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Quote from CrimeoOh so your plan is for me to run all around the state finding the exact right people and trading them up $1 at a time (good luck doing much more than that with smartphones and TCG/SCG) 163 times, to get my underground sea?
In the meantime I've spent 40 hours of my time, making half minimum wage trading magic cards.
Yeah man, that's a solid plan right there. Thanks for the tip. I don't know how anybody could POSSIBLY be concerned about expensive cards when there are options like this available (nevermind that also, if everybody did this, the price on undergroudn sea would simply rise by orders of magnoitude in response. Let's just ignore that fact)
You shouldn't even expect to make minimum wage on selling cards, it's very hard.
If you have a hard time finding legacy cards
Quote from StroggoiiEither you are a leisure class kid who has his life made and doesn't have any expenses other than MtG, or you're sharking people because you cannot buy 4x Underground Sea, 4x Tundra, 4x Scrubland, etc. On minimum wage.
They aren't supporting us, they are allowing cards to go from $12 to $35 overnight for profit, in fact Starcity themselves caused the drastic increase in fetchland prices by buying all they could in late '12 before drastically increasing their price in Jan '13. That's not supply and demand, that's dancing in the tight rope between market cornering and white collar crime.
Sure that's why most LGS have boxes and boxes of DGM on clearance and people aren't buying packs even at $2.50.
No company will ever admit a marketing mistake unless they receive massive public backlash, specially not when they have already sold those booster boxes to LGS' all around the glove, what do they care if that's permanently lagged stock that will be utterly unsellable once Voice and Blood Baron are out of standard?
Drop it man, it's obvious we're the only ones here not emotionally or economically invested in the status quo continuing. These people don't care if the game dies because of unsustainable commerce practices, all they care about is bragging how THEY can afford dual lands and we can not. They don't want filthy casuals ruining their precious cardboard investment.
Quote from DioBut people can easily acquire these cards and trade them for other staples.
it's very hard.
Quote from CrimeoIf you can't make minimum wage doing it, then it's stupid to do it instead of just paying out of pocket for the card you want...
I don't recall saying it was hard. I could order one in the next 30 seconds if I wanted to. Look here's one right here:
What I said was that is is prohibitively expensive, and that WOTC reprinting thoughtseize has absolutely nothing to do with making it any less expensive or more attainable, because if I were to trade up for it, I would be LOSING money due to working for less than I could even at McDonalds to do so.
What would make underground sea less expensive would be reprinting underground sea, nothing more, nothing less.
Quote from CrimeoAlso:
Followed 2 posts later by:
...quite the rapid change of heart, there.
Quote from DioThen why bother trading or playing in FNM? You're making less than minimum wage in both. Oh right, there's this thing called fun. Trading is fun for some people. And for most, so is playing. Yes, you could buy that Underground Sea right now with cash. But you could also just trade for one with cards you have, by not spending money. That's what trading's intended purpose is.
What I said was that you could easily trade for these current staples. What I said in the other post that was very hard was making money off of the game.
Quote from CrimeoI DON'T trade, or attend FNM. Nor do I find either of those things fun.
I like playing with my friends, at a kitchen table. None of whom have legacy staples. Yet all of whom would love to build the types of interesting new decks we could make if legacy staples were affordable.
It makes little sense to say that only people who enjoy ceaseless, economically inefficient trading should be allowed to play legacy magic, a game whose rules and core concept have nothing at all to do with trading.
That's like saying only people who enjoy tennis should be given an affordable opportunity to watch movies in theaters.
These are directly contradicting statements...
Underground sea is worth 10x as much as thoughtseize. If it is easy to trade from one to the other, then it logically follows that it is easy to make money trading, because you would have made a lot of money doing this.
How can the exact same action be both easy and difficult at the same time? You're talking in riddles.
Quote from Dechs KaisonWhat the Griselbrand, Xen. Just when I thought your stuff couldn't get any better, you churn out that Jeleva banner. It's gorgeous.
Quote from TobyornotTobyWait, is it illegal in America to have something like this: http://trevorperdue.com/mtg/tropicalislandproxy.jpg
Quote from CrimeoOkay fine, moving on to the heart of the matter as is relevant to the thread:
Let's forget any argument about trading or $ values for a moment. Just think of it this way: If there are, let's say 10,000 underground seas in circulation, and 5,000,000 players, then that's only one underground sea per 500 people.
No matter how you slice it, there's simply not enough to go around. If any more than 2,500 people want a playset of the card, then there WILL be a shortage, by logical necessity.
The only possible way to fix that (without counterfeiters) is for WOTC to print more of that specific card. No other cards they print will change that physical disparity between the number of underground seas and the number of people who need them, except for undergroud sea itself. My point is as simple as that. I apologize for my part in getting caught up in a side tangent.
Thank you!! This I agree with. So how do we establish dialogue with wizards?
Quote from JBlaze Become a judge they get all kinds of free shwag, or maybe get a job in a game store, hell go to wall mart and load up your pockets like some gypsy highwayman, do whatever I don't care just please for the love of God stop complaining so god damn much. Thank You
Quote from t3kn33kThank you!! This I agree with. So how do we establish dialogue with wizards?
Quote from JBlazego to wall mart and load up your pockets like some gypsy highwayman, do whatever I don't care just please for the love of God stop complaining so god damn much. Thank You
maybe a terabite of emails would be a good place to start making our case.
Quote from CrimeoWell write to them. But I don't think they will care, honestly, until/if there is enough pressure on them from people selling fakes (OR from people leaving the game in frustration at high prices) to convince them via their pocketbooks.
I could be wrong though. They seem to have acted in the interests of noisy people in the past -- it's just that usually the noisiest people are the collectors and "investors," not the other way around.
If I had to guess, I'd wager that what's happened in the past was something like this:
When normal players get screwed over it happens GRADUALLY (slowly creeping prices as people join and cards aren't printed), and when the investors have gotten screwed over, it's been SUDDEN (like reverberate being printed). So there's been more of a galvanizing force for investors to rally and complain loudly and at once, and no such rallying force for other players. So what they hear over and over is the investors, and they act accordingly.
If I'm right about that, then it might be possible, if somehow somebody or group could organize a lot of people at once, to convince them to act according to non-investor interests instead.
Quote from JBlaze...go to wall mart and load up your pockets like some gypsy highwayman, do whatever I don't care just please for the love of God stop complaining so god damn much. Thank You
Quote from Crimeo
How the hell do you go about contacting a large, representative sample of magic players?
Quote from t3kn33k
Mtgsalvation has the means and the opportunity, if enough people can actually agree that the reserved list should be abolished.
Could mtgsalvation.com actually be the salvationofmtg....com
Quote from Stroggoii
The mindset of the average speculator. Totaly unsurprising to tell the truth.
Quote from DrWormThe issue is that no matter how many people send them emails, they claim that it is 100% off the table, and there is no way that they can abolish the reserve list. Now, clearly some people just flat-out don't believe what the people at WotC say, and have said for some time, and there is really no convincing them, but I genuinely see it as all but impossible to influence them to change their stance. The frustrating fact is the legally they can't share the reasons why this is the case so even people like myself who don't like or agree with the reserved list but might understand the neccisity if we had all the information are left unsatisfied.
...and how do you get them to agree with your view? It is clearly not one that everyone shares.
they claim that it is 100% off the table
Its simple. They have the option to care. If they do not care then start the printing presses.
Quote from JBlazeI love that cards cost as much as they do. Drinking 18yo scotch and firing guns is good but nothing i mean nothing gives me an inflated sense of self esteem like going to FNM with a binder worth the price of a fairly nice car and using revised Tundras to light my cuban cigar's cause hey they were SP anway.