Now, assuming both players have infinite mana...is there ever any chance that Player B will be able to destroy any of Player A's creatures, or will Player A always be able to give them protection and save them?
What if we had the same scenario, only instead of Armored Guardian, Player A had Azorius Guildmage? Would it just result in a deadlock of Player B trying to destroy the Guildmage the elemental's ability, Player A countering Deepfire's Ability, Player B responding by trying to destroy it again ad nauseum?
Final scenario:
Player A controls Deceiver Exarch enchanted with Splinter twin. Player B casts Doom Blade on Exarch. Does Player A get to make infinite Exarch tokens before Doom Blade can destroy the original or do they only get a chance to make one copy? I guess I'm kind of confused about priority.
1) it depends on which player is the active player (or the one next in natural turn order), as in a tournament when we get to a loop of actions we force the active player to choose to do something differently. (same is true for guildmage).
2) he can make infinite the stack has objects resolve one at a time and each player gets priority between each object resolving. So the player makes a token lets the etb resolve and can then activate it again before doom blade resolves (which he can repeat an arbitrary large amount of times.
In the first scenario, there really is a way to destroy the creatures. If a loop involves optional actions from both players, the active player most stop first, so player B can destroy all player A's creatures on player A's turn. It doesn't matter whether they have Armored Guardian or Azorius Guildmage.
The rule that officially handles the situation is this one:
"716.3. Sometimes a loop can be fragmented, meaning that each player involved in the loop performs an independent action that results in the same game state being reached multiple times. If that happens, the active player (or, if the active player is not involved in the loop, the first player in turn order who is involved) must then make a different game choice so the loop does not continue."
While the term "same game state" is undefined in the rules, the situation you mention is still (as far as I know) officially categorized as handled by this rule. In other words, the active player is disadvantaged here, as he's the one who must break the loop by doing something else.
So if it was the turn of the player who controlled the Deepfire Elemental and the deadlock I mentioned was taking place, if that player passed turn then the player controlling armored Guardian would be the active player and as such they would "lose" the protection battle and get their board wiped?
I used to play Type 4 a lot and this sort of situation comes up often in that format but I never really knew how to proceed
In the final scenario, Doom Blade player has to wait combo player to start the combo, then destroy enchanted Exarch
combo goes like this:
A player have Untaped Exarch enchanted with Splinter twin
Taps exarch, paying cost to activate ability granted by Splinter Twin to get token copy of itself wants it to resolve, passing priority
when token copy enters the battlefield, chooses "untap" mode for it's ETB trigger, targets original exarch wants it to resolve, passing priority
Now said player is in the same state as at the start of a combo, but have one extra token. I underlined weak spots of the combo, where Doom Blade player have to act and don't let it resolve. If he or she doom blades original exarch while it is taped (or tapped and targeted by triggered ability) combo player will be unable to rerun the combo. Basically, you are unable to prevent creation of at least one token, since exarch gets enchanted by Splinter Twin, but have a chance to stop the rest of the combo
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Standard Curses
Satsuki-Extraction-Puppeteer-Cruelty
Explorer Stun Counters Proliferate
Azor-Feather Blink Control
The rule that officially handles the situation is this one:
"716.3. Sometimes a loop can be fragmented, meaning that each player involved in the loop performs an independent action that results in the same game state being reached multiple times. If that happens, the active player (or, if the active player is not involved in the loop, the first player in turn order who is involved) must then make a different game choice so the loop does not continue."
While the term "same game state" is undefined in the rules, the situation you mention is still (as far as I know) officially categorized as handled by this rule. In other words, the active player is disadvantaged here, as he's the one who must break the loop by doing something else.
So if it was the turn of the player who controlled the Deepfire Elemental and the deadlock I mentioned was taking place, if that player passed turn then the player controlling armored Guardian would be the active player and as such they would "lose" the protection battle and get their board wiped?
I used to play Type 4 a lot and this sort of situation comes up often in that format but I never really knew how to proceed
This is correct. The active player has the responsibility to make a play (or lack thereof) in such a manner as to allow the game state to progress. In this scenario, that involves not protecting their creatures against the opposing Elemental.
In the final scenario, Doom Blade player has to wait combo player to start the combo, then destroy enchanted Exarch
The Doom Blade player doesn't have to do anything. However, waiting with the Doom Blade is the 'correct' play.
If the Doom Blade is cast while the Deceiver Exarch is capable of activating the ability granted by Splinter Twin, then they can generate infinite tokens in response to the Doom Blade. If however the Doom Blade is cast in response to either the Splinter Twin granted ability activation, or the Exarch's enter the battlefield trigger, then the player can effectively stop the infinite loop.
The preferred time to cast Doom Blade in this scenario is in fact in response to the ETB trigger, after targets have been declared. If the Exarch is destroyed in response to the copy ability, the player can simply choose another intended mode & target for the trigger.
Let's assume both players have infinite mana
Player A controls Armored Guardian and Player B casts Deepfire Elemental.
Now, assuming both players have infinite mana...is there ever any chance that Player B will be able to destroy any of Player A's creatures, or will Player A always be able to give them protection and save them?
What if we had the same scenario, only instead of Armored Guardian, Player A had Azorius Guildmage? Would it just result in a deadlock of Player B trying to destroy the Guildmage the elemental's ability, Player A countering Deepfire's Ability, Player B responding by trying to destroy it again ad nauseum?
Final scenario:
Player A controls Deceiver Exarch enchanted with Splinter twin. Player B casts Doom Blade on Exarch. Does Player A get to make infinite Exarch tokens before Doom Blade can destroy the original or do they only get a chance to make one copy? I guess I'm kind of confused about priority.
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2) he can make infinite the stack has objects resolve one at a time and each player gets priority between each object resolving. So the player makes a token lets the etb resolve and can then activate it again before doom blade resolves (which he can repeat an arbitrary large amount of times.
So if it was the turn of the player who controlled the Deepfire Elemental and the deadlock I mentioned was taking place, if that player passed turn then the player controlling armored Guardian would be the active player and as such they would "lose" the protection battle and get their board wiped?
I used to play Type 4 a lot and this sort of situation comes up often in that format but I never really knew how to proceed
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combo goes like this:
A player have Untaped Exarch enchanted with Splinter twin
Taps exarch, paying cost to activate ability granted by Splinter Twin to get token copy of itself
wants it to resolve, passing priority
when token copy enters the battlefield, chooses "untap" mode for it's ETB trigger, targets original exarch
wants it to resolve, passing priority
Now said player is in the same state as at the start of a combo, but have one extra token. I underlined weak spots of the combo, where Doom Blade player have to act and don't let it resolve. If he or she doom blades original exarch while it is taped (or tapped and targeted by triggered ability) combo player will be unable to rerun the combo. Basically, you are unable to prevent creation of at least one token, since exarch gets enchanted by Splinter Twin, but have a chance to stop the rest of the combo
Standard Curses
Satsuki-Extraction-Puppeteer-Cruelty
Explorer Stun Counters Proliferate
Azor-Feather Blink Control
This is correct. The active player has the responsibility to make a play (or lack thereof) in such a manner as to allow the game state to progress. In this scenario, that involves not protecting their creatures against the opposing Elemental.
GX Tron XG
UR Phoenix RU
GG Freyalise High Tide GG
UR Parun Counterspells RU
BB Yawgmoth Token Storm BB
WB Pestilence BW
The Doom Blade player doesn't have to do anything. However, waiting with the Doom Blade is the 'correct' play.
If the Doom Blade is cast while the Deceiver Exarch is capable of activating the ability granted by Splinter Twin, then they can generate infinite tokens in response to the Doom Blade. If however the Doom Blade is cast in response to either the Splinter Twin granted ability activation, or the Exarch's enter the battlefield trigger, then the player can effectively stop the infinite loop.
The preferred time to cast Doom Blade in this scenario is in fact in response to the ETB trigger, after targets have been declared. If the Exarch is destroyed in response to the copy ability, the player can simply choose another intended mode & target for the trigger.
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