Am I missing something, or is it weird that Wizards put out a card "The Eldest Reborn" for Bolas, and then in the next set story he's described as being one of, if not the, youngest elder dragons (along with Ugin)?
Nope. remember, those saga cards are supposed to be how the people of Dominaria remembered the event, not the actual truth. And since so few people remember the other Elder Dragons, but many DO remember Bolas, we can assume they thought Bolas was the eldest, since he's the only one that's still alive.
Was ever explicitly stated that Arcades Sabboth was actually one of the five Elder dragons that survived the war? I know there are statements in Bolas' bio that state Bolas was one of the five but does it ever confirm Sabbath as a survivor?
The four confirmed by having stories in the comics were Bolas, Chromium, Palladia, and Vaevictus, but I am not sure Sabboth is ever mentioned by name. The other two who may or may not be survivors of the war are:
Piru, who may have been a spawn could have become an elder much like the dragons of Takir before being killed by the Blackblade
Ugin, who may be "dead" in the sense that he is a spirit thus not a true survivor of the war.
I am sure we will get clarification soon these are just thoughts I am having.
Am I missing something, or is it weird that Wizards put out a card "The Eldest Reborn" for Bolas, and then in the next set story he's described as being one of, if not the, youngest elder dragons (along with Ugin)?
Maybe it just means that he's the oldest being still alive on Dominaria? In fact, he might be the oldest being alive in the entire multiverse.
Was ever explicitly stated that Arcades Sabboth was actually one of the five Elder dragons that survived the war? I know there are statements in Bolas' bio that state Bolas was one of the five but does it ever confirm Sabbath as a survivor?
The four confirmed by having stories in the comics were Bolas, Chromium, Palladia, and Vaevictus, but I am not sure Sabboth is ever mentioned by name. The other two who may or may not be survivors of the war are:
Piru, who may have been a spawn could have become an elder much like the dragons of Takir before being killed by the Blackblade
Ugin, who may be "dead" in the sense that he is a spirit thus not a true survivor of the war.
I am sure we will get clarification soon these are just thoughts I am having.
One of Chromium's brothers (unnamed) survived the war but was killed in a conflict between Kristina and Leshrac. Most likely was Arcades Sabboth.
Wasn't he reborn on Madara near the Talon gates? I wonder if that place will play a role for him again in the future (assuming he hopefully isn't killed by the younglings).
I suspect Bolas might even die there again, just for the poetry of it. He gets defeated and badly wounded on Ravnica, then in his final scene limps back to Dominaria and either Gideon, Ugin, or some other hero trails him there and finishes him off on the shore of Madara. He dies looking out at the Talon Gates where the great leviathan was vanquished.
Do you guys think Piru will make an appearance? He has a history with the Blackblade that has just shown up in the storyline. If he does, what colors will he be?
Do you guys think Piru will make an appearance? He has a history with the Blackblade that has just shown up in the storyline. If he does, what colors will he be?
Piru is a she. If she does make an appearance in the story, I believe it will be like Merrevia Sal, who - since she isn't on a card - didn't have mana colors (bar her scales being green).
Am I missing something, or is it weird that Wizards put out a card "The Eldest Reborn" for Bolas, and then in the next set story he's described as being one of, if not the, youngest elder dragons (along with Ugin)?
Maybe it just means that he's the oldest being still alive on Dominaria? In fact, he might be the oldest being alive in the entire multiverse.
Absolutely amazed that new Chromium references the prerevisionist Elder Dragons comic and Ham the Tickery Man. Just saying.
The new Palladia-Mors card has a mechanic that I think is supposed to represent her hibernation and awakening.
On that note, isn't she technically still in a semi-living catatonic state, similar to Ugin? If so, perhaps she could be revived in a similar manner?
Might be. If we take prerevisionist comic as canon source for the Elders, only one death is really shown - that of Chromium Rhuell, on the Null Moon summit. In the same comic, it is said that Chromium's brother was killed in a PW duel of Leshrac and Kristina. And since Nicol lives, Vaevictis is a cousin and Ugin is some 20 years away from being even a glint in the milkman's eye,it has to be Arcades, though he is never named. Another one confirmed.
Vaevictis is either killed or banished by Palladia in the same comic that new Chromium references (Elder Dragons) Palladia is agaín put to sleep.
After that, we have just Nicol Bolas's word that he is the only surviving Elder Dragon.
Question is, if Chromium was killed, who kept the sleeping spell on Palladia? Better not to overanalyze it
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Let this great clan rest in peace (2001-2011)
I really, really like Ugin after reading this story. I was worried that Ugin was some kind of petty schemer like Nicol Bolas, but he truly has the sense of perspective that I would expect of a being as old as Ugin. '
Truth be told, though, his philosophy seems GU rather than colorless.
-I don't know if I like the frame story or not. On one hand its cool seeing the transition of Khans to Dragons but I just not feeling that invest unless they set up more for further Tarkir story line. Someone mention a draft of the story with Tetsuo Umezawa being the framing in Dominaria for Bolas origin and I honesty liked that idea better.
-So we get to see Ugin and Nicol meeting the other elders. Kinda cool to see the elders pre-war. Chromium is into studying, Palladia-Mors is a hungry brute, Vaevictis and his sibling have form a gang of sorts (I wonder how he was one of the survivors of the war) and Arcades is helping humans.
-Without Ugin knowledge Nicol gave himself the name of Bolas. Bolas really showing how insecure he his about himself.
-It was humans who were the hunters. Bolas and Ugin live with Arcades learning about humans and looks like Bolas was plotting a way to get revenge on them. Cool to see the seeds of Bolas empire planning, mental magic and his way of hiding in the shadows to cover his plots.
-Ugin meets a human named Te Ju Ki (who maybe is where the Jeskai got some of their philosophy) who knows of other planes.
-With Bolas plotting, I wonder if we are going to see the elder dragon war feature Bolas vs Ugin and Arcades.
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After that, we have just Nicol Bolas's word that he is the only surviving Elder Dragon.
Honestly, after what Bolas did to Ugin, maybe he went full highlander and killed the other Elders too? I think they will go with that route
Bolas had no part in the other Elders' deaths. In Emperor's Fist he even specifies he thought of them as equals (though as this story shows that might have been a lie).
Palladia-Mors killed Vaevictis, Chromium killed Palladia-Mors, Chromium got killed by Szat and had his corpse made into a boat and Arcades died offscreen somehow.
I really, really like Ugin after reading this story. I was worried that Ugin was some kind of petty schemer like Nicol Bolas, but he truly has the sense of perspective that I would expect of a being as old as Ugin. '
Truth be told, though, his philosophy seems GU rather than colorless.
He's probably GW or GWU. It'd make sense with Bolas being UBR. Either have them share blue, or both dragons together combine for all five colors.
Remember, Ugin's colorlessness comes from his own studies and applications of magic- he transcended it, not was born with it.
Does Arcades Sabboth remind you of anyone else Ugin knows? Just hops in on a city, tells everyone "I'm in charge here", and starts making up the laws and rules in the name of order?
I really, really like Ugin after reading this story. I was worried that Ugin was some kind of petty schemer like Nicol Bolas, but he truly has the sense of perspective that I would expect of a being as old as Ugin. '
Truth be told, though, his philosophy seems GU rather than colorless.
He's probably GW or GWU. It'd make sense with Bolas being UBR. Either have them share blue, or both dragons together combine for all five colors.
Remember, Ugin's colorlessness comes from his own studies and applications of magic- he transcended it, not was born with it.
No.
Ugin does not come off as white in my mind and such would be strange considering there is already an Elder in those colours.
BlueGreen still makes the most sense.
Anyone else notice that the Atarka Twins represents 2 of the 3 Temur combinations? GreenRed and GreenBlue?
While the Temur did have RedBlue shamans and warriors I’m sure, the clan was centred on Green so I’m confident that such would be a minority.
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“The wind whispers, ‘come home,’ but I cannot.”
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It seems that we will get a story later about Tezzeret and the theft of the planar bridge... I wonder if he also has the Paradox Engine in his collection.
And for today’s story... I got a feeling that Nicol and Ugin will be the ones to start the Elder Dragon War... I really liked Ugin and Nicol sharing the name and then he adding “Bolas”... I wonder if we will see a glimpse of how Ugin met the eldrazi.
This author is pretty great. Doesn't feel forced and it's flowing well.
So it seems Ugin is more good guy-y? Not as interesting to me personally than if he was a different sort of bad guy, but I'll roll with it.
I also like the differences between all the elders so far. Makes them unique.
The first story I felt left a lot of room for Ugin and Bolas to evolve into what they are now. I thought Bolas would be made into a more relatable figure. But in this story he's pretty one-faceted and violent. Which I guess makes sense, as the other elder dragons are one-faceted in their own ways too. Still, I would like to be made to feel bad for Bolas before his fall.
It seems that we will get a story later about Tezzeret and the theft of the planar bridge... I wonder if he also has the Paradox Engine in his collection.
Didn't we get this story? He added the core to himself before he fought Liliana and then walked away when he was losing.
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Palladia-Mors killed Vaevictis, Chromium killed Palladia-Mors, Chromium got killed by Szat and had his corpse made into a boat and Arcades died offscreen somehow.
Well, Arcades dying offscreen could mean that Bolas killed him.
Palladia didn't die, she is asleep right? Again maybe Bolas put an abrupt end to her sleep.
Does Arcades Sabboth remind you of anyone else Ugin knows? Just hops in on a city, tells everyone "I'm in charge here", and starts making up the laws and rules in the name of order?
We don't know the back story of how Arcades joined the human camp, so it's too early to assume that he's like Azor. Arcades has traits of green which values life and nature.
I really, really like Ugin after reading this story. I was worried that Ugin was some kind of petty schemer like Nicol Bolas, but he truly has the sense of perspective that I would expect of a being as old as Ugin. '
Truth be told, though, his philosophy seems GU rather than colorless.
He's probably GW or GWU. It'd make sense with Bolas being UBR. Either have them share blue, or both dragons together combine for all five colors.
Remember, Ugin's colorlessness comes from his own studies and applications of magic- he transcended it, not was born with it.
No.
Ugin does not come off as white in my mind and such would be strange considering there is already an Elder in those colours.
BlueGreen still makes the most sense.
Anyone else notice that the Atarka Twins represents 2 of the 3 Temur combinations? GreenRed and GreenBlue?
While the Temur did have RedBlue shamans and warriors I’m sure, the clan was centred on Green so I’m confident that such would be a minority.
I think Ugin is probably going to be Simic or Temur. I've heard some people suggest Jeskai (probably because he has the closest ties with the actual Jeskai clan, and shares their mastery of ghostfire), but his worldview seems way too Green/Blue for him to be lacking either of those colors. Plus the Temur clan is the one that he has the second closest ties with, as evidenced by the frame story.
Selesnya and Bant don't really make sense to me either. I can get the argument for Selesnya, since that would give him the two colors that his twin didn't have, but again, I really just can't see him lacking Blue. And making his card Bant would be redundant with an Arcades Sabboth card in this set. Besides, I honestly don't see that much White in him. He seems unconcerned with society or with human concepts of order, he only cares about the natural order of the world and that's a firmly Green trait.
It seems that we will get a story later about Tezzeret and the theft of the planar bridge... I wonder if he also has the Paradox Engine in his collection.
Didn't we get this story? He added the core to himself before he fought Liliana and then walked away when he was losing.
Only the flavor text reference of Paradox Engine... I always wonder if after the confiscation he stole this artifact. One can dream haha
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Nope. remember, those saga cards are supposed to be how the people of Dominaria remembered the event, not the actual truth. And since so few people remember the other Elder Dragons, but many DO remember Bolas, we can assume they thought Bolas was the eldest, since he's the only one that's still alive.
Click the pic for more info.
Let this great clan rest in peace (2001-2011)
The four confirmed by having stories in the comics were Bolas, Chromium, Palladia, and Vaevictus, but I am not sure Sabboth is ever mentioned by name. The other two who may or may not be survivors of the war are:
Piru, who may have been a spawn could have become an elder much like the dragons of Takir before being killed by the Blackblade
Ugin, who may be "dead" in the sense that he is a spirit thus not a true survivor of the war.
I am sure we will get clarification soon these are just thoughts I am having.
Maybe it just means that he's the oldest being still alive on Dominaria? In fact, he might be the oldest being alive in the entire multiverse.
The new Palladia-Mors card has a mechanic that I think is supposed to represent her hibernation and awakening.
On that note, isn't she technically still in a semi-living catatonic state, similar to Ugin? If so, perhaps she could be revived in a similar manner?
One of Chromium's brothers (unnamed) survived the war but was killed in a conflict between Kristina and Leshrac. Most likely was Arcades Sabboth.
I suspect Bolas might even die there again, just for the poetry of it. He gets defeated and badly wounded on Ravnica, then in his final scene limps back to Dominaria and either Gideon, Ugin, or some other hero trails him there and finishes him off on the shore of Madara. He dies looking out at the Talon Gates where the great leviathan was vanquished.
Piru is a she. If she does make an appearance in the story, I believe it will be like Merrevia Sal, who - since she isn't on a card - didn't have mana colors (bar her scales being green).
Might be. If we take prerevisionist comic as canon source for the Elders, only one death is really shown - that of Chromium Rhuell, on the Null Moon summit. In the same comic, it is said that Chromium's brother was killed in a PW duel of Leshrac and Kristina. And since Nicol lives, Vaevictis is a cousin and Ugin is some 20 years away from being even a glint in the milkman's eye,it has to be Arcades, though he is never named. Another one confirmed.
Vaevictis is either killed or banished by Palladia in the same comic that new Chromium references (Elder Dragons) Palladia is agaín put to sleep.
After that, we have just Nicol Bolas's word that he is the only surviving Elder Dragon.
Question is, if Chromium was killed, who kept the sleeping spell on Palladia? Better not to overanalyze it
Let this great clan rest in peace (2001-2011)
https://magic.wizards.com/en/articles/archive/magic-story/chronicle-bolas-first-lesson-2018-06-20
We got at leas big arts of all the Elders, including the yet unrevealed Arcades Sabboth.
Let this great clan rest in peace (2001-2011)
Truth be told, though, his philosophy seems GU rather than colorless.
-So we get to see Ugin and Nicol meeting the other elders. Kinda cool to see the elders pre-war. Chromium is into studying, Palladia-Mors is a hungry brute, Vaevictis and his sibling have form a gang of sorts (I wonder how he was one of the survivors of the war) and Arcades is helping humans.
-Without Ugin knowledge Nicol gave himself the name of Bolas. Bolas really showing how insecure he his about himself.
-It was humans who were the hunters. Bolas and Ugin live with Arcades learning about humans and looks like Bolas was plotting a way to get revenge on them. Cool to see the seeds of Bolas empire planning, mental magic and his way of hiding in the shadows to cover his plots.
-Ugin meets a human named Te Ju Ki (who maybe is where the Jeskai got some of their philosophy) who knows of other planes.
-With Bolas plotting, I wonder if we are going to see the elder dragon war feature Bolas vs Ugin and Arcades.
"You can tell how dumb someone is by how they use Mary Sue"
Bolas had no part in the other Elders' deaths. In Emperor's Fist he even specifies he thought of them as equals (though as this story shows that might have been a lie).
Palladia-Mors killed Vaevictis, Chromium killed Palladia-Mors, Chromium got killed by Szat and had his corpse made into a boat and Arcades died offscreen somehow.
He's probably GW or GWU. It'd make sense with Bolas being UBR. Either have them share blue, or both dragons together combine for all five colors.
Remember, Ugin's colorlessness comes from his own studies and applications of magic- he transcended it, not was born with it.
Does Arcades Sabboth remind you of anyone else Ugin knows? Just hops in on a city, tells everyone "I'm in charge here", and starts making up the laws and rules in the name of order?
No.
Ugin does not come off as white in my mind and such would be strange considering there is already an Elder in those colours.
BlueGreen still makes the most sense.
Anyone else notice that the Atarka Twins represents 2 of the 3 Temur combinations? GreenRed and GreenBlue?
While the Temur did have RedBlue shamans and warriors I’m sure, the clan was centred on Green so I’m confident that such would be a minority.
The Vorthos community will await the consequences of the Eldrazi Titans' deaths/sealing. We will keep the watch.
“The wind whispers, ‘come home,’ but I cannot.”
— Teferi
Uhoh...
It seems that we will get a story later about Tezzeret and the theft of the planar bridge... I wonder if he also has the Paradox Engine in his collection.
And for today’s story... I got a feeling that Nicol and Ugin will be the ones to start the Elder Dragon War... I really liked Ugin and Nicol sharing the name and then he adding “Bolas”... I wonder if we will see a glimpse of how Ugin met the eldrazi.
So it seems Ugin is more good guy-y? Not as interesting to me personally than if he was a different sort of bad guy, but I'll roll with it.
I also like the differences between all the elders so far. Makes them unique.
The first story I felt left a lot of room for Ugin and Bolas to evolve into what they are now. I thought Bolas would be made into a more relatable figure. But in this story he's pretty one-faceted and violent. Which I guess makes sense, as the other elder dragons are one-faceted in their own ways too. Still, I would like to be made to feel bad for Bolas before his fall.
Didn't we get this story? He added the core to himself before he fought Liliana and then walked away when he was losing.
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Palladia is asleep, as far as we know.
Arcades was killed in duel between Kristina and Leshrac, where the latter forcibly summoned him.
Let this great clan rest in peace (2001-2011)
We don't know the back story of how Arcades joined the human camp, so it's too early to assume that he's like Azor. Arcades has traits of green which values life and nature.
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I think Ugin is probably going to be Simic or Temur. I've heard some people suggest Jeskai (probably because he has the closest ties with the actual Jeskai clan, and shares their mastery of ghostfire), but his worldview seems way too Green/Blue for him to be lacking either of those colors. Plus the Temur clan is the one that he has the second closest ties with, as evidenced by the frame story.
Selesnya and Bant don't really make sense to me either. I can get the argument for Selesnya, since that would give him the two colors that his twin didn't have, but again, I really just can't see him lacking Blue. And making his card Bant would be redundant with an Arcades Sabboth card in this set. Besides, I honestly don't see that much White in him. He seems unconcerned with society or with human concepts of order, he only cares about the natural order of the world and that's a firmly Green trait.
Only the flavor text reference of Paradox Engine... I always wonder if after the confiscation he stole this artifact. One can dream haha