Response to some common responses:
-I really don't need the money from selling the cards. I don't have so much money that $30k is insignificant but I already have more excess money than that that I am just investing anyway. Why not keep it in cards which are doing better than any other investment right now?
-My wife is a major factor in this. She, justifiably, feels like she is taking a back seat to Magic and she has no desire to play it with me (trust me, I've tried). She likes to work out so we can do that together. She likes to sing so we can do music together. She likes to play certain video games so we can do that together. I want to find hobbies that we can both enjoy.
-The player on Cockatrice didn't really affect me so much by his behavior as he caused reflection. It was more “why am I wasting my time with this jerk whom I don't know instead of hanging out with my wife/kids/friends?” than “his comments cut me so deep I want to cry and quit Magic.”
-I don't think that slowing down or just keeping a few decks or a cube is the answer. I have already slowed down quite a bit. I used to have cards in hand 2-3 hours per day; now it is closer to 5 hours per week. However, there is still all the time online on Magic sites and thinking about Magic that eats away at me. I have to realize that I am an obsessive person and there are some things that I cannot do lightly. It has helped me in many areas, particularly school and work success, but it can be a detriment too.
-I understand that there is a social aspect of Magic but I honestly don't need it. There are plenty of other ways to spend quality time with my kids and help them grow. Some of my best friends play Magic with me occasionally because they know I like it but most of our interactions are not Magic. I don't really have any good friends that I met playing Magic, just “Magic acquaintances”. I am really at a point in my life where I already have too many friends. Basically I don't even have enough time to devote to my current best friends, let alone 2nd or 3rd tier friends. If you are not at this stage of life yet, you will be some day.
-I do still have fun playing Magic but I have realized that if I play at all, I go so full bore that it takes up too much of my time, even in my mind. That is why I am choosing to quit even though I do have fun playing. I can find something else that I think is fun that benefits me more and hopefully won't become an obsession.
So I'm guessing that you're likely a primary care physician in a private practice setting (?). I can't say that I understand the type of lifestyle you're going through at the moment, but as someone who went through almost a year in a family medicine residency, I'd have to empathize with your decision here. I can't imagine being competitive with such a game in the midst of such a career let alone raising a family at the same time.
I am boarded in PM&R and Interventional Pain Management.
is anyone else going to say this? Many hobbies do not make youbetter. Hobbies are a way for you to relax, take a break from your regular life, and have fun. If your post said anything about not having fun with magic anymore, then quit. But please do not let one negative player affect your decision on how you spend your free time.
I would argue that playing guitar, lifting weights and playing basketball are all better for me than Magic. There are some mental gymnastics with Magic but it really isn't that difficult and I would like to find other ways to challenge myself without becoming obsessed.
...I have found more recently I do have away to give back, and I go out of way to help new mtg players in anyway I can (just being friendly is a start!) but I'll talk with them about what they are trying to do, offer some tips, give them cards or sleeves...this has been quite a gift in return, as I found giving back, nearly all of the other 'self-infected' stuff just goes away...and I have now even seen my son start to do the same..hmmmm!...
This is similar to what I had found as my one joy. I have put all of my excess rares/valuables into a trade binder and I enjoyed giving them away to young players at tournaments.
Sounds like a good investment to me. $15,000 in and now it's worth $30,000. Show me a bank that can match that rate of return. Good job
I'd go through it and sell anything standard legal, and save anything played in modern or legacy.
I think this is truly awesome advice and is exactly what I will do. The standard stuff will only drop in the future if it cannot be played in Modern or Legacy.
... I just wanted to say, don't be so hard on yourself.
I play guitar too. I taught myself about 3-4 years ago when I turned 30. I'm solidly intermediate now, I can play songs and have fun composing my own music. I'm probably never going to perform for other people much, and I don't know if, when I have kids, they will love music like I do. My point is, if I stuck to the criteria of "eating, sleeping, working, developing meaningful relationships or improving myself," playing guitar would be a waste of time...
I really am ok, don't worry about me. I think that playing guitar fits under "improving myself".
I also understand how this feels. I have two young ones, full time job with plenty of challenge and an old guitar waiting for me to pick it up. It appears that there's a large demographic of older MtG-players with guitars. Maybe WotC should design some cards for us...
My collection is a bit more extensive than yours, by about 3-4 times and I've been playing for 20 years soon....
Hopefully you can find a good balance betwen family, work and hobbies. But with 5 little ones, I can understand that your wife might need as much as possible of your time also. That's usually my wifes complain also. After I showed how the money moves she agreed to let me keep dealing cards, but every now and then notes the amount of time keeping the cards in some semblance of order takes. Also keeping fit should be the one thing to prioritize over hobbies. Being healthy and fit will allow you more energy for your family even after work.
HAHA about the guitar thing. It sounds like you have made a decent side business out of Magic, good for you. The last paragraph is good stuff about family and fitness before hobbies and I agree completely.
I'm not sure I fully agree with the OP. While I understand he didn't mean it like that, it nevertheless sounds like he's saying "consider quitting Magic and get another hobby". In other words, if you find yourself spending too much of your time on Magic, just change to another hobby.
So all your time now goes to the other hobby? What good does that do?
And why? If you enjoy one hobby, why forcefully change to another? I don't mean it's not good to try a diverse variety of hobbies. What I'm objecting to is the idea of quitting one hobby in favor of a new one. Try, yes. Forcefully quit the old one, why?
There are hobbies that don't cause so much obsession and time suck as Magic does.
...
As for the part about your kids growing up to like a nerdy game... What is that even supposed to mean? ...
Magic is a nerdy game. For better or worse, it is. "Nerd" culture has become cooler in recent years but it is still nerdy. I am a full-on nerd (comics, RPGs, video games, card games, movies) but I call a spade a spade.
...Just one quick observation: If you're the kind of person that can get that obsessed with one thing, and you also have a genuine love for music, you have the potential to become an amazing guitarist. Give that a proper shot. Playing music is incredibly satisfying, more so than playing Magic can ever be imho, and it doesn't have that unquenchable thirst quality.
Speaking as somebody that spend most of his childhood in a game store Magic helped me more than any other outlet I had. I have played magic since I was 11 (right around when Saviors of Kamigawa came out) and it really helped me a lot in life. For one my vocabulary is much more broad from some of the card names, it taught me sportsmanship, and even basic social skills. Because I was playing a game catered mostly to 18+ through interacting with them I was much more mature for my age. If they show interest don't hide them from tournament play.
I've always had a great vocabulary and spelling ability and I didn't play Magic until I was 30. It happened because I read obsessively as a child.
I comprehended it perfectly. He has a very poor sense of priorities and should probably worry more about feeding his five kids than the emotional problems a card game causes him.
He obviously won't tell us, but I would be very interested to know if the OP has any other kinds of addiction problems. Drugs, gambling, etc.
I do need to reevaluate my priorities. Again, this is why I am doing this. My kids are fine. I definitely put them and my career above everything else. What was getting left behind was my wife and myself in the evenings after the kids are in bed. I want to change that.
I have never tried a drug in my life. I didn't drink until I was 21 and rarely drink now. I have spent maybe $100 lifetime on gambling. I did have an addiction to Star Wars Galaxies at one time and it was killing my marriage and my medical school grades but I sold my character in a manner similar to this and I have never regretted it.
Interesting post. I was intrigued by your post, as I am actually a 34 year old physician who is recently returning to magic after playing in high school many years ago!...
Anyways, I wish you luck with your decision, and hope you find the right thing for you. I am hoping to not end up in your shoes in a few years time from spending waayyyy too much on pieces of cardboard!!
Finally, the obligatory InterWebz quote: "Can I haz your stuffs???!!"
What kind of doc are you? I hope my story serves as a cautionary tale for you. No.
I don't mean to belittle your experiences, but I've heard similar stories about a variety of other activities. We (humans) have the opportunity to learn from everything we do. The things you mention could be learned through other activities that offer advantages that Magic can't. Knowing nothing else about the OP's children, I'd caution against pushing them towards the game simply because their father seems like the kind of person to become easily obsessed with that sort of thing. Magic is not something you want to be obsessed with and those kids may be genetically predisposed to falling into that trap.
There are hobbies that don't cause so much obsession and time suck as Magic does.
Obsession is a strong force. It gave you a lot of success. It is also a dangerous force. You need to learn to manage it. If you don't, you'll just become obsessed with another hobby. Going to the gym is good right? Not if you spend just as much time as a gym junkie and ignore your wife. Magic is just pieces of cardboard. You don't burn and sniff it, it does not alter the chemicals in your mind.
What you need is to control your attachment, in the Zen sense.
1) Play 1 hour a week.
2) Play no more than 1 hour a week.
3) Spend $15 a week on Magic
4) Spend no more than $15 a week on Magic.
5) Keep doing 1-4 even when you start losing a lot.
What you are doing makes sense, and I fully respect it, I just wanted to chime in and say yet again, to be careful how you store those cards. I've known people who left theirs in the basement (mostly forgotten) for years, only to dig them out and find that mold had taken very valuable items and made them worthless. Paper is something that needs to be in a controlled climate. I store my cards off the floor and run a dehumidifier connected to an automated pump to make sure that they stay at a reasonably consistent humidity. Cardboard is very easy to destroy. You don't want your cards to become infested, water damaged, or warped, and should keep these things in mind when putting them away.
Same boat here. Married with twins on the way. I just cannot reason paying so much for paper to enjoy, especially when it can go to so many other things instead.. i.e furniture, new home improvements, activities wwith the FAM etc.I i still have all of mycards and cube, whichI can playy whenI would like to.
however, the people at all of theLGS around where I live are just smelly, and weirdos. I can't really enjoy this hobby with them.s
i
Same boat here. Married with twins on the way. I just cannot reason paying so much for paper to enjoy, especially when it can go to so many other things instead.. i.e furniture, new home improvements, activities wwith the FAM etc.I i still have all of mycards and cube, whichI can playy whenI would like to.
however, the people at all of theLGS around where I live are just smelly, and weirdos. I can't really enjoy this hobby with them.s
i
Same boat here. Married with twins on the way. I just cannot reason paying so much for paper to enjoy, especially when it can go to so many other things instead.. i.e furniture, new home improvements, activities wwith the FAM etc.I i still have all of mycards and cube, whichI can playy whenI would like to.
however, the people at all of theLGS around where I live are just smelly, and weirdos. I can't really enjoy this hobby with them.s
i
Coincidentally, I'm also married with twins on the way. I was playing 3+ hours/day on MTGO and it really felt like I wasn't in control of my life. I would uninstall it but then feel the addiction soon after and reinstall it and play again. Finally I was able to stop after changing my password to some random thing I don't know (since apparently you can't delete your account). Now I'm down to 0-1 paper drafts/week, which will be easy enough to stop when the babies are born.
An easy thing to do with magic is just only play with good friends, and restrict yourself from playing otherwise (and have your friends keep track of how much you spend so you don't go overboard). I feel that if I am just playing with randoms I'm not truly getting enriched by the experience, but when I am playing with my buds I feel the game is always fun. It is very time consuming and costly, so having this restriction on myself keeps me casual and makes each game that more meaningful.
I think for anyone that gets into competitive magic something will eventually happen that brings you to a cross roads. You have to decide whether or not you want to live the MTG lifestyle and if not what does that mean?
If you want it to magic can be a full time ordeal. Depending on where you live you can spend literally every weekend at a different event. If you play on MTGO you can spend any free hour playing. At a certain point, especially for competitive people, you hit a wall where you have to choose whether or not you want to keep pursuing competitive magic. The problem is when you've been putting 3 or 4 nights a week into practicing it's hard to say "nah I'm just going to play FNM and events". You know that you will not really be prepared doing that so it seems silly to kid yourself and play competitively at all. Then you start to consider everything you could be doing instead.
It's not easy to go from tournament regular to kitchen table only. It's easier to just go find a new hobby.
Opening up this thread from the main screen, I would never have guessed it was you that was posting the thread. You've made some really fantastic points that I've wondered about a few times. I use to live in St. Louis where it had an OK magic scene and I had quite a few different friend groups that could play together. Recently, I have moved to Utah where the scene is not so fantastic. The outdoors are beautiful, I've married an amazing girl, and I'm about to start pharmacy school and prepare for my life-long career (as well as have a side offer of instead purchasing a successful medical practice that I've worked at for 4 years and take over as administrator/owner). Do I really want to spend as much time as I've been spending online brewing and discussing cards while my wife sits next to me? Probably not.
I really appreciate your reflection and the way you posed it. There are a lot more things in life. Sure, there's no problem with occasionally opening up the cards and playing with guys, friends, local tournaments, etc... but what's the point of playing or brewing with randoms? Thank you. I appreciate the post.
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Current Decks:
Modern
Modern Warp / UR Control / UR Storm / Naya Breachshift / ElectroBalance
Legacy
Solidarity / Lands / Sneak and Show / Grixis Delver / Reanimator / Belcher / Storm / Dredge
Great post... honestly the second 'what you do for fun' stops being fun, man, it is time to not do it. I loooove magic, but I think it is because I'm able to be fairly casual about it. If I was out competing, given my personality, I think I would have quit.
Firstly, I'm not sure why the rush to thank you for your post. With all due respect I don't quite understand the position of: "I don't want to play this game anymore, but I sure want to get attention by telling everyone why." I have stopped and started this game and others a few times when I needed to focus on other things, but I did not go out of my way to make sure anonymous people on the internet knew about it. What would make me think that other people would even notice if I stopped, let alone care? You want to make a change? Great, that's your deal, but do it without the fanfare.
There are plenty of reasons to make changes and step away from a game for a while due to lifestyle or your obsessive proclivities, but there was one huge issue that stuck out for me in as myopic:
2. I hoped my boys(kids?) would get into it and go to tournaments with me. The problem here is that that might not actually be that good for them. Getting into a nerdy game as a kid might not really be what's best for them. When I got into the game I was already a solid adult and it has changed me for the worse. What would it do to a kid trying to figure out who they are? Also, if I am so obsessed with the game that it takes me away from them, they might just learn to hate it as much as my wife.
I am 40, a married father of two boys with the oldest being 19, and my wife and I are both nurses. About thirteen years ago our oldest learned about Pokemon cards from one of his friends at school and asked for some. I've been a gamer since I was 10, and while I had yet to catch the MTG "bug" up to that point I had an inkling of what a TCG was. I had no interest in the characters at that point and never would have picked up the game myself, but my son wanted to play it with me so we did. Eventually I needed to find a more interesting game which led me to MTG, and over time my son wanted to try it too. At the time he was well below grade-level for reading and we could not get him interested in reading books, but I told him that if he wanted to play MTG he had to try to read the cards before asking me what they said. By the end of that school year he was reading well above grade-level and choosing to read books on his own. There were probably several factors that got him there, but I have no doubt that MTG was one of them.
Over the years we have played video games, table-top RPGs, on top of cards games together and I count these as some of my fondest memories. I knew almost all of his friends in middle school and high school due to playing games with them, and knew which ones to keep an eye on. He had to earn money or trade for cards if he wanted them (aside from gifts), and it taught him the value if money and work. He was only as inactive as I let him be, and all it took was a nudge outdoors for him to be running off playing imaginary games with other kids. He has always had a wide variety of interests, and played basketball, soccer, and a little baseball in school. You're their dad, and they will only be as obsessed with things as you let them be.
So if I am questioning whether this is good for my kids, shouldn't I question whether it is good for me? I feel that everyone needs a hobby and I love to play Magic but does it really improve me? The way I gauge that is to think about being 20 years in the future and imagine if I will wish I'd play more Magic. The answer is "heck no!" In high school and college I was very athletic and played nerd games. As I have gotten older and responsibilities have mounted, I've left behind most of the athletics and only play Magic in my reduced free time.
Then it hit me: I'M WASTING MY TIME and there are few things more precious than time. I should be spending my time eating, sleeping, working, developing meaningful relationships or improving myself. If my hobby also does one of these, then it is never a waste of time.
MTG has helped me to develop a meaningful relationship with my son (as well as others), and the tactics and ever shifting game play helps to sharpen mental acuity. Any athletics I want to do (biking and swimming mostly) I do. The implication that you cannot have varied activities while playing Magic, and that MTG is a waste of time is pretty irresponsible and short sighted.
Coincidentally, I'm also married with twins on the way. I was playing 3+ hours/day on MTGO and it really felt like I wasn't in control of my life. I would uninstall it but then feel the addiction soon after and reinstall it and play again. Finally I was able to stop after changing my password to some random thing I don't know (since apparently you can't delete your account). Now I'm down to 0-1 paper drafts/week, which will be easy enough to stop when the babies are born.
This is exactly why I told myself that I would never play online. If I had it on my computer, I could easily see it consuming my life. I always told myself that however addicted I am to Magic, it is much better than being addicted to Crack. But what if it is nearly the same, only without having as many adverse health effects? Then it can possibly be nearly as bad (and I am not downplaying addictions at all).
The current problem for me is that without putting in the testing time, I am finding myself losing to players who I normally would beat easily. This also prevents me from getting prize money too often and that is one of the real highs of Magic to me.
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Legacy - Sneak Show, BR Reanimator, Miracles, UW Stoneblade
Premodern - Trix, RecSur, Enchantress, Reanimator, Elves https://www.facebook.com/groups/PremodernUSA/ Modern - Neobrand, Hogaak Vine, Elves
Standard - Mono Red (6-2 and 5-3 in 2 McQ)
Draft - (I wish I had more time for limited...)
Commander - Norin the Wary, Grimgrin, Adun Oakenshield (taking forever to build) (dead format for me)
I am a person that can get kinda obsessive about things. I actually played magic for a year before getting a single card (borrowed decks) because I knew I would end up spending way too much time on it.
A few years later, and I find myself spending lots of money I shouldn't really be spending (as a student). But, I really enjoy this game. Like all hobbies, you have to moderate them. Diversify. I still play sports, go out, see friends... but once a week, I'm in a store playing magic. A few times a year, I spend a weekend at a tournament or pre-release. Once in a while I play on a weekday.
What worries me more is not how much I play magic, but how much I spend reading about Magic and building decks. It is a problem, since I am a hardcore Johnny who always wants to build something new. I think I enjoy building more than I enjoy playing (especially against jerks, as you say). For FNM, I have played 6 different decks since the start of Theros block. I spend a lot of money and a lot of time on this game.
But it will never be my only hobby. Most weeks nowadays, I only play at FNM. Most weeks, I don't even do any deckbuilding. But, when I have some free time, I do it.
If this game is more than a hobby, it is important you put constraints. I refuse to buy any card over 20$. I play two sports. I see friends and family every week. As long as I put constraints on my time investment with magic, I am fine. I do the same with other hobbies.
Do what you have to do. If you need to cut it completely, do it. But, one day, when your kids grow up, and you consider playing again - put constraints on your play. Only play once a week. Don't spend more than X dollars a month.
You can think of it as an addiction too. Any program designed to help with computer addiction or gambling addiction should apply.
Firstly, I'm not sure why the rush to thank you for your post. With all due respect I don't quite understand the position of: "I don't want to play this game anymore, but I sure want to get attention by telling everyone why." I have stopped and started this game and others a few times when I needed to focus on other things, but I did not go out of my way to make sure anonymous people on the internet knew about it. What would make me think that other people would even notice if I stopped, let alone care? You want to make a change? Great, that's your deal, but do it without the fanfare.
That is one of the beauties of the internet. If I am alone in this and nobody cares, my post goes uncommented and quickly falls off the main page, never to be heard from again (me or the post). If there are others who might feel the same this gives them a chance to consider their own priorities and connect in some way to someone else in a similar situation. Plus, I may gain some valuable advice from other Magic players and those similar to me that will allow me to make a better decision than the one I am going with now.
I am 40, a married father of two boys with the oldest being 19, and my wife and I are both nurses. About thirteen years ago our oldest learned about Pokemon cards from one of his friends at school and asked for some. I've been a gamer since I was 10, and while I had yet to catch the MTG "bug" up to that point I had an inkling of what a TCG was. I had no interest in the characters at that point and never would have picked up the game myself, but my son wanted to play it with me so we did. Eventually I needed to find a more interesting game which led me to MTG, and over time my son wanted to try it too. At the time he was well below grade-level for reading and we could not get him interested in reading books, but I told him that if he wanted to play MTG he had to try to read the cards before asking me what they said. By the end of that school year he was reading well above grade-level and choosing to read books on his own. There were probably several factors that got him there, but I have no doubt that MTG was one of them.
Over the years we have played video games, table-top RPGs, on top of cards games together and I count these as some of my fondest memories. I knew almost all of his friends in middle school and high school due to playing games with them, and knew which ones to keep an eye on. He had to earn money or trade for cards if he wanted them (aside from gifts), and it taught him the value if money and work. He was only as inactive as I let him be, and all it took was a nudge outdoors for him to be running off playing imaginary games with other kids. He has always had a wide variety of interests, and played basketball, soccer, and a little baseball in school. You're their dad, and they will only be as obsessed with things as you let them be.
MTG has helped me to develop a meaningful relationship with my son (as well as others), and the tactics and ever shifting game play helps to sharpen mental acuity. Any athletics I want to do (biking and swimming mostly) I do. The implication that you cannot have varied activities while playing Magic, and that MTG is a waste of time is pretty irresponsible and short sighted.
All of these things were happening countless times before Magic and will continue to happen without Magic:
- Dads connecting with their kids
- People making friends and memories
- Developing mental acuity
- Learning to read good
I would argue that they happen WITH Magic being there, not BECAUSE of Magic being there.
Also, I am not saying that I won't ever pick up cards again or play Magic with my kids again. I think it is unlikely but my keeping the cards is at least a partial concession that I may want to return and am doing this partially as a trial. If my life doesn't seem to improve in any measurable way then why not go back to playing the game that I love? However, if my life does improve, then it is time to rid myself of Magic forever.
Thanks for your thought-provoking response. Every discussion needs dissenters.
@OP, how do you find time for MTG when you are a practicing physician, married, and have 5 kids!??! That blows my mind!
Yeah I totally understand where OP is coming from. A friend of mine told me this when I tried to get him back to MTG: "I love the game and all, but I just don't feel it betters me as a person".
That statement is so true. I carry that with me whenever I think of my cards. Whenever I have the urge to spend more time and money on MTG, I ask myself, can I spend this time with my family or bettering myself?? 9/10 times the answer is yes.
Don't get me wrong, I still play (I use MTG as a way to relax). I play once a month. But that's it. The only time I touch my cards, is when I'm grabbing it to FNM nowadays.
"I love the game and all, but I just don't feel it betters me as a person".
I think this is a very true situation that comes up and it's a unique situation to this game.
For example... lets say a bunch of your friends are really into Texas Hold'em, they play 3 times a week every week. You cannot afford to play that often or cannot spare that much time so you only go once a month. This is very possible to do and still be "competitive". If they play Basketball... hey at least you are on a team so you can contribute without being the best and you're getting exercise. If your friend play Chess you can put the time into learning it once and it doesnt change, you're friends might use a slightly different strategy week to week but nothing catastrophic changes.
On the other hand... with magic you decide to show up for FNM once a month... you get to play 3 or 4 times and suddenly there are new cards again, you're always out of practice and dont know typical card interactions or strategies. It would be like going into a chess tournament every week only knowing the basic rules and nothing else while everyone else knows high level strategy.
Because of this, it's hard to be a "casual" player unless you happen to have a group of friends that are also casual players. Each player ends up having to decide if the amount of time, money and effort they have to put into it is worth it to themselves.
I'm a few years older than you and have quit twice. One thing I can promise you is magic will always have a place in your life. Scale back your play. Find a small group you can tolerate. Play only commander. Anything other than quitting all together. I have the feeling you don't want to quit. Give your family, life and practice the time they need but don't deny yourself the little pleasures.
First I want to applaud you for taking such a step back and reassessing some of the things in life, it isn't easy to do, and as a psychotherapist I think that whatever path you choose from her forward will be well served by your ability to stop, think, and more importantly take a walk in your wife and children's shoes. I do feel like on some level, and I may be saying this more for soothing my own dissonance about the time spent playing magic than yours, that there is some middle ground. It too at times has impacted other parts of my life that I hold dear, my wife, rock climbing (my first sporting love), even my career (as I type this on MTGSalvation with my ignored dissertation open in the background). But that being said I try to make it as social as possible. Granted its different for me than it seems for you, in that I got into magic from a close group of climbing friends as a fun saturday night activity, and have tried to keep it that way as much as possible. Outside of MTGS and youtube I only play once, maybe 2x a week, only in person, and only in tournaments if I'm making a night of it with my friends. I find this helps to keep the thirst at bay, give me something to look forward too, and help compartmentalize it within my non-magic activities and relationships. Not perfect, but manageable.
What kind of doc are you? I hope my story serves as a cautionary tale for you. No.
I am boarded in family medicine, and practice in a small emergency department.
Yes, your post did make me think a bit about being involved in this time and money consuming hobby! Ultimately though, I think it comes down to individuals, and as others have posted, what is right for one, is not for another. If you become so obsessed with a hobby that it interferes with everything else, then it is a problem, regardless of the particular hobby. Just be careful not to trade one obsession for another.
For me, I tend to get borderline obsessed with one thing for a while, then switch. I had been playing video games in my free time, and now it's mostly magic at the moment :). That being said, I try to ensure I spend time with my wife, and to do other things. Work certainly takes up plenty of time and mental effort ;). I also set aside a certain amount of money each month, and the rest goes to savings. With my free amount I let myself spend what I wish, but cannot go over the monthly amount (for all expenses). Hopefully I won't end up in the same situation you find yourself in, and I certainly hope you find what works best for your life and family. Best of luck to you!
Anything online comes with a lack of accountability clause. That unfortunately is just where society is these days. It could be anything, it's certainly not ONLY applicable to Magic.
But as posted above, if your not having fun, why continue doing something. These too are rules I live by.
It's nice that everyone's collection has doubled on paper the last little bit, the reality is that it isn't worth the amount we want it to be
I definitely play more magic than I should and spend more money on it than I should. However, I've found that magic has actually been improving my life. I have recently begun doing card alters, which is improving myself artistically. It's helped me with decision making, self control, and strategical thinking and planning, as well as even a little but about human psychology. I'm also a tad bit lacking in the social department, so if it weren't for magic, my girlfriend would basically be the limit of my social interactions. And, finally, I don't view anything I enjoy as a waste of time.
All of these things were happening countless times before Magic and will continue to happen without Magic:
- Dads connecting with their kids
- People making friends and memories
- Developing mental acuity
- Learning to read good
You missed the point. You implied that you thought magic would be bad for your kids, and I argued that it can be good. I was not saying that it is the only way to teach a person to read or make friends, just that the game can in fact aid in these areas. You expressed some worry about your kids being nerds, as if this will harm them in some way ot make them deficient, whereas I am pointing out that nerd or otherwise your kids have the same access to all the great and essential things about being an adolescent. There is NOTHING inherent in MTG, or any other kind of gaming, that is bad for your kids when you provide responsible parenting. My point is not that MTG is essential, but that it can be part of a healthy and varied adolescent and adult life which includes sports and other physical and social activities. You can't handle MTG in your life due to your proclivities, but there is nothing inherently bad about the game that is not present in any activity that causes a dopamine release in the brain.
I would argue that they happen WITH Magic being there, not BECAUSE of Magic being there.
In most some cases with some of those, sure. In my son's case I firmly believe that without a self directed drive to read in order to play it would have been a much longer and more stressful road. In a situation like that there is so much resistance and stress due to how difficult the task is for the child, that it is very hard to actually learn something, but when you find a way to engage them on their terms and with an activity that they want to do, then then retention is greater. I hope none of your kids have the same difficulties, but if they do you will find that using something they are self motivated to do and enjoy as the vehicle for improvement is the best way.
My wife also does not play TCGs, and there have been clashes about the game at times that I was not being resonsible and keeping my life balanced, but I corrected things without giving up the game I love. It can be done, though if you choose not to then that's fine too. In 20 years of marriage my wife and I have both learned that there is room for family activities, couple activities, and individual activities...even with two working parents and one severely developmentally delayed child (our youngest). My wife has things she does with her friends, and I have things I do with mine (and our oldest), but there is time for family and romantic activities as well if you communicate and plan well.
Thanks for sharing your thoughts. It resonates a lot with me.
I really enjoy playing this game, and I'm quite competitive, but I'm worried that I'm taking it too far. I have no aspirations to make the Pro Tour or anything (in fact, I wouldn't travel more than a few hours to play Magic because I can't justify spending all that time), but I find I take up way too much of my time thinking about Legacy or Vintage. It's difficult to balance with my responsibilities as a medical student (and I can't fathom how I'll be able to keep up this game once I'm in your position in a few years).
I don't think I'll ever quit the game cold turkey, but I'm thinking of stepping back from the two weekly Legacy events I regularly attend to give myself more time to evaluate how emotionally invested I want to remain in this game. I think there can be a healthy balance, but most competitive players I hang out with (including myself) are probably way past that point.
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Due to real-life obligations, I am taking a long break from Magic which may include missing the local Legacy GP. Apologies for not being able to keep my threads updated.
I almost exclusively play MtG with friends and EDH. I do draft semi-regularly but I must be honest and admit I find the "typical Magic player" in my city to be insufferable (must you constantly babble as we are drafting? Must you tell everyone at the table what colours/archetype I drafted based on how you read the signals?) and pretty much gave up on the idea of doing any kind of competitive playing.
I'd recommend to OP to keep his cards and take some time off. Maybe try to find a local playgroup of like minded individuals that you can meet up with and play every now and then, that's what I enjoy the most out of MtG: the game is a great way to spend time with friends. I'm 30, nowhere near as accomplished as OP (I feel diminished honestly!) and finding the time to relax with some friends and play is something I cherish; obviously it might be harder with 5 (!) kids and all that but it's the best way to enjoy the game, IMO, if you don't enjoy playing with the average player.
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-I really don't need the money from selling the cards. I don't have so much money that $30k is insignificant but I already have more excess money than that that I am just investing anyway. Why not keep it in cards which are doing better than any other investment right now?
-My wife is a major factor in this. She, justifiably, feels like she is taking a back seat to Magic and she has no desire to play it with me (trust me, I've tried). She likes to work out so we can do that together. She likes to sing so we can do music together. She likes to play certain video games so we can do that together. I want to find hobbies that we can both enjoy.
-The player on Cockatrice didn't really affect me so much by his behavior as he caused reflection. It was more “why am I wasting my time with this jerk whom I don't know instead of hanging out with my wife/kids/friends?” than “his comments cut me so deep I want to cry and quit Magic.”
-I don't think that slowing down or just keeping a few decks or a cube is the answer. I have already slowed down quite a bit. I used to have cards in hand 2-3 hours per day; now it is closer to 5 hours per week. However, there is still all the time online on Magic sites and thinking about Magic that eats away at me. I have to realize that I am an obsessive person and there are some things that I cannot do lightly. It has helped me in many areas, particularly school and work success, but it can be a detriment too.
-I understand that there is a social aspect of Magic but I honestly don't need it. There are plenty of other ways to spend quality time with my kids and help them grow. Some of my best friends play Magic with me occasionally because they know I like it but most of our interactions are not Magic. I don't really have any good friends that I met playing Magic, just “Magic acquaintances”. I am really at a point in my life where I already have too many friends. Basically I don't even have enough time to devote to my current best friends, let alone 2nd or 3rd tier friends. If you are not at this stage of life yet, you will be some day.
-I do still have fun playing Magic but I have realized that if I play at all, I go so full bore that it takes up too much of my time, even in my mind. That is why I am choosing to quit even though I do have fun playing. I can find something else that I think is fun that benefits me more and hopefully won't become an obsession.
I am boarded in PM&R and Interventional Pain Management.
I would argue that playing guitar, lifting weights and playing basketball are all better for me than Magic. There are some mental gymnastics with Magic but it really isn't that difficult and I would like to find other ways to challenge myself without becoming obsessed.
I don't have a lot, that's why what I do have is so important.
This is similar to what I had found as my one joy. I have put all of my excess rares/valuables into a trade binder and I enjoyed giving them away to young players at tournaments.
That was great, not whining at all.
I think this is truly awesome advice and is exactly what I will do. The standard stuff will only drop in the future if it cannot be played in Modern or Legacy.
I really am ok, don't worry about me. I think that playing guitar fits under "improving myself".
HAHA about the guitar thing. It sounds like you have made a decent side business out of Magic, good for you. The last paragraph is good stuff about family and fitness before hobbies and I agree completely.
There are hobbies that don't cause so much obsession and time suck as Magic does.
My emotional maturity is fine. My general maturity might need some work. I AM reevaluating my life priorities, that's why I am doing this.
Magic is a nerdy game. For better or worse, it is. "Nerd" culture has become cooler in recent years but it is still nerdy. I am a full-on nerd (comics, RPGs, video games, card games, movies) but I call a spade a spade.
Yes, THIS.
I've always had a great vocabulary and spelling ability and I didn't play Magic until I was 30. It happened because I read obsessively as a child.
I have honestly felt a little bit of guilt about this.
I do need to reevaluate my priorities. Again, this is why I am doing this. My kids are fine. I definitely put them and my career above everything else. What was getting left behind was my wife and myself in the evenings after the kids are in bed. I want to change that.
I have never tried a drug in my life. I didn't drink until I was 21 and rarely drink now. I have spent maybe $100 lifetime on gambling. I did have an addiction to Star Wars Galaxies at one time and it was killing my marriage and my medical school grades but I sold my character in a manner similar to this and I have never regretted it.
What kind of doc are you? I hope my story serves as a cautionary tale for you. No.
Yes, this.
Standard: UWR
Modern: RDW, Twin
Legacy: I am 3 Candelabra of Tawnos from being able to build almost any tier 1 or 1.5 deck. Here are the ones I care about right now:
-Aggro: UWR/RUB/WUB/RUG/UR Delver; Affinity; Burn
-Control: Stoneblade; UWr Miracles; UB Tezzeret
-Combo: Hive Mind; Combo Elves; Omni Tell; T.E.S.
Vintage: Grixis Painter
EDH: Rith, the Awakener
Obsession is a strong force. It gave you a lot of success. It is also a dangerous force. You need to learn to manage it. If you don't, you'll just become obsessed with another hobby. Going to the gym is good right? Not if you spend just as much time as a gym junkie and ignore your wife. Magic is just pieces of cardboard. You don't burn and sniff it, it does not alter the chemicals in your mind.
What you need is to control your attachment, in the Zen sense.
1) Play 1 hour a week.
2) Play no more than 1 hour a week.
3) Spend $15 a week on Magic
4) Spend no more than $15 a week on Magic.
5) Keep doing 1-4 even when you start losing a lot.
however, the people at all of theLGS around where I live are just smelly, and weirdos. I can't really enjoy this hobby with them.s
i
Cube on Cubetutor
Come trade with Puca Trade!, the best place to get those hard to get cards no one else will trade!
however, the people at all of theLGS around where I live are just smelly, and weirdos. I can't really enjoy this hobby with them.s
i
Cube on Cubetutor
Come trade with Puca Trade!, the best place to get those hard to get cards no one else will trade!
Coincidentally, I'm also married with twins on the way. I was playing 3+ hours/day on MTGO and it really felt like I wasn't in control of my life. I would uninstall it but then feel the addiction soon after and reinstall it and play again. Finally I was able to stop after changing my password to some random thing I don't know (since apparently you can't delete your account). Now I'm down to 0-1 paper drafts/week, which will be easy enough to stop when the babies are born.
If you want it to magic can be a full time ordeal. Depending on where you live you can spend literally every weekend at a different event. If you play on MTGO you can spend any free hour playing. At a certain point, especially for competitive people, you hit a wall where you have to choose whether or not you want to keep pursuing competitive magic. The problem is when you've been putting 3 or 4 nights a week into practicing it's hard to say "nah I'm just going to play FNM and events". You know that you will not really be prepared doing that so it seems silly to kid yourself and play competitively at all. Then you start to consider everything you could be doing instead.
It's not easy to go from tournament regular to kitchen table only. It's easier to just go find a new hobby.
I really appreciate your reflection and the way you posed it. There are a lot more things in life. Sure, there's no problem with occasionally opening up the cards and playing with guys, friends, local tournaments, etc... but what's the point of playing or brewing with randoms? Thank you. I appreciate the post.
Modern Warp / UR Control / UR Storm / Naya Breachshift / ElectroBalance
Solidarity / Lands / Sneak and Show / Grixis Delver / Reanimator / Belcher / Storm / Dredge
www.theconnoisseurs.com
There are plenty of reasons to make changes and step away from a game for a while due to lifestyle or your obsessive proclivities, but there was one huge issue that stuck out for me in as myopic:
I am 40, a married father of two boys with the oldest being 19, and my wife and I are both nurses. About thirteen years ago our oldest learned about Pokemon cards from one of his friends at school and asked for some. I've been a gamer since I was 10, and while I had yet to catch the MTG "bug" up to that point I had an inkling of what a TCG was. I had no interest in the characters at that point and never would have picked up the game myself, but my son wanted to play it with me so we did. Eventually I needed to find a more interesting game which led me to MTG, and over time my son wanted to try it too. At the time he was well below grade-level for reading and we could not get him interested in reading books, but I told him that if he wanted to play MTG he had to try to read the cards before asking me what they said. By the end of that school year he was reading well above grade-level and choosing to read books on his own. There were probably several factors that got him there, but I have no doubt that MTG was one of them.
Over the years we have played video games, table-top RPGs, on top of cards games together and I count these as some of my fondest memories. I knew almost all of his friends in middle school and high school due to playing games with them, and knew which ones to keep an eye on. He had to earn money or trade for cards if he wanted them (aside from gifts), and it taught him the value if money and work. He was only as inactive as I let him be, and all it took was a nudge outdoors for him to be running off playing imaginary games with other kids. He has always had a wide variety of interests, and played basketball, soccer, and a little baseball in school. You're their dad, and they will only be as obsessed with things as you let them be.
MTG has helped me to develop a meaningful relationship with my son (as well as others), and the tactics and ever shifting game play helps to sharpen mental acuity. Any athletics I want to do (biking and swimming mostly) I do. The implication that you cannot have varied activities while playing Magic, and that MTG is a waste of time is pretty irresponsible and short sighted.
Reprint Opt for Modern!!
FREE DIG THOROUGH TIME!
PLAY MORE ROUGE DECKS!
This is exactly why I told myself that I would never play online. If I had it on my computer, I could easily see it consuming my life. I always told myself that however addicted I am to Magic, it is much better than being addicted to Crack. But what if it is nearly the same, only without having as many adverse health effects? Then it can possibly be nearly as bad (and I am not downplaying addictions at all).
The current problem for me is that without putting in the testing time, I am finding myself losing to players who I normally would beat easily. This also prevents me from getting prize money too often and that is one of the real highs of Magic to me.
Premodern - Trix, RecSur, Enchantress, Reanimator, Elves https://www.facebook.com/groups/PremodernUSA/
Modern - Neobrand, Hogaak Vine, Elves
Standard - Mono Red (6-2 and 5-3 in 2 McQ)
Draft - (I wish I had more time for limited...)
Commander -
Norin the Wary, Grimgrin, Adun Oakenshield (taking forever to build)(dead format for me)A few years later, and I find myself spending lots of money I shouldn't really be spending (as a student). But, I really enjoy this game. Like all hobbies, you have to moderate them. Diversify. I still play sports, go out, see friends... but once a week, I'm in a store playing magic. A few times a year, I spend a weekend at a tournament or pre-release. Once in a while I play on a weekday.
What worries me more is not how much I play magic, but how much I spend reading about Magic and building decks. It is a problem, since I am a hardcore Johnny who always wants to build something new. I think I enjoy building more than I enjoy playing (especially against jerks, as you say). For FNM, I have played 6 different decks since the start of Theros block. I spend a lot of money and a lot of time on this game.
But it will never be my only hobby. Most weeks nowadays, I only play at FNM. Most weeks, I don't even do any deckbuilding. But, when I have some free time, I do it.
If this game is more than a hobby, it is important you put constraints. I refuse to buy any card over 20$. I play two sports. I see friends and family every week. As long as I put constraints on my time investment with magic, I am fine. I do the same with other hobbies.
Do what you have to do. If you need to cut it completely, do it. But, one day, when your kids grow up, and you consider playing again - put constraints on your play. Only play once a week. Don't spend more than X dollars a month.
You can think of it as an addiction too. Any program designed to help with computer addiction or gambling addiction should apply.
8.RG Green Devotion Ramp/Combo 9.UR Draw Triggers 10.WUR Group stalling 11.WUR Voltron Spellslinger 12.WB Sacrificial Shenanigans
13.BR Creatureless Panharmonicon 14.BR Pingers and Eldrazi 15.URG Untapped Cascading
16.Reyhan, last of the Abzan's WUBG +1/+1 Counter Craziness 17.WUBRG Dragons aka Why did I make this?
Building: The Gitrog Monster lands, Glissa the Traitor stax, Muldrotha, the Gravetide Planeswalker Combo, Kydele, Chosen of Kruphix + Sidar Kondo of Jamuraa Clues, and Tribal Scarecrow Planeswalkers
That is one of the beauties of the internet. If I am alone in this and nobody cares, my post goes uncommented and quickly falls off the main page, never to be heard from again (me or the post). If there are others who might feel the same this gives them a chance to consider their own priorities and connect in some way to someone else in a similar situation. Plus, I may gain some valuable advice from other Magic players and those similar to me that will allow me to make a better decision than the one I am going with now.
All of these things were happening countless times before Magic and will continue to happen without Magic:
- Dads connecting with their kids
- People making friends and memories
- Developing mental acuity
- Learning to read good
I would argue that they happen WITH Magic being there, not BECAUSE of Magic being there.
Also, I am not saying that I won't ever pick up cards again or play Magic with my kids again. I think it is unlikely but my keeping the cards is at least a partial concession that I may want to return and am doing this partially as a trial. If my life doesn't seem to improve in any measurable way then why not go back to playing the game that I love? However, if my life does improve, then it is time to rid myself of Magic forever.
Thanks for your thought-provoking response. Every discussion needs dissenters.
Standard: UWR
Modern: RDW, Twin
Legacy: I am 3 Candelabra of Tawnos from being able to build almost any tier 1 or 1.5 deck. Here are the ones I care about right now:
-Aggro: UWR/RUB/WUB/RUG/UR Delver; Affinity; Burn
-Control: Stoneblade; UWr Miracles; UB Tezzeret
-Combo: Hive Mind; Combo Elves; Omni Tell; T.E.S.
Vintage: Grixis Painter
EDH: Rith, the Awakener
Yeah I totally understand where OP is coming from. A friend of mine told me this when I tried to get him back to MTG: "I love the game and all, but I just don't feel it betters me as a person".
That statement is so true. I carry that with me whenever I think of my cards. Whenever I have the urge to spend more time and money on MTG, I ask myself, can I spend this time with my family or bettering myself?? 9/10 times the answer is yes.
Don't get me wrong, I still play (I use MTG as a way to relax). I play once a month. But that's it. The only time I touch my cards, is when I'm grabbing it to FNM nowadays.
I think this is a very true situation that comes up and it's a unique situation to this game.
For example... lets say a bunch of your friends are really into Texas Hold'em, they play 3 times a week every week. You cannot afford to play that often or cannot spare that much time so you only go once a month. This is very possible to do and still be "competitive". If they play Basketball... hey at least you are on a team so you can contribute without being the best and you're getting exercise. If your friend play Chess you can put the time into learning it once and it doesnt change, you're friends might use a slightly different strategy week to week but nothing catastrophic changes.
On the other hand... with magic you decide to show up for FNM once a month... you get to play 3 or 4 times and suddenly there are new cards again, you're always out of practice and dont know typical card interactions or strategies. It would be like going into a chess tournament every week only knowing the basic rules and nothing else while everyone else knows high level strategy.
Because of this, it's hard to be a "casual" player unless you happen to have a group of friends that are also casual players. Each player ends up having to decide if the amount of time, money and effort they have to put into it is worth it to themselves.
UWRMiraclesRWU
Modern
UWRControlRWU
Standard
Ummm no...
Trade Thread
I am boarded in family medicine, and practice in a small emergency department.
Yes, your post did make me think a bit about being involved in this time and money consuming hobby! Ultimately though, I think it comes down to individuals, and as others have posted, what is right for one, is not for another. If you become so obsessed with a hobby that it interferes with everything else, then it is a problem, regardless of the particular hobby. Just be careful not to trade one obsession for another.
For me, I tend to get borderline obsessed with one thing for a while, then switch. I had been playing video games in my free time, and now it's mostly magic at the moment :). That being said, I try to ensure I spend time with my wife, and to do other things. Work certainly takes up plenty of time and mental effort ;). I also set aside a certain amount of money each month, and the rest goes to savings. With my free amount I let myself spend what I wish, but cannot go over the monthly amount (for all expenses). Hopefully I won't end up in the same situation you find yourself in, and I certainly hope you find what works best for your life and family. Best of luck to you!
But as posted above, if your not having fun, why continue doing something. These too are rules I live by.
It's nice that everyone's collection has doubled on paper the last little bit, the reality is that it isn't worth the amount we want it to be
In most some cases with some of those, sure. In my son's case I firmly believe that without a self directed drive to read in order to play it would have been a much longer and more stressful road. In a situation like that there is so much resistance and stress due to how difficult the task is for the child, that it is very hard to actually learn something, but when you find a way to engage them on their terms and with an activity that they want to do, then then retention is greater. I hope none of your kids have the same difficulties, but if they do you will find that using something they are self motivated to do and enjoy as the vehicle for improvement is the best way.
My wife also does not play TCGs, and there have been clashes about the game at times that I was not being resonsible and keeping my life balanced, but I corrected things without giving up the game I love. It can be done, though if you choose not to then that's fine too. In 20 years of marriage my wife and I have both learned that there is room for family activities, couple activities, and individual activities...even with two working parents and one severely developmentally delayed child (our youngest). My wife has things she does with her friends, and I have things I do with mine (and our oldest), but there is time for family and romantic activities as well if you communicate and plan well.
Reprint Opt for Modern!!
FREE DIG THOROUGH TIME!
PLAY MORE ROUGE DECKS!
I really enjoy playing this game, and I'm quite competitive, but I'm worried that I'm taking it too far. I have no aspirations to make the Pro Tour or anything (in fact, I wouldn't travel more than a few hours to play Magic because I can't justify spending all that time), but I find I take up way too much of my time thinking about Legacy or Vintage. It's difficult to balance with my responsibilities as a medical student (and I can't fathom how I'll be able to keep up this game once I'm in your position in a few years).
I don't think I'll ever quit the game cold turkey, but I'm thinking of stepping back from the two weekly Legacy events I regularly attend to give myself more time to evaluate how emotionally invested I want to remain in this game. I think there can be a healthy balance, but most competitive players I hang out with (including myself) are probably way past that point.
Legacy
UWR Miracles UWR
GWB Maverick GWB
GB Elves GB
UBR ANT UBR
RG Combo Lands RG
Vintage
BUG BUG Fish BUG
Modern
GBW
Junk PodMagic: the BuylistingI'd recommend to OP to keep his cards and take some time off. Maybe try to find a local playgroup of like minded individuals that you can meet up with and play every now and then, that's what I enjoy the most out of MtG: the game is a great way to spend time with friends. I'm 30, nowhere near as accomplished as OP (I feel diminished honestly!) and finding the time to relax with some friends and play is something I cherish; obviously it might be harder with 5 (!) kids and all that but it's the best way to enjoy the game, IMO, if you don't enjoy playing with the average player.