You missed the point. You implied that you thought magic would be bad for your kids, and I argued that it can be good. I was not saying that it is the only way to teach a person to read or make friends, just that the game can in fact aid in these areas.
I am not saying there aren't some good things about Magic. The basic reason for my decision is that I believe that the bad outweighs the good in my situation. There are some positives to not wearing a seatbelt but when critically evaluated, the positives of wearing a seatbelt outweigh the positives of not wearing one. I am all for maximizing my chances for survival and happiness and for me, I believe quitting Magic will improve my happiness overall.
You expressed some worry about your kids being nerds, as if this will harm them in some way ot make them deficient, whereas I am pointing out that nerd or otherwise your kids have the same access to all the great and essential things about being an adolescent. There is NOTHING inherent in MTG, or any other kind of gaming, that is bad for your kids when you provide responsible parenting. My point is not that MTG is essential, but that it can be part of a healthy and varied adolescent and adult life which includes sports and other physical and social activities. You can't handle MTG in your life due to your proclivities, but there is nothing inherently bad about the game that is not present in any activity that causes a dopamine release in the brain.
I was definitely a nerd growing up (no girlfriends, valedictorian, very shy) and while I actually feel that overall it helped make me a better person (not that I enjoyed being unpopular in school), I should probably give my parents more credit because they were/are excellent (this is me agreeing with you). If my kids choose nerdy things, so what? I just honestly don't think I am being the best parent that I can be by encouraging them to play Magic. My parents always promoted academics, being kind and caring to others, honesty, being active (not necessarily sports and winning, just being active) and healthy eating. They tried to get me into music but visual arts were much more my thing; which they were fine with. They discouraged video games (of course I played anyway and turned out just fine). I had no exposure to comics, RPGs and CCGs as a child. I mostly followed what they taught because kids do what their parents do, not necessarily what their parents say. I want to be the dad that is kind to others, honest, hard-working, paints amazing things, has a successful career, eats his vegetables, knows everything about space and calculus, can still dunk at 40, benches 250 lbs and can amaze others with his dance moves with mom because I want my kids to be like that. Is it possible to do all that AND play Magic? Probably. But I feel that I am not living up to my potential (who ever does?) and that Magic is currently the biggest obstacle to that for me. Are there people for whom playing Magic is a net gain? I honestly think they are probably rare. If you believe you are one of those people, good for you; I'm not.
In most some cases with some of those, sure. In my son's case I firmly believe that without a self directed drive to read in order to play it would have been a much longer and more stressful road. In a situation like that there is so much resistance and stress due to how difficult the task is for the child, that it is very hard to actually learn something, but when you find a way to engage them on their terms and with an activity that they want to do, then then retention is greater. I hope none of your kids have the same difficulties, but if they do you will find that using something they are self motivated to do and enjoy as the vehicle for improvement is the best way.
My wife also does not play TCGs, and there have been clashes about the game at times that I was not being resonsible and keeping my life balanced, but I corrected things without giving up the game I love. It can be done, though if you choose not to then that's fine too. In 20 years of marriage my wife and I have both learned that there is room for family activities, couple activities, and individual activities...even with two working parents and one severely developmentally delayed child (our youngest). My wife has things she does with her friends, and I have things I do with mine (and our oldest), but there is time for family and romantic activities as well if you communicate and plan well.
Thus far we've been able to work through any shortcomings in academics (though it hasn't been anything major) but I definitely agree that when learning is fun, it comes easier and I've seen that with my kids on several occasions.
It sounds like you have a well-balanced life and honestly I don't feel that my life is lacking any of those things and I really am very happy but there is always room for improvement and freeing up more time by not playing Magic should help. My parents had a friend in college whom later became a professor. He decided to log how he spent his time in 15 minute increments for an entire year. He "woke up" to all the time he was wasting and changed his life around. He sold a book based on this experiment and even ended up buying a college and eventually wrote the highest selling college textbook of all time. The point is that we all waste a lot of time and that time is precious. In fact, why am I still writing on this forum? I think Facebook is next on the chopping block too. It definitely seems like you have your life figured out and are in a nice place. I am happy for you. Can't you be happy for me that I am working on improving mine? Why is defending a card game so important to you? You decried my "need for attention" but are giving me more than anyone else on here.
EDIT: I also wanted to say that we canceled our cable 7 years ago. We were DVRing everything and were always "behind on our shows" and wasting so much time on that crap. When we watched real time TV I also felt like I was wasting my time not only with commercials but the shows as well. A movie can tell me a good story and provide good entertainment in 1.5-3 hours. A TV show takes many hours to get a story out of. I watch about 2-4 movies per week and that is the extent of my TV watching.
I've found that playing casual Magic with friends is more fun than playing with and against the same few competitive decks at events. With casual, there's no pressure to win, and I can play with a bunch of fun spells and effects that never make the cut into competitive. Things can still be dynamic and complex with casual Magic with friends, but it's always fun, and rewarding. I guess I have to put the social aspect of the game first.
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EDH/Commander
UBR Sedris RG Omnath, Locus of Rage UB The Scarab God RUG Maelstrom Wanderer WU Dragonlord Ojutai
It seems like you get into things like crazy. A word of caution about thinking of something like the guitar as a harmless side hobby which will replace a destructive/waste of time hobby/non-social with the family hobby like MTG. You can get crazy with the guitar (I've seen it with my dad): buying more and more equipment to get "the perfect tone" or practicing scales and songs over and over and over and over until you get them just right. Trust me on this one, it is not a very social hobby, nobody practices an instrument with other people. It is something you do alone (no distractions) and often. So don't think that MTG, being an ultra competitive game, is necessarily the source of your trouble, it could be your competitive nature, and replacing one hobby for another may not fix what you're looking at fixing (from what I gather: more time with the fam, less time feeling bad about what you're doing). I'm not saying don't get into learning the guitar, but that it can be competitive for some people.
PS: Please build a cube (even if its Peasant or Pauper), then you can treat MTG as a board game. Something with a high level of variance and strategy, that you play for a night with friends or family and then shelve it until the next "board game night".
essentially blaming a hobby for "wasting time", exactly what a hobby is supposed to "do", is, in my eyes - a fallacy.
I would say it depends on how much time that hobby is wasting. Now one could argue that it's up to the participant to decide how much time to spend on a hobby but some hobbies lend themselves better to different time constraints. For example... playing WOW seems to require a more dedicated amount of "time wasting" than a game like..... Call of Duty. Competitive MTG requires a lot more time than playing the occasional board game.
It can be hard for someone that has been in the competitive scene to drop to kitchen table casual.
I was not competing really at all but I was always preparing for such for no reason, really. Most of my play with others was casual with EDH, casual Legacy, cube, draft, etc. This was not the problem and took up very little of my time. The issue was watching tournaments, testing decks, thinking about decks, tweaking decks, etc with no concrete plan/opportunity to play competitively. It sounds weird to me now but that is what I was doing. *shrugs* Maybe I only need to put away thoughts/cards of competitive Magic but I'm not really sure I can do that or that I want to do that.
I won't actively discourage my kids from playing Magic but I also won't actively encourage it or have it be our primary source of bonding.
Thanks again for all the great responses, supportive or otherwise.
Necro here. I can't believe that it has been almost 2 years since I posted this. I really did quit Magic when I posted this and have mostly not looked back. I have played about 3 times in the past 2 years, just casual EDH at my house with friends or my kids. I ran into a Magic acquaintance and he was telling me about the "Eldrazi Menace" so I started looking up some things online and started thinking about Magic again. I Googled this thread because I wanted to reaffirm why I left the game and make sure I didn't go back because life has been better without it. I read and do active things more with my kids. My relationship with my wife is markedly improved and we are both in better shape and happier. I am too busy at work but that is good overall. The guitar still sits in my basement, unplayed. I still haven't put up that basketball hoop. I have been working out more. I made my hobby console video games for a time but that was also too much so I quit those too. I have two new hobbies now. The first is cooking. We have groups of people over and I make big meals and I really enjoy the conversation, the compliments and of course, the food. The second is collecting arcade and pinball games. It is far less time consuming (though more space consuming) than Magic and easier to get others involved in (everyone knows how to play Pac-Man, pinball and Dance Dance Revolution). It is just as (more?) expensive, however. Speaking of that, I sold my Power Nine for $7000 to buy my first few arcade games but otherwise have all of my other competitive cards in storage and my casual decks easily accessible in case someone comes over and wants to play. I will admit that I may return to the game again someday (undoubtedly to Legacy and/or EDH) but for now, I am quite content with my life the way it is with Magic mostly a memory. Why should you care? You probably shouldn't. Why post this? Maybe because I knew some day (2018?) I'd need another reminder. Thanks for letting it take up some space in your forum. I wish you all the best.
I'm so glad you bumped this. Very glad to hear that you're doing well now. I'm a relatively new player but am nearing the pivotal moment that you once were two years ago, although more about coming to grips with an addiction. There's a funny thing about the way these obsessions start. They happen so gradually that it's not until you have a certain moment that it hits you how far you've come.
When I first started in October, I scoffed at the idea of ever paying more than $3 for a card. This was just a casual card game I played with my bandmates from time to time. However, being ok with spending $2 becomes being ok with $3. Being ok with $3 becomes being ok with $5. By November, I was dropping $10 each on a playset of Heritage Druids. By December I was dropping $25 each on a playset of Æther Vials thinking of them as an "investment" in any creature deck I may want to play. By January I was putting together all the necessary pieces for a full Tron deck. By March, I couldn't stop until I had a full playset of each fetch land in standard with the possibility that I'll regret not getting them now before they hit Zendikar prices at $60-$90 a piece. Here I am now in April, after an unprecedented financial emergency, still trying to find a way to finance the remainder of my legacy deck, still unable to sell any of the other decks that I've proudly assembled these last few months. Any sane person from the outside looking in can say that we're completely nuts for spending so much on cardboard but they wouldn't know until they've been through the process. It sneaks up on you and left unchecked, can turn into a complete monster. I assume this is the way that people get addicted drugs. That "just a little bit more" mindset that allows them to push and push each time.
With any hobby, I feel it has potential to go out of control. For Magic specific addiction, here are some more things that I've noticed.
1. There's a fear of missing out. It's easy become obsessed with watching the markets. For some, there's that fear of not buying a certain card before it spikes, "just in case I'll need it later" which can fuel some pretty nasty hoarding habits. For new sets, you want to be the first one to make sure you get your playsets of the best cards from the new set so you don't miss out like when Jace, Vryn's Prodigy was only $15 a piece.
2. You can't stop until you've completed something. When I want to build a deck, I want it done now. When I spend money on cards for a deck, that's money that I've essentially "wasted" if the deck is still incomplete or unplayable. I've just got to bite the bullet and spend the rest to finish it.
3. These cycles repeat. You've finished a new set so there's always a "now what?" Well, I guess I can start building a deck around those other staples I have laying around. Oh look, another set is about to drop in a month. Better jump on some of those too. Rinse, repeat.
4. Sometimes, you're just the kind of person that will stop at nothing to be the best at Magic. I'm not that kind of person. I don't care if someone beats my $300 deck with their $25 deck. I can lose gracefully and appreciate when I've been genuinely outplayed. Some people aren't. Some people may channel their frustrations about shortcomings in other aspects of their life through competitive Magic playing. Maybe they hate their jobs. Maybe they struggle with dating. Maybe they feel like they're not good at anything else. When these kinds of people lose, their egos take a blow because maybe being great at Magic is all the solace they have for the time being. I've met people like this and feel kind of bad because they're so easy to hate.
Anyway, this is the dark side I've taken away from the game. If I could've done it differently, I'd have spent less time on the internet looking at Magic cards by myself and would only have whipped them out when my friends wanted a quick match. Now here I am sitting on 10 decks, 8 of which could crush both friends' decks combined, possibly more than $2000 spent in a mere 6 months. It stopped becoming fun when I realized I couldn't control my spending anymore.
Edit: Also, get off your butt and start playing that strat! Get yourself a good amp, get that baby a nice setup, and learn a few basic chords. Learning an instrument hobby that, if you don't get sucked into a gear purchasing obsession like I did, can be infinitely rewarding. There's no satisfaction quite like taking songs you've liked for all the years and being able to produce it with just your own voice and a guitar. Also there's a certain euphoria in playing to a crowd that's very visibly into what you're playing.
I disagree Pantic. You act as though it's impossible to stop completely going to tournaments and such. Well I haven't been to a tournament since September/when I quit. Do I get the urge? Not particularly and I was deep in the game for 7 years straight with a collection worth over 20 grand consisting of FBB dual lands, power 9, vintage foils, and an addiction to storm combo. It is possible to quit for good. Game is far too time consuming and money consuming for the amount of joy it brings. Not to mention I hate the direction the game is going in terms of prices and card sets. WotC as a company is run quite poorly with the actions that they take.
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"Yawgmoth," Freyalise whispered as she set the bomb, "now you will pay for your treachery."
Sincerely, Magic really isn't that good of a game.
If you don't have friends who play and you love to play the game with them, have a supportive playgroup that makes playing fun and exiting, or are a uber spike that is actually seeing constant rewards from the game, it doesn't threat you any better than a videogame where most NPCs are ********s and it's 10x more expensive than current gen veegees.
I do enjoy it because I do have a bunch of friends with whom I organize legacy tournaments, and a great commander playgroup. But I can easily see why someone would give this ***** up.
I agree with 2 very important points here: the fear of missing out. How many times will you jump on the hype train just out of fear of being left behind, even if it's for cards you'll maybe never use? Also, price inflation is a thing. People will get used to pay 5-15€ for recent uncommon cards and this will become the norm, leading to an accepted price inflation. 50€ for a playset of Inquisition of Kozilek? Please.
My advice: Learn the joys of casually drafting random junk cards with your friends. Don't buy another card ever again. Trade away your cards once you get bored of them, preferably boxes at a time. Maybe your wife and kids would even enjoy that. It's just a silly card game, not high-stakes poker or professional sports.
I've come to know the obsession Magic creates myself.
There was a time when I wouldn't pay five dollars for a piece of cardboard. Fast forward and suddenly I'm willing to drop 170$+ on a playset of Thune or 280$+ on a playset of Collector's Edition, and I only play in very Casual circles. It hit me a week or so ago that even though I play Magic once a week with my friends for several hours, the obscene amount of money I was spending felt like an utter waste. Sure, I got me some fantastic cards and all, but eventually I'd start to feel that twinged of regret sink in.
I enjoy Magic primarily for the art, story and lore of the game. Playing with friends is fun, and winning is always boss, but ultimately the secondary aspects I feel are taking a toll on my psyche. I've built some great decks that I love, but the sheer investment of money required has made me take a double-look at what the hobby is costing me elsewhere in my life. Yes, I don't need to buy cards like this or that in order to succeed at Magic or even to have fun. However I feel that the exclusive nature of those high priced, powerful cards creates a psychological trap that sucks you in and dries you out. Sure, sure I could play Pauper. But then again I could just binge on something expensive and know my odds of dominating a game have sky-rocketed.
So with all that in mind, I'm taking a break from Magic myself. I'll keep the cards I have, though I recently sold a playset for some decent change, and just play with the cards I have at the moment. My goal is to resist all urges to purchase Magic cards for at least a year. Spend that money elsewhere on things I love that don't cost a arm 'n' leg. Curse of Strahd was recently released for D&D5E, defiantly need to get my hands on that. Plus Pathfinder has some new material out I've been meaning to look at, like Occult Adventures. The price of those books often equals a deck of Pauper cards, plus I love perusing through them when their not in the use. Eh, I'll figure something out. Magic, as it stands, beat me over the head with its obsession stick - it's time to beat back!
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P.S. Even though this is a Necrothread, I'm really glad someone dug it up. Loved reading it all!
The problem with the magic players right now is that they are like this guy. You cant play at FNM because it is full of obsessed people who are too competitive.
Haha, hope you didn't mean me! I don't play FNM, ever. Only Casual. And it isn't an issue of competitiveness, at least not on my end. Why settle for jank when you can have gold? I may be a casual player, but I know the difference between terrible and fantastic.
I have a hard time believing that the price of the secondary market is the result of Casual Play.
Hi, it is your decision and it is an understandable one, just my two cents though: Don't sell your cards, even if you don't ever decide to come back playing don't sell them, why? Because since you are a physician, a profession which should get you a fair amount of income, 30 grand is not what is going to change your life, yeah you could spend it all in something fun but then what? It will all be consumed soon and you'll be left with no cards. Also, you should not have real problems with money in your future (again, physician), so just keep your cards in a safe place where they will be preserved (I advise you to buy acid free, pvc free sleeves for all of them, what is a little bit more investment at this point? They will help preserve your collection from the damages of time). After that, seal your box storage shut and forget about the game, no point in keep thinking about the game if you want to be free of it.
Another good thing about not selling your cards: You may be feeling that you can't conciliate your life with magic in a healthy manner now, and that may well be true, but that doesn't mean that in 10 or 15, or even 20 years from now you won't be able to do so, maybe your management of time and perspectives might change, and by then you'll be glad to have your old set of cards with you, even if they were worth "just" $1000. It is also something you might have to show to your grandsons and maybe even teach them the game and have a pastime with them. One example from my life: Many years ago when I was playing in Lorwyn FNM (I quit and just recently got back into the game), there was a retired engineer (I believe he was an engineer not sure) who would play at FNM and have a lot of fun with MTG, that could happen with you, maybe yes, maybe not, you never know. Whatever you decide, good luck!
**EDIT** Just realized this was a necro thread from a couple of years ago LOL! Anyway, I'll leave my comment, but it sounds like you've found a good place in your life and you're happy with your decisions, so good for you! Keep it up!
I agree with what you (TRAMD) have decided and what others have stated in the comments...for now, don't sell your cards. You never know when you'll decide you want to play again, or even if you never do, your children might one day become interested. It's much cooler to be able to pull those boxes out of storage and show people what you have than to just say "Back in my day, I owned XYZ." If they ever get into Magic, you'll have an amazing collection to play and build with with them, or to gift to them if you're still not interested.
As has also been said, it might be fun to build a cube from what you own and put the rest in storage. Then if the right people come along or you find yourself in the right environment, you could have a draft and enjoy your collection again. That's actually what I've done recently. I started playing / collecting in the Unlimited / Revised era and just got back into the game a couple of years ago. I never had a collection worth money like yours, but I had fun stuff that I put in a big box at my parents house when I stopped playing. When I was visiting a year or so ago, I dug up the box and pulled 1ea of all white border cards I owned, added to it over a few months, and built myself a fun little old school cube.
And barring some significant changes, your collection will likely only increase in value over time. Good luck with your decision. I hope it's the right one for you, and if you tuck your cards away for now, you can always change your mind in the future.
I'm so glad you bumped this...
1. There's a fear of missing out...
2. You can't stop until you've completed something. ...
3. These cycles repeat. ...
4. Sometimes, you're just the kind of person that will stop at nothing to be the best at Magic. ...
Edit: Also, get off your butt and start playing that strat!...
I'm glad you're glad.
Your numbered items are all great
HAHA! I should learn from my dad for some father-son time
...Curse of Strahd was recently released for D&D5E, defiantly need to get my hands on that. Plus Pathfinder has some new material out I've been meaning to look at, like Occult Adventures. The price of those books often equals a deck of Pauper cards, plus I love perusing through them when their not in the use. Eh, I'll figure something out. Magic, as it stands, beat me over the head with its obsession stick - it's time to beat back!
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P.S. Even though this is a Necrothread, I'm really glad someone dug it up. Loved reading it all!
I loved D&D before I loved Magic and my kids enjoy it too. We don't play much but it is fun when we do.
I necroed it.
I agree with what you (TRAMD) have decided and what others have stated in the comments...for now, don't sell your cards...
As has also been said, it might be fun to build a cube from what you own and put the rest in storage...
Again, not selling the rest of my cards.
I don't really enjoy limited, I am a constructed guy all the way.
Why 102 reply...
The guy got 5 kids and a business, i'm just surprise you even consider having time for that... best case just bring out your cards once in a while with friends at home and play casual
Just keep your favorite Legacy deck, it is the format you enjoy the most, and sell the rest.
Play a tournament or some games once in a while and don't be obsessed over a card game. I do the same, I have my favorite deck and go to a FNM once or twice a month this way it stays fun for me. When I get bummed out by the game I just don't touch it for a couple weeks and then I will get the feeling back and start playing again.
The rest of my hobby time goes into training MMA so I got a nice hobby outside from playing a card game.
Just remember it is just a card game and there are a lot more important things in life.
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Legacy - Reanimator
Modern - Burn
EDH - Neheb the Eternal
I agree with what you (TRAMD) have decided and what others have stated in the comments...for now, don't sell your cards...
As has also been said, it might be fun to build a cube from what you own and put the rest in storage...
Again, not selling the rest of my cards.
I don't really enjoy limited, I am a constructed guy all the way.
Yeah, I didn't realize it was a necro until after I posted. Glad you're enjoying life. That's what's important
I've also very much downsized my collection and here's why:
1. The game as a whole stopped appealing to me. The only competitive format I really enjoyed (and still do) is Legacy. I feel that standard and modern are too watered down for the price point they command and I don't have the attention span for EDH (I've been in games that took hours, blah). I could go on about why I don't like the other formats but suffice to say Legacy was the only one that grabbed me once I started. It felt, and still feels, like the very best experience. Which lead me to...
2. My city just doesn't support Legacy like it used to. I would play every so often at Cons and would even drive to other cities to play my favourite format (this continued for years) but even those have dried up in favour of modern. Legacy just doesn't fire anymore which lead me to...
3. Try to promote Legacy locally. This is where the community really surprised me with its negativity. Sure I expected a few "no thanks" or even dead silence from the local social media but I didn't get that. Instead I got "Legacy's a dead format", "it's too expensive", "Legacy's dying", and my favourite "how dare you discuss budget options, you just want me to play a bad deck." I would have preferred dead silence rather than subjective reasons why Legacy is bad but whatever. Finally we did get a tournament set up and attendance was great at first but after a week or so players would drift away to play the competitive, Wizards supported formats. It's as if non-supported formats weren't worth the community's time. I don't blame them, everyone has their own reasons for playing but the initial reaction followed by the now non-existent scene was really discouraging. It was then that I realized that I didn't really have many true friends through this game and most people just use it as a vector to become better at the game itself. That's not to say I didn't meet any lifelong friends through Magic but those friends have been there from the moment I began playing casually and are still casual, chill guys that I associate with now (you know who you are :)).
4. I then had a bunch of cards worth a few grand just sitting there so, after some soul searching, I sold most of it. I kept my 2 favourite Legacy decks as well as my Cube (I still love the Cube and I'm pretty sure it contains pieces of mine and my friend's souls :P) but after 3 months now I've never looked back. Sure I still frequent this site for Cube opinions, to follow the drama that seems to be inherent to the game now (judge drama, gender drama, pros' cyber bullying, Wizard's general incompetence, man there's a lot), and to check price drama (another reason I didn't get into modern, nothing seems stable anymore) but that doesn't take up much time.
I still play other games and funny enough I got back into Pokemon cards (which is a blast right now for many reasons for both me and my awesome gf, check out my youtube channel Expert Occultist :)) but I've never missed the competitive Magic scene. I of course still have my 2 Legacy decks for the inevitable yearly Legacy tournament but I agree with many posters here; after downsizing I feel a huge weight has lifted from me now that I don't have to worry about staying current, buying before prices surge, and dealing with those who just see me as an opponent. I guess you could just say that the game got too Modern for me
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"Listen closely as your radio plays
a program of a slightly different strain.
Tonight my listeners, a new power will rise,
unleashed upon you all in this musical disguise.
Your cities turn to ash, for the broadcast is cursed.
The signal is peaking and can't be reversed.
If you choose my children, you can try to hide.
But I strongly suggest you run for your life."
-The Sermon 2, The Creepshow
Did it ever occur to you that neither cockatrice nor tournaments existed back when Magic was first printed? Did you ever think about maybe playing it with a small group of friends like God intended, occasionally dueling random strangers just to see what crazy new deck they might have that you've never seen before? Suddenly, it won't seem like such a waste of your time.
First I want to applaud you for taking such a step back and reassessing some of the things in life, it isn't easy to do, and as a psychotherapist I think that whatever path you choose from her forward will be well served by your ability to stop, think, and more importantly take a walk in your wife and children's shoes. I do feel like on some level, and I may be saying this more for soothing my own dissonance about the time spent playing magic than yours, that there is some middle ground. It too at times has impacted other parts of my life that I hold dear, my wife, rock climbing (my first sporting love), even my career (as I type this on MTGSalvation with my ignored dissertation open in the background). But that being said I try to make it as social as possible. Granted its different for me than it seems for you, in that I got into magic from a close group of climbing friends as a fun saturday night activity, and have tried to keep it that way as much as possible. Outside of MTGS and youtube I only play once, maybe 2x a week, only in person, and only in tournaments if I'm making a night of it with my friends. I find this helps to keep the thirst at bay, give me something to look forward too, and help compartmentalize it within my non-magic activities and relationships. Not perfect, but manageable.
This pretty much sums up what I do with MTG now. I used to try and play online all the time on Cockatrice and MTGO but I just never enjoyed it. I want to get better at MTG but with a family and a full time career it is hard. The only time I do play online now is if I am going to a comp REL event and want to practice some more besides just FNM.
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Be sure to check out my podcast, Magic with Zuby! Your resource for all things Magic the Gathering!
I can sympathize. I was like this with Poker. I supported myself through law school with poker. Then when I became a lawyer I didn't have enough time to do it well. Poker is even more "all-in" than Magic. If you are one of the best then you can make thousands of dollars and if you aren't then you lose thousands of dollars. I realized I couldn't devote enough time to poker while also being a lawyer so it wasn't profitable and it stopped being fun.
Isn't it a shame that the better we get at something the less pleasure we derive from it because it isn't new? Lots of things are like this.
I wouldn't advise quitting though. Over the years I've had countless people tell me they were quitting either Magic or poker and they always came back. I can surely understand quitting COMPETITIVE magic. Competitive Magic to me never made sense anyway. The payoffs are so low compared to poker and the cost is so high.
But I don't know a single person, lawyer or otherwise, who doesn't spend a few hours a week at a hobby. Sadly for many people their only hobby is TV. Personally, I would rather spend that time playing Magic. I play Magic almost every day and I haven't spent a dime since 2010. How? I play PRE. The prizes are only a couple bucks but entry is fee. I then parlay those winnings into Pauper, particularly now that leagues are back. I'm about a 70% win rate in league which I then parlay into drafting Cube when it's open. I found Magic Online is a really good outlet. I think Magic as a collectible card game is awesome. The flavor, the stories, etc. Magic as a competitive game is TERRIBLE. The cost to entry is high, the payouts are low, the competition is too good to squeeze too much EV. My recommendation is taking up Pauper on MTGO. Low stress but you can still use it as an outlet for your competitive streak. Great format because the competition is strong but the barrier to entry is low.
I think just keep a balance between everything is the best thing could be done.
I usually never play super competitively, but sometimes I do.
Yeah but sometimes it is going to hit me very hard with the cards I have, imagine if I sold my cards I could be traveling to 10 country in a role, or buy bunch of other amazing things.
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Modern: Humans
EDH: Xenagos, God of Revels.
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I am not saying there aren't some good things about Magic. The basic reason for my decision is that I believe that the bad outweighs the good in my situation. There are some positives to not wearing a seatbelt but when critically evaluated, the positives of wearing a seatbelt outweigh the positives of not wearing one. I am all for maximizing my chances for survival and happiness and for me, I believe quitting Magic will improve my happiness overall.
I was definitely a nerd growing up (no girlfriends, valedictorian, very shy) and while I actually feel that overall it helped make me a better person (not that I enjoyed being unpopular in school), I should probably give my parents more credit because they were/are excellent (this is me agreeing with you). If my kids choose nerdy things, so what? I just honestly don't think I am being the best parent that I can be by encouraging them to play Magic. My parents always promoted academics, being kind and caring to others, honesty, being active (not necessarily sports and winning, just being active) and healthy eating. They tried to get me into music but visual arts were much more my thing; which they were fine with. They discouraged video games (of course I played anyway and turned out just fine). I had no exposure to comics, RPGs and CCGs as a child. I mostly followed what they taught because kids do what their parents do, not necessarily what their parents say. I want to be the dad that is kind to others, honest, hard-working, paints amazing things, has a successful career, eats his vegetables, knows everything about space and calculus, can still dunk at 40, benches 250 lbs and can amaze others with his dance moves with mom because I want my kids to be like that. Is it possible to do all that AND play Magic? Probably. But I feel that I am not living up to my potential (who ever does?) and that Magic is currently the biggest obstacle to that for me. Are there people for whom playing Magic is a net gain? I honestly think they are probably rare. If you believe you are one of those people, good for you; I'm not.
Thus far we've been able to work through any shortcomings in academics (though it hasn't been anything major) but I definitely agree that when learning is fun, it comes easier and I've seen that with my kids on several occasions.
It sounds like you have a well-balanced life and honestly I don't feel that my life is lacking any of those things and I really am very happy but there is always room for improvement and freeing up more time by not playing Magic should help. My parents had a friend in college whom later became a professor. He decided to log how he spent his time in 15 minute increments for an entire year. He "woke up" to all the time he was wasting and changed his life around. He sold a book based on this experiment and even ended up buying a college and eventually wrote the highest selling college textbook of all time. The point is that we all waste a lot of time and that time is precious. In fact, why am I still writing on this forum? I think Facebook is next on the chopping block too. It definitely seems like you have your life figured out and are in a nice place. I am happy for you. Can't you be happy for me that I am working on improving mine? Why is defending a card game so important to you? You decried my "need for attention" but are giving me more than anyone else on here.
EDIT: I also wanted to say that we canceled our cable 7 years ago. We were DVRing everything and were always "behind on our shows" and wasting so much time on that crap. When we watched real time TV I also felt like I was wasting my time not only with commercials but the shows as well. A movie can tell me a good story and provide good entertainment in 1.5-3 hours. A TV show takes many hours to get a story out of. I watch about 2-4 movies per week and that is the extent of my TV watching.
Standard: UWR
Modern: RDW, Twin
Legacy: I am 3 Candelabra of Tawnos from being able to build almost any tier 1 or 1.5 deck. Here are the ones I care about right now:
-Aggro: UWR/RUB/WUB/RUG/UR Delver; Affinity; Burn
-Control: Stoneblade; UWr Miracles; UB Tezzeret
-Combo: Hive Mind; Combo Elves; Omni Tell; T.E.S.
Vintage: Grixis Painter
EDH: Rith, the Awakener
UBR Sedris
RG Omnath, Locus of Rage
UB The Scarab God
RUG Maelstrom Wanderer
WU Dragonlord Ojutai
It seems like you get into things like crazy. A word of caution about thinking of something like the guitar as a harmless side hobby which will replace a destructive/waste of time hobby/non-social with the family hobby like MTG. You can get crazy with the guitar (I've seen it with my dad): buying more and more equipment to get "the perfect tone" or practicing scales and songs over and over and over and over until you get them just right. Trust me on this one, it is not a very social hobby, nobody practices an instrument with other people. It is something you do alone (no distractions) and often. So don't think that MTG, being an ultra competitive game, is necessarily the source of your trouble, it could be your competitive nature, and replacing one hobby for another may not fix what you're looking at fixing (from what I gather: more time with the fam, less time feeling bad about what you're doing). I'm not saying don't get into learning the guitar, but that it can be competitive for some people.
PS: Please build a cube (even if its Peasant or Pauper), then you can treat MTG as a board game. Something with a high level of variance and strategy, that you play for a night with friends or family and then shelve it until the next "board game night".
I would say it depends on how much time that hobby is wasting. Now one could argue that it's up to the participant to decide how much time to spend on a hobby but some hobbies lend themselves better to different time constraints. For example... playing WOW seems to require a more dedicated amount of "time wasting" than a game like..... Call of Duty. Competitive MTG requires a lot more time than playing the occasional board game.
It can be hard for someone that has been in the competitive scene to drop to kitchen table casual.
I won't actively discourage my kids from playing Magic but I also won't actively encourage it or have it be our primary source of bonding.
Thanks again for all the great responses, supportive or otherwise.
Standard: UWR
Modern: RDW, Twin
Legacy: I am 3 Candelabra of Tawnos from being able to build almost any tier 1 or 1.5 deck. Here are the ones I care about right now:
-Aggro: UWR/RUB/WUB/RUG/UR Delver; Affinity; Burn
-Control: Stoneblade; UWr Miracles; UB Tezzeret
-Combo: Hive Mind; Combo Elves; Omni Tell; T.E.S.
Vintage: Grixis Painter
EDH: Rith, the Awakener
Standard: UWR
Modern: RDW, Twin
Legacy: I am 3 Candelabra of Tawnos from being able to build almost any tier 1 or 1.5 deck. Here are the ones I care about right now:
-Aggro: UWR/RUB/WUB/RUG/UR Delver; Affinity; Burn
-Control: Stoneblade; UWr Miracles; UB Tezzeret
-Combo: Hive Mind; Combo Elves; Omni Tell; T.E.S.
Vintage: Grixis Painter
EDH: Rith, the Awakener
When I first started in October, I scoffed at the idea of ever paying more than $3 for a card. This was just a casual card game I played with my bandmates from time to time. However, being ok with spending $2 becomes being ok with $3. Being ok with $3 becomes being ok with $5. By November, I was dropping $10 each on a playset of Heritage Druids. By December I was dropping $25 each on a playset of Æther Vials thinking of them as an "investment" in any creature deck I may want to play. By January I was putting together all the necessary pieces for a full Tron deck. By March, I couldn't stop until I had a full playset of each fetch land in standard with the possibility that I'll regret not getting them now before they hit Zendikar prices at $60-$90 a piece. Here I am now in April, after an unprecedented financial emergency, still trying to find a way to finance the remainder of my legacy deck, still unable to sell any of the other decks that I've proudly assembled these last few months. Any sane person from the outside looking in can say that we're completely nuts for spending so much on cardboard but they wouldn't know until they've been through the process. It sneaks up on you and left unchecked, can turn into a complete monster. I assume this is the way that people get addicted drugs. That "just a little bit more" mindset that allows them to push and push each time.
With any hobby, I feel it has potential to go out of control. For Magic specific addiction, here are some more things that I've noticed.
1. There's a fear of missing out. It's easy become obsessed with watching the markets. For some, there's that fear of not buying a certain card before it spikes, "just in case I'll need it later" which can fuel some pretty nasty hoarding habits. For new sets, you want to be the first one to make sure you get your playsets of the best cards from the new set so you don't miss out like when Jace, Vryn's Prodigy was only $15 a piece.
2. You can't stop until you've completed something. When I want to build a deck, I want it done now. When I spend money on cards for a deck, that's money that I've essentially "wasted" if the deck is still incomplete or unplayable. I've just got to bite the bullet and spend the rest to finish it.
3. These cycles repeat. You've finished a new set so there's always a "now what?" Well, I guess I can start building a deck around those other staples I have laying around. Oh look, another set is about to drop in a month. Better jump on some of those too. Rinse, repeat.
4. Sometimes, you're just the kind of person that will stop at nothing to be the best at Magic. I'm not that kind of person. I don't care if someone beats my $300 deck with their $25 deck. I can lose gracefully and appreciate when I've been genuinely outplayed. Some people aren't. Some people may channel their frustrations about shortcomings in other aspects of their life through competitive Magic playing. Maybe they hate their jobs. Maybe they struggle with dating. Maybe they feel like they're not good at anything else. When these kinds of people lose, their egos take a blow because maybe being great at Magic is all the solace they have for the time being. I've met people like this and feel kind of bad because they're so easy to hate.
Anyway, this is the dark side I've taken away from the game. If I could've done it differently, I'd have spent less time on the internet looking at Magic cards by myself and would only have whipped them out when my friends wanted a quick match. Now here I am sitting on 10 decks, 8 of which could crush both friends' decks combined, possibly more than $2000 spent in a mere 6 months. It stopped becoming fun when I realized I couldn't control my spending anymore.
Edit: Also, get off your butt and start playing that strat! Get yourself a good amp, get that baby a nice setup, and learn a few basic chords. Learning an instrument hobby that, if you don't get sucked into a gear purchasing obsession like I did, can be infinitely rewarding. There's no satisfaction quite like taking songs you've liked for all the years and being able to produce it with just your own voice and a guitar. Also there's a certain euphoria in playing to a crowd that's very visibly into what you're playing.
Currently Playing:
Retired
If you don't have friends who play and you love to play the game with them, have a supportive playgroup that makes playing fun and exiting, or are a uber spike that is actually seeing constant rewards from the game, it doesn't threat you any better than a videogame where most NPCs are ********s and it's 10x more expensive than current gen veegees.
I do enjoy it because I do have a bunch of friends with whom I organize legacy tournaments, and a great commander playgroup. But I can easily see why someone would give this ***** up.
I agree with 2 very important points here: the fear of missing out. How many times will you jump on the hype train just out of fear of being left behind, even if it's for cards you'll maybe never use? Also, price inflation is a thing. People will get used to pay 5-15€ for recent uncommon cards and this will become the norm, leading to an accepted price inflation. 50€ for a playset of Inquisition of Kozilek? Please.
sounds like a typical comment you would hear at a magic tournament, to be fair
.
There was a time when I wouldn't pay five dollars for a piece of cardboard. Fast forward and suddenly I'm willing to drop 170$+ on a playset of Thune or 280$+ on a playset of Collector's Edition, and I only play in very Casual circles. It hit me a week or so ago that even though I play Magic once a week with my friends for several hours, the obscene amount of money I was spending felt like an utter waste. Sure, I got me some fantastic cards and all, but eventually I'd start to feel that twinged of regret sink in.
I enjoy Magic primarily for the art, story and lore of the game. Playing with friends is fun, and winning is always boss, but ultimately the secondary aspects I feel are taking a toll on my psyche. I've built some great decks that I love, but the sheer investment of money required has made me take a double-look at what the hobby is costing me elsewhere in my life. Yes, I don't need to buy cards like this or that in order to succeed at Magic or even to have fun. However I feel that the exclusive nature of those high priced, powerful cards creates a psychological trap that sucks you in and dries you out. Sure, sure I could play Pauper. But then again I could just binge on something expensive and know my odds of dominating a game have sky-rocketed.
So with all that in mind, I'm taking a break from Magic myself. I'll keep the cards I have, though I recently sold a playset for some decent change, and just play with the cards I have at the moment. My goal is to resist all urges to purchase Magic cards for at least a year. Spend that money elsewhere on things I love that don't cost a arm 'n' leg. Curse of Strahd was recently released for D&D5E, defiantly need to get my hands on that. Plus Pathfinder has some new material out I've been meaning to look at, like Occult Adventures. The price of those books often equals a deck of Pauper cards, plus I love perusing through them when their not in the use. Eh, I'll figure something out. Magic, as it stands, beat me over the head with its obsession stick - it's time to beat back!
---
P.S. Even though this is a Necrothread, I'm really glad someone dug it up. Loved reading it all!
I have a hard time believing that the price of the secondary market is the result of Casual Play.
Another good thing about not selling your cards: You may be feeling that you can't conciliate your life with magic in a healthy manner now, and that may well be true, but that doesn't mean that in 10 or 15, or even 20 years from now you won't be able to do so, maybe your management of time and perspectives might change, and by then you'll be glad to have your old set of cards with you, even if they were worth "just" $1000. It is also something you might have to show to your grandsons and maybe even teach them the game and have a pastime with them. One example from my life: Many years ago when I was playing in Lorwyn FNM (I quit and just recently got back into the game), there was a retired engineer (I believe he was an engineer not sure) who would play at FNM and have a lot of fun with MTG, that could happen with you, maybe yes, maybe not, you never know. Whatever you decide, good luck!
I agree with what you (TRAMD) have decided and what others have stated in the comments...for now, don't sell your cards. You never know when you'll decide you want to play again, or even if you never do, your children might one day become interested. It's much cooler to be able to pull those boxes out of storage and show people what you have than to just say "Back in my day, I owned XYZ." If they ever get into Magic, you'll have an amazing collection to play and build with with them, or to gift to them if you're still not interested.
As has also been said, it might be fun to build a cube from what you own and put the rest in storage. Then if the right people come along or you find yourself in the right environment, you could have a draft and enjoy your collection again. That's actually what I've done recently. I started playing / collecting in the Unlimited / Revised era and just got back into the game a couple of years ago. I never had a collection worth money like yours, but I had fun stuff that I put in a big box at my parents house when I stopped playing. When I was visiting a year or so ago, I dug up the box and pulled 1ea of all white border cards I owned, added to it over a few months, and built myself a fun little old school cube.
And barring some significant changes, your collection will likely only increase in value over time. Good luck with your decision. I hope it's the right one for you, and if you tuck your cards away for now, you can always change your mind in the future.
I'm glad you're glad.
Your numbered items are all great
HAHA! I should learn from my dad for some father-son time
But it is! That is part of the problem. It just isn't as good as life!
I loved D&D before I loved Magic and my kids enjoy it too. We don't play much but it is fun when we do.
I necroed it.
What guy? Me?
I sold my Power 9 but am not selling my Legacy cards. I love the format and don't need the money.
Again, not selling the rest of my cards.
I don't really enjoy limited, I am a constructed guy all the way.
Standard: UWR
Modern: RDW, Twin
Legacy: I am 3 Candelabra of Tawnos from being able to build almost any tier 1 or 1.5 deck. Here are the ones I care about right now:
-Aggro: UWR/RUB/WUB/RUG/UR Delver; Affinity; Burn
-Control: Stoneblade; UWr Miracles; UB Tezzeret
-Combo: Hive Mind; Combo Elves; Omni Tell; T.E.S.
Vintage: Grixis Painter
EDH: Rith, the Awakener
The guy got 5 kids and a business, i'm just surprise you even consider having time for that... best case just bring out your cards once in a while with friends at home and play casual
Play a tournament or some games once in a while and don't be obsessed over a card game. I do the same, I have my favorite deck and go to a FNM once or twice a month this way it stays fun for me. When I get bummed out by the game I just don't touch it for a couple weeks and then I will get the feeling back and start playing again.
The rest of my hobby time goes into training MMA so I got a nice hobby outside from playing a card game.
Just remember it is just a card game and there are a lot more important things in life.
Modern - Burn
EDH - Neheb the Eternal
Yeah, I didn't realize it was a necro until after I posted. Glad you're enjoying life. That's what's important
1. The game as a whole stopped appealing to me. The only competitive format I really enjoyed (and still do) is Legacy. I feel that standard and modern are too watered down for the price point they command and I don't have the attention span for EDH (I've been in games that took hours, blah). I could go on about why I don't like the other formats but suffice to say Legacy was the only one that grabbed me once I started. It felt, and still feels, like the very best experience. Which lead me to...
2. My city just doesn't support Legacy like it used to. I would play every so often at Cons and would even drive to other cities to play my favourite format (this continued for years) but even those have dried up in favour of modern. Legacy just doesn't fire anymore which lead me to...
3. Try to promote Legacy locally. This is where the community really surprised me with its negativity. Sure I expected a few "no thanks" or even dead silence from the local social media but I didn't get that. Instead I got "Legacy's a dead format", "it's too expensive", "Legacy's dying", and my favourite "how dare you discuss budget options, you just want me to play a bad deck." I would have preferred dead silence rather than subjective reasons why Legacy is bad but whatever. Finally we did get a tournament set up and attendance was great at first but after a week or so players would drift away to play the competitive, Wizards supported formats. It's as if non-supported formats weren't worth the community's time. I don't blame them, everyone has their own reasons for playing but the initial reaction followed by the now non-existent scene was really discouraging. It was then that I realized that I didn't really have many true friends through this game and most people just use it as a vector to become better at the game itself. That's not to say I didn't meet any lifelong friends through Magic but those friends have been there from the moment I began playing casually and are still casual, chill guys that I associate with now (you know who you are :)).
4. I then had a bunch of cards worth a few grand just sitting there so, after some soul searching, I sold most of it. I kept my 2 favourite Legacy decks as well as my Cube (I still love the Cube and I'm pretty sure it contains pieces of mine and my friend's souls :P) but after 3 months now I've never looked back. Sure I still frequent this site for Cube opinions, to follow the drama that seems to be inherent to the game now (judge drama, gender drama, pros' cyber bullying, Wizard's general incompetence, man there's a lot), and to check price drama (another reason I didn't get into modern, nothing seems stable anymore) but that doesn't take up much time.
I still play other games and funny enough I got back into Pokemon cards (which is a blast right now for many reasons for both me and my awesome gf, check out my youtube channel Expert Occultist :)) but I've never missed the competitive Magic scene. I of course still have my 2 Legacy decks for the inevitable yearly Legacy tournament but I agree with many posters here; after downsizing I feel a huge weight has lifted from me now that I don't have to worry about staying current, buying before prices surge, and dealing with those who just see me as an opponent. I guess you could just say that the game got too Modern for me
a program of a slightly different strain.
Tonight my listeners, a new power will rise,
unleashed upon you all in this musical disguise.
Your cities turn to ash, for the broadcast is cursed.
The signal is peaking and can't be reversed.
If you choose my children, you can try to hide.
But I strongly suggest you run for your life."
-The Sermon 2, The Creepshow
Did it ever occur to you that neither cockatrice nor tournaments existed back when Magic was first printed? Did you ever think about maybe playing it with a small group of friends like God intended, occasionally dueling random strangers just to see what crazy new deck they might have that you've never seen before? Suddenly, it won't seem like such a waste of your time.
This pretty much sums up what I do with MTG now. I used to try and play online all the time on Cockatrice and MTGO but I just never enjoyed it. I want to get better at MTG but with a family and a full time career it is hard. The only time I do play online now is if I am going to a comp REL event and want to practice some more besides just FNM.
Podcast
Isn't it a shame that the better we get at something the less pleasure we derive from it because it isn't new? Lots of things are like this.
I wouldn't advise quitting though. Over the years I've had countless people tell me they were quitting either Magic or poker and they always came back. I can surely understand quitting COMPETITIVE magic. Competitive Magic to me never made sense anyway. The payoffs are so low compared to poker and the cost is so high.
But I don't know a single person, lawyer or otherwise, who doesn't spend a few hours a week at a hobby. Sadly for many people their only hobby is TV. Personally, I would rather spend that time playing Magic. I play Magic almost every day and I haven't spent a dime since 2010. How? I play PRE. The prizes are only a couple bucks but entry is fee. I then parlay those winnings into Pauper, particularly now that leagues are back. I'm about a 70% win rate in league which I then parlay into drafting Cube when it's open. I found Magic Online is a really good outlet. I think Magic as a collectible card game is awesome. The flavor, the stories, etc. Magic as a competitive game is TERRIBLE. The cost to entry is high, the payouts are low, the competition is too good to squeeze too much EV. My recommendation is taking up Pauper on MTGO. Low stress but you can still use it as an outlet for your competitive streak. Great format because the competition is strong but the barrier to entry is low.
I usually never play super competitively, but sometimes I do.
Yeah but sometimes it is going to hit me very hard with the cards I have, imagine if I sold my cards I could be traveling to 10 country in a role, or buy bunch of other amazing things.
EDH: Xenagos, God of Revels.