"The new art doesn't have as much character as the old art. The new art all looks the same. The new art is ugly. This isn't even art anymore, it's just illustration."
Pretty sure the first time I heard comments like these was around the release of Urza's Saga? Maybe even Tempest block? People like different things. Usually what they're already used to, as opposed to new stuff.
Also, it's pretty clear WoTC wasn't confident in the set either given how loaded up the reprints are in the set. They seriously loaded this set with pure gas just in case the two headed giant thing and flavor failed.
You might wanna stretch before jumping to conclusions like that. Seriously though, it's their job to sell packs. Reprints are just one piece of the puzzle, and aren't necessarily some kind of crutch. Conspiracy 2 was the same way. It just seems like they're getting better at making interesting supplemental products. Masters sets are another story entirely. I don't know how they can ever convince anyone to pay $10 a pack again.
All you guys can call it subjective all day long. Whatever.
Well, now that I have your permission: it's subjective. Alright guys, let's pack it in. Thread's done.
Well, not going to comment on the second portion of this, but it's not really stretching things to say that they were not confident with battlebonds more original card choices. Lets look at Conspiracy 2 as an example:
Conspiracy 2, being a second set in a known game type and possessing an aesthetic closer to that of traditional MtG sets, was far more conservative on reprints. Another example of WoTC past behavior was masters 2013, where they under-printed the supplementary set because they were unsure of the impact it would have on the secondary market with fears of Chronicles flying around.
Wizards of the Coast is hilariously easy to read when it comes to when they get too comfortable and when they are nervous. Masters sets they got way too comfortable with and blew themselves up with the last two sets. Battlebond has them basically nervous as heck because the art style is far from the aesthetics used traditionally in the game and they are focusing on a gametype they haven't really dedicated themselves to before.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
1. (Ravnica Allegiance): You can't keep a good esper control deck down... Or Wilderness Reclamation... or Gates...
2. (War of the Spark): Guys, I know what we need! We need a cycle of really idiotic flavor text victory cards! Jace's Triumph...
3. (War of the Spark): Lets make the format with control have even more control!
If they were nervous about it, they wouldn't release it in the first place. Your posts are just a bunch of cynical assumptions backed up by absolutely no evidence, just stuff like WotC being "easy to read" with nothing of actual substance to back that up. Conjecture isn't the same as facts. That may be your impression (and still valid as such), but without evidence, that's all it is.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Can you name all of the creature types with at least 20 cards? Try my Sporcle Quiz! Last Updated: 6/29/20 (Core Set 2021).
They realeased Magic Origins. That was some of the worst art in recent memory, and BBD is miles ahead of that.
I prefer the art style of the late 90’s early ‘00’s. But, I also appreciate and enjoy the art style of BBD. It honestly looks like Overwatch on cardboard. There are some bad pieces, sure, but the overall set is fine.
I guess my point is this. If you buy/play/enjoy magic based solely on the art, then you probably aren’t the target audience, considering every set/plane/product has a different art direction.
I’d also like to point out that, contrary to popular belief, Internet forums are an incredibly small representation of any community, not just MtG. Truth be told, if everybody liked everything all the time, Internet forums wouldn’t exist.
If they were nervous about it, they wouldn't release it in the first place. Your posts are just a bunch of cynical assumptions backed up by absolutely no evidence, just stuff like WotC being "easy to read" with nothing of actual substance to back that up. Conjecture isn't the same as facts. That may be your impression (and still valid as such), but without evidence, that's all it is.
Well, I tend to disagree with you on this because the facts are there: You can see the pattern of reprints in past summer sets and even in past sets that were not summer sets. In fact, there is a lot one can read from the kinds of cards the company prints as well as the time that they print them. Albeit, one has to consider that there was a two year lag in past releases and now supposedly they have sped up the process, which definitely appears to show right now. Many of the reprints feature their old flavor text and artwork with no merging into the actual set aesthetics.
As for cynicism: Am I really the cynical one? To me, there is nothing cynical about being nervous on a set and taking precautionary measures to make sure the set does sell. It's good business sense given the shaky relationship with distributors after the last few standard sets along with many stores.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
1. (Ravnica Allegiance): You can't keep a good esper control deck down... Or Wilderness Reclamation... or Gates...
2. (War of the Spark): Guys, I know what we need! We need a cycle of really idiotic flavor text victory cards! Jace's Triumph...
3. (War of the Spark): Lets make the format with control have even more control!
The set is packed with EDH reprints to "guarantee" it has enough value to sell.
Its a gamble to sell a product for Two-headed-giant , and its very unlikely to sell for that alone, difficult enough to get people to draft, even more so to draft in 2HG "casual" formats.
If they were nervous about it, they wouldn't release it in the first place. Your posts are just a bunch of cynical assumptions backed up by absolutely no evidence, just stuff like WotC being "easy to read" with nothing of actual substance to back that up. Conjecture isn't the same as facts. That may be your impression (and still valid as such), but without evidence, that's all it is.
Well, I tend to disagree with you on this because the facts are there: You can see the pattern of reprints in past summer sets and even in past sets that were not summer sets. In fact, there is a lot one can read from the kinds of cards the company prints as well as the time that they print them. Albeit, one has to consider that there was a two year lag in past releases and now supposedly they have sped up the process, which definitely appears to show right now. Many of the reprints feature their old flavor text and artwork with no merging into the actual set aesthetics.
As for cynicism: Am I really the cynical one? To me, there is nothing cynical about being nervous on a set and taking precautionary measures to make sure the set does sell. It's good business sense given the shaky relationship with distributors after the last few standard sets along with many stores.
I'm gonna zero in on that bolded bit first. This is not without precedent. The easiest example being, again, both Conspiracy sets. I think it's a given in sets like these that they're not going to give every reprint new art. Hell, Nirkana Revenant, like Inquisition of Kozilek before it, makes explicit reference to Zendikar. Basically, new cards and some reprints will be set on Kylem/Fiora, and most of the reprints will not. I'd be more inclined to agree with you if the set had been called Kylem.
I surmised your cynicism based on the tone of your previous post, in which you seemed to knock the set for having these spicy reprints, seemingly concluding that the product would be substandard without them. Apologies if I misread.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Can you name all of the creature types with at least 20 cards? Try my Sporcle Quiz! Last Updated: 6/29/20 (Core Set 2021).
If they were nervous about it, they wouldn't release it in the first place. Your posts are just a bunch of cynical assumptions backed up by absolutely no evidence, just stuff like WotC being "easy to read" with nothing of actual substance to back that up. Conjecture isn't the same as facts. That may be your impression (and still valid as such), but without evidence, that's all it is.
Well, I tend to disagree with you on this because the facts are there: You can see the pattern of reprints in past summer sets and even in past sets that were not summer sets. In fact, there is a lot one can read from the kinds of cards the company prints as well as the time that they print them. Albeit, one has to consider that there was a two year lag in past releases and now supposedly they have sped up the process, which definitely appears to show right now. Many of the reprints feature their old flavor text and artwork with no merging into the actual set aesthetics.
As for cynicism: Am I really the cynical one? To me, there is nothing cynical about being nervous on a set and taking precautionary measures to make sure the set does sell. It's good business sense given the shaky relationship with distributors after the last few standard sets along with many stores.
I'm gonna zero in on that bolded bit first. This is not without precedent. The easiest example being, again, both Conspiracy sets. I think it's a given in sets like these that they're not going to give every reprint new art. Hell, Nirkana Revenant, like Inquisition of Kozilek before it, makes explicit reference to Zendikar. Basically, new cards and some reprints will be set on Kylem/Fiora, and most of the reprints will not. I'd be more inclined to agree with you if the set had been called Kylem.
I surmised your cynicism based on the tone of your previous post, in which you seemed to knock the set for having these spicy reprints, seemingly concluding that the product would be substandard without them. Apologies if I misread.
Well, no that part is true. If they had none of the reprints and tried to do this as a pure two headed giant set it would have been a failure. The entire reason they did this goes back to a lot of what was said about bringing back core sets and shifting to larger standard sets. They just don't have the man power to build, design, and test a set like this, so they filled out the remaining parts with established cards. They also went higher CMC on some cards due to the two headed giant thing. Doubling Season for example, is an all star in a format where games go longer and there is token support in the set, even if it isn't exactly strong. Blaring Recruiter is at uncommon and they have doomed traveler and Doomed dissenter as well. If someone is lucky they might get Regna, the Redeemer and Take up arms.
So one way or another, this set would have required reprints to work. The fact they picked money cards is mostly because of them wanting a plan B.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
1. (Ravnica Allegiance): You can't keep a good esper control deck down... Or Wilderness Reclamation... or Gates...
2. (War of the Spark): Guys, I know what we need! We need a cycle of really idiotic flavor text victory cards! Jace's Triumph...
3. (War of the Spark): Lets make the format with control have even more control!
Modern: -UBG Lantern Control-GW or RG or R Tron - G Stompy - C KCI Combo-
EDH: -UG Ezuri-UGZegana-BRMogis-WUBRGRamos-WBREdgar-URLocust God-WUBRBreya-BMacar-WUBrago-WEvra-
I guess my point is this. If you buy/play/enjoy magic based solely on the art, then you probably aren’t the target audience, considering every set/plane/product has a different art direction.
Solely enjoying the art is not anybodies angle here I think. Art is integral to the game.
No block is perfect but my favorite might be tempest block for overall art and flavor. Also have great appreciation for much of the older art, the dark as someone mentioned, Mirage block. Really liked Scars of Mirrodin, Mirrodin besieged, New Phyrexia, Lorwyn block, Urza's block, future sight, time spiral and I could go on and on. I remember Masques block was really shaky and had a lot of junky illustration looking stuff like this battlebonds. It was the first time where I felt like art quality was going downhill fast, even though it still had a lot of strong art it was hot and cold.
now that the set has been fully spoiled i feel i can comment on the art, so here goes:
its a little more flamboyant and whimseylike than say amonkhet, but overall its really not so bad. its meant to be a more fun setting, and the art reflects that. most of its is fairly forgettable, but thats no different from the past six or seven years of art direction.
is all the art stellar and amazing? well no
is all the art trash? not really
does it capture the feel of the plane and the feeling of the set? i'd say so yes.
i'd put it above bfz block (almost anything is better than that crap), but below something with iconic direction like mirage, saga or innistrad.
Pretty sure the first time I heard comments like these was around the release of Urza's Saga? Maybe even Tempest block? People like different things. Usually what they're already used to, as opposed to new stuff.
Well, not going to comment on the second portion of this, but it's not really stretching things to say that they were not confident with battlebonds more original card choices. Lets look at Conspiracy 2 as an example:
Berserk
Birds of Paradise
Burgeoning
Inquisition of Kozilek (this was actually still worth something when this set came out)
Phyrexian Arena
Syrum Visions
Beast Within
Burning Wish
Conspiracy 2, being a second set in a known game type and possessing an aesthetic closer to that of traditional MtG sets, was far more conservative on reprints. Another example of WoTC past behavior was masters 2013, where they under-printed the supplementary set because they were unsure of the impact it would have on the secondary market with fears of Chronicles flying around.
Wizards of the Coast is hilariously easy to read when it comes to when they get too comfortable and when they are nervous. Masters sets they got way too comfortable with and blew themselves up with the last two sets. Battlebond has them basically nervous as heck because the art style is far from the aesthetics used traditionally in the game and they are focusing on a gametype they haven't really dedicated themselves to before.
1. (Ravnica Allegiance): You can't keep a good esper control deck down... Or Wilderness Reclamation... or Gates...
2. (War of the Spark): Guys, I know what we need! We need a cycle of really idiotic flavor text victory cards! Jace's Triumph...
3. (War of the Spark): Lets make the format with control have even more control!
My 720 Peasant Cube
I prefer the art style of the late 90’s early ‘00’s. But, I also appreciate and enjoy the art style of BBD. It honestly looks like Overwatch on cardboard. There are some bad pieces, sure, but the overall set is fine.
I guess my point is this. If you buy/play/enjoy magic based solely on the art, then you probably aren’t the target audience, considering every set/plane/product has a different art direction.
I’d also like to point out that, contrary to popular belief, Internet forums are an incredibly small representation of any community, not just MtG. Truth be told, if everybody liked everything all the time, Internet forums wouldn’t exist.
Well, I tend to disagree with you on this because the facts are there: You can see the pattern of reprints in past summer sets and even in past sets that were not summer sets. In fact, there is a lot one can read from the kinds of cards the company prints as well as the time that they print them. Albeit, one has to consider that there was a two year lag in past releases and now supposedly they have sped up the process, which definitely appears to show right now. Many of the reprints feature their old flavor text and artwork with no merging into the actual set aesthetics.
As for cynicism: Am I really the cynical one? To me, there is nothing cynical about being nervous on a set and taking precautionary measures to make sure the set does sell. It's good business sense given the shaky relationship with distributors after the last few standard sets along with many stores.
1. (Ravnica Allegiance): You can't keep a good esper control deck down... Or Wilderness Reclamation... or Gates...
2. (War of the Spark): Guys, I know what we need! We need a cycle of really idiotic flavor text victory cards! Jace's Triumph...
3. (War of the Spark): Lets make the format with control have even more control!
Its a gamble to sell a product for Two-headed-giant , and its very unlikely to sell for that alone, difficult enough to get people to draft, even more so to draft in 2HG "casual" formats.
----
Reprints are a security measure.
WUBRG#BlackLotusMatterWUBRG
👮👮👮 #BlueLivesMatter 👮👮👮
I'm gonna zero in on that bolded bit first. This is not without precedent. The easiest example being, again, both Conspiracy sets. I think it's a given in sets like these that they're not going to give every reprint new art. Hell, Nirkana Revenant, like Inquisition of Kozilek before it, makes explicit reference to Zendikar. Basically, new cards and some reprints will be set on Kylem/Fiora, and most of the reprints will not. I'd be more inclined to agree with you if the set had been called Kylem.
I surmised your cynicism based on the tone of your previous post, in which you seemed to knock the set for having these spicy reprints, seemingly concluding that the product would be substandard without them. Apologies if I misread.
My 720 Peasant Cube
Well, no that part is true. If they had none of the reprints and tried to do this as a pure two headed giant set it would have been a failure. The entire reason they did this goes back to a lot of what was said about bringing back core sets and shifting to larger standard sets. They just don't have the man power to build, design, and test a set like this, so they filled out the remaining parts with established cards. They also went higher CMC on some cards due to the two headed giant thing. Doubling Season for example, is an all star in a format where games go longer and there is token support in the set, even if it isn't exactly strong. Blaring Recruiter is at uncommon and they have doomed traveler and Doomed dissenter as well. If someone is lucky they might get Regna, the Redeemer and Take up arms.
So one way or another, this set would have required reprints to work. The fact they picked money cards is mostly because of them wanting a plan B.
1. (Ravnica Allegiance): You can't keep a good esper control deck down... Or Wilderness Reclamation... or Gates...
2. (War of the Spark): Guys, I know what we need! We need a cycle of really idiotic flavor text victory cards! Jace's Triumph...
3. (War of the Spark): Lets make the format with control have even more control!
Couldn't agree more. <gack>
EDH: -UG Ezuri-UGZegana-BRMogis-WUBRGRamos-WBREdgar-URLocust God-WUBRBreya-BMacar-WUBrago-WEvra-
Solely enjoying the art is not anybodies angle here I think. Art is integral to the game.
No block is perfect but my favorite might be tempest block for overall art and flavor. Also have great appreciation for much of the older art, the dark as someone mentioned, Mirage block. Really liked Scars of Mirrodin, Mirrodin besieged, New Phyrexia, Lorwyn block, Urza's block, future sight, time spiral and I could go on and on. I remember Masques block was really shaky and had a lot of junky illustration looking stuff like this battlebonds. It was the first time where I felt like art quality was going downhill fast, even though it still had a lot of strong art it was hot and cold.
its a little more flamboyant and whimseylike than say amonkhet, but overall its really not so bad. its meant to be a more fun setting, and the art reflects that. most of its is fairly forgettable, but thats no different from the past six or seven years of art direction.
is all the art stellar and amazing? well no
is all the art trash? not really
does it capture the feel of the plane and the feeling of the set? i'd say so yes.
i'd put it above bfz block (almost anything is better than that crap), but below something with iconic direction like mirage, saga or innistrad.
I think no one is arguing that. All sets have good and bad art, but the bad art in this case is really, really bad.
BGU Control
R Aggro
Standard - For Fun
BG Auras