Just noticed that Apoquallyp has a mechanic called Foreshadow in his Storm of Time Set, it's basically the same as your initial version of Fated, just with a very good way to mark the card as foreshadowed. Maybe if you ask nicely you can use it here too?
The issue wasn't players knowing whether it was Fated, the issue was the rules not allowing a card to track the state of being Fated across zone changes. It's something I was aware may be an issue and it was: it doesn't work, at least not elegantly. The current version has no rules issues, so it's a little better (even though I prefer the other version slightly by concept for the set).
The issue wasn't players knowing whether it was Fated
Yes it was, others and I have mentioned that giving a card a permanent state witout marking it is bad design, that clearly was an issue and is, in my opinion, the worst flaw in the original design.
"Hey, I play this now, it comes into play fated cause I fated it 6 rounds ago, remember?"...."No, I really don't"
the issue was the rules not allowing a card to track the state of being Fated across zone changes.
Well, the rule wizards sure can help you with that, probably. It needs additional comprehensive rules, something like : A card becomes fated if you paid its Fate cost and if it was revealed in the players hand before it was played/cast.
New mechanics pretty much always need new comprehensive rules anyway.
I wasn't saying that the tracking wasn't a concern, I was saying it wasn't the issue. The rules issue has to do with objects. A physical card in a game can take on different object types at different times. As you can see with Cloudshift and the like, cards don't remember things from when they were a different object type. An exiled card won't remember being a creature on the battlefield, an instant in the graveyard won't remember being on the stack, a creature on the battlefield won't remember being a card in your hand, etc. It's a rule that prevents weird interactions from occurring using zone changes and the game is better off for it. It's not something viable to be changed.
It's not really about object type since "fated" is not an object type at all. As long as the comprehensive rules specify what fated means exactly it should not be a problem. It's just a state a card gets after the fate costs were paid, it was revealed permanently in your hand and after it gets cast. So as long as you don't play it, a card is not fated, even if you have it revealed in your hand. No change of states via multiple zones takes place, no problem there.
Card checking how they were cast are not that atypical, so that should not be a problem either. However I have no idea how an ability like that affects the meta, if that is a concern of yours.
The problem is that cards can't track the state or the use of the ability. It would work as long as the effect was only relevant to the card in your hand, but then it is just the current version basically. The only way in which your suggestion is better is also where the rules issues lie: in tracking the state. The concern is due to the way the rules handle complex situations involving zone changes, by disallowing cards to remember across zone changes. It is possible to change these rules but doing so would cause far greater issues than it would solve.
I am happy with the current version, so thorny rules are more than enough reason to not change. Not to say I will not consider any alternatives, but that this one is problematic.
As I told you already, there is no tracking a state cause the state "fated" doesn't happen until the card is cast/is on the battlefield. Cards are not disallowed to remember across zones, they just enter the battlefield in their original version. If a mechanic states to remember a zone change, like cards that require you to cast them from your hand/graveyard to gain an ability or effect, those cards will "remember" where they were/came from cause that is required of them.
Abilities like Persist, Dash etc would not work if a card could not remember where it came from. No rule change is needed as long as "fated" only happens at casting/entering the battlefield while remembering costs and the marking.
Moving toward first major playtest (all commons, rather than conceptual tests)
Cardlist is currently inaccurate and will be going through changes that I have decided on testing with. Most importantly, Prowess is being removed in favour of a new evergreen mechanic called Reshape. It's not fixed at this point, but I want to see how it and other versions of it play and this is an opportunity. See my evergreen mechanics thread linked above for more info.
Expect a series of playtesting updates after I start in a few days.
About your Design Goal, I don't get it completely. Up until "as opposed to Theros", I thought it sounded alot like Theros. But then you wrote it's more ominous Huh? Ominous how? What's ominous about it?
The general thematic of the world is of an ominous and imposing destiny that drives much of the world's events. Also, there is an ongoing war between the Gods and the Jotnar, where the Gods believe in civilisation and sophistication and the Jotnar are literally incarnations of the wild and primal elemental forces of the realms. The design is supposed to reflect this, which will be an important part of the development of the set. The flavour text will help here when I put some, plus it's something I will be working to accomplish. The second set will also play this up further.
The general thematic of the world is of an ominous and imposing destiny that drives much of the world's events. Also, there is an ongoing war between the Gods and the Jotnar, where the Gods believe in civilisation and sophistication and the Jotnar are literally incarnations of the wild and primal elemental forces of the realms. The design is supposed to reflect this, which will be an important part of the development of the set. The flavour text will help here when I put some, plus it's something I will be working to accomplish. The second set will also play this up further.
Hmm, yeah, that's the the thema. But how does that affect playstyle? What's the design goal playstyle wise?
To make gameplay feel somewhat ominous, to have players feel like things are building up to something and they don't know what's going to happen when it comes. That sort of feel generally. Epicness is also something I'd like, the feeling of powerful and important things happening.
Really, this is a playtest thing. It's difficult to get a sense of the feel of a set without playing it, so it something I have been, and will continue, trying to develop. It's important in design, especially one like this, to create a feeling as well as just mechanical theme.
Playtesting delays due to personal workload (IRL). Expect results this week or next week.
For reference, these are the versions of Reshape, a potential new evergreen mechanic, that I will be testing:
Reshape (Whenever this creature attacks or blocks, you may have it get +1/-1 or -1/+1 until end of turn.)
Reshape (Whenever this creature attacks or blocks, its get +1/-1 or -1/+1 until end of turn.)
Reshape N (Whenever this creature attacks or blocks, you may have it get +1/-1 until end of turn.)
Playtesting happening this weekend, updates soon after. In the meantime, I am reviewing mechanics for the set. See mechanics thread here for more info.
@Jetvans.
A lot of this is development, but yes, the cardlist is far from complete. Right now, I am working on finalising the mechanics for design testing and building the themes properly. A lot of good feedback nevertheless and I will be addressing some of it immediately (well, later today).
Usual tweaks, cards added, more archetypes added to OP.
RUNIN: Norse mythology set (awaiting further playtesting)
FATE of ALARA: Multicolour factions (currently on hiatus)
Contibutor to the Pyrulea community set
I'm here to tell you that all your set mechanics are bad
#Defundthepolice
Archetypes completed, cards added.
RUNIN: Norse mythology set (awaiting further playtesting)
FATE of ALARA: Multicolour factions (currently on hiatus)
Contibutor to the Pyrulea community set
I'm here to tell you that all your set mechanics are bad
#Defundthepolice
RUNIN: Norse mythology set (awaiting further playtesting)
FATE of ALARA: Multicolour factions (currently on hiatus)
Contibutor to the Pyrulea community set
I'm here to tell you that all your set mechanics are bad
#Defundthepolice
Yes it was, others and I have mentioned that giving a card a permanent state witout marking it is bad design, that clearly was an issue and is, in my opinion, the worst flaw in the original design.
"Hey, I play this now, it comes into play fated cause I fated it 6 rounds ago, remember?"...."No, I really don't"
Well, the rule wizards sure can help you with that, probably. It needs additional comprehensive rules, something like : A card becomes fated if you paid its Fate cost and if it was revealed in the players hand before it was played/cast.
New mechanics pretty much always need new comprehensive rules anyway.
RUNIN: Norse mythology set (awaiting further playtesting)
FATE of ALARA: Multicolour factions (currently on hiatus)
Contibutor to the Pyrulea community set
I'm here to tell you that all your set mechanics are bad
#Defundthepolice
Card checking how they were cast are not that atypical, so that should not be a problem either. However I have no idea how an ability like that affects the meta, if that is a concern of yours.
I am happy with the current version, so thorny rules are more than enough reason to not change. Not to say I will not consider any alternatives, but that this one is problematic.
RUNIN: Norse mythology set (awaiting further playtesting)
FATE of ALARA: Multicolour factions (currently on hiatus)
Contibutor to the Pyrulea community set
I'm here to tell you that all your set mechanics are bad
#Defundthepolice
Abilities like Persist, Dash etc would not work if a card could not remember where it came from. No rule change is needed as long as "fated" only happens at casting/entering the battlefield while remembering costs and the marking.
RUNIN: Norse mythology set (awaiting further playtesting)
FATE of ALARA: Multicolour factions (currently on hiatus)
Contibutor to the Pyrulea community set
I'm here to tell you that all your set mechanics are bad
#Defundthepolice
Improved design goal (focus + clarity), formatting updates
Two relevant threads on the main CCC forums:
http://www.mtgsalvation.com/forums/creativity/custom-card-creation/602664-runin-mechanics-discussion-heading-toward
http://www.mtgsalvation.com/forums/creativity/custom-card-creation/601623-evergreen-mechanics-exploration-and-discussion
Feedback is appreciated, Thanks.
RUNIN: Norse mythology set (awaiting further playtesting)
FATE of ALARA: Multicolour factions (currently on hiatus)
Contibutor to the Pyrulea community set
I'm here to tell you that all your set mechanics are bad
#Defundthepolice
Moving toward first major playtest (all commons, rather than conceptual tests)
Cardlist is currently inaccurate and will be going through changes that I have decided on testing with. Most importantly, Prowess is being removed in favour of a new evergreen mechanic called Reshape. It's not fixed at this point, but I want to see how it and other versions of it play and this is an opportunity. See my evergreen mechanics thread linked above for more info.
Expect a series of playtesting updates after I start in a few days.
Thanks to everyone for all the support so far.
RUNIN: Norse mythology set (awaiting further playtesting)
FATE of ALARA: Multicolour factions (currently on hiatus)
Contibutor to the Pyrulea community set
I'm here to tell you that all your set mechanics are bad
#Defundthepolice
RUNIN: Norse mythology set (awaiting further playtesting)
FATE of ALARA: Multicolour factions (currently on hiatus)
Contibutor to the Pyrulea community set
I'm here to tell you that all your set mechanics are bad
#Defundthepolice
First pass commons complete (later than it probably should have).
Any comments? Revisions would be useful to cut out unnecessary playtesting time.
RUNIN: Norse mythology set (awaiting further playtesting)
FATE of ALARA: Multicolour factions (currently on hiatus)
Contibutor to the Pyrulea community set
I'm here to tell you that all your set mechanics are bad
#Defundthepolice
RUNIN: Norse mythology set (awaiting further playtesting)
FATE of ALARA: Multicolour factions (currently on hiatus)
Contibutor to the Pyrulea community set
I'm here to tell you that all your set mechanics are bad
#Defundthepolice
Cards tweaked
Ready for first major playtest (physical)! Starting soon! Updates to follow.
RUNIN: Norse mythology set (awaiting further playtesting)
FATE of ALARA: Multicolour factions (currently on hiatus)
Contibutor to the Pyrulea community set
I'm here to tell you that all your set mechanics are bad
#Defundthepolice
Hmm, yeah, that's the the thema. But how does that affect playstyle? What's the design goal playstyle wise?
Really, this is a playtest thing. It's difficult to get a sense of the feel of a set without playing it, so it something I have been, and will continue, trying to develop. It's important in design, especially one like this, to create a feeling as well as just mechanical theme.
RUNIN: Norse mythology set (awaiting further playtesting)
FATE of ALARA: Multicolour factions (currently on hiatus)
Contibutor to the Pyrulea community set
I'm here to tell you that all your set mechanics are bad
#Defundthepolice
Playtesting delays due to personal workload (IRL). Expect results this week or next week.
For reference, these are the versions of Reshape, a potential new evergreen mechanic, that I will be testing:
Reshape (Whenever this creature attacks or blocks, you may have it get +1/-1 or -1/+1 until end of turn.)
Reshape (Whenever this creature attacks or blocks, its get +1/-1 or -1/+1 until end of turn.)
Reshape N (Whenever this creature attacks or blocks, you may have it get +1/-1 until end of turn.)
Thanks again to everyone for the support so far!
RUNIN: Norse mythology set (awaiting further playtesting)
FATE of ALARA: Multicolour factions (currently on hiatus)
Contibutor to the Pyrulea community set
I'm here to tell you that all your set mechanics are bad
#Defundthepolice
Playtesting happening this weekend, updates soon after. In the meantime, I am reviewing mechanics for the set. See mechanics thread here for more info.
RUNIN: Norse mythology set (awaiting further playtesting)
FATE of ALARA: Multicolour factions (currently on hiatus)
Contibutor to the Pyrulea community set
I'm here to tell you that all your set mechanics are bad
#Defundthepolice
RUNIN: Norse mythology set (awaiting further playtesting)
FATE of ALARA: Multicolour factions (currently on hiatus)
Contibutor to the Pyrulea community set
I'm here to tell you that all your set mechanics are bad
#Defundthepolice
A lot of this is development, but yes, the cardlist is far from complete. Right now, I am working on finalising the mechanics for design testing and building the themes properly. A lot of good feedback nevertheless and I will be addressing some of it immediately (well, later today).
RUNIN: Norse mythology set (awaiting further playtesting)
FATE of ALARA: Multicolour factions (currently on hiatus)
Contibutor to the Pyrulea community set
I'm here to tell you that all your set mechanics are bad
#Defundthepolice
RUNIN: Norse mythology set (awaiting further playtesting)
FATE of ALARA: Multicolour factions (currently on hiatus)
Contibutor to the Pyrulea community set
I'm here to tell you that all your set mechanics are bad
#Defundthepolice