this is not as broken as one thinks.
You can't forget what happens when you play a card like that.
"I play Primal Wellspring."
"☺☺☺☺ HIM UP!"
*instant convergence and subsequent death*
I do agree on the fact that this card should be legendary. I would have loved to see this in Rise when it hit the scene. Landfall every turn is nuts, IF you have the landfall card out. Sunburst would be pretty ridiculous. If it were to go into print, you'd have to ask the 'once a turn' or the 'untapped' thing.
Hmm... what else?
The bouncing itself thing is sorcery-speed along with the one-sided land wipe stuff. My playgroup would stop that kind of crap so fast, it'd make your head spin. Not to mention one said deck is prepared for EVERYTHING (Erayo). It runs Trickbind and such.
All in all, as a land, this card is powerful stuff. I'd run it in Reaper King. I could see it in the Commander decks that Wizards is coming out with. It would be cool.
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I think I'd make it Legendary to prevent it being strictly better than the Lairs (this wouldn't negatively effect EDH). This would also help the flavour of a land that 'levels up' by giving it some character and identity.
(Not directed at you specifically.)
Wizards printed Ad Nauseum and Tezzeret, the Seeker. Does anyone think they really are that worried about breaking older formats? They can just ban something if needed. (or they can let vintage continue to squalor, after all it's not even a sanctioned format.)
It might be a busted card in competitive eternal. So what? Wizards prints stuff like that all the time. They don't hardly even test for eternal so it's not surprising. Eternal is the land of busted things, and it inevitably will get more busted over time as new cards are printed. If it doesn't effect "real" formats like standard and limited, they don't care. Don't see why custom cards should be held to a higher standard.
There are probably 1001 ways to break Fastbond. It's not exactly a solid example.
[Clan Flamingo] Tier Archivist
[15:21] <@CC> Remember, if you argue, you are an idiot.
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So Ravnica lands are overpowered? Because it do the exact same thing, you know? One mana first turn, one mana second turn, 3 mana third turn with only 2 lands. GJ!
Gj, you wasted 6 turn on one mana just to have 6 mana by turn 7. The WURBG clause is viable only in extreme late game unless u plan on being bad and playing with one mana for 6 turn while your opponent lay down jaces Goyfs and Kotr and u cast Steppe Linx. Then what actually? What deck actually play WURBG cards? Or it's even 5 colored? Mb some form of control in a very, very, slow format, but control can't stand so many turns crippled on mana just to have more mana fix or the ability to have 6 mana on T7 with just 2 lands.
Armageddon is played in the same format where wasteland and force of will are legal. This card would never see play in a format with wasteland, so this point is utterly and completely null. Also, again, no one play geddon in Legacy, and there are reason for it, just sayin'
I find it hard to find a pro, this card would be just playable in T2 and extended as a decent alternative to ravnica bounce lands, but those lands were played only in a format where WB with Isamaru was considered an aggressive deck, and that had a fundamental turn of what? 6? Lol.
Playing around tech edge, ritualling, armageddon effects, color fixing. My head hurts thinking about the possibilities.
GRFurnace StompR[MANA]G[/MANA]
- Extended -
G[MANA]R[/MANA]Banefire AscensionRG
- Legacy -
GBerserk StompG
Your cry I hear
I'll catch you
And I'll catch your tears
-
http://signup.leagueoflegends.com/?ref=4e0ab040511b7989424707
Or they could, you know, Wasteland this land...
The sorcery speed of Level up is what prevents this land from being straight up broken. Any form of removal and this land is gone.
This has made a lot of people very angry and been widely regarded as a bad move."
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A Good Place to Start Designing
I don't usually post in these threads but I liked this card and the amount of silliness flying around irked me. It's a fun little card that imho would likely not see play in any format (due to its extreme fragility and the tempo loss of lands being bounced should it be messed with). If I had a custom cube I would definitely throw it in for funsies.
1. Once in a while you will really miss a land drop and this is cost is not just free, but adds an additional mana as well (Quirion Ranger style)
2. This card singlehandedly makes Landfall broken... enabling it every turn.
The excercise of this Custom card is design, anyways; and this is of a real good design. Congrats!
EDIT: When I reread the Armageddon comment and I realized that this is so broken with that...
I invision a future where one is not mighty when he can silence a crowd with brutality,
but when he leaves them speechless with wisdom.
Obviously a bit too good for EDH, because you know of cards like Cataclysm, Winter Orb, Primeval Titan, and Tooth and Nail.
It would send shock waves through standard. Unless Tectonic edge was in the format, else wise you could never tap out past turn 5 for fear of getting immediately blown out.
I think standard is what would make this card a definite no go.
Legacy/Extended its fine. There are sicker things that can be done.
Kitten.
If you're leveling it up every turn:
Turn 1: Drop this. You have one generic. Level 0.
Turn 2: Drop another land, tap it, bounce the land. Two mana. Level 1.
Turn 3: Drop another land, tap it, bounce the land. Two mana. Level 2.
Turn 4: Drop another land, tap it, bounce the land. Two mana. Level 3.
Turn 5: Drop another land, tap it, bounce the land. Two mana. Level 4.
Turn 6: Drop another land, tap it, bounce the land. Six mana. Level 5.
Why does everyone scream this card is broken? Yes, it's great against an Armageddon and what not, but what does that do? I have a hand full of land. Oh boy. Now I have to start the same slow process all over again. Also remember, that every land you bounce, is a possible land you draw, and that starts filling up your hand.
IMO, not bannable, but a great card for things like Sunburst.
All this, assuming I'm not mistaken. A little buzzed, though.
A few people seem to forget you can only level up as a sorcery, so it cannot, in fact, save itself.
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:symw::symg: Trostani Enchantress (updated 6/5)
:symg::symr::symu: Unexpected Results.dec
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This would merely be a really cool card, nothing more. Even in EDH, this would be just one more crazy thing in a land of crazy things.
Rules Advisor as of 4/23/10
Regarding Stoneforge Mystic
No way in any format is this card broken.
Even in table top casual.
If someone is playing fork, one can (hopefully, lol) assume someone else is playing an Erase or something similar.
Hopefully.
::has nightmarish fork flashback::
Putting the sexy in Science Fiction!
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This is not how you play this card at all.
You play it as your 6th land, tap all your lands for mana bounce them, for a sweet 4 mana boost which puts you at 10 mana. Then you use that 10 mana to cast Cataclysm, or Time Stretch, or Tooth and Nail. In EDH that is a problem because you this could be happening on turn 4 or so.
In standard it's a different game, because you can hold back the land till someone is tapped out, the play it and blow them out. Almost all control mirrors would resolve around this play.
Trust me, it's good, too good. Wizards would never EVER print this card.
Who said that was the point of the card? Say all you want about the powerlevel, no one ever said we didn't want this to be a top teir land, or that its use was only for fixing. I'm sure the "Sprit" of Deceiver Exarch isn't to make infinite combos of itself, but it was no doubt considered during its conception, as was the ritual effect with this card. Just because it's not being used for its "intended" purpose doesn't make it a failed design.
This has made a lot of people very angry and been widely regarded as a bad move."
Comic Book Set
Archester: Frontier of Steam (A steampunk set!)
A Good Place to Start Designing
Currently playing:
UW Modern Tron WU
UR Modern Storm RU
UW [CARD]Rasputin Dreamweaver
[/CARD] UW
I dont like this card.
About the Powerfull-Broken, i dont think so. It has a lot of synergy with lands with a ETB effect and a 4 set of these could take 2 lands from light mana decks, it fits in any deck anyway and serve as a color fixer also.
Sig by Heroes of the Plane Studios (Nakamura , DarkNightCavalier, XenoNinja)
This is the ultimate combo to win the game on turn 3
Turn 2.-vault of whispers,cephalid broker
Turn 3.-swamp,plagiarize
Like, turn 2 Erayo active, turn 4 WIN in a four-player match, Azusa accel/land ramp into Avenger and every infinite win con under the sun.
HOWEVER.
A card like this is not as broken as one thinks.
You can't forget what happens when you play a card like that.
I do agree on the fact that this card should be legendary. I would have loved to see this in Rise when it hit the scene. Landfall every turn is nuts, IF you have the landfall card out. Sunburst would be pretty ridiculous. If it were to go into print, you'd have to ask the 'once a turn' or the 'untapped' thing.
Hmm... what else?
The bouncing itself thing is sorcery-speed along with the one-sided land wipe stuff. My playgroup would stop that kind of crap so fast, it'd make your head spin. Not to mention one said deck is prepared for EVERYTHING (Erayo). It runs Trickbind and such.
All in all, as a land, this card is powerful stuff. I'd run it in Reaper King. I could see it in the Commander decks that Wizards is coming out with. It would be cool.