Note to Mods: I hope that this is the proper place for an opinion piece. If not, please correct me. Also, I'm really hoping that my interpretation and extrapolation on an article written by a lawyer (]Link) doesn't count as giving legal advice (to who? Wizards?).
One of these things is not like the others…
If you’re an active forum user, you probably saw the supposed announcement dated for 7/31/2018 that was reportedly “reopening” the premium loophole in the reserved list that was closed in 2011. While this claim has been thoroughlyrefuted (and failed to materialize on that date), this scandal was still enough to stir up the same annoyance and hope that this topic always brings out. Like clockwork, every version of these conversations repeats the same two points.
Point 1: If they break the reserved list, everyone can play legacy/vintage/cEDH. Point 2: The moment they break the reserved list, Wizards will be inundated with lawsuits.
People are really fixated on these two main points, which is kind of funny. After all, neither of these statements is necessarily true. I wanted to come through and see if I could safely dispel both of these notions (or at least to draw out some new arguments).
Counterpoint 1: Breaking the List May Not Help You
“I can only play Legacy if they break the list” =/= “If they break the list, I can play Legacy”
There is an (often unspoken) narrative that goes into every discussion of the reserved list. “If only wizards gets rid of that list, they can reprint the old dual lands… and mishra’s workshop... and it’s only a matter of time before we all own a black lotus.” While investors may hate it and casual players may pray for it, there is this unspoken assumption that any violation of the Reserved list will lead to an immediate slippery slope.
To an extent, I get why people would think this. If Wizards wants to break the list at all, why not generate as much good will (and profit) as possible to counter the bad PR and legal costs that this move would cost them. I get why you would think this… but it isn’t a foregone conclusion.
Believe it or not, the reserved list has a number of cards that would work well in a masterpiece series or From the Vaults product… that don’t cost hundreds of dollars. I could easily imagine Femeref Enchantress (a $20 card) being placed among Theros Masterpieces to “test the waters”. I could imagine Hakim, Loreweaver (not even worth $5) being reprinted in another Commander’s Arsenal. As printing less valuable cards (especially in limited amounts) is less likely to cause major value reductions to collectors, it strikes a reasonable balance of getting new reprints while minimizing legal risk (more on this later).
Regarding all of the big ticket items… look, I would LOVE it if I could buy Moat for $20. I think that would be FANTASTIC!. When you look at the numbers, though, you start to realize that the reserved list isn’t the only thing stopping certain reprints…
The highest price for Sol Ring (the Invention) was $500
You’ll note that the Sol Ring Invention (along with a couple of others like Mox Opal and Mana Crypt) are the most expensive cards actually placed into packs (disregarding chase premium cards and the “hidden treasures” from the original zendikar) in over a decade… by a tremendous margin.
Even if Wizards tears down the reserved list, moat is still a $750 card until more are printed. How on earth does Wizards give players a $750 card? Moat is worth more than the typical cards chosen as judge promos. Moat is worth more than the chase rares chosen in Masters sets. Moat is worth more than Masterpiece cards. In a best-case scenario, I can imagien post-reserve list Moats being given as prizes at the biggest of tournaments. If collectors keep to their guns, the reserved list may have made certain card prices “too big to fall”.
Of course, some of you may claim that this is nonsense. If Wizards really wanted to, they could “pull a sol ring” (ignoring the fact that an unlimited sol ring has never represented more than 5% of Moat’s current price) and reprint Moat (or Black Lotus. Or Time Vault) again and again until the price drops to reasonable levels. This, however, is exactly what Promissory Estoppel stops them from doing.
Speaking of which...
Counterpoint 2: Promissory Estoppel Has Limits
To be clear, I am not a lawyer. While I am related to one, I am not claiming to be a legal expert. While I did read a recent article by a lawyer on this topic over on MtGgoldfish (I highly recommend it), I need to be very careful here so I am not “giving legal advice”. From what I read in the article, however, it seems that there is a lot of confusion on these boards regarding Promissory Estoppel is concerned.
From my understanding, Promissory Estoppel isn’t some mystical boogeyman that forces Wizards to obey the reserved list forever. It doesn’t even guarantee that Wizards would face lawsuits after breaking the reserved list. To summarize the article above, Promissory estoppel allows individuals to hold Wizards to their previous policy as though it were a contract in the case that they suffer damages as a result of that policy being breached.
At first glance, the math for calculating damages in MtG looks simple:
Previous High Price - Current Low Price = Damages
Unfortunately, the value of our cardboard can vary over time. As such, the actual prices at which we bought the cards and sold the cards are kind of important when proving we suffered financial harm as a result of the list being broken. In practice, the actual calculation looks more like.
Price of Original Purchase (maximum = Market Value of Cards at time of purchase) - Price of Sale (minimum = Market Value of Cards at time of sale) = Damages
So… what does this logically mean?
1. If you were silly enough to buy a $300 card for $800 and you end up selling them for a market price of $100, you can only claim $200 and not $600.
2. If a $300 card you bought for market price drops to $200, you can’t sell it to a friend for $1 and try to make up the other $299 through Promissory Estoppel (though you could get $100).
3. If a $300 card you bought for market price drops to $200 but you sell it to a sucker for $300 anyways… you get nothing from Wizards.
Further, you may notice that these guidelines cut out a wide swath of potential collectors who might otherwise start lawsuits.
If you are a legacy player and don’t want to sell your cards, you can’t use Promissory Estoppel to sue Wizards because your collection is worth less and you feel salty.
Anyone who can’t prove the value of the item when it was originally purchased is in a bit of trouble (Do you still have the receipt for that Taiga you bought from a vendor with cash five years ago? Could you realistically track down that stranger at the Grand Prix who traded you Chains of Mephistopheles for a couple Goyfs?)
If you are one of the older players who has been collecting from the very beginning, any super-valuable cards that you bought for cheap early on will still have an increased in net value and you could not use Promissory Estoppel.
Note: Players who got their cards awhile ago are actually doubly screwed. When using Promissory Estoppel, you are claiming that you were relying on a promise when you made your decision to purchase. If your purchase was made before March of 1996, there was no reserved list for you to rely upon. If you bought cards before 2011, meanwhile, you were relying on a reserved list that still allowed printings of premium cards.
So… with all of that established, would Wizards face a litany of litigations for destroying the reserved list?
Honestly, it probably depends. Let’s look at an example i call The Minimum Breach.
Let’s say that wizards announces one day that they are opening the loophole again. They provide a week of articles from the entire team explaining their rationale and providing a bunch of assurances to collectors restore confidence (an informal list of cards “too valuable to reprint”, limiting reprints from the list to one per product/masterpiece series, openly advertising which card will be reprinted next, etc.). Wizards then spoils a reserved card in a From the Vaults product coming later this year. We get this:
Truly, WotC’s generosity knows no bounds.
As you might expect, some players may feel angry or uneasy about the loophole being opened up… but our earlier definition of Promissory Estoppel can’t be used yet. As mentioned, the collector would have to suffer damages as the result of the reprint. Printing a $1 card probably isn’t going to tank the value of your entire collection… or at least not directly. Also note that collectors could not respond to this spoiler by buying up every copy of of the marauder, artificially inflating the price, and suing wizards when the price falls back down. As mentioned earlier, you need the promise to be in place when you are making your purchases.
What might happen, however, is a selling panic. If a bunch of collectors decide to get out of MtG because this loophole returned and they collectively sell their cards for low prices to get out NOW, the prices start tanking and anyone who sells at the lower price can sue for damages. The problem with this is that Magic Cards (unlike Beanie Babies) have direct utility… and the expensive ones are often crazy good. If someone sells a cheap black lotus online, the odds are it will be purchased either by:
1. A player who won’t want to sell it (prices stay constant or slight increase)
2. A reseller waiting for the momentary panic to end (prices stay constant or slight increase)
As such, we would need a critical mass of collectors trying to cash out at the same time in order to make this work… and it’s honestly not clear whether that critical mass exists. Even if we do get a momentary panic, it is likely that the price will largely recover by the time anything reaches the court (meaning that legacy players who hold onto their cards won’t become legal “landmines” waiting to press further litigations whenever they leave the game.).
So… yeah. I could imagine Wizards abolishing the reserved list and reprinting cards of low to moderate price while facing little to no legal pushback… assuming that wizards can build good will with the collectors and retain enough of their trust to avoid a selling panic.
Closing Points
1. Removing (or finding a loophole in) the reserved list isn’t some magical event that automatically guarantees you all of the most famous cards in the game. Even in a post-RL world, Wizards has zero obligation to make Black Lotus accessible. While the reserved list is certainly an obstacle, “I want cards from the reserved list” =/= “The reserved list must go”.
2. The existence of the reserved list and promissory estoppel does not necessarily mean that you can dismiss any notion of the reserved list being removed. If it is removed, however, Wizards is strongly incentivised to implement reprints in a way that doesn’t hurt your collections.
I don't really think the legal reasons are why wizards haven't undone the RL. The main reason is simply summed up in the question, what is in it for them? Just because people want the RL gone doesn't mean that this translates into more sealed product sales. I think the group that may force them to remove the RL are the commander crowd rather than the Legacy players, since Commander players actively buy a huge number of RL cards for commander decks. The attrition on played commander cards is a real thing and cards like Open the Vaults are powerful pieces that commander players seek out all the time.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
1. (Ravnica Allegiance): You can't keep a good esper control deck down... Or Wilderness Reclamation... or Gates...
2. (War of the Spark): Guys, I know what we need! We need a cycle of really idiotic flavor text victory cards! Jace's Triumph...
3. (War of the Spark): Lets make the format with control have even more control!
When it comes to the reserved list, I'm sure that Wizards is considering possible rewards as well as costs. At this moment in time, I would expect that you are correct in stating that there is insufficient incentives to justify the risks. Reprinting a regular $100 card will likely generate similar levels of hype to printing a Palinchron (value is value) and printing the other card has less risks. In the future, when all of the high-priced normal cards have been reprinted several times over and Wizards starts facing diminishing returns on those reprints, the incentive to use RL cards may increase.
In any Risk-Reward analysis, however, you are measuring that incentive against the risks you face. For Wizards, those risks likely have a legal dimension (even if they ultimately boil down to finances). Wizards chooses to make "safer reprints" because 1) they are able to make similar quantities of money 2) without facing any legal consequences. Put another way, Wizards would have no reason to keep the RL around without the legal/financial burdens the list created for them. While I personally think that Wizards could get away with reprinting cards like Palinchron in a controlled manner, I can also respect them wanting to be conservative in this matter.
Ultimately, there's a lot that's hard to predict. While masterpiece cards have typically retained a certain level of value, this isn't guaranteed and a single wrong move or unexpected price turn could result in a wave of lawsuits (albeit small ones). There may or may not be enough investors/collectors out there to cause a selling panic when the loophole returns. Wizards may come across as less than convincing when trying to reassure collectors and prevent such a panic.
There's enough moving pieces here that I can understand why Wizards is hesitant to abandon the list. With that said, I do think that wizards would have a decent chance of doing so successfully (with minimal/no lawsuits) if they approached it in the right way. In the long run, I think we have a decent chance of seeing it abolished (though some additional cards we want may be prohibitively expensive by that point).
When it comes to the reserved list, I'm sure that Wizards is considering possible rewards as well as costs. At this moment in time, I would expect that you are correct in stating that there is insufficient incentives to justify the risks. Reprinting a regular $100 card will likely generate similar levels of hype to printing a Palinchron (value is value) and printing the other card has less risks. In the future, when all of the high-priced normal cards have been reprinted several times over and Wizards starts facing diminishing returns on those reprints, the incentive to use RL cards may increase.
In any Risk-Reward analysis, however, you are measuring that incentive against the risks you face. For Wizards, those risks likely have a legal dimension (even if they ultimately boil down to finances). Wizards chooses to make "safer reprints" because 1) they are able to make similar quantities of money 2) without facing any legal consequences. Put another way, Wizards would have no reason to keep the RL around without the legal/financial burdens the list created for them. While I personally think that Wizards could get away with reprinting cards like Palinchron in a controlled manner, I can also respect them wanting to be conservative in this matter.
Ultimately, there's a lot that's hard to predict. While masterpiece cards have typically retained a certain level of value, this isn't guaranteed and a single wrong move or unexpected price turn could result in a wave of lawsuits (albeit small ones). There may or may not be enough investors/collectors out there to cause a selling panic when the loophole returns. Wizards may come across as less than convincing when trying to reassure collectors and prevent such a panic.
There's enough moving pieces here that I can understand why Wizards is hesitant to abandon the list. With that said, I do think that wizards would have a decent chance of doing so successfully (with minimal/no lawsuits) if they approached it in the right way. In the long run, I think we have a decent chance of seeing it abolished (though some additional cards we want may be prohibitively expensive by that point).
It's more about how would someone pitch this to their manager? I'm going to go into my bosses room right now and tell them "I think we should undo the reserved list." The strongest reason I can think of for doing it is that there are some good cards on the list that could make for an interesting draft format and help revive interest in standard.
However, someone would have to go back to historical data from standards of that Era and compare them to the current standard era, try to postulate how a new set could be built around the same concepts as that original set, and then argue somehow that it is worth it to break a promise made years ago for a scenario where designers could just come up with new cards anyway.
The next argument is that breaking the RL would bring more sales. That's all and good, but then how do those cards get sold? Many are way too high in cost to just slam into a commander set and no one really knows what the gameplay demand of the cards would be in this day and age outside of maybe commander. Plus Wizards would still have to pay developers and set design teams to build and test a draft-able set or precon product to pack the cards in. On top of which, the only people who say it would be good for business are places like SCG and such. For wizards, it costs them the same amount of money to print a RL card that has been reworked as it does anything else, and they have zero clue what the true demand is on any of the old cards outside of maybe commander staples found on EDH rec. So from their perspective, they'd be taking a lot of risk and potentially giving away potential money to the secondary businesses.
Also, I'm hoping I'm not giving the impression that I'm defending the RL here because I like it. Honestly, it was stupid to begin with that they put it up, but unless there is clear profit and minimal risks, they aren't doing it. Wizards of the coast executives are about making money and pleasing unsympathetic stockholders while the design team seems to be getting pushed into safety zone game stories and inbred design.
1. (Ravnica Allegiance): You can't keep a good esper control deck down... Or Wilderness Reclamation... or Gates...
2. (War of the Spark): Guys, I know what we need! We need a cycle of really idiotic flavor text victory cards! Jace's Triumph...
3. (War of the Spark): Lets make the format with control have even more control!
The only way I see the reserved list getting revoked is if WoTC is already on the verge of bankruptcy...printing the reserved list cards for a one last cash grab would be an option at that point.
Note to Mods: I hope that this is the proper place for an opinion piece. If not, please correct me. Also, I'm really hoping that my interpretation and extrapolation on an article written by a lawyer (]Link) doesn't count as giving legal advice (to who? Wizards?).
One of these things is not like the others…
Point 1: If they break the reserved list, everyone can play legacy/vintage/cEDH.
Point 2: The moment they break the reserved list, Wizards will be inundated with lawsuits.
People are really fixated on these two main points, which is kind of funny. After all, neither of these statements is necessarily true. I wanted to come through and see if I could safely dispel both of these notions (or at least to draw out some new arguments).
There is an (often unspoken) narrative that goes into every discussion of the reserved list. “If only wizards gets rid of that list, they can reprint the old dual lands… and mishra’s workshop... and it’s only a matter of time before we all own a black lotus.” While investors may hate it and casual players may pray for it, there is this unspoken assumption that any violation of the Reserved list will lead to an immediate slippery slope.
To an extent, I get why people would think this. If Wizards wants to break the list at all, why not generate as much good will (and profit) as possible to counter the bad PR and legal costs that this move would cost them. I get why you would think this… but it isn’t a foregone conclusion.
Believe it or not, the reserved list has a number of cards that would work well in a masterpiece series or From the Vaults product… that don’t cost hundreds of dollars. I could easily imagine Femeref Enchantress (a $20 card) being placed among Theros Masterpieces to “test the waters”. I could imagine Hakim, Loreweaver (not even worth $5) being reprinted in another Commander’s Arsenal. As printing less valuable cards (especially in limited amounts) is less likely to cause major value reductions to collectors, it strikes a reasonable balance of getting new reprints while minimizing legal risk (more on this later).
Regarding all of the big ticket items… look, I would LOVE it if I could buy Moat for $20. I think that would be FANTASTIC!. When you look at the numbers, though, you start to realize that the reserved list isn’t the only thing stopping certain reprints…
According to MtGgoldfish.com price histories:
You’ll note that the Sol Ring Invention (along with a couple of others like Mox Opal and Mana Crypt) are the most expensive cards actually placed into packs (disregarding chase premium cards and the “hidden treasures” from the original zendikar) in over a decade… by a tremendous margin.
Even if Wizards tears down the reserved list, moat is still a $750 card until more are printed. How on earth does Wizards give players a $750 card? Moat is worth more than the typical cards chosen as judge promos. Moat is worth more than the chase rares chosen in Masters sets. Moat is worth more than Masterpiece cards. In a best-case scenario, I can imagien post-reserve list Moats being given as prizes at the biggest of tournaments. If collectors keep to their guns, the reserved list may have made certain card prices “too big to fall”.
Of course, some of you may claim that this is nonsense. If Wizards really wanted to, they could “pull a sol ring” (ignoring the fact that an unlimited sol ring has never represented more than 5% of Moat’s current price) and reprint Moat (or Black Lotus. Or Time Vault) again and again until the price drops to reasonable levels. This, however, is exactly what Promissory Estoppel stops them from doing.
Speaking of which...
To be clear, I am not a lawyer. While I am related to one, I am not claiming to be a legal expert. While I did read a recent article by a lawyer on this topic over on MtGgoldfish (I highly recommend it), I need to be very careful here so I am not “giving legal advice”. From what I read in the article, however, it seems that there is a lot of confusion on these boards regarding Promissory Estoppel is concerned.
From my understanding, Promissory Estoppel isn’t some mystical boogeyman that forces Wizards to obey the reserved list forever. It doesn’t even guarantee that Wizards would face lawsuits after breaking the reserved list. To summarize the article above, Promissory estoppel allows individuals to hold Wizards to their previous policy as though it were a contract in the case that they suffer damages as a result of that policy being breached.
At first glance, the math for calculating damages in MtG looks simple:
So… what does this logically mean?
1. If you were silly enough to buy a $300 card for $800 and you end up selling them for a market price of $100, you can only claim $200 and not $600.
2. If a $300 card you bought for market price drops to $200, you can’t sell it to a friend for $1 and try to make up the other $299 through Promissory Estoppel (though you could get $100).
3. If a $300 card you bought for market price drops to $200 but you sell it to a sucker for $300 anyways… you get nothing from Wizards.
Further, you may notice that these guidelines cut out a wide swath of potential collectors who might otherwise start lawsuits.
So… with all of that established, would Wizards face a litany of litigations for destroying the reserved list?
Let’s say that wizards announces one day that they are opening the loophole again. They provide a week of articles from the entire team explaining their rationale and providing a bunch of assurances to collectors restore confidence (an informal list of cards “too valuable to reprint”, limiting reprints from the list to one per product/masterpiece series, openly advertising which card will be reprinted next, etc.). Wizards then spoils a reserved card in a From the Vaults product coming later this year. We get this:
As you might expect, some players may feel angry or uneasy about the loophole being opened up… but our earlier definition of Promissory Estoppel can’t be used yet. As mentioned, the collector would have to suffer damages as the result of the reprint. Printing a $1 card probably isn’t going to tank the value of your entire collection… or at least not directly. Also note that collectors could not respond to this spoiler by buying up every copy of of the marauder, artificially inflating the price, and suing wizards when the price falls back down. As mentioned earlier, you need the promise to be in place when you are making your purchases.
What might happen, however, is a selling panic. If a bunch of collectors decide to get out of MtG because this loophole returned and they collectively sell their cards for low prices to get out NOW, the prices start tanking and anyone who sells at the lower price can sue for damages. The problem with this is that Magic Cards (unlike Beanie Babies) have direct utility… and the expensive ones are often crazy good. If someone sells a cheap black lotus online, the odds are it will be purchased either by:
1. A player who won’t want to sell it (prices stay constant or slight increase)
2. A reseller waiting for the momentary panic to end (prices stay constant or slight increase)
As such, we would need a critical mass of collectors trying to cash out at the same time in order to make this work… and it’s honestly not clear whether that critical mass exists. Even if we do get a momentary panic, it is likely that the price will largely recover by the time anything reaches the court (meaning that legacy players who hold onto their cards won’t become legal “landmines” waiting to press further litigations whenever they leave the game.).
So… yeah. I could imagine Wizards abolishing the reserved list and reprinting cards of low to moderate price while facing little to no legal pushback… assuming that wizards can build good will with the collectors and retain enough of their trust to avoid a selling panic.
1. Removing (or finding a loophole in) the reserved list isn’t some magical event that automatically guarantees you all of the most famous cards in the game. Even in a post-RL world, Wizards has zero obligation to make Black Lotus accessible. While the reserved list is certainly an obstacle, “I want cards from the reserved list” =/= “The reserved list must go”.
2. The existence of the reserved list and promissory estoppel does not necessarily mean that you can dismiss any notion of the reserved list being removed. If it is removed, however, Wizards is strongly incentivised to implement reprints in a way that doesn’t hurt your collections.
1. (Ravnica Allegiance): You can't keep a good esper control deck down... Or Wilderness Reclamation... or Gates...
2. (War of the Spark): Guys, I know what we need! We need a cycle of really idiotic flavor text victory cards! Jace's Triumph...
3. (War of the Spark): Lets make the format with control have even more control!
When it comes to the reserved list, I'm sure that Wizards is considering possible rewards as well as costs. At this moment in time, I would expect that you are correct in stating that there is insufficient incentives to justify the risks. Reprinting a regular $100 card will likely generate similar levels of hype to printing a Palinchron (value is value) and printing the other card has less risks. In the future, when all of the high-priced normal cards have been reprinted several times over and Wizards starts facing diminishing returns on those reprints, the incentive to use RL cards may increase.
In any Risk-Reward analysis, however, you are measuring that incentive against the risks you face. For Wizards, those risks likely have a legal dimension (even if they ultimately boil down to finances). Wizards chooses to make "safer reprints" because 1) they are able to make similar quantities of money 2) without facing any legal consequences. Put another way, Wizards would have no reason to keep the RL around without the legal/financial burdens the list created for them. While I personally think that Wizards could get away with reprinting cards like Palinchron in a controlled manner, I can also respect them wanting to be conservative in this matter.
Ultimately, there's a lot that's hard to predict. While masterpiece cards have typically retained a certain level of value, this isn't guaranteed and a single wrong move or unexpected price turn could result in a wave of lawsuits (albeit small ones). There may or may not be enough investors/collectors out there to cause a selling panic when the loophole returns. Wizards may come across as less than convincing when trying to reassure collectors and prevent such a panic.
There's enough moving pieces here that I can understand why Wizards is hesitant to abandon the list. With that said, I do think that wizards would have a decent chance of doing so successfully (with minimal/no lawsuits) if they approached it in the right way. In the long run, I think we have a decent chance of seeing it abolished (though some additional cards we want may be prohibitively expensive by that point).
It's more about how would someone pitch this to their manager? I'm going to go into my bosses room right now and tell them "I think we should undo the reserved list." The strongest reason I can think of for doing it is that there are some good cards on the list that could make for an interesting draft format and help revive interest in standard.
However, someone would have to go back to historical data from standards of that Era and compare them to the current standard era, try to postulate how a new set could be built around the same concepts as that original set, and then argue somehow that it is worth it to break a promise made years ago for a scenario where designers could just come up with new cards anyway.
The next argument is that breaking the RL would bring more sales. That's all and good, but then how do those cards get sold? Many are way too high in cost to just slam into a commander set and no one really knows what the gameplay demand of the cards would be in this day and age outside of maybe commander. Plus Wizards would still have to pay developers and set design teams to build and test a draft-able set or precon product to pack the cards in. On top of which, the only people who say it would be good for business are places like SCG and such. For wizards, it costs them the same amount of money to print a RL card that has been reworked as it does anything else, and they have zero clue what the true demand is on any of the old cards outside of maybe commander staples found on EDH rec. So from their perspective, they'd be taking a lot of risk and potentially giving away potential money to the secondary businesses.
Also, I'm hoping I'm not giving the impression that I'm defending the RL here because I like it. Honestly, it was stupid to begin with that they put it up, but unless there is clear profit and minimal risks, they aren't doing it. Wizards of the coast executives are about making money and pleasing unsympathetic stockholders while the design team seems to be getting pushed into safety zone game stories and inbred design.
1. (Ravnica Allegiance): You can't keep a good esper control deck down... Or Wilderness Reclamation... or Gates...
2. (War of the Spark): Guys, I know what we need! We need a cycle of really idiotic flavor text victory cards! Jace's Triumph...
3. (War of the Spark): Lets make the format with control have even more control!
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