OK my opponent in a commander game played a Stuffy Doll naming me. Later he casts Pariah on his Stuffy Doll. I have an Aura Thief in play. He activates his Pyrohemia twice killing my Aura Thief. I gained control of his Pariah (and his Pyrohemia among other things). What happens when either the Stuffy Doll or I take damage? The Pariah would redirect all damage I take to the Stuffy Doll, but the Stuffy Doll would then do the damage back to me forming a loop. I am I right that if no one can break the loop it is a tie?
Yes, that is a mandatory loop, with no choices offered by the pieces to break it. So if no one can break the loop with outside pieces, or doesn't want to do so, the game is a draw. No player is forced to break the loop, even if they have the means to do so, since those means are not part of the loop.
No player is forced to break the loop, even if they have the means to do so, since those means are not part of the loop.
This rule has been a puzzle for me for a long time.
Rule 722.5 clearly states that no player is required to break the loop, even if they have the means to do so, as long as such means are outside the loop.
And rule 722.3 clearly states that a player is required to end the loop if they can do so from inside the loop.
What boggles my mind is rule 722.6, which states a somewhat arbitrary exception to rule 722.3.
I'd be very appreciative if anyone could provide some examples illustrating how it actually differs from what is said by rule 722.3.
Specifically, how do the words 'if no player chooses to perform [B]' (722.6)
actually allow a player to escape 'must then make a different game choice' (722.3)?
Does it solely rely on the fact that the effect actually contains the word 'unless'?
Any volunteer?
What boggles my mind is rule 722.6, which states a somewhat arbitrary exception to rule 722.3.
I'd be very appreciative if anyone could provide some examples illustrating how it actually differs from what is said by rule 722.3.
Specifically, how do the words 'if no player chooses to perform [B]' (722.6)
actually allow a player to escape 'must then make a different game choice' (722.3)?
Does it solely rely on the fact that the effect actually contains the word 'unless'?
Any volunteer?
What is now C.R. 725.6 applies only to effects of the form "[A] unless [B]" (an example is Prince of Thralls), and none of the cards given in the scenario of comment 1 contain that form, so that rule doesn't apply to this scenario. See also this thread.
No player is forced to break the loop, even if they have the means to do so, since those means are not part of the loop.
This rule has been a puzzle for me for a long time.
Rule 722.5 clearly states that no player is required to break the loop, even if they have the means to do so, as long as such means are outside the loop.
And rule 722.3 clearly states that a player is required to end the loop if they can do so from inside the loop.
What boggles my mind is rule 722.6, which states a somewhat arbitrary exception to rule 722.3.
I'd be very appreciative if anyone could provide some examples illustrating how it actually differs from what is said by rule 722.3.
Specifically, how do the words 'if no player chooses to perform [B]' (722.6)
actually allow a player to escape 'must then make a different game choice' (722.3)?
Does it solely rely on the fact that the effect actually contains the word 'unless'?
Any volunteer?
722.6 does indeed appear to arbitrarily fly in the face of 722.3. According to 118.12a, "Do A unless B" is a choice. Why that kind of choice is made exempt I can't understand either. I can't find any justification for it. But as long as 722.6 exists, that's how the game works.
118.12a Some spells, activated abilities, and triggered abilities read, “[Do something] unless [a player does something else].” This means the same thing as “[A player may do something else]. If [that player doesn’t], [do something].”
What is now C.R. 725.6 was added to the comprehensive rules with Shards of Alara, and according to the September 2008 update bulletin, it was added precisely "to cover a corner case involving the Shards of Alara card Prince of Thralls (and probably some other cases)".
Former Rules Advisor
"Everything's better with pirates." - Lodge
(The Gamers: Dorkness Rising)
"Any sufficiently analyzed magic is indistinguishable from science."
(Girl Genius - Fairy Tale Theater Break - Cinderella, end of volume 8)
Rule 722.5 clearly states that no player is required to break the loop, even if they have the means to do so, as long as such means are outside the loop.
And rule 722.3 clearly states that a player is required to end the loop if they can do so from inside the loop.
What boggles my mind is rule 722.6, which states a somewhat arbitrary exception to rule 722.3.
I'd be very appreciative if anyone could provide some examples illustrating how it actually differs from what is said by rule 722.3.
Specifically, how do the words
'if no player chooses to perform [B]' (722.6)
actually allow a player to escape
'must then make a different game choice' (722.3)?
Does it solely rely on the fact that the effect actually contains the word 'unless'?
Any volunteer?
RULES OF MAGIC :
http://magic.wizards.com/en/game-info/gameplay/rules-and-formats/rules
EDIT (Apr. 21, 2022): Update rule numbering.
722.6 does indeed appear to arbitrarily fly in the face of 722.3. According to 118.12a, "Do A unless B" is a choice. Why that kind of choice is made exempt I can't understand either. I can't find any justification for it. But as long as 722.6 exists, that's how the game works.
Former Rules Advisor
"Everything's better with pirates." - Lodge
(The Gamers: Dorkness Rising)
"Any sufficiently analyzed magic is indistinguishable from science."
(Girl Genius - Fairy Tale Theater Break - Cinderella, end of volume 8)
EDIT (Apr. 21, 2022): Update rule numbering.