I wouldn't say Atlas was a reference, since the art suggests the boulder is against a mountain to be rolled up as opposed to holding up a celestial sphere.
I think that Titan's Strength will be a reference to Sisyphus since it involves a rock. Plus Atlas never held up the world - that's a myth, for want of a better word! According to the stories he held up the sky.
Not sure about Polis Crusher, but I know that 'polis' is the quintessential Greek city-state.
“There are no weak Jews. I am descended from those who wrestle angels and kill giants. We were chosen by God. You were chosen by a pathetic little man who can't seem to grow a full mustache"
"You can tell how dumb someone is by how they use Mary Sue"
I think that Titan's Strength will be a reference to Sisyphus since it involves a rock. Plus Atlas never held up the world - that's a myth, for want of a better word! According to the stories he held up the sky.
Not sure about Polis Crusher, but I know that 'polis' is the quintessential Greek city-state.
Not sure about Polis Crusher, but I know that 'polis' is the quintessential Greek city-state.
The three city-states in Theros (Meletis, Akros, and Setessa) are consistently referred to as "polis" so I think the Crusher is less a reference to the ideal Greek city-state and more a reference to it stepping on Therosan cities.
Voyage's End is essentially the same case, isn't it?
One, maybe a little far-fetched reference can be Sylvan Caryatid. I am speaking about Philemon and Baucis, the old pair that showed hospitality to Zeus and were then rewarded to remain together in forms of intertwining oak and linden tree. Though pretty much only thing in common is the human-to-tree metamorphosis.
EDIT:
One more thing: Purphoros is inspired by Hephaestus, that's right, but all the passion, fickleness and overall image are quite fitting elements of Ares implemented into the character.
“There are no weak Jews. I am descended from those who wrestle angels and kill giants. We were chosen by God. You were chosen by a pathetic little man who can't seem to grow a full mustache"
"You can tell how dumb someone is by how they use Mary Sue"
Elspeth may be a slight play on Athena as well, having the favor of Zeus (Heliod) and maybe a little Pop culture Xena as well.
Hoping for an Adonis, more Oracles (Pythia as a Legendary), Aphrodite's making roses red, King Aegis and the Aegean sea, the Lotus eaters, the tempest that blows Odysseus off course, Jason and the Argonauts, Helen of Troy (or is she from Anax and Cymede?), soothsayers, etc.
I too am disappointed with making what should have been Legendary creatures into races/tribes instead. What happened to the set having above average Legendaries?
I hope they expand more on the Dakra isles as an analog to the Cyclades. Especially Santorini, since there are legitimate theories that it may have been Atlantis (and at least had a volcanic eruption then).
Maro confirmed that Thassa has elements of Athena, sorry for not updating right away but I wanted a 100% on the subject.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
“There are no weak Jews. I am descended from those who wrestle angels and kill giants. We were chosen by God. You were chosen by a pathetic little man who can't seem to grow a full mustache"
"You can tell how dumb someone is by how they use Mary Sue"
Has Heliod's similarity to Sol Invictus been discussed?
No, because as WotC has stated numerous times, they made a specific effort to only reference Greek culture/mythology, and Sol Invictus was a Roman god worshiped by soldiers.
Anax and Cymede- Agamemnon and Clytemnestra (or Agamemnon and Cassandra). Anax is an ancient Greek word for king.
Other than their initials, where are you getting this association? The flavor text doesn't seem to match either a king and his murderess or a king and his slave-girl.
They are "Akros' greatest heroes and also it's royalty" which, if Akros is Troy (as the Akroan Horse seems to suggest) then they would be either Priam and Hekuba or Hektor and Andromache.
Although the Trojan war doesn't really have any female heroes as such, so I think it would be hard to find an exact match. In fact, I can't really think of any heroic queens in Greek myth, unless plain tragedy is counted as heroism.
Other than their initials, where are you getting this association? The flavor text doesn't seem to match either a king and his murderess or a king and his slave-girl.
They are "Akros' greatest heroes and also it's royalty" which, if Akros is Troy (as the Akroan Horse seems to suggest) then they would be either Priam and Hekuba or Hektor and Andromache.
Although the Trojan war doesn't really have any female heroes as such, so I think it would be hard to find an exact match. In fact, I can't really think of any heroic queens in Greek myth, unless plain tragedy is counted as heroism.
The closest pair I can think of, actually, is Jason and Medea. Obviously not as they ended up, but back when they were actively working together. If I recall correctly, Cyamede is a priestess of a god not usually worshipped in Akros, so there's that part of the analogy as well.
No, because as WotC has stated numerous times, they made a specific effort to only reference Greek culture/mythology, and Sol Invictus was a Roman god worshiped by soldiers.
Yes, I know he was a Roman god. I bring it up because of this fact.
-His spear is an anthem effect in white that traditionally is used in white weenie decks, which often times feature soldiers.
-Both are gods of the Sun
-Of course, it is argued that Sol Invictus shares some commonality with Helios, because it may be that Sol Invictus is based on Helios. So maybe Heliod really is a Greco-Roman reference, not just Greek.
Heliod just doesn't really match Greek myth at all.
Not only is he not a close one-to-one match to any particular god, he is not Greek in flavor - a "white mana" style of inflexible morality just doesn't synch with the lustful, passionate character of the Olympians.
Sol Invictus is a better match because Heliod's character is a lot more Roman than it is Greek.
The Opaline Unicorn is perhaps a reference to the Ceryneian Hind, a sacred beast attributed to Artemis with golden antlers and hooves of brass, while some of its physical characteristics related to the Burnished Hart.
I hope they expand more on the Dakra isles as an analog to the Cyclades. Especially Santorini, since there are legitimate theories that it may have been Atlantis (and at least had a volcanic eruption then).
*I'm not opposed to pop culture references, but I am opposed to ignorance (as in not knowing something, I don't mean this as a derogatory term, I just can't think of a different word to use for this)*
Just getting on my soapbox here, but you do realize that Atlantis originated as a purely theoretical scenario. The first mention of the city was by Plato, and he stated that the city was purely hypothetical. Personally, I'd be a little angered if WotC made a reference to it, simply because it would just be perpetuating a myth that should never have existed. Cities being destroyed by volcanoes or floods makes sense, but no city by the name of Atlantis ever existed (at least before Plato mentioned it).
Heliod just doesn't really match Greek myth at all.
Not only is he not a close one-to-one match to any particular god, he is not Greek in flavor - a "white mana" style of inflexible morality just doesn't synch with the lustful, passionate character of the Olympians.
Sol Invictus is a better match because Heliod's character is a lot more Roman than it is Greek.
He is convivial and gregarious, making friends and forming bonds easily, and he sees himself as the ally to all. But others know that Heliod can be fickle in his loyalty. Heliod's greatest ally today might be the target of his retribution tomorrow.
The text you link describes him as having no loyalty to his allies when they come due for "retribution".
Personal revenge is something Zeus and Apollos get into quite a bit ("You insulted my mother? Your children must die!"). Retribution that takes no account of personal loyalties isn't.
Just getting on my soapbox here, but you do realize that Atlantis originated as a purely theoretical scenario. The first mention of the city was by Plato, and he stated that the city was purely hypothetical. Personally, I'd be a little angered if WotC made a reference to it, simply because it would just be perpetuating a myth that should never have existed. Cities being destroyed by volcanoes or floods makes sense, but no city by the name of Atlantis ever existed (at least before Plato mentioned it).
Keep in mind that Theros is not directly based on Greek mythology, but based on pop culture's idea of Greek mythology - hence the presence of Shipbreaker Kraken. Pop culture associates Atlantis with Greek mythology, regardless of the reality, and Atlantis is a concept virtually everyone is familiar with, so I would fully expect we'll get to see more of Theros' version of Atlantis as the block goes on.
As for Anax and Cymede, I thought they were fairly obviously based on King Leonidas and Queen Gorgo (more from the film version of 300 than their historical counterparts), given the Akros / Sparta connection.
It also bears mentioning that the Trojan Horse(Akroan horse in MtG), while mentioned in the Odyssey, the most detailed account we have of the Trojan Horse as a ploy to fool the Trojans comes from Virgil's "Aeneid." Virgil was a Roman poet. I don't think it would be too much of a stretch to call the Akroan Horse a Greco-Roman reference.
After reading a post on the theros patheon topic, I really thinking that Purphoros have elements of Aphrodite in him, since better know as the goddess of love, Aphrodite is also the goddess of passions. Thoughts?
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
“There are no weak Jews. I am descended from those who wrestle angels and kill giants. We were chosen by God. You were chosen by a pathetic little man who can't seem to grow a full mustache"
"You can tell how dumb someone is by how they use Mary Sue"
Keep in mind that Theros is not directly based on Greek mythology, but based on pop culture's idea of Greek mythology - hence the presence of Shipbreaker Kraken. Pop culture associates Atlantis with Greek mythology, regardless of the reality, and Atlantis is a concept virtually everyone is familiar with, so I would fully expect we'll get to see more of Theros' version of Atlantis as the block goes on.
As for Anax and Cymede, I thought they were fairly obviously based on King Leonidas and Queen Gorgo (more from the film version of 300 than their historical counterparts), given the Akros / Sparta connection.
On pop culture, I understand that and sales, but IMO myths treated as 'fact' should not be perpetuated. I'll admit I'm more overreacting to the Atlantis thing. I disagree with your desire for an Atlantis, but the Dakra Isles do seem very interesting and worthy of a story or two of their own. I just hate the Atlantis myth.
Also, Anax and Cymede, while undoubtedly visually based on 300, also have roots in other Greek tales. Their are many king-queen duos one could make an argument for them representing.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Haven't played anything but EDH and casual for over a year
On pop culture, I understand that and sales, but IMO myths treated as 'fact' should not be perpetuated. I'll admit I'm more overreacting to the Atlantis thing. I disagree with your desire for an Atlantis, but the Dakra Isles do seem very interesting and worthy of a story or two of their own. I just hate the Atlantis myth.
*Shrugs* The Gods destroying a city for its hubris is a very resonant concept, seen in Greek mythology (Baucis_and_Philemon), as well as the myths and legends of many other cultures. In particular, divine destruction by flood is a common mythic theme.
Atlantis may specifically have been a literary creation of Plato to make an allegorical point about contemporary Athens, but he was drawing upon themes already present in Greek legend, and therefore I see the idea as fair game and deserving of representation in Theros. On the other hand, as I recall, the destruction of the Thran owes a lot to Edgar Cayce's version of Atlantis (speaking of nonsense being taken as truth...), so WotC may not want to trod the same thematic ground again.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
To post a comment, please login or register a new account.
Fanatic of Mogis is closer to Flametongue Kavu than to Mogg Fanatic, being that it is a 4/2 for 3R with a come in to play ability that deals damage.
---
Numquam evolutioni obstes. Solum conculceris.
Pascite draconem, evolvite aut morimini.
I think that Titan's Strength will be a reference to Sisyphus since it involves a rock. Plus Atlas never held up the world - that's a myth, for want of a better word! According to the stories he held up the sky.
Not sure about Polis Crusher, but I know that 'polis' is the quintessential Greek city-state.
Level 1 Judge
I write flavor articles for RoxieCards.
I play and judge at Giga Bites Cafein Marietta, Georgia.
Updated
When did we start talking about Polis Crusher?
"You can tell how dumb someone is by how they use Mary Sue"
I said celestial sphere for a reason.
The three city-states in Theros (Meletis, Akros, and Setessa) are consistently referred to as "polis" so I think the Crusher is less a reference to the ideal Greek city-state and more a reference to it stepping on Therosan cities.
@_kaburi_ on Twitter
Special thanks to Serrot_29 for Catbug'mrakul!
Voyage's End is essentially the same case, isn't it?
One, maybe a little far-fetched reference can be Sylvan Caryatid. I am speaking about Philemon and Baucis, the old pair that showed hospitality to Zeus and were then rewarded to remain together in forms of intertwining oak and linden tree. Though pretty much only thing in common is the human-to-tree metamorphosis.
EDIT:
One more thing: Purphoros is inspired by Hephaestus, that's right, but all the passion, fickleness and overall image are quite fitting elements of Ares implemented into the character.
EDIT 2:
...and Anax is an old Greek (precisely Mycenaean) honorary title, meaning "king". So King Anax is essentially King King.
Let this great clan rest in peace (2001-2011)
"You can tell how dumb someone is by how they use Mary Sue"
Maro confirmed that Thassa has elements of Athena, sorry for not updating right away but I wanted a 100% on the subject.
"You can tell how dumb someone is by how they use Mary Sue"
No, because as WotC has stated numerous times, they made a specific effort to only reference Greek culture/mythology, and Sol Invictus was a Roman god worshiped by soldiers.
@_kaburi_ on Twitter
Special thanks to Serrot_29 for Catbug'mrakul!
Other than their initials, where are you getting this association? The flavor text doesn't seem to match either a king and his murderess or a king and his slave-girl.
They are "Akros' greatest heroes and also it's royalty" which, if Akros is Troy (as the Akroan Horse seems to suggest) then they would be either Priam and Hekuba or Hektor and Andromache.
Although the Trojan war doesn't really have any female heroes as such, so I think it would be hard to find an exact match. In fact, I can't really think of any heroic queens in Greek myth, unless plain tragedy is counted as heroism.
Rafiq of the Many
Kruphix, God of Horizons ~ Geist of Saint Traft ~ Trostani, Selesnya's Voice
planned: Kodama of the South Tree ~ Patron of the Moon ~ Mangara of Corondor
G ~ ~ U ~ ~ W ~ ~ G
The closest pair I can think of, actually, is Jason and Medea. Obviously not as they ended up, but back when they were actively working together. If I recall correctly, Cyamede is a priestess of a god not usually worshipped in Akros, so there's that part of the analogy as well.
Yes, I know he was a Roman god. I bring it up because of this fact.
-His spear is an anthem effect in white that traditionally is used in white weenie decks, which often times feature soldiers.
-Both are gods of the Sun
-Of course, it is argued that Sol Invictus shares some commonality with Helios, because it may be that Sol Invictus is based on Helios. So maybe Heliod really is a Greco-Roman reference, not just Greek.
Not only is he not a close one-to-one match to any particular god, he is not Greek in flavor - a "white mana" style of inflexible morality just doesn't synch with the lustful, passionate character of the Olympians.
Sol Invictus is a better match because Heliod's character is a lot more Roman than it is Greek.
Rafiq of the Many
Kruphix, God of Horizons ~ Geist of Saint Traft ~ Trostani, Selesnya's Voice
planned: Kodama of the South Tree ~ Patron of the Moon ~ Mangara of Corondor
G ~ ~ U ~ ~ W ~ ~ G
*I'm not opposed to pop culture references, but I am opposed to ignorance (as in not knowing something, I don't mean this as a derogatory term, I just can't think of a different word to use for this)*
Just getting on my soapbox here, but you do realize that Atlantis originated as a purely theoretical scenario. The first mention of the city was by Plato, and he stated that the city was purely hypothetical. Personally, I'd be a little angered if WotC made a reference to it, simply because it would just be perpetuating a myth that should never have existed. Cities being destroyed by volcanoes or floods makes sense, but no city by the name of Atlantis ever existed (at least before Plato mentioned it).
Source
Except Heliod is definitely, explicitly not the typical white stoic moral character.
He is renowned for his fickleness and tendency to turn on his former allies on a whim known only to him.
Level 1 Judge
I write flavor articles for RoxieCards.
I play and judge at Giga Bites Cafein Marietta, Georgia.
The text you link describes him as having no loyalty to his allies when they come due for "retribution".
Personal revenge is something Zeus and Apollos get into quite a bit ("You insulted my mother? Your children must die!"). Retribution that takes no account of personal loyalties isn't.
Rafiq of the Many
Kruphix, God of Horizons ~ Geist of Saint Traft ~ Trostani, Selesnya's Voice
planned: Kodama of the South Tree ~ Patron of the Moon ~ Mangara of Corondor
G ~ ~ U ~ ~ W ~ ~ G
Keep in mind that Theros is not directly based on Greek mythology, but based on pop culture's idea of Greek mythology - hence the presence of Shipbreaker Kraken. Pop culture associates Atlantis with Greek mythology, regardless of the reality, and Atlantis is a concept virtually everyone is familiar with, so I would fully expect we'll get to see more of Theros' version of Atlantis as the block goes on.
As for Anax and Cymede, I thought they were fairly obviously based on King Leonidas and Queen Gorgo (more from the film version of 300 than their historical counterparts), given the Akros / Sparta connection.
"You can tell how dumb someone is by how they use Mary Sue"
On pop culture, I understand that and sales, but IMO myths treated as 'fact' should not be perpetuated. I'll admit I'm more overreacting to the Atlantis thing. I disagree with your desire for an Atlantis, but the Dakra Isles do seem very interesting and worthy of a story or two of their own. I just hate the Atlantis myth.
Also, Anax and Cymede, while undoubtedly visually based on 300, also have roots in other Greek tales. Their are many king-queen duos one could make an argument for them representing.
*Shrugs* The Gods destroying a city for its hubris is a very resonant concept, seen in Greek mythology (Baucis_and_Philemon), as well as the myths and legends of many other cultures. In particular, divine destruction by flood is a common mythic theme.
Atlantis may specifically have been a literary creation of Plato to make an allegorical point about contemporary Athens, but he was drawing upon themes already present in Greek legend, and therefore I see the idea as fair game and deserving of representation in Theros. On the other hand, as I recall, the destruction of the Thran owes a lot to Edgar Cayce's version of Atlantis (speaking of nonsense being taken as truth...), so WotC may not want to trod the same thematic ground again.