So i understand that flickering a creature will remove all counters on the original object, and that an ETB ability that defines a creature's power/tough in relation to it's X casting cost, must be defined as 0(zero) if i did not pay such cost for casting.
But in the case of flicker, i am wondering how that applies since the new object (creature) is not being cast when it returns from exile. Will Last known info be used to determine the value of X ??
What also confused me was this rule:
107.3k If an object’s enters-the-battlefield triggered ability or replacement effect refers to X, and the spell that became that object as it resolved had a value of X chosen for any of its costs, the value of X for that ability is the same as the value of X for that spell, although the value of X for that permanent is 0. This is an exception to rule 107.3h.
This is probably a silly question since the errata for Flicker states clearly the new object has no relation to the previous object, so the answer should be obvious. But in any case, i just want to make sure I'm not overlooking a potentially useful mechanic.
The Stonecoil Serpent will, after being flickered, enter the battlefield with 0 counters. Neither rule 107.3k nor Last Known Information (LKI) are relevant in this scenario.
If you cast a Stonecoil Serpent for X=3, it will enter the battlefield with 3 +1/+1 counters. That is what rule 107.3k does; it bridges the gap between X spells, for which X is the chosen value and permanents with X in their casting costs, for which X is 0. To restate that rule, it essentially says that "Yes, Stonecoil Serpent does indeed enter the battlefield with 3 +1/+1 counters even though X is 0 while it is on the battlefield."
If that same Serpent then becomes the target of Flicker of Fate, Last Known Information will indeed say that it had 3 +1/+1 counters on it when I left the battlefield, which would be important if it had, say, a Leaves the Battlefield trigger that cared about its counters. That's what LKI does, it lets dies and Leaves triggers function, in addition to other effects that care about what used to be in a given zone, but has just moved. The Serpent that re-enters the battlefield will then enter with 0 counters on it, and presumably die. Why? Because the creature that re-entered the battlefield is not the same one as the creature that left it. Once a card changes zones, it becomes a new object. The new Serpent was not cast (that was the one that left), and, as such, X was not set to a particular value, which then defaults to 0.
Thank you, it is clear as water and i assumed this would be the case.
Your restatement of the rule was specially helpful since i now understand it simply refers to the fact that X in the casting cost will always be zero in any zone except the stack, which can matter for cards that care about CMC of targets on the battlefield.
Appreciate the response. Cheers
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But in the case of flicker, i am wondering how that applies since the new object (creature) is not being cast when it returns from exile. Will Last known info be used to determine the value of X ??
What also confused me was this rule:
107.3k If an object’s enters-the-battlefield triggered ability or replacement effect refers to X, and the spell that became that object as it resolved had a value of X chosen for any of its costs, the value of X for that ability is the same as the value of X for that spell, although the value of X for that permanent is 0. This is an exception to rule 107.3h.
Example to be more clear:
I cast Flicker of Fate on Stonecoil Serpent
If you cast a Stonecoil Serpent for X=3, it will enter the battlefield with 3 +1/+1 counters. That is what rule 107.3k does; it bridges the gap between X spells, for which X is the chosen value and permanents with X in their casting costs, for which X is 0. To restate that rule, it essentially says that "Yes, Stonecoil Serpent does indeed enter the battlefield with 3 +1/+1 counters even though X is 0 while it is on the battlefield."
If that same Serpent then becomes the target of Flicker of Fate, Last Known Information will indeed say that it had 3 +1/+1 counters on it when I left the battlefield, which would be important if it had, say, a Leaves the Battlefield trigger that cared about its counters. That's what LKI does, it lets dies and Leaves triggers function, in addition to other effects that care about what used to be in a given zone, but has just moved. The Serpent that re-enters the battlefield will then enter with 0 counters on it, and presumably die. Why? Because the creature that re-entered the battlefield is not the same one as the creature that left it. Once a card changes zones, it becomes a new object. The new Serpent was not cast (that was the one that left), and, as such, X was not set to a particular value, which then defaults to 0.
Your restatement of the rule was specially helpful since i now understand it simply refers to the fact that X in the casting cost will always be zero in any zone except the stack, which can matter for cards that care about CMC of targets on the battlefield.
Appreciate the response. Cheers