If I have a Containment Priest in the field and an opponent show and tells or reanimates a Keranos, God of Storms or any other god, does it enter the battlefield? I know it wouldn't trigger any 'creature entering the battlefield' effect, but logic tells me that Keranos is a creature until it's actually on the board, therefore priest's effect would exile it before it could stop being a creature
How does it work? Thanks in advance.
PS: I tried searching for this question but couldn't find an answer.
If a Keranos controlled by an opponent would enter the battlefield and it wasn't cast, it would be exiled by Containment Priest's effect, but only if it would enter the battlefield as a creature.
C.R. 614.12 applies to Containment Priest's effect because it modifies how a permanent enters the battlefield (it can come not only "from the permanent itself", but also "from other sources"). Therefore, the effect looks at Under C.R. 614.12, when "determin[ing] which replacement effects apply and how they apply" (Containment Priest's effect is a replacement effect [C.R. 614.1a]), what is relevant are "the characteristics of the permanent as it would exist on the battlefield, taking into account ... continuous effects from the permanent's own static abilities that would apply to it once it's on the battlefield" (such as Keranos's second ability), among other things.
Note that the God creature type has no abilities or game mechanics inherent to that type, including the mechanic where the permanent in question is a creature or not depending on its controller's devotion.
EDIT (Sep. 28, 2017): Change quoted text to conform to rule change in Ixalan.
EDIT (Nov. 22, 2017): Gave more solid basis in the rules.
EDIT (Mar. 20, 2018): Correctness edit.
If Keranos would enter the battlefield and it wasn't cast, it would be exiled by Containment Priest's effect, but only if it would enter the battlefield as a creature.
C.R. 614.12 applies to Containment Priest's effect because it modifies how a permanent enters the battlefield (it can come not only "from the permanent itself", but also "from other sources"). Therefore, the effect looks at "the permanent as it would exist on the battlefield, taking into account ... continuous effects from the permanent’s own static abilities", among other things.
Would that mean that it still enters? Isn't it contradictory to gatherer rulings?
"The type-changing ability that can make the God not be a creature functions only on the battlefield. It’s always a creature card in other zones, regardless of your devotion to its color"
I mean, how can the effect look at what the card would be in the field when devotion rules say the opposite?
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Would that mean that it still enters? Isn't it contradictory to gatherer rulings?
"The type-changing ability that can make the God not be a creature functions only on the battlefield. It’s always a creature card in other zones, regardless of your devotion to its color"
I mean, how can the effect look at what the card would be in the field when devotion rules say the opposite?
It doesn't mean that it still enters the battlefield. Containment Priest's effect looks at the "permanent as it would exist on the battlefield", that is, without regard to Containment Priest's effect, to see whether the effect applies or not (C.R. 614.12). Therefore, if a Keranos controlled by an opponent would be a creature on the battlefield and would enter the battlefield without regard to Containment Priest's effect, it will be exiled instead. A similar effect is found in Authority of the Consuls; in that case, if the same Keranos would enter the battlefield as a creature without regard to Authority of the Consuls's effect, it will become tapped.
My opponent does NOT have enough devotion for the God, just edited the OG post.
Quote from Rules »
614.12. Some replacement effects modify how a permanent enters the battlefield. (See rules 614.1c–d.) Such effects may come from the permanent itself if they affect only that permanent (as opposed to a general subset of permanents that includes it). They may also come from other sources. To determine which replacement effects apply and how they apply, check the characteristics of the permanent as it would exist on the battlefield, taking into account replacement effects that have already modified how it enters the battlefield (see rule 616.1), continuous effects generated by the resolution of spells or abilities that changed the permanent’s characteristics on the stack (see rule 400.7a), and continuous effects from the permanent’s own static abilities, but ignoring continuous effects from any other source that would affect it.
Doesn't that mean thet CP's ability would affect how it enters the battlefield by making it transition to exile instead of the battlefield? Man rules are confusing..
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Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
In Lorwyn's brief evenings, the sun pauses at the horizon long enough for a certain species of violet to bloom with the fragrance of mischief.
The part of the rule you highlighted, "taking into account replacement effects that have already modified how it enters the battlefield", refers only to other replacement effects, but in your scenario there are no others (the only replacement effect here is Containment Priest's effect). It would have been clearer if C.R. 614.12 had said "Some replacement effects modify whether or how a permanent enters the battlefield" instead of "...modify how a permanent enters the battlefield" (and with a like modification to C.R. 614.12a); with the former wording, that rule would clearly apply to Containment Priest's effect.
In your scenario, if Keranos would not be a creature if it would enter the battlefield (without regard to Containment Priest's effect), Keranos would not be exiled.
How does it work? Thanks in advance.
PS: I tried searching for this question but couldn't find an answer.
EDIT: My opponent does NOT have enough devotion.
C.R. 614.12 applies to Containment Priest's effect because it modifies how a permanent enters the battlefield (it can come not only "from the permanent itself", but also "from other sources"). Therefore, the effect looks atUnder C.R. 614.12, when "determin[ing] which replacement effects apply and how they apply" (Containment Priest's effect is a replacement effect [C.R. 614.1a]), what is relevant are "the characteristics of the permanent as it would exist on the battlefield, taking into account ... continuous effects from the permanent's own static abilities that would apply to it once it's on the battlefield" (such as Keranos's second ability), among other things.Note that the God creature type has no abilities or game mechanics inherent to that type, including the mechanic where the permanent in question is a creature or not depending on its controller's devotion.
EDIT (Sep. 28, 2017): Change quoted text to conform to rule change in Ixalan.
EDIT (Nov. 22, 2017): Gave more solid basis in the rules.
EDIT (Mar. 20, 2018): Correctness edit.
Would that mean that it still enters? Isn't it contradictory to gatherer rulings?
"The type-changing ability that can make the God not be a creature functions only on the battlefield. It’s always a creature card in other zones, regardless of your devotion to its color"
I mean, how can the effect look at what the card would be in the field when devotion rules say the opposite?
It doesn't mean that it still enters the battlefield. Containment Priest's effect looks at the "permanent as it would exist on the battlefield", that is, without regard to Containment Priest's effect, to see whether the effect applies or not (C.R. 614.12). Therefore, if a Keranos controlled by an opponent would be a creature on the battlefield and would enter the battlefield without regard to Containment Priest's effect, it will be exiled instead. A similar effect is found in Authority of the Consuls; in that case, if the same Keranos would enter the battlefield as a creature without regard to Authority of the Consuls's effect, it will become tapped.
Doesn't that mean thet CP's ability would affect how it enters the battlefield by making it transition to exile instead of the battlefield? Man rules are confusing..
The part of the rule you highlighted, "taking into account replacement effects that have already modified how it enters the battlefield", refers only to other replacement effects, but in your scenario there are no others (the only replacement effect here is Containment Priest's effect). It would have been clearer if C.R. 614.12 had said "Some replacement effects modify whether or how a permanent enters the battlefield" instead of "...modify how a permanent enters the battlefield" (and with a like modification to C.R. 614.12a); with the former wording, that rule would clearly apply to Containment Priest's effect.
In your scenario, if Keranos would not be a creature if it would enter the battlefield (without regard to Containment Priest's effect), Keranos would not be exiled.
EDIT (Dec. 5, 2017): Correctness edit.
Thanks for the patience and fast responses. Kudos to you!
PS: Merry xmas!