I find that the stare down is immensely more effective at throwing off your opponent than shuffling your hand as if you have a nervous disorder. Try it out against someone who is being obnoxious or over-competitive at a FNM. Lean back in your chair with confidence and calmly go about your turn, during their turn set your hand down and just stare. They literally freak out and start shuffling their hand faster, beating them at their own game is just so much better. I think the stare down is an art that has been lost to Magic these days. Watch the greats of old play, you'll see them just calmly put their elbows on the table and watch their opponent.
I do the card-flicking thing out of habit mostly, but it does serve a purpose: to disguise which card I drew that turn. If you just draw, don't shuffle the hand, and slam a land into play, it's often clear whether or not you topdecked that land. If it bothers you I'd suggest getting over it, since it's such a pervasive phenomenon that it will be more trouble than it's worth to try and get your opponents to stop.
If it's a causal game I'll ask you to stop. If you don't not much to be done about it. If we're at a tournament and I ask you to stop because of it being annoying and you refuse to, I'll call a judge over and ask him/her to ask you to stop. If it's a constant thing of flicking your cards audibly then it's distracting, if it's distracting me from playing I'm well within my rights to request for you to stop, and to request for a judge to make the same request. I'm not saying anything against reorganizing the cards in your hand, it can be done silently with less effort than flicking them does.
And I'm not being as hardcore about as I can hear the sound of your cards' sleeves brushing against one another. Or you playing the card and it accidentally flicking against another in your hand. I'm talking about the loudly pronounced flicking that you actually have to be trying to do for it to happen. The kind where it serves no practical purpose to be that flashy about it except to create a distracting noise. Rearranging the cards in your hand is a good thing, and I won't say anything about it if you just drew and it wasn't dead silent, but if you're entering Main Phase 1 and I've heard your cards flicking loudly 20 times since you started your turn I'm a little bit less open to the "just sound strategy" and a little bit more open to the "he's just trying to be annoying" side of things.
Also I tap to the right personally. Though I've never really noticed a habit of tapping one way or the other amongst players. Might actually start paying attention to the direction people tap their cards in, and their playstyles to see if there's a correlation, or to their "I started playing" time frame.
I'll flick my cards if I want to. I have every right to, and you are not the Bobby Fischer of Magic who gets to decide the manner of how people play against you. If flicking cards is enough to completely throw you off your game, perhaps you should either get use to it or play another game.
But onto "annoying things magic players do". The biggest one is either texting or talking your phone during a game.
the "card-flicking" thing is usually out of habit for the people I know who do it. Also, in my opinion, I play much better when Im shuffling my cards in my hand. Helps me concentrate, so if someone asks me to stop and proceeds to get a judge I would argue that it may annoy you but I will play worse thus I wont stop. Its also complete habit by now to keep doing it.
The "card-flicking" that gets on my nerves is the people who literally make a loud audible noise everytime they cycle through their hand. Thats the worst. Especially when they repeat this process at an insanely annoying pace.
People who will sit in an LGS all day stroking their ego by telling all the young kids how to play and then proceed to rip the better players because they play too competitively. These kids tend to not compete in any tournament rather then just sit there.
I'll flick my cards if I want to. I have every right to, and you are not the Bobby Fischer of Magic who gets to decide the manner of how people play against you. If flicking cards is enough to completely throw you off your game, perhaps you should either get use to it or play another game.
And a reaction like that can be classified as unsportsmanly conduct. Responding to being asked nicely to not flick your cards with outright hostility is pretty blatantly a violation.
I've noticed the more competitive in nature a player is the less willing they are to respond well to polite requests. Hence a major reason I dislike competitive play. I will play competitively from time to time, though I prefer casual play.
And no it doesn't completely throw me off my game, it's just annoying, and if you're being annoying for the sake of being annoying then you are showing a complete lack of respect for your opponent. Now, I can understand if someone demands that you stop, that's different and meeting hostility with hostility is expected. But reacting hostilely because I say "Hey could you not flick your cards like that?" is another matter entirely.
Again I'm not saying anything against reorganizing your hand or even shuffling your hand. Both have very good reasons for being done. Actively trying to annoy your opponent however has no place in this game. It falls into the same category as plopping down an MP3 player, turning the volume up, and playing music during a game. If you have earbuds or headphones it isn't providing anything to interrupt the game, if you don't and it's just playing it's causing a distraction, maybe not to you, but it is to your opponent. Which is again showing a lack of respect for your opponent.
The "card-flicking" that gets on my nerves is the people who literally make a loud audible noise everytime they cycle through their hand. Thats the worst. Especially when they repeat this process at an insanely annoying pace.
This is exactly what I'm referring to in fact.
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Through me the way to the suffering city; Through me the everlasting pain; Through me the way that runs among the Lost. Justice urged on my exalted Creator: Divine Power made me, The Supreme Wisdom and the Primal Love. Nothing was made before me but eternal things And I endure eternally. Abandon all hope - You Who Enter Here.
]2. Are you done? Is it my go? Casting anything? Nothing? My turn? My go? My turn? Can you play faster, please? No. **** you. I'll take my damn time.
I admit I do that a bit, mostly when my opponent's second main phase appears to be done and it seems like they're just stalling, and/or I already know what I'm going to do either in response or on my next turn. Mostly it's to make sure that my opponent (re: my brother) doesn't have some unknown trick he has to trump what i'm about to do to him.
More importantly, this does in my casual games is eliminate the "takebacks" which is one thing that SERIOUSLY annoys me. Player A makes his play, and player B makes his response, or acts like he's about to make a response, so Player A wants to take his last move back and do something else instead. I hate that with a passion. You made your play without thinking it through. Sucks to be you. Live with it. or die with it, If I've got a response. You gets no Mulligans (unless, of course, you Mulligan. you know what I mean).
Asking them if they're done ensures there will be none of that "on second thought..." tomfoolery. If it's annoying, then so be it.
another thing I and my playgroup do that might have outsiders scratching their heads: whenever we finish a turn, we say "knock" instead of just saying we're ending our turn. Don't ask me where or how that started. but for the longest I assumed everybody did it, so at my first tournament, I ended my turn by saying "knock" and my opponent looked at me like I was crazy...right before asking me if I was ready to end my turn. Last time I ever did THAT.
Because conservative bias is a far, far worse thing. Liberal bias doesn't, statistically speaking, make people stupid. Conservative bias (or at least Fox's version of it) does.
So if you politely ask, may I politely decline to oblige? Not being sarcastic, just want to know if you'd find that acceptable.
If you're polite about it then yeah I can't really say anything about it other than express why I feel it's annoying and suggest you not do it as loudly at least.
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I can't remember anyone flicking their cards in any games I've played, actually. I do get kind of annoyed when someone is listening to music though, because it feels like they aren't paying attention to the game as well.
I totally do the leg thing though. Not even just for Magic, I do it a lot of the time unconsciously when I'm sitting anywhere.
So you want me to stop shuffling my hand and allow you to know if the two cards I put back after I brainstormed were the ones I drew or the ones in my hand already?
I'm sorry that it annoys you but I'm not about to give away information like that
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So you want me to stop shuffling my hand and allow you to know if the two cards I put back after I brainstormed were the ones I drew or the ones in my hand already?
I'm sorry that it annoys you but I'm not about to give away information like that
I'm not saying don't shuffle your hand. I'm not saying don't rearranging the cards in your hand. I'm saying don't audibly flick the cards in your hand over and over in an annoying fashion. There is a difference between those two acts. I think that's where most of this debate is coming from the assumption that they're the same.
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I'm not saying don't shuffle your hand. I'm not saying don't rearranging the cards in your hand. I'm saying don't audibly flick the cards in your hand over and over in an annoying fashion. There is a difference between those two acts. I think that's where most of this debate is coming from the assumption that they're the same.
yes. This. It's the constant never ending card flicking that's annoying. Don't be so anxious.
I shuffle my hand when I'm thinking or after a brainstorm usually so as to not tell the opponent what 2 cards I'm putting back. Also do it so as to not give away whether a card of mine was topdecked that turn or already in my hand or what have you. I don't do it to annoy people at all in fact it never crossed my mind that it might be annoying to people.
When lots of money is on the line people have a right to be anxious. I'll admit sometimes I'm nervous at the start of a round or during it, especially if it's the top 8 or something important i.e. I have to win the round to get to the top 8.
But annoying habits of players I dislike are putting their lands closer to you than their real cards i.e. enchantments, creatures, artifacts, etc. etc. I don't care if you have an island or taiga or what have you; I only care about that when I'm wastelanding you.
People listening to music or using their phone during a game is quite annoying. The only good use of a phone during gameplay is if it's being used for life totals, and nothing else. I just use spindown dice personally.
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It makes your Enchantments and artifacts look like creatures and stuff get mixed up and I can't easily glance at the board and know what they have. I don't care how you do it, but please have a space for noncreatures. I don't care if its
Land
Creatures
Noncreatures
or
Creatures
Land
Noncreatures
or even
Noncreatures
Creatures
Land
but please don't mix them
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It makes your Enchantments and artifacts look like creatures and stuff get mixed up and I can't easily glance at the board and know what they have. I don't care how you do it, but please have a space for noncreatures. I don't care if its
Land
Creatures
Noncreatures
or
Creatures
Land
Noncreatures
or even
Noncreatures
Creatures
Land
but please don't mix them
Personally I tend to lay things out like;
Creatures Planesawlkers Artifacts Enchantments
Lands Mana Artifacts Mana Enchantments
With some space between each section.
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Through me the way to the suffering city; Through me the everlasting pain; Through me the way that runs among the Lost. Justice urged on my exalted Creator: Divine Power made me, The Supreme Wisdom and the Primal Love. Nothing was made before me but eternal things And I endure eternally. Abandon all hope - You Who Enter Here.
Speaking as a deaf girl, I do wonder what being deaf has to with reading comprehension....
Anyway, I don't shuffle/flick constantly, but I do a little shuffle when I draw a card so its not obvious what card(s) I am playing. I don't want to give away if I am top decking.
nothing. I would refer you to the concept that perhaps you spend more time reading than someone who i can verbally explain a card interaction to. And then ask yourself how many times youve read the same card 10 times in a 8 turn game?
@K405 I mix them all the time. If I play a Birds of Paradise, I put it down with my lands. Same goes for any permanent I have that can make mana. Likewise, if I have a Mishra's Factory or any other type of manland, I'll alternate between putting them with my creatures and putting them with my lands. I don't obscure anything or cover any card (other than basic lands, which I'll stagger-stack on top of each other, you can still clearly see how many I have in play/are tapped or untapped). If you swing into an "empty board" when I have a birds to block it sitting next to my forests, that's your problem for not noticing the gamestate. And if its that easy to get you to misplay, I'm going to keep doing it every time. Likewise, if you're playing counterspells like Mana Leak, my birds and elves all sit up with my creatures, and I'll laugh when your Daze does nothing to me.
And a reaction like that can be classified as unsportsmanly conduct. Responding to being asked nicely to not flick your cards with outright hostility is pretty blatantly a violation.
I've noticed the more competitive in nature a player is the less willing they are to respond well to polite requests. Hence a major reason I dislike competitive play. I will play competitively from time to time, though I prefer casual play.
And no it doesn't completely throw me off my game, it's just annoying, and if you're being annoying for the sake of being annoying then you are showing a complete lack of respect for your opponent. Now, I can understand if someone demands that you stop, that's different and meeting hostility with hostility is expected. But reacting hostilely because I say "Hey could you not flick your cards like that?" is another matter entirely.
Again I'm not saying anything against reorganizing your hand or even shuffling your hand. Both have very good reasons for being done. Actively trying to annoy your opponent however has no place in this game. It falls into the same category as plopping down an MP3 player, turning the volume up, and playing music during a game. If you have earbuds or headphones it isn't providing anything to interrupt the game, if you don't and it's just playing it's causing a distraction, maybe not to you, but it is to your opponent. Which is again showing a lack of respect for your opponent.
This is exactly what I'm referring to in fact.
Its the one sad thing about this game. The lack of maturity of so many of the players. That is usually the result of the average age of the players. Sadly enough, there are plenty of older players I've run into that are pretty ridiculous as well.
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Modern:
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All these habits don't seem that ridiculous to me. Using information from or doing things outside of the game has been a part of any competitive sport/game/anything most likely since before anyone on these forums was born. I understand that you may not go out of your way to be 110% competitive, and that's fine. But thinking that the players who want every sliver of advantage possible, even if it's only contributes 1% to their win ratio, are unsportsmanslike just serves to dilute the competitiveness of the game.
You may not agree, but I've seen it with every competitive game I've ever played and it's not going to go away.
On a side note, I'm tired of people (a person) coming up to me and my mates at our LGS and pointing out cards that they think are great draft cards (which are either just plain bad or very, very situationally good), then proceeding to come 8th in a pod of 10 and argue that drafting is complete luck and whoever pulls the best rares wins. I'll happily discuss card decisions with people and to have to them ask about cards, but I can't be bothered if you're going to bad mouth the skill of everyone at the store and show complete ignorance of the format like that.
On a side note, I'm tired of people (a person) coming up to me and my mates at our LGS and pointing out cards that they think are great draft cards (which are either just plain bad or very, very situationally good), then proceeding to come 8th in a pod of 10 and argue that drafting is complete luck and whoever pulls the best rares wins. I'll happily discuss card decisions with people and to have to them ask about cards, but I can't be bothered if you're going to bad mouth the skill of everyone at the store and show complete ignorance of the format like that.
My tactic for winning in drafts is to make an agro flying deck... I always rank in the top 3 with that (of course I have only been to 6 drafts, but still)
====================
on topic: This has probably been said before... But it REALLY irritates me to go up against someone and have them say these words:
"...it's a may ability... I don't have to do it unless you tell me to"
I mean, I understand... But I find it the same as the logic "If you forget to untap your cards, you don't get to untap them" (assuming of course it benefits the person saying it... if they want you to untap, they will remind you)
I remind my opponents about the cards they have out... and then to hear someone say, "you didn't tell me to" (which by the way, I have said "mill 1" and they didn't do it because I didn't say "put a card from the top of your deck into the graveyard because of jace's erasure") it just irritates me.
Regarding card shuffling/flicking: I am one of the players who do this constantly. I never do it to annoy others; rather, it's a combination of nervous energy--working with my hands to keep my brain going ok--and preventing the opponent from knowing what I have/what I drew.
Habits I find annoying:
The Takeback: "Oh, wait, can I take that back?" No, you can't. Learn to make smart decisions.
The Land-stack: Putting all your lands in one pile so I can't see how many you have without asking is a pain in the ass and usually makes it look like you're deliberately trying to conceal information from me.
The 'I Don't Know What the Second Main Phase or Priority Are': My turn doesn't end after combat, and neither does yours. This is why I'm annoyed when you go to untap lands after I'm done attacking or you wonder why I'm sitting there, staring at you and doing nothing, after you're done attacking. I'll give you a hand motion and verbal "Go ahead" when I'm done. Furthermore, I ask "Ok?" after every spell/ability I cast for a reason, and dislike opponents who don't do the same.
Related: The 'I Don't Know What the Steps of Combat Are': I will get annoyed when players go straight from main phase to turning guys sideways despite that Vedalken Anatomist/Blinding Souleater/Gideon's Lawkeeper/Combat trick/removal/manland I have. People trampling all over the steps and phases just makes a mess for everyone involved.
My tactic for winning in drafts is to make an agro flying deck... I always rank in the top 3 with that (of course I have only been to 6 drafts, but still)
====================
on topic: This has probably been said before... But it REALLY irritates me to go up against someone and have them say these words:
"...it's a may ability... I don't have to do it unless you tell me to"
I mean, I understand... But I find it the same as the logic "If you forget to untap your cards, you don't get to untap them" (assuming of course it benefits the person saying it... if they want you to untap, they will remind you)
I remind my opponents about the cards they have out... and then to hear someone say, "you didn't tell me to" (which by the way, I have said "mill 1" and they didn't do it because I didn't say "put a card from the top of your deck into the graveyard because of jace's erasure") it just irritates me.
Except, if they are playing in a tournament, they are completely correct. If the players continue to advance the game state without resolving the trigger, this is technically a Game Play Error - Missed Trigger. Now, you could call a judge for it (and should if it isn't an optional trigger), but since you are discussing optional triggers, this remedy, from the Magic Infraction Procedure Guide, is often simply performed by players as it results in no penalty anyway.
Quote from "Magic Infraction Procedure Guide: Game Play Error - Missed Trigger" »
Additional Remedy
If the trigger instruction is optional (“may”, or “up to X” where zero is a valid choice) and specifies no consequence for not doing it, assume that the player has chosen not to perform the instruction and issue no penalty.
Note that this is entirely different than untapping your permanents, which is a required part of the untap step, and is not optional in any way unless a card effect overrules.
If you play with optional triggers, it is your responsibility to remember them if you would like to use them. You can't expect your opponent to help you win the game.
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to be fair i flick the cards in my hand to see them, its easier for me to see the cards one at a time so i flick them one at a time, if you are annoyed with how i play, i'll look for a reason to be annoyed with how you play and even it out. it seriously petty to be upset about what a player does in a game as long as he isnt be being rude.
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WR Gisela, Blade of Goldnight (HOLD/100) WR
WB Teysa, Orzhov Scion (HOLD/100) WB
I'll flick my cards if I want to. I have every right to, and you are not the Bobby Fischer of Magic who gets to decide the manner of how people play against you. If flicking cards is enough to completely throw you off your game, perhaps you should either get use to it or play another game.
But onto "annoying things magic players do". The biggest one is either texting or talking your phone during a game.
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The "card-flicking" that gets on my nerves is the people who literally make a loud audible noise everytime they cycle through their hand. Thats the worst. Especially when they repeat this process at an insanely annoying pace.
People who will sit in an LGS all day stroking their ego by telling all the young kids how to play and then proceed to rip the better players because they play too competitively. These kids tend to not compete in any tournament rather then just sit there.
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And a reaction like that can be classified as unsportsmanly conduct. Responding to being asked nicely to not flick your cards with outright hostility is pretty blatantly a violation.
I've noticed the more competitive in nature a player is the less willing they are to respond well to polite requests. Hence a major reason I dislike competitive play. I will play competitively from time to time, though I prefer casual play.
And no it doesn't completely throw me off my game, it's just annoying, and if you're being annoying for the sake of being annoying then you are showing a complete lack of respect for your opponent. Now, I can understand if someone demands that you stop, that's different and meeting hostility with hostility is expected. But reacting hostilely because I say "Hey could you not flick your cards like that?" is another matter entirely.
Again I'm not saying anything against reorganizing your hand or even shuffling your hand. Both have very good reasons for being done. Actively trying to annoy your opponent however has no place in this game. It falls into the same category as plopping down an MP3 player, turning the volume up, and playing music during a game. If you have earbuds or headphones it isn't providing anything to interrupt the game, if you don't and it's just playing it's causing a distraction, maybe not to you, but it is to your opponent. Which is again showing a lack of respect for your opponent.
This is exactly what I'm referring to in fact.
I admit I do that a bit, mostly when my opponent's second main phase appears to be done and it seems like they're just stalling, and/or I already know what I'm going to do either in response or on my next turn. Mostly it's to make sure that my opponent (re: my brother) doesn't have some unknown trick he has to trump what i'm about to do to him.
More importantly, this does in my casual games is eliminate the "takebacks" which is one thing that SERIOUSLY annoys me. Player A makes his play, and player B makes his response, or acts like he's about to make a response, so Player A wants to take his last move back and do something else instead. I hate that with a passion. You made your play without thinking it through. Sucks to be you. Live with it. or die with it, If I've got a response. You gets no Mulligans (unless, of course, you Mulligan. you know what I mean).
Asking them if they're done ensures there will be none of that "on second thought..." tomfoolery. If it's annoying, then so be it.
another thing I and my playgroup do that might have outsiders scratching their heads: whenever we finish a turn, we say "knock" instead of just saying we're ending our turn. Don't ask me where or how that started. but for the longest I assumed everybody did it, so at my first tournament, I ended my turn by saying "knock" and my opponent looked at me like I was crazy...right before asking me if I was ready to end my turn. Last time I ever did THAT.
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If you're polite about it then yeah I can't really say anything about it other than express why I feel it's annoying and suggest you not do it as loudly at least.
I totally do the leg thing though. Not even just for Magic, I do it a lot of the time unconsciously when I'm sitting anywhere.
If you're polite I see no real problem. Especially if you've got a reason for it, or if it's unconscious.
I'm sorry that it annoys you but I'm not about to give away information like that
BEtched Champion/InfectB
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RRDWR
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EDH
GEzuri, Elf OverrunG
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WGElvesWG
Legacy
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UBGFariesUBG
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I'm not saying don't shuffle your hand. I'm not saying don't rearranging the cards in your hand. I'm saying don't audibly flick the cards in your hand over and over in an annoying fashion. There is a difference between those two acts. I think that's where most of this debate is coming from the assumption that they're the same.
yes. This. It's the constant never ending card flicking that's annoying. Don't be so anxious.
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1) People who set some cards aside from their hand so you constantly have to ask how many cards do you have?
2) People who play 2+ cards at the exact same time when they know it's wrong.
3) People that you beat and they say " Yup 2 more draws and it would have been a totally different game."
On another note: I understand shuffling your hand but you don't have to act like you're on crack?
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When lots of money is on the line people have a right to be anxious. I'll admit sometimes I'm nervous at the start of a round or during it, especially if it's the top 8 or something important i.e. I have to win the round to get to the top 8.
But annoying habits of players I dislike are putting their lands closer to you than their real cards i.e. enchantments, creatures, artifacts, etc. etc. I don't care if you have an island or taiga or what have you; I only care about that when I'm wastelanding you.
People listening to music or using their phone during a game is quite annoying. The only good use of a phone during gameplay is if it's being used for life totals, and nothing else. I just use spindown dice personally.
Currently Playing:
Retired
Everything
Land
It makes your Enchantments and artifacts look like creatures and stuff get mixed up and I can't easily glance at the board and know what they have. I don't care how you do it, but please have a space for noncreatures. I don't care if its
Land
Creatures
Noncreatures
or
Creatures
Land
Noncreatures
or even
Noncreatures
Creatures
Land
but please don't mix them
-Yogi Berra
Personally I tend to lay things out like;
Creatures Planesawlkers Artifacts Enchantments
Lands Mana Artifacts Mana Enchantments
With some space between each section.
nothing. I would refer you to the concept that perhaps you spend more time reading than someone who i can verbally explain a card interaction to. And then ask yourself how many times youve read the same card 10 times in a 8 turn game?
Its the one sad thing about this game. The lack of maturity of so many of the players. That is usually the result of the average age of the players. Sadly enough, there are plenty of older players I've run into that are pretty ridiculous as well.
N/A
Modern:
Grishoalbrand / Grixis Death's Shadow / Jeskai Control / UW Control
You may not agree, but I've seen it with every competitive game I've ever played and it's not going to go away.
On a side note, I'm tired of people (a person) coming up to me and my mates at our LGS and pointing out cards that they think are great draft cards (which are either just plain bad or very, very situationally good), then proceeding to come 8th in a pod of 10 and argue that drafting is complete luck and whoever pulls the best rares wins. I'll happily discuss card decisions with people and to have to them ask about cards, but I can't be bothered if you're going to bad mouth the skill of everyone at the store and show complete ignorance of the format like that.
My tactic for winning in drafts is to make an agro flying deck... I always rank in the top 3 with that (of course I have only been to 6 drafts, but still)
====================
on topic: This has probably been said before... But it REALLY irritates me to go up against someone and have them say these words:
"...it's a may ability... I don't have to do it unless you tell me to"
I mean, I understand... But I find it the same as the logic "If you forget to untap your cards, you don't get to untap them" (assuming of course it benefits the person saying it... if they want you to untap, they will remind you)
I remind my opponents about the cards they have out... and then to hear someone say, "you didn't tell me to" (which by the way, I have said "mill 1" and they didn't do it because I didn't say "put a card from the top of your deck into the graveyard because of jace's erasure") it just irritates me.
Habits I find annoying:
The Takeback: "Oh, wait, can I take that back?" No, you can't. Learn to make smart decisions.
The Land-stack: Putting all your lands in one pile so I can't see how many you have without asking is a pain in the ass and usually makes it look like you're deliberately trying to conceal information from me.
The 'I Don't Know What the Second Main Phase or Priority Are': My turn doesn't end after combat, and neither does yours. This is why I'm annoyed when you go to untap lands after I'm done attacking or you wonder why I'm sitting there, staring at you and doing nothing, after you're done attacking. I'll give you a hand motion and verbal "Go ahead" when I'm done. Furthermore, I ask "Ok?" after every spell/ability I cast for a reason, and dislike opponents who don't do the same.
Related: The 'I Don't Know What the Steps of Combat Are': I will get annoyed when players go straight from main phase to turning guys sideways despite that Vedalken Anatomist/Blinding Souleater/Gideon's Lawkeeper/Combat trick/removal/manland I have. People trampling all over the steps and phases just makes a mess for everyone involved.
Except, if they are playing in a tournament, they are completely correct. If the players continue to advance the game state without resolving the trigger, this is technically a Game Play Error - Missed Trigger. Now, you could call a judge for it (and should if it isn't an optional trigger), but since you are discussing optional triggers, this remedy, from the Magic Infraction Procedure Guide, is often simply performed by players as it results in no penalty anyway.
Note that this is entirely different than untapping your permanents, which is a required part of the untap step, and is not optional in any way unless a card effect overrules.
If you play with optional triggers, it is your responsibility to remember them if you would like to use them. You can't expect your opponent to help you win the game.
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