I think I already know the answer, but I thought Id ask the community anyway.
Lets say my deck has MB 4 Delver of Secrets, and some number of SB Huntmasters.
If I also had 2 spare delvers and 1 spare hunt master, in different sleeves, marked as "flip only". Would a judge consider that legal? Obviously I would ask a judge before I begin the tourney. Just curious.
I just want to avoid removing my flip cards all the time, and since my deck is foiled, I dont want an ugly check card in there either (probably also not legal to have 4 non foil in an otherwise foiled deck).
If people are sick of reading about stuff just stop taking part. You have 100% control over what you read. Simic Ascendancy isn't going to get banned just because you didn't tell someone to shut up on the internet.
First, those cards are double faced cards. Flip cards are something else (eg. Nezumi Graverobber).
Second, wether a card is foil or not has no impact on its legality. There's no reason why some nonfoil cards would be illegal just becasue the rest of the deck happens to consist of only foil cards.
Third, and you main question, there shouldn't be any problem with exchanging your transformed cards with stand ins while they are on the battlefield. So long as you don't confuse the game state by doing this. I'd recommend using those stand ins like the morph or manifested "cards" from Khans block, simply putting them on top of the actual card if they are transformed to their night side.
This is allowed as long as the spare copies are not sleeved in the same way as the rest of the deck and sideboard. The following is the relevant excerpt from the Infraction Procedure Guide document:
Quote from IPG 3.5 »
...if there are extra cards stored with the sideboard that could conceivably be played in the player’s deck, they will be considered a part of the sideboard unless they are:
• Promotional cards that have been handed out as part of the tournament.
• Double-faced cards represented by checklist cards in the deck.
• Double-faced cards being used to represent the ‘night’ side of cards in the deck.
These cards must not be sleeved in the same way as cards in the main deck and/or sideboard.
I do not know of a tournament rules that covers this, so it is judge by judge. I would be wary, I doubt most would allow it.
Thanks, yea I figured its a grey zone. Im really not trying to cheat (especially with these cards), I just want an easy way to flip and not forget to unflip, etc...
My plan would be to always let a judge know anyway, and if they are against it, Id just put them away.
Thank you to all. That has cleared up quite a bit. I will make sure I:
a) clearly mark the stand-ins as flip only and not sleeve them anywhere close to the rest of the deck
b) inform the head judge before any competitive tournament
Also, in regards to foils mixing with foils. I was sure there was some issues when players would purposely foil certain cards and not others to make those cards stand out from the rest.
Also, in regards to foils mixing with foils. I was sure there was some issues when players would purposely foil certain cards and not others to make those cards stand out from the rest.
If somehow the nonfoil cards can be distinguished from the foil ones while face down, then those cards are considered marked, and you could fall under suspicion of cheating. But from a sole rules standpoint, mixing foils and nonfoils is not forbidden.
Lets say my deck has MB 4 Delver of Secrets, and some number of SB Huntmasters.
If I also had 2 spare delvers and 1 spare hunt master, in different sleeves, marked as "flip only". Would a judge consider that legal? Obviously I would ask a judge before I begin the tourney. Just curious.
I just want to avoid removing my flip cards all the time, and since my deck is foiled, I dont want an ugly check card in there either (probably also not legal to have 4 non foil in an otherwise foiled deck).
RUG Temur Deprive Delver
BUG Sultai Deprive Delver
Second, wether a card is foil or not has no impact on its legality. There's no reason why some nonfoil cards would be illegal just becasue the rest of the deck happens to consist of only foil cards.
Third, and you main question, there shouldn't be any problem with exchanging your transformed cards with stand ins while they are on the battlefield. So long as you don't confuse the game state by doing this. I'd recommend using those stand ins like the morph or manifested "cards" from Khans block, simply putting them on top of the actual card if they are transformed to their night side.
Former Rules Advisor
"Everything's better with pirates." - Lodge
(The Gamers: Dorkness Rising)
"Any sufficiently analyzed magic is indistinguishable from science."
(Girl Genius - Fairy Tale Theater Break - Cinderella, end of volume 8)
I'm Mike, from The Mana Pool.
Check out my Tapped Out profile and comment on my decks!
Thanks, yea I figured its a grey zone. Im really not trying to cheat (especially with these cards), I just want an easy way to flip and not forget to unflip, etc...
My plan would be to always let a judge know anyway, and if they are against it, Id just put them away.
RUG Temur Deprive Delver
BUG Sultai Deprive Delver
a) clearly mark the stand-ins as flip only and not sleeve them anywhere close to the rest of the deck
b) inform the head judge before any competitive tournament
Also, in regards to foils mixing with foils. I was sure there was some issues when players would purposely foil certain cards and not others to make those cards stand out from the rest.
RUG Temur Deprive Delver
BUG Sultai Deprive Delver
If somehow the nonfoil cards can be distinguished from the foil ones while face down, then those cards are considered marked, and you could fall under suspicion of cheating. But from a sole rules standpoint, mixing foils and nonfoils is not forbidden.
Former Rules Advisor
"Everything's better with pirates." - Lodge
(The Gamers: Dorkness Rising)
"Any sufficiently analyzed magic is indistinguishable from science."
(Girl Genius - Fairy Tale Theater Break - Cinderella, end of volume 8)