Using a combination of Axebane Guardian and three other defenders you can repeatedly tap the Axebane Guardian for infinite mana if he is soulbound with Galvanic Alchemistl.
Please rate this combo on a scale of 1-10 and (with 1 being the lowest, ten highest) and explain why you chose that rating. I'm not giving a model to base this off of myself as I'm interested to see how people individually approach it.
One thing I will say, I'm quite glad this is standard legal.
Its absurdly hard to put together, and we don't have any other reason to play mono-defenders in a serious competition. I said 2 because there are some good walls, and you'll get a few game 1s because no one sees it coming.
Oh, I thought he was talking about playing a spell that is countering a spell with counters on it as it comes into play, but I see you guys were just discussing whether he was flashing a creature with flash in order to flash a flashback or just flashing a creature with flash but not needing flash in order to flashback a spell without flash.
So, to go off we need to have in play 4 defenders and Galvanic Alchemist. We need to have in hand a way to use infinite mana. An easily-stopped 6-card combo that relies on maintaining a rigid board position, and each of the individual cards is weak enough that you can't ever do anything until you've assembled the entire combo. This strikes me as a weaker version of the Myr infinite mana combo, and even that was pretty janky.
Using a combination of Axebane Guardian and three other defenders you can repeatedly tap the Axebane Guardian for infinite mana if he is soulbound with Galvanic Alchemistl.
Please rate this combo on a scale of 1-10 and (with 1 being the lowest, ten highest) and explain why you chose that rating. I'm not giving a model to base this off of myself as I'm interested to see how people individually approach it.
One thing I will say, I'm quite glad this is standard legal.
cute. It requires 5 pieces. (6 if you actually count the thing your'e going to use the mana on. if you're kept off your combo, you end up being fairly behind
Thread doesn't seem to be moving very quickly so I'll put in my experience with it.
It's not a combo you'll be throwing into a deck without intentionally building around it (Cards such as slaughter festival make this rather difficult to pull off if you have insufficient counterspells). Current layout I've had quite some success with is a WBUr deck with an emphasis on Defenders. Also has quite a few enchantments including/exploiting Sphere of Safety to force your opponent to choose between attacking, or trying to build up a board presence.
Win conditions tend to be milling via doorkeeper (Another mono-defender card) or using an infinite mana combo with Nivix Guildmage and a spell that does damage or forces an opponent to draw/mill. Weaker conditions include infinite population into fatal attacks via Selesnya's guildmage (Put into this trial deck for lifegain with Trostani, Selesnya's voice to provide lifegain to offset stabwounds or burn cards). Heavy use of draw cards is also a part of this trial deck.
It seems rather difficult to balance the decklist as there are too many cards fighting for a spot. Defenders, Enchantments, and draw cards all provide a benefit which grows in value that it's hard to accurately evaluate when to stop putting in / cut cards of a certain type. The deck I've made feels a bit low on lands, though Axebane/Gatecreeper/Keyrunes offset the likelyhood of mana screw.
More experienced/older players seem to be rating this lower on average than newer players (Though the sample size is very small). I can definitely see why they'd rate it low, and it will likely never become competitive to any degree beside small shop RTR game day at most (Due to lack of need for pricey cards beyond dual lands in standard).
I'm still enjoying it quite a bit and intend to tweak my build and look for others.
It's been pointed out already that is is more a six card combo than a two-card one, so I won't repeat that (except I just did, curse you irony!).
I was wondering what your kill spell of choice was. Devil's Play seems like a good choice as it can be in your hand or your graveyard in order to go off. That at least mitigates part of the deck's weakness.
After Gatecrash you might find yourself able to go straight UG with this deck, as having Breeding Pool and Simic Guildgate will help a lot.
Devil's Play piqued my interest despite worrying me in regards to neither granting card draws, an enchantment to buff the Sphere of Safety, or defender to compliment the axebane/gatekeepers. Dropping the enchantments out of the test-deck I've been building and throwing in more cantrips, burn cards (Such as Devil's Play) and removal in general does sound very appealing.
This deck will also likely become much more likely when gatecrash launches as you've mentioned. If we were to drop white, the only enchantments that might remain as requirements would be Mana Bloom (Serves for color/mana fix when you're stuck at 2 mana, or don't have a Axebane ready to provide other colors) along with Rest in Peace to avoid enemies instantly countering one of this decks major win-conditions by having creatures that return to the deck if placed in the graveyard. We also don't know what the potential defender or X=Defender cards will be released.
Currently developing test deck towards - Dropping anything that isn't a cantrip, enchantment, defender, or essential win/combo condition or has potential to replace them. Cackling Counterpart x4 is being added in after 3 come in the mail. Also ordering cards such as thought scour / devils play to allow for removing enchantments from the deck and making Burn a more-primary win condition as well.
Devil's Play piqued my interest despite worrying me in regards to neither granting card draws, an enchantment to buff the Sphere of Safety, or defender to compliment the axebane/gatekeepers. Dropping the enchantments out of the test-deck I've been building and throwing in more cantrips, burn cards (Such as Devil's Play) and removal in general does sound very appealing.
This deck will also likely become much more likely when gatecrash launches as you've mentioned. If we were to drop white, the only enchantments that might remain as requirements would be Mana Bloom (Serves for color/mana fix when you're stuck at 2 mana, or don't have a Axebane ready to provide other colors) along with Rest in Peace to avoid enemies instantly countering one of this decks major win-conditions by having creatures that return to the deck if placed in the graveyard. We also don't know what the potential defender or X=Defender cards will be released.
Currently developing test deck towards - Dropping anything that isn't a cantrip, enchantment, defender, or essential win/combo condition or has potential to replace them. Cackling Counterpart x4 is being added in after 3 come in the mail. Also ordering cards such as thought scour / devils play to allow for removing enchantments from the deck and making Burn a more-primary win condition as well.
That's not how Rest in Peace works. Any card that would go to the graveyard is exiled instead. It's not a Wheel of Sun and Moon.
That's not how Rest in Peace works. Any card that would go to the graveyard is exiled instead. It's not a Wheel of Sun and Moon.
I think you misread my post. I have rest in peace so cards DO NOT enter the graveyard. A Worldspine Wurm would cause for me to be unable to mill out a deck during an infinite mana / infinite use of Doorkeeper or of replication (Via Nivix Guildmage) to mill out an opponent so the lose on the next draw. It's a slow play violation to re-initiate an infinite loop (such as milling out a deck) and being unable to reach an expected board state (Due to the worldspine wurms encounter disrupting an expected board state).
Rest in Peace bypasses this by exiling them instead which effectively nullifies Worldspine Wurm and like cards inherent counter to this play-style.
Interestingly enough I've been trying the same thing. It's the kind of thing I've been doing strictly for fun as I don't expect to win with it often. Then again when you do It's prreeettyyy Schweeet.
I've been using Devil's Play and Bonfire of the Damned as primary win conditions. I found it useful to splash a little black in there so I can be selective with Jarad's Orders. I'm definitely throwing a Niv-Mizzet in there in the off chance that I luck out on infinite card draw to guarantee a kill scenario.
I just sleeved up the deck myself but its for a casual multiplayer deck. some people complain about not playing standard so I made it standard legal and the point is ot shift through my cards untill I find Increasing confusion. then I mill myself completly out and then flashback the remaining 3 confusions and devil's play. If i'm playing against more than 5 people......well then I use a differnet deck.
But yeah.......1v1 in a competitive situation its remarkably bad.
That is ****ing BRILLIANT! Normally, I hate infinite mana combos because they are expensive to acquire, easy to set up, and end up being really boring. But this combo... This combo uses common cards and requires at least five cards to set up and looks fun to play with as a result because it allows for interaction to happen which keeps the game interesting. This is the infinite mana combo I have been searching for all these long years... I may just build a Standard deck based off of this. Thank you, my friend. Thank you.
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Nicol Bolas is so awesome! And so is Kokusho! Bolas x Kokusho 4eva!!! <3
Read their story here!
Using a combination of Axebane Guardian and three other defenders you can repeatedly tap the Axebane Guardian for infinite mana if he is soulbound with Galvanic Alchemistl.
Please rate this combo on a scale of 1-10 and (with 1 being the lowest, ten highest) and explain why you chose that rating. I'm not giving a model to base this off of myself as I'm interested to see how people individually approach it.
One thing I will say, I'm quite glad this is standard legal.
-regarding Snapcaster Mage.
cute. It requires 5 pieces. (6 if you actually count the thing your'e going to use the mana on. if you're kept off your combo, you end up being fairly behind
It's not a combo you'll be throwing into a deck without intentionally building around it (Cards such as slaughter festival make this rather difficult to pull off if you have insufficient counterspells). Current layout I've had quite some success with is a WBUr deck with an emphasis on Defenders. Also has quite a few enchantments including/exploiting Sphere of Safety to force your opponent to choose between attacking, or trying to build up a board presence.
Win conditions tend to be milling via doorkeeper (Another mono-defender card) or using an infinite mana combo with Nivix Guildmage and a spell that does damage or forces an opponent to draw/mill. Weaker conditions include infinite population into fatal attacks via Selesnya's guildmage (Put into this trial deck for lifegain with Trostani, Selesnya's voice to provide lifegain to offset stabwounds or burn cards). Heavy use of draw cards is also a part of this trial deck.
It seems rather difficult to balance the decklist as there are too many cards fighting for a spot. Defenders, Enchantments, and draw cards all provide a benefit which grows in value that it's hard to accurately evaluate when to stop putting in / cut cards of a certain type. The deck I've made feels a bit low on lands, though Axebane/Gatecreeper/Keyrunes offset the likelyhood of mana screw.
More experienced/older players seem to be rating this lower on average than newer players (Though the sample size is very small). I can definitely see why they'd rate it low, and it will likely never become competitive to any degree beside small shop RTR game day at most (Due to lack of need for pricey cards beyond dual lands in standard).
I'm still enjoying it quite a bit and intend to tweak my build and look for others.
I was wondering what your kill spell of choice was. Devil's Play seems like a good choice as it can be in your hand or your graveyard in order to go off. That at least mitigates part of the deck's weakness.
After Gatecrash you might find yourself able to go straight UG with this deck, as having Breeding Pool and Simic Guildgate will help a lot.
This deck will also likely become much more likely when gatecrash launches as you've mentioned. If we were to drop white, the only enchantments that might remain as requirements would be Mana Bloom (Serves for color/mana fix when you're stuck at 2 mana, or don't have a Axebane ready to provide other colors) along with Rest in Peace to avoid enemies instantly countering one of this decks major win-conditions by having creatures that return to the deck if placed in the graveyard. We also don't know what the potential defender or X=Defender cards will be released.
Currently developing test deck towards - Dropping anything that isn't a cantrip, enchantment, defender, or essential win/combo condition or has potential to replace them. Cackling Counterpart x4 is being added in after 3 come in the mail. Also ordering cards such as thought scour / devils play to allow for removing enchantments from the deck and making Burn a more-primary win condition as well.
That's not how Rest in Peace works. Any card that would go to the graveyard is exiled instead. It's not a Wheel of Sun and Moon.
I think you misread my post. I have rest in peace so cards DO NOT enter the graveyard. A Worldspine Wurm would cause for me to be unable to mill out a deck during an infinite mana / infinite use of Doorkeeper or of replication (Via Nivix Guildmage) to mill out an opponent so the lose on the next draw. It's a slow play violation to re-initiate an infinite loop (such as milling out a deck) and being unable to reach an expected board state (Due to the worldspine wurms encounter disrupting an expected board state).
Rest in Peace bypasses this by exiling them instead which effectively nullifies Worldspine Wurm and like cards inherent counter to this play-style.
I've been using Devil's Play and Bonfire of the Damned as primary win conditions. I found it useful to splash a little black in there so I can be selective with Jarad's Orders. I'm definitely throwing a Niv-Mizzet in there in the off chance that I luck out on infinite card draw to guarantee a kill scenario.
Fogbank is crucial and for a bit of fun I throw in Ludevic's Test Subject.
Again it doesn't deserve a high rating but the look on people's faces is worth it.
But yeah.......1v1 in a competitive situation its remarkably bad.
Nicol Bolas is so awesome! And so is Kokusho!
Bolas x Kokusho 4eva!!! <3
Read their story here!
BMy Little KokushoB
RBRakdos UNLEASHED!!!RB
My Standard Decks:
UGRakdos, Bolas, and Ludevic Go To A PartyUG