If Melira, Sylvok Outcast causes creatures with persist to not enter the battlefield with minus counters, then the Menace should cause creatures to enter the battlefield with double counters.
My only apprehension is that the Menace references 'creatures' and that the horror isn't a creature when the counters are being put on it - the horror is a spell, and creature typically refers to creature permanents, aka creatures in play. However, it's the same wording as Melira and I know that Melira affects how counters are put onto persisting creatures, so I'm inclined to say the Menace doubles the counters, even of undying creatures like Geralf's Messenger. Relevant Ruling - If a creature you control would enter the battlefield with a number of +1/+1 counters on it, it enters with twice that many instead.
So I was right. It does double the counters for the Horror.
If Melira, Sylvok Outcast causes creatures with persist to not enter the battlefield with minus counters, then the Menace should cause creatures to enter the battlefield with double counters.
This is correct
My only apprehension is that the Menace references 'creatures' and that the horror isn't a creature when the counters are being put on it - the horror is a spell, and creature typically refers to creature permanents, aka creatures in play.
The horror is a creature when the counters are placed on it. +1/+1 can't be placed on a spell (by any existing spell/ability, and I'm not sure if the rules support it).
EDIT:
alrighty, just did some rules-lookuping:
The horror's effect is a replacement effect. This means that it enters the battlefield and 2 counters are placed on it then. This occurs before sba's are checked, but after it is on the field. Hence the menace does double the counters.
I guess OP wants it to be 'keyworded' like "dies" was. What word would you replace ETB with though?
When Aegis Angel is born?
When Huntmaster of the Fells arrives?
When Kitchen Sphinx lands?
When Faerie Imposter busts in?
When Dread Cacodemon pops in?
When Malfegor shows up?
To post a comment, please login or register a new account.
My only apprehension is that the Menace references 'creatures' and that the horror isn't a creature when the counters are being put on it - the horror is a spell, and creature typically refers to creature permanents, aka creatures in play. However, it's the same wording as Melira and I know that Melira affects how counters are put onto persisting creatures, so I'm inclined to say the Menace doubles the counters, even of undying creatures like Geralf's Messenger.
Relevant Ruling - If a creature you control would enter the battlefield with a number of +1/+1 counters on it, it enters with twice that many instead.
So I was right. It does double the counters for the Horror.
This is correct
The horror is a creature when the counters are placed on it. +1/+1 can't be placed on a spell (by any existing spell/ability, and I'm not sure if the rules support it).
EDIT:
alrighty, just did some rules-lookuping:
The horror's effect is a replacement effect. This means that it enters the battlefield and 2 counters are placed on it then. This occurs before sba's are checked, but after it is on the field. Hence the menace does double the counters.