This happend at the local card store I go to. The owner told me about it. Not a very good kid who has problems with his nanny a such "beating them up and stuff or scaring them away." They did a sealed deck tournament sactioned with 1 Rav starter and 2 dissesions packs. He had used a deck an already made deck besides the one he sealed. One of the other better players in the area I live in Los Angeles wondered why he was beating everybody. He got kicked out of the store for good. The owner told me since it was sanctioned if he sent this information to DCI he could get the kid supended for 3 years. I was wondering what type of irfraction does this fall under when you switch decks in a limited tournament. I looked under the DCI rules but couldn't find out this or where it would fall under.
Fairly sure this is Cheating - Fraud by virtue of bringing in outside cards - this gives him a huge unfair advantage. The magnitude of the offense is pretty high since it affected the outcomes of several matches.
Fairly sure this is Cheating - Fraud by virtue of bringing in outside cards - this gives him a huge unfair advantage. The magnitude of the offense is pretty high since it affected the outcomes of several matches.
It sounds more like Cheating - Other; Fraud is usually the misrepresentation of facts outside of a specific game. It's still cheating, and all cheating gets DQ without prize. ¬_¬
On the other hand, an accidentally illegal deck is just a game loss, possibly upgraded to a match loss. I don't want anyone reading this to think "illegal deck == DQ"
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Illegal main deck (legal decklist) Illegal Main Deck (no decklist used)
Illegal main deckLIST (for events that use them)
Illegal sideboard (legal list) Illegal sideboard (no list used)
Illegal sideboard LIST (again, if lists are used)
Fixed.
Quote from Avatar of Kokusho »
If you make too many mistakes, the penalties can rack up rather quickly...:-/
Generally speaking, no matter how many errors the deck or decklist has (or the sideboard or sideboard list for that matter), it will all be taken care of with the original penalty. So, if you have 1 more Wrath of God than you should have, it is the same as having 1 more Wrath of God, missing 2 Plains, and having misregistered an Akroma's Vengeance; we try to take care of all the issues at the same time, and not apply an individual penalty for each error.
Now, it is possible that depending on the significance of the error(s) that the penalty is upgraded. But that would depend on the significance of the error involved (and I honestly can't think of anything off the top of my head here that may result in an upgrade of the penalty). But the penalty is applied only once here for an illegal deck/decklist generally despite how many errors there may actually be present.
I think the next time I manage to like 0-3 drop a PTQ, I'm think I'm going to stay in for rd 4, and just bust out with a powered Vintage deck just for kicks. This sort of blatant offense would just get a game/match loss and lighten the air, as it's OBVIOUS. Misregistering a deck will nail you usually a game loss, but adding cards and things of the like is just cheating, and cheating is bad, mmkay?
(Keep in mind, I'm on good terms with all the local TO's, so I'm almost certain I'll just get my match loss, have some laughs, give someone a free win, and drop with no further consequence).
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A: Just making sure you're prepared to get f*cking slaughtered if you A. Scrub Out ... B. Lose ot Gavin Varhey in either Nats or JSS
B: if i scrub out day 1
: ill just drop and play in jss
: and win a 10 grand scholarship
: gavin =/
A: and lose to Gavin in round 1 and have to quit magic forever
B: stop typing the word *** so much
: if i lose to that queer i will drop right then
: even if i am x-1
A: lol
B: and i will never play magic again
: no joke
I think the next time I manage to like 0-3 drop a PTQ, I'm think I'm going to stay in for rd 4, and just bust out with a powered Vintage deck just for kicks. This sort of blatant offense would just get a game/match loss and lighten the air, as it's OBVIOUS. Misregistering a deck will nail you usually a game loss, but adding cards and things of the like is just cheating, and cheating is bad, mmkay?
Actually, some judges may not take it too lightly. Firstly, it can be seen as an intentional violation of the rules; you know you're not supposed to play with a Vintage deck at a Standard event, and you're deliberately changing the deck you were playing with to something else. Secondly, it could also be taken to be unsporting conduct, as it is disruptive to the event and could certainly affect your 4th round opponent.
While it may be humorous to you, others may not feel that way. And it may certainly not be taken that way by the head judge of the tournament. I would suggest simply dropping from the event when you feel it is no longer conducive to playing in the event. Save the humor for some other time and place. Edit: I'm not trying to be mean about this, just that some judges could potentially take this very seriously, despite the attempt at humor here. As funny as some may find it, others may not and could look upon it very, very, very strictly. It is best to not take that chance at all.
Actually, some judges may not take it too lightly. Firstly, it can be seen as an intentional violation of the rules; you know you're not supposed to play with a Vintage deck at a Standard event, and you're deliberately changing the deck you were playing with to something else. Secondly, it could also be taken to be unsporting conduct, as it is disruptive to the event and could certainly affect your 4th round opponent.
While it may be humorous to you, others may not feel that way. And it may certainly not be taken that way by the head judge of the tournament. I would suggest simply dropping from the event when you feel it is no longer conducive to playing in the event. Save the humor for some other time and place. Edit: I'm not trying to be mean about this, just that some judges could potentially take this very seriously, despite the attempt at humor here. As funny as some may find it, others may not and could look upon it very, very, very strictly. It is best to not take that chance at all.
There is a precedent for jokes like this to simply be match losses (Ruel at PT Honolulu). You should prollly ask the judges pre-round tho, so it wouldn't be as disruptive.
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I think the next time I manage to like 0-3 drop a PTQ, I'm think I'm going to stay in for rd 4, and just bust out with a powered Vintage deck just for kicks. This sort of blatant offense would just get a game/match loss and lighten the air, as it's OBVIOUS. Misregistering a deck will nail you usually a game loss, but adding cards and things of the like is just cheating, and cheating is bad, mmkay?
(Keep in mind, I'm on good terms with all the local TO's, so I'm almost certain I'll just get my match loss, have some laughs, give someone a free win, and drop with no further consequence).
In any case, I wouldn't do it, however the penalty you would recieve isn't likely going to be applicable outside that event. I agree that consulting with a judge beforehand might be a good course of action.
How big of penalty would you usually recieve if you did something like playing with an illegal deck in a limited event? The store owner told me he could get a 3 year suspension just for using his deck he made which was Azorius or some type of type 2 deck in the sanctioned sealed event. Now normally would the person still get a prize if he won or would that be a forfeit of prize?
How big of penalty would you usually recieve if you did something like playing with an illegal deck in a limited event?
Intentional: DQ Without Prize
Unintentional: Depends on event, but usually will be a Game Loss.
The store owner told me he could get a 3 year suspension just for using his deck he made which was Azorius or some type of type 2 deck in the sanctioned sealed event.
The store owner could suspend the person from his store for 3 years, but the DCI is the gruop that investigates disqualifications and issues suspension for DCI events. Their decision would be based on the information given to them; I can't say anything as to if a suspension would happen or it's length if it would happen, as that occurs inside the DCI on a case-by-case basis.
Now normally would the person still get a prize if he won or would that be a forfeit of prize?
In the eyes of the DCI, a disqualification removes the participant from any prizes associated with the event. Any future compensation to the participant would be considered outside the event and is solely of the discresion of the store owner.
There is a precedent for jokes like this to simply be match losses (Ruel at PT Honolulu). You should prollly ask the judges pre-round tho, so it wouldn't be as disruptive.
I was unaware of that having actually occured. That being said, you still venture very much into the realm of whether or not a judge decides to take it very seriously or not. Again, the head judge of a tournament does have a fair amount of discretion, and while this may have been the ruling at a Pro-Tour, we've seen where exceptions have been made at the Pro-Tour (or Grand Prixes for that matter) which are not the general rule.
All I can advise is simply don't do it. Don't risk a judge deciding to apply the maximum penalty that is possible (like I said, this is an intentional violation of the rules, joking or not) in an effort to be humorous. Because it may not be a laughing matter, and could be taken seriously. While one judge may find it funny and treat it accordingly, another may take it decidely less so.
Quote from Carl »
How big of penalty would you usually recieve if you did something like playing with an illegal deck in a limited event? The store owner told me he could get a 3 year suspension just for using his deck he made which was Azorius or some type of type 2 deck in the sanctioned sealed event. Now normally would the person still get a prize if he won or would that be a forfeit of prize?
An intentional violation of the rules is considered Cheating (and there are various categories for these, but they all basically are handled the same), which results in the Disqualification of the player without prize. Subsequent to the Disqualification, there is an investigation conducted by the DCI (as the head judge of the event needs to submit a report regarding the DQ). Based on that investigation, the DCI determines whether or not a suspension is merited, and for how long. The head judge can submit any recommendations and/or opinions on the matter, but ultimately it is up to the DCI to determine how to handle any possible suspension. As bradleyjx notes, the store owner can ban the player from their store and/or events, but that does not mean that it affects the player beyond simply not being able to play at that store.
Quote from bradleyjx »
In the eyes of the DCI, a disqualification removes the participant from any prizes associated with the event.
There's actually one exception to this; that is, a Disqualification that occurs as a result of penalties being upgraded. If after repeated penalties, the player was finally DQed from the event, they would still be able to keep any prize they had earned. Otherwise, any other Disqualification is without prize.
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http://wizards.com/dci/downloads/DCI_PG_20jan05_EN.doc
The penalties range from warnings to DQs. In this case, its clearly cheating.
After that, DCI would review if further penalties are to be slapped on.
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It sounds more like Cheating - Other; Fraud is usually the misrepresentation of facts outside of a specific game. It's still cheating, and all cheating gets DQ without prize. ¬_¬
On the other hand, an accidentally illegal deck is just a game loss, possibly upgraded to a match loss. I don't want anyone reading this to think "illegal deck == DQ"
"Sufficiently advanced experience is indistinguishable from clairvoyance." -Carsten
"Ah those eyes, those horrible creepy eyes!" -Chaosof99
DCI Level 3 Judge & TO
"I do not consider myself a hero. I know only what the Vec teach:
justice must always be served and corruption must always be opposed."
Go read! I am one of the three authors of Cranial Insertion.
But seriously, if you can't remember "Woapalanne", just call me Eli.
Illegal main deck
Illegal main deckLIST (for events that use them)
Illegal sideboard
Illegal sideboard LIST (again, if lists are used)
If you make too many mistakes, the penalties can rack up rather quickly...:-/
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Fixed.
Generally speaking, no matter how many errors the deck or decklist has (or the sideboard or sideboard list for that matter), it will all be taken care of with the original penalty. So, if you have 1 more Wrath of God than you should have, it is the same as having 1 more Wrath of God, missing 2 Plains, and having misregistered an Akroma's Vengeance; we try to take care of all the issues at the same time, and not apply an individual penalty for each error.
Now, it is possible that depending on the significance of the error(s) that the penalty is upgraded. But that would depend on the significance of the error involved (and I honestly can't think of anything off the top of my head here that may result in an upgrade of the penalty). But the penalty is applied only once here for an illegal deck/decklist generally despite how many errors there may actually be present.
(Keep in mind, I'm on good terms with all the local TO's, so I'm almost certain I'll just get my match loss, have some laughs, give someone a free win, and drop with no further consequence).
Actually, some judges may not take it too lightly. Firstly, it can be seen as an intentional violation of the rules; you know you're not supposed to play with a Vintage deck at a Standard event, and you're deliberately changing the deck you were playing with to something else. Secondly, it could also be taken to be unsporting conduct, as it is disruptive to the event and could certainly affect your 4th round opponent.
While it may be humorous to you, others may not feel that way. And it may certainly not be taken that way by the head judge of the tournament. I would suggest simply dropping from the event when you feel it is no longer conducive to playing in the event. Save the humor for some other time and place. Edit: I'm not trying to be mean about this, just that some judges could potentially take this very seriously, despite the attempt at humor here. As funny as some may find it, others may not and could look upon it very, very, very strictly. It is best to not take that chance at all.
There is a precedent for jokes like this to simply be match losses (Ruel at PT Honolulu). You should prollly ask the judges pre-round tho, so it wouldn't be as disruptive.
Check out the fourth post here.
In any case, I wouldn't do it, however the penalty you would recieve isn't likely going to be applicable outside that event. I agree that consulting with a judge beforehand might be a good course of action.
Intentional: DQ Without Prize
Unintentional: Depends on event, but usually will be a Game Loss.
The store owner could suspend the person from his store for 3 years, but the DCI is the gruop that investigates disqualifications and issues suspension for DCI events. Their decision would be based on the information given to them; I can't say anything as to if a suspension would happen or it's length if it would happen, as that occurs inside the DCI on a case-by-case basis.
In the eyes of the DCI, a disqualification removes the participant from any prizes associated with the event. Any future compensation to the participant would be considered outside the event and is solely of the discresion of the store owner.
静
I was unaware of that having actually occured. That being said, you still venture very much into the realm of whether or not a judge decides to take it very seriously or not. Again, the head judge of a tournament does have a fair amount of discretion, and while this may have been the ruling at a Pro-Tour, we've seen where exceptions have been made at the Pro-Tour (or Grand Prixes for that matter) which are not the general rule.
All I can advise is simply don't do it. Don't risk a judge deciding to apply the maximum penalty that is possible (like I said, this is an intentional violation of the rules, joking or not) in an effort to be humorous. Because it may not be a laughing matter, and could be taken seriously. While one judge may find it funny and treat it accordingly, another may take it decidely less so.
An intentional violation of the rules is considered Cheating (and there are various categories for these, but they all basically are handled the same), which results in the Disqualification of the player without prize. Subsequent to the Disqualification, there is an investigation conducted by the DCI (as the head judge of the event needs to submit a report regarding the DQ). Based on that investigation, the DCI determines whether or not a suspension is merited, and for how long. The head judge can submit any recommendations and/or opinions on the matter, but ultimately it is up to the DCI to determine how to handle any possible suspension. As bradleyjx notes, the store owner can ban the player from their store and/or events, but that does not mean that it affects the player beyond simply not being able to play at that store.
There's actually one exception to this; that is, a Disqualification that occurs as a result of penalties being upgraded. If after repeated penalties, the player was finally DQed from the event, they would still be able to keep any prize they had earned. Otherwise, any other Disqualification is without prize.