Wedges, more commonly known as Abzan, Jeskai, Mardu, Sultai, and Temur. What are people's opinions on these five?
In WotC's official articles Maro explained that even though each Tarkir wedge is two allied colors plus their common foe, the primary color isn't that "foe". For example, Abzan is WG+B, its central design is in fact based on W, not B. In other words, Tarkir wedges are asymmetrical in design compare to shards, such as Bant is WUG with W as center, otherwise B would've been the central theme (even if B did play a large part in Abzan culture).
Though, base on what we see before and after Fate Reforge, I think the core identity of each clan appeared to be not one, but two colors: Abzan/Dromoka is community (WG), Jeskai/Ojutai is discipline (WU), Mardu/kolaghan is aggression/raid (BR), Sultai/Silumgar is politics and deception (BU), and Temur/Atarka is savagery (RG), with the third color as mean to support each clan: Abzan's ancestry and spiritual connection (B), Jeskai's martial arts and ghost fire (R/C), Mardu's Edicts of Ilagra (W), Sultai's recycle of resources (G), and Temur's whisperers and cunning (U).
What's intriguing about wedges is that, unlike shards where there's a clear direction (centric color), wedges can go with at least two routes. For example, Abzan being WG centric with support of ancestry and necrotic magic, flip it, and we might end up with a society where corrupted rulers (B) thrive on the complacency of the sheep (WG). Jeskai are monks who are usually disciplined and controlled who unleashed their martial might when needed, flip it, and we have a ruthless faction whose political ploys are well organized and never truly benevolent (Zedruu the Greathearted).
Mardu is a lot easier: we can go rawr rawr with Zurgo Helmsmasher's Horde (BR), flip it, and we got corrupted politician like Queen Marchesa (W). Blue dominant Temur would be like Riku of Two Reflections where intellect empowers RG, flip it, and we have Yasova Dragonclaw who controls oppositions by being physically powerful.
Sultai is tricky, I can see how BU being the dominant core, but I am uncertain what a G dominant Sultai character might look like. Thoughts?
Overall, I find wedges the most interesting "factions" of the color pie because there are multiple ways to interpret them. How do you folks feel about them?
I think saying the Core is the Allied Pair makes sense if White your main color then it makes sense Green has more impact then Black on it. If it has access to both.
I've thought a lot and had a lot of discussions about the identities of the color triads, especially the wedges. I think the three main things to consider are: 1.) what do the three colors involved all have in common, 2.) how do the three colors and/or the three color pairs that go into a wedge interact, and 3. what does it oppose about the two colors that aren't in the triad. I used this model to try and figure out what each of the color triads was fundamentally about. I'll post my ideas here, starting with my favorite wedge.
WUR is about mixing the orderliness of White with Blue's capacity for self-improvement and Red's burning desire for freedom, combining White/Blue's need for structure with the righteousness and liberation mentality of White/Red and the boundless curiosity and creativity of Blue/Red. It's about experimenting to figure out how the world works and then finding applications for that knowledge that serve the greater good. It's about laws and systems designed to maximize freedom rather than limit it. It's about succeeding in a way that leaves everyone better off, because a rising tide lifts all ships. It's about outcompeting your opponents rather than defeating them, because living well is the best revenge.
Its primary tools are versatility, cunning, and resourcefulness, because it utilizes White's tactical nature in conjunction with Blue's keen strategic outlook, along with a dash of Red's quick-thinking and charisma. It doesn't beat its enemies at their own game, it reveals that it was playing a different game the whole time. The Jeskai focus on martial arts is an example of this: Martial artists know that thinking too much during a fight will simply slow you down, but relying on their natural instincts alone will result in sub-optimal combat decisions. They resolve this paradox by training themselves to change their instincts. That way, they'll know the right move to make in the moment without having to think about it, because all the thinking has already been done in advance and ingrained into their reflexes.
Its opposed to Green/Black, which is the color pairing most associated with grittiness and cynicism and ruthless pragmatism. Green/Black sees the world in terms of survival of the fittest and views life as a zero-sum (or maybe even a negative-sum) game, whereas White/Blue/Red has a distinctly positive-sum outlook. Green/Black is concerned with the reality of the world that is, whereas White/Blue/Red loves to fantasize about the myriad possibilities that could one day be. Green/Black is concerned with mere survival and doesn't see anything beyond it, whereas White/Blue/Red is concerned with improvement and progress and making things better. The Green/Black mentality would keep everyone trapped in a neverending cycle of predation that leaves everyone worse off. White/Blue/Red will carry its adherents to the stars to colonize the countless worlds of the cosmos, while Green/Black's disciples are left behind on earth to keep fighting each other over cattle and mud huts.
The biggest flaws of White/Blue/Red are that it's highly prone to being overly idealistic, and that it fails to understand that a certain degree of pessimism can be necessary sometimes. White can be too willing to make sacrifices in the name of the greater good, Blue can be too willing to do anything in its pursuit of knowledge and scientific/technological advancement, and Red can be too driven by its passions and emotions. Together, they form a color triad that can be utterly uncompromising in pursuing its ideals no matter what the cost, and utterly unwilling to accept that sometimes the world really is zero-sum and there really isn't any good solution. A democratic nation that wages war on its undemocratic neighbors in order to 'liberate' them - even when most of the people in those countries don't want democracy, even when trying to implement democracy will only lead to civil war and political instability - is an example of one way that White/Blue/Red thinking can lead to bad outcomes.
It's the color triad of Science Heroes and Xanatos Speed Chess and the Indy Ploy. It's the color triad of action heroes who use misdirection and unexpected surprises to keep enemy combatants on their toes, and quick-witted tacticians who somehow manage to put together the pieces of a master plan without knowing what the entire plan is until it's complete. On a more ideological level, it's the color triad of liberal democracy and capitalism, or at least the idealized versions of them. Fundamentally, it's the color triad of optimism.
The quintessential White/Blue/Red hero is Indiana Jones, who's driven by both his desire for knowledge and his willingness to fight for freedom, and uses many of the tactics described above. Other examples include Iron Man, Dr. Light from Mega Man, Leonard 'Bones' McCoy from Star Trek, Princess Leia from Star Wars, Roy Mustang from Fullmetal Alchemist, and Doc Savage. A villainous example would be Big Boss from the Metal Gear series, who's willing to go to extreme lengths to create a new world order where soldiers can be free from exploitation.
When you get into multicolor, there's a lot of fragmentation. For instance, you can have black-focused Abzan, green-focused Abzan, or white-focused Abzan. You could also have "Orzhov plus green", "Selesnya/Dromoka plus black", or "Golgari plus white". (Not necessarily the guilds/broods, but the two-color combinations.) Or, hell, you could do "Orzhov plus Selesnya", "Orzhov plus Golgari", and "Golgari plus Selesnya"; that's what one major theme of RTR (and those split cards in the original Ravnica block) was, guild cooperation. You could also define it by the absence of blue and red, that is to say, someone who is stubborn and stagnant. Same thing with the other color combinations.
This gets even worse with four-color, where you have four colors, six pairs, two arcs, two wedges, and "the absence of one color".
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Card advantage is not the same thing as card draw. Something for 2B cannot be strictly worse than something for BBB or 3BB. If you're taking out Swords to Plowshares for Plummet, you're a fool. Stop doing these things!
Colour factions and characters are whatever you want them to be. For example, the two Green/White/Blue planeswalkers we have are both primarily Blue.
I would make the argument that the Elder Dragons were designed along similar "unbalanced" lines, with Palladia-Mors being explicitly Red-focused, Bolas Blue-focused and Vaevictis Black focused. Not so much Arcades and Chromium, however.
I would make the argument that the Elder Dragons were designed along similar "unbalanced" lines, with Palladia-Mors being explicitly Red-focused, Bolas Blue-focused and Vaevictis Black focused. Not so much Arcades and Chromium, however.
What two BANT walkers do we have? We have Tamiyo but she is only BANT because they needed to make her multicolor to be put in the set...probably also balances the strong ultimate I guess.
As I mentioned in my original post, I think shards have an easier time forming an identity because all three colors are close by with each other, it's like the SSW or NNE on your compass, the general direction is there and what they "lack" (color wise) is clear, unlike wedges you have three colors pointing at two major oppositions. For example, Bant being WUG, two of the colors are orderly, and while green opposes blue it isn't too far from the Azorius pair due to its share of "unity". In wedges such as Abzan, Tarkir design has WG forming the core while B provides the reverence of death and past (shared with WG), but majority of black core identity is selfish and power-at-any-cost, so black stepped back to join the cool people.
I believe once human topples draconic rule on Tarkir, they will return to three colors with the opposing color become the dominant over the paired colors. Why? Dromoka's story is the clue.
Dromoka is the "deathless" dragon, she had defied death to the point where she'd oppose death all together. Her (self-convinced) reason of attacking Abzan was because they worship the dead, but in reality the Abzan had most definitely slew a good share of Dromokan dragons using the said death magic, and managed to maintain a stalemate with the Eternal brood before Ugin went into hibernation. It's terrifying and excruciating to Dromoka who considered her brood immune to death, therefore her banning of ancestor worship.
So, if an Abzan wants to revolt against Dromoka, what power would s/he use? I'd wager it's B, same goes with Jeskai's R (Ghost fire and dragon killing skills), Mardu's W (Unity and leadership), Temur's U (whisperers and morph magic taught by Ugin), and perhaps Sultai's G (not sure about this one).
Of course, if what I theorized become true, then the society of five clans would go through upheaval as their dominant color changes, but it'd be very flavorful.
Colour factions and characters are whatever you want them to be. For example, the two Green/White/Blue planeswalkers we have are both primarily Blue.
I would make the argument that the Elder Dragons were designed along similar "unbalanced" lines, with Palladia-Mors being explicitly Red-focused, Bolas Blue-focused and Vaevictis Black focused. Not so much Arcades and Chromium, however.
Base on their effect, I think VV2's destruction+randomness is red. Bolas know magic from all five colors but his direction is black.
Of the Bant PWs, Tamiyo is without a doubt U->W->G in terms of identity, though Estrid is a balance of WUG: All three have untap, protection/totem armor, and her ultimate of self-mill and revival of enchantment is a mix of all three. If we speak about personality alone, Estrid's attitude is definitely more U because of her shifty/versatility of power.
The biggest flaws of White/Blue/Red are that it's highly prone to being overly idealistic, and that it fails to understand that a certain degree of pessimism can be necessary sometimes.
I like they way you described WUR, it's like the Airbenders from Avatar, aloof, secluded, seeking personal enlightenment/goal over other earthly bonds of BG. We see such self-satisfying direction in all Jeskai legends, even Numot (in terms of "I come and I like to burn"). You're right, due to wedges' opposing colors, it may be wise to identify their general direction by looking at what they "miss", since it's easier to define a two color pair, an approach that was also the basis of C16's design (such as Kynaios and Tiro of Meletis completely voids of selfishness of B).
WBG lacks the flickery UR personality, but they are solid, stable, down to earth, practical survival no matter which color takes the helm, always require something or someone else to work out.
WBR lacks the cultivation/innovation/scientific UG pair, because all three colors signal aggression, mobilization, for the sake of dominance, rather than settle down and think about growing. Even legends like Queen Marchesa is to control at the expense of other. There's also dedication to a cause at zealous level, something UG would attempt much more carefully (even if both ended up disastrous).
UBG lacks WR, which means the wedge does not operate wide and open, nor does it go fast and furious. Lacking R means Sultai agenda is more often than not measured without strong emotions, and lacking W means their action is less likely for common good, but not as dastardly as Grixis who misses both W and G; Sultai still appreciates the power of masses.
URG missing the one-for-all W and the all-for-one B, exercises the freedom of self-expression that survives base on one's personal strength, understanding the danger of being too selfish or being too generous. Missing WB means the wedge is very "elemental" and "wild", self-paved future, benefit self before others but benefit others when able, seen in URG legends.
I also like to think about how the shift of central color affects these combinations:
For example Temur, being my favorite wedge and the color combination I would most self-identify with, seems to me to be the color combination of basic science when centered around U. Greens appreciation for nature and environmentalist ideals combine with reds creativity and impulsiveness, giving the sometimes passive color blue a much stronger motivation to explore and try to explain and find out as much as possible about the world (incidentally this combines both "scientific" guilds of Ravnica, the Izzet and the Simic, into one). This is in stark contrast to the Temur clan, which puts more emphasis on the ferocity of nature and surviving it than studying it (though that aspect is still there somewhat). I wonder what a R-centered Temur combination might look like, I would guess that greens survival of the fittest attitude plus blues ideal of self-perfection would strengthen reds need for self-expression and search for individual freedom. Perhaps art or sport forms that put emphasis on self-expression are exemplified by such a combination.
And of course you could make a similar analysis for the other wedges and shards too.
Whenever I think about WBG with B as the center color, I imagine a partly buddhist, partly Max Weber-inspired world that's all about reincarnation and rebirth. White and black are the classic reanimator colors, and green can "regrow" all kinds of stuff (especially permanents) from the graveyard. The wedge lacks the impulsiveness and inventiveness of UR, so the world would be dominated by a very conservative society, highly clerical and with many millennia-old, magically binding traditions. Similar to Grixis, the other B-centered world, there would be almost no "new" things entering the life cycle, everything would essentially be recycled and regrown. But in contrast to Grixis, it wouldn't be a hellscape, but a world with an air of Equilor-like stagnancy, dominated by huge temples shrouded in fog andilluminated by a diffuse, soft light. Having the self-absorbed B in the center would mean that inhabitants of the world would be largely focused on self-improvement and "getting to the next higher stage" in a cycle of reincarnations. They would often act selfishly and at the expense of others, but their actions would be based on the belief that this is how it has always been, will always be and is also the best for the society as a whole (there are some survival themes here - only those who work hardest/prove to be most resilient are awarded the status of a higher life form etc).
This is one of the reasons why I don't like color combos being named after particular in-universe organizations (the other being simply the barrier of remembering what combos the names refer to -- how easy is it for a new player to remember what "Mardu" and "Jeskai" mean, especially if they didn't even start playing until after Tarkir rotated out? While much fewer people are going to be confused by just calling them WBR or WUR).
Three-color combos, even more than two-color pairs, can have a wide variety of flavor and mechanical identities. Your UBR card could come from a wide variety of places, from Admiral Beckett Brass to Mairsil, the Pretender, from Sedris, the Traitor King to Nicol Bolas. How many of these cards are "Grixis"? Only one of those four. Calling the entire color combination by one name does a disservice to the variety of the game, both mechanically and lorewise.
When you get into multicolor, there's a lot of fragmentation. For instance, you can have black-focused Abzan, green-focused Abzan, or white-focused Abzan. You could also have "Orzhov plus green", "Selesnya/Dromoka plus black", or "Golgari plus white". (Not necessarily the guilds/broods, but the two-color combinations.) Or, hell, you could do "Orzhov plus Selesnya", "Orzhov plus Golgari", and "Golgari plus Selesnya"; that's what one major theme of RTR (and those split cards in the original Ravnica block) was, guild cooperation. You could also define it by the absence of blue and red, that is to say, someone who is stubborn and stagnant. Same thing with the other color combinations.
This gets even worse with four-color, where you have four colors, six pairs, two arcs, two wedges, and "the absence of one color".
This is one of the reasons why I don't like color combos being named after particular in-universe organizations (the other being simply the barrier of remembering what combos the names refer to -- how easy is it for a new player to remember what "Mardu" and "Jeskai" mean, especially if they didn't even start playing until after Tarkir rotated out? While much fewer people are going to be confused by just calling them WBR or WUR).
Three-color combos, even more than two-color pairs, can have a wide variety of flavor and mechanical identities. Your UBR card could come from a wide variety of places, from Admiral Beckett Brass to Mairsil, the Pretender, from Sedris, the Traitor King to Nicol Bolas. How many of these cards are "Grixis"? Only one of those four. Calling the entire color combination by one name does a disservice to the variety of the game, both mechanically and lorewise.
Agreed. There's a lot of variance within each shard, and even more within each wedge. What I was going for with my analysis of WUR was more of a triangulation: What do all the different interpretations of that color triad have in common? Defining them partially by the colors they aren't helps a lot, as does looking at what all three colors have in common with each other.
For four colors, I would almost entirely define them by the color they aren't. There's no other way to create any sort of real coherent identity out of them.
I like they way you described WUR, it's like the Airbenders from Avatar, aloof, secluded, seeking personal enlightenment/goal over other earthly bonds of BG. We see such self-satisfying direction in all Jeskai legends, even Numot (in terms of "I come and I like to burn"). You're right, due to wedges' opposing colors, it may be wise to identify their general direction by looking at what they "miss", since it's easier to define a two color pair, an approach that was also the basis of C16's design (such as Kynaios and Tiro of Meletis completely voids of selfishness of B).
The Air Nomads are a great example of a WUR society, they even have some thematic and aesthetic similarities to the Jeskai clan: Both are highly disciplined monastic orders (White/Blue) with a strong focus on martial prowess (White/Red) that nonetheless emphasize individual self-improvement (Blue/Red). Both reside high in the mountains, far away from all other civilizations. Both seem heavily inspired by medieval Tibet in terms of their social structure as well as their culture, fashion, and architecture. (Although Aang himself is a rare example of a four-colored character, as both his childish-but-enlightened personality and his mastery over the four elements make him WURG.) Iron Fist and the monks of K'un Lun would be another example of WUR characters who actually match the Jeskai clan's focus on martial arts, as would the Masters from Kung Fu Panda.
Interestingly, this article makes a convincing argument that Lord Shen (the villain of Kung Fu Panda 2) would also be WUR, as he's motivated not by a desire to wield power for its own sake, but rather by a zealous perfectionism and an idealistic conviction that he's serving the greater good through his actions, along with an emotional need to prove himself and a determination to change his destiny. Like Big Boss, he exemplifies the archetype of a WUR villain: He's a fanatical idealist who insists on forcing his vision of progress and freedom upon the world, even if he has to burn down every last remnant of the old world order to do it, even if he has to drag society into the future by its heels kicking and screaming. Another example of a WUR villain in the same vein would be Emperor Dornkirk from The Vision of Escaflowne, a mystical alchemist-warlord who's determined to spread his technological advancements to the world through conquest, with the ultimate goal of elevating humans to a higher stage of existence by freeing them from the bounds of fate itself.
Here's my analysis of the Temur color triad, my second favorite of the wedges. This one is probably going to be the longest, as Green/Blue/Red is one of the hardest color combinations to pin down and describe.
URG is a synthesis of Green instinct and Red emotion with Blue curiosity, combining Red/Green's hedonism and impulsivity with Blue/Red's passion for experimentation and Blue/Green's desire to explore and understand the world. Whereas White/Blue/Red and Blue/Black/Red were both interested in running experiments and attaining knowledge for the sake of practical applications (whether for the altruistic ends of WUR or the self-aggrandizing goals of UBR), Blue/Red/Green is more about doing those things for their own sake. In its eyes, knowledge is its own reward, and what's more, the processes used to gain knowledge are themselves rewarding! It seeks out the visceral thrill that comes with exploring new places and doing new things, the sheer joy of new experiences, the serene sense of beauty that comes with observing the natural world in all its glory, the childlike sense of wonder known only to those who learn about the world by interacting with it.
Its primary tools are science, mysticism, and mindfulness. It shares Blue's reliance on logic, introspection, empiricism, and trial-and-error learning, but it also shares Red's knack for sudden and unique bursts of insight as well as Green's holistic understanding of the world. As a result, people with a Blue/Red/Green mindset tend to have a keen awareness of their surroundings and their environment. They also tend to be very reflective, displaying a deep understanding of their own innermost motivations and the effects of their actions upon the world. Blue/Red/Green also tends to be associated with meditation, symbolism, surrealism, and dreaming, all of which blur the lines between the rational/conscious and irrational/subconscious mind, between reality and illusion.
Its opposed to White/Black, which is the color pairing most associated with rules and hierarchies and political power and social status. White and Black are both fundamentally social colors: White supports hierarchical social systems directly, Black seeks to dominate others in a way that requires hierarchical social systems to exist. They both define themselves primarily through their relation to others: White defines itself through the society and institutions it belongs to, Black defines itself by how much power it has over its subordinates and how much wealth it has compared to its rivals. They're the colors most likely to be phony, whether due to White's politeness and respect for decorum, or Black's Machiavellian willingness to say whatever helps it achieve its goals. For similar reasons, they're both very concerned with how they look and how other people view them. That sort of superficial performativity clashes with the raw authenticity embodied in Blue/Red/Green. Blue/Red/Green couldn't care less about society or status. It doesn't care what other people think of it, and it doesn't feel any need to compare itself to others. It knows itself well, and it's perfectly satisfied being exactly what it is, without any regard for how it looks.
White and Black are also both utterly joyless in Blue/Red/Green's eyes. They're both very willing to put aside their immediate desires and sacrifice their own happiness and well-being - in White's case for the sake of a greater cause, in Black's case for the promise of greater satisfaction later. Blue/Red/Green isn't necessarily lazy, and it can actually be capable of working very hard when it wants to, but it saves its time and effort for the things that are actually interesting and/or important to it. While White/Black is sitting in an office doing paperwork and fretting about its rank and reputation, Blue/Red/Green will actually be out there enjoying life to the fullest.
It's the color triad of mad scientists, mystics and shamans, monks and ascetics. The Temur clan is an example of a Blue/Red/Green group that primarily emphasizes the color triad's mindfulness and connection with its environment, though the clan's whisperers also display the triad's mysticism and its use of meditation, ritual, prophecy, and visions. The color triad's mystical and surrealist sides are more clearly demonstrated by Intet, the Dreamer and Riku of Two Reflections, while the Simic/Izzet collaboration depicted in Research//Development showcases its more scientific side. The best depiction of Blue/Red/Green as simply the absence of White/Black is Animar, Soul of Elements, the purest embodiment of everything that nature is and society is not. Fundamentally, it's the color triad of enlightenment.
The quintessential Blue/Red/Green character is Victor Frankenstein, a detached yet surprisingly emotional and impulsive scientist who's utterly determined to uncover the deepest secrets of the natural world at any cost. The film version of Dr. Octopus is also Blue/Red/Green, as he's driven not by malice or by a selfish desire for power but by a burning desire to complete his experiment, even if it could potentially destroy the entire city in the process (though the original comic book version of Dr. Octopus is firmly a Blue/Black/Red megalomaniac). Professor Hojo from Final Fantasy 7 displays the same mentality taken to an even further extreme, as he's willing to do anything, up to and including destroying the world, simply to see what happens.
Hank Pym from the Ant-Man movies is more heroic example of the same archetype: a reclusive, arrogant, charismatic yet flippant scientist with poor impulse control and absolutely no concern for manners or social decorum. He's primarily driven not to save or improve the world, nor to conquer it, but merely to figure out how it works. And while his inventions are extremely powerful and versatile, there's a definite sense that he's mostly inventing crazy things for the sheer fun of it, rather than going for efficiency or practicality. Like Dr. Frankenstein, he also displays a very Green sense of balance with his insistence on not letting anyone else (even fellow heroes) get their hands on his technology. In the second movie, his main goal shifts to saving his wife, which is a very Red motivation (and adds another parallel to Dr. Frankenstein, who was sought to protect and later avenge his own fiancee).
A very different type of Blue/Red/Green character is Qui-Gon Jinn from Star Wars. While the Jedi Order is a White/Blue/Green institution, Qui-Gon is a maverick who rejects their dogmatic code of conduct, their wholesale condemnation of strong emotional attachments, and their single-minded focus on the bigger picture (White). Instead, he favors a more freeform approach that better allows him to adapt to changing circumstances in the moment (Red). While he has a very strong sense of morality, he's very flexible with his interpretation of laws and rules, bending them as he sees fit (Red). Nonetheless, he still shares the Order's commitment to peace, contemplation, and spiritual growth (Green/Blue). Kwai Chang Caine from the TV series Kung Fu is a similar example, a wandering monk who travels from place to place without any destination in mind, letting the universe take him where it may, always maintaining a sense of inner peace regardless of the circumstances.
Master Roshi from Dragonball is a lighter example of a Blue/Red/Green character, a reclusive old hermit guru who has a short temper and a strong hedonistic streak despite his mastery of the martial and spiritual arts. In a similar vein, the Ancient One from Dr. Strange is primarily Blue/Green/Red in both the comics and the movies, though s/he would likely be able to utilize all five colors of magic (and the film version explicitly uses the equivalent of both White and Black spells). Dr. Strange himself starts out as a purely Blue/Red character (much like Iron Man does), but becomes more Green as he overcomes his arrogance and accepts his new role defending the natural order of the cosmos.
One of my favorite Temur representation, Intet, the Dreamer, embeds Freudian psyche of Id, Ego, and Superego, reality is based on our inner persona, and Intet is a dragon who turns those nonexistent drives into reality. Both G and U lore-wise are good at "bringing thoughts to the surface", green in remembrance (Reclaim) while blue is inspiration (Brainstorm). U and R are the spontaneous process of how those thoughts came to mind. Yet, here is not a person, but a dragon, who's sheer strength matched GR, to actualize phantasmic ideas.
One of my favorite Temur representation, Intet, the Dreamer, embeds Freudian psyche of Id, Ego, and Superego, reality is based on our inner persona, and Intet is a dragon who turns those nonexistent drives into reality. Both G and U lore-wise are good at "bringing thoughts to the surface", green in remembrance (Reclaim) while blue is inspiration (Brainstorm). U and R are the spontaneous process of how those thoughts came to mind. Yet, here is not a person, but a dragon, who's sheer strength matched GR, to actualize phantasmic ideas.
With individual characters, things get more complicated. I actually disagree with Maro about Thanos: He's BRG in the comics, with very little G (basically he cares about the cosmic balance of life and death, Death tells him to kill half the universe because the living outnumber the dead, but he understands most of the time that killing all living things would kill Death herself because no one would die anymore, and TBH, this should be the least of her problems).
Nebula
Do keep in mind that that balance of life and death is just enough to separate him from Darkseid. (Thanos is actually based on Merton, but everyone thinks of him more as Darkseid because of the overall aesthetic and the guy who wants to kill half the universe being related to the guy who keeps talking about something called the Anti-Life Equation.) You can't see Darkseid joining the Justice League, but Thanos has been an Avenger a few times.
If you're wondering why this Thanos is red, he's literally in love with death. (Death, by the way, prefers Deadpool. But he still does her bidding. Which, honestly, makes him pathetic, IMO. She's just not that into you.)
In the movies, this talk of the balance between life and death is much more concrete, enough to consider him Abzan, TBH. He still does B things, like sacrifice his own daughter for the Soul Stone, but he does such things so we (well, half of us anyway) can inherit a future free of war, disease, and famine: The things which destroyed Titan (in the movies, not the comics). Thanos also has white's annoying "I'm not technically..." Randomly killing half the universe can't be called genocide, since no ethnic or religious group or other class of individuals is targeted. The death is painless (unless you have that sweet spot of clairvoyance where you only see your immediate future, then it's all "I don't feel so good..."), so he can't be called cruel.
Actually, now that I think about it, MCU!Thanos reminds me of Ugin and his acolytes (Sarkhan, Sorin, Azor, not really Nahiri) as well.
Private Mod Note
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Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Card advantage is not the same thing as card draw. Something for 2B cannot be strictly worse than something for BBB or 3BB. If you're taking out Swords to Plowshares for Plummet, you're a fool. Stop doing these things!
I agree with Maro that comic book Thanos would be Grixis, at least in the original Infinity Gauntlet storyline, but I agree with you that movie Thanos would be Abzan rather than Orzhov.
Both versions of Thanos will go to any lengths to acquire the power of the Infinity Gauntlet, with the ultimate goal of wiping out half of all sapient life in the universe (Black). However, comic book Thanos is motivated by his love for the abstract concept of Death (Red/Black), by an egoistic drive to become a perfect being through the acquisition of knowledge, power, and resources (Blue/Black), and by a burning desire to remake the universe so that it matches his vision of how things should be (Blue/Red). This version of Thanos also claims to be upholding some kind of vaguely-defined balance between life and death (Green), but that's a secondary or tertiary motivation for him, and it's arguably nothing more than an after-the-fact justification for his actions, so it's not enough for me to consider Green one of his dominant colors.
Movie Thanos, on the other hand, is motivated by a need to balance the ecosystem of the cosmos (Green) for the greater good of universal civilization as a whole (White). That seems like a pretty clear-cut example of Abzan to me.
I think it's more the cosmic balance. Thanos has said, in the comics, that he fears that if everyone died, death would no longer exist. (Though in some timelines, he didn't stop with half the universe either, so...) The green is tiny, and more Golgari than green per se, compared to red and black, but he's far more green than blue; in fact, I don't see anything blue about him at all.
Doctor Strange, in the movies, has a bit of black as well. In fact, the only reason I consider Thanos in the movies black at all, that he sacrifices Gamora to acquire the Soul Stone, also applies to Doctor Strange, on a much grander scale. Notice how he's willing to die or kill any of them to keep Thanos from acquiring the Time Stone? Then after he sees 1,000,605 futures, he goes through a huge battle only to basically say "Okay, Thanos, you can have the Time Stone." And then as he dies, he says "There was no other way." (Though yeah, Star-Lord is still red, with all of red's weaknesses.)
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Card advantage is not the same thing as card draw. Something for 2B cannot be strictly worse than something for BBB or 3BB. If you're taking out Swords to Plowshares for Plummet, you're a fool. Stop doing these things!
The comic book Thanos seeks to constantly improve himself, and believes he can eventually transform himself into a perfect being. He also has a vision of perfection for the entire universe, and seeks to make that vision become a reality. Those are both very Blue traits; after all, Blue is fundamentally about perfectionism and improvement through change.
I wouldn't consider the movie version of Dr. Strange to be Black at all, the only Black traits he has are those that overlap with either Blue or Red. Using people as expendable pawns in a complicated long-term plan can be Blue as well as Black, and the fact that he's using time magic to look into alternate futures and determine the best possible outcome is extremely Blue. Likewise, Strange's particular brand of reckless arrogance seems more rooted in impulsiveness and individualism (Red) as well as a justified sense of pride in his work (Blue), rather than Black egocentricity. The same applies to Tony Stark, a definitively Blue/Red character who's recklessly arrogant in a very similar way.
I agree that Star-Lord is definitely Red though. Drax would be Red too, Groot would be Green, and Rocket Raccoon would be Red/Green, or possibly Black/Red/Green due to his greed. I'm not sure what Gamora would be; she's the least impulsive and most altruistic member of the Guardians of the Galaxy, but she's also the most ruthless of them, so maybe White/Black? Nebula seems like a clear cut example of a Blue/Black character to me, right down to her appearance, skills, and power set.
Sounds about right. (Though one could see self-improvement as black. Specifically self-improvement. As in for me, not for you. Because you don't deserve that power and probably couldn't handle it. Only I do. Only I can.)
But especially with Rocket Raccoon, who...is augmented, but he absolutely hates it.
Someone really should do the MCU.
(Also, I really want to do a "Thanos Extermination Service" sketch now. "We get rid of all your pests in a snap! Scorpions, lizards, leeches, spiders won't feel so good when we're done. With no harmful chemicals because, frankly, I care about the environment. So come down to Thanos Extermination Service, where it's always half off!")
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Card advantage is not the same thing as card draw. Something for 2B cannot be strictly worse than something for BBB or 3BB. If you're taking out Swords to Plowshares for Plummet, you're a fool. Stop doing these things!
Dr. Strange feels Grixis to me. He was and has always been a brilliant but egoistic person, the only reason that he learned to control himself is that he realized there are powers beyond him. Strange is not humbled as much as he was weary. He is a practitioner of laws/mind (Magic) but use it with morality teeter tottering on a thin wire.
Really from what I remember Strange is pretty big on the proper balance being maintained. Yeah he was pretty Red when he was younger before his hands got injured but since becoming Sorcerer Supreme he seems Pretty ESPER if you ask me.
Iron Man: Originally UBR, purely UR by Iron Man 3, WUR since Civil War
Hulk: U as Bruce Banner, RG when transformed
Thor: Originally R, WR by the end of Thor
Captain America: WR
Black Widow: UB or UR?
Hawkeye: W, I guess? Maybe WG?
War Machine: WR
Falcon: WR
Quicksilver: R
Scarlet Witch: UBR
Vision: WUG
Guardians of the Galaxy
Star-Lord: BR
Rocket Raccoon: BRG (Maro says he's UBR, but I disagree... like you said, he hates the fact that he's augmented)
Groot: WG
Drax: R, maybe RG
Gamora: WB
Mantis: WRG
Other heroes
Ant-Man: R
Wasp: U
Black Panther: WG
Spider-Man: UR
Dr. Strange: URG (I still don't see any Black in him, and "protecting the natural order of the cosmos" seems more Green than White to me)
Supporting characters
Nick Fury: WU, maybe with some B
Winter Soldier: WR, WB while brainwashed
Yondu: BR
Nebula: UB
Collector: U
Hank Pym: URG
Bill Foster: U
Ghost: B (she's actually a really good example of a very sympathetic mono-Black character)
Shuri: WU
M'Baku: WRG
Valkyrie: WR
Sif and the Warriors Three: WR
Loki: UBR
Odin: WUBRG
The Ancient One: URG, with WB abilities
Mordo: WG (the comic version is a generic mono-Black dark magician, but the movie version is a totally different character)
Villains
Iron Monger: B
General Ross: WBR
Abomination: WBR as Emil Blonsky, BRG after his transformation
Crimson Dynamo: BR
Laufey: BG, maybe with some U due to his powers
Red Skull: UB
Mandarin: UB, maybe with some R due to his powers (referring to Aldrich Killian, not the decoy Mandarin)
Malekith: B
Kurse: BR
Alexander Pierce: WU
Crossbones: Originally WB, RB in Age of Ultron
Baron Von Strucker: WUB
Ronan: WB
Korath: WB
Ulysses Klaue: BR
Ultron: UBR
Yellowjacket: UB
Heinrich Zemo: BR
Ego: UBG
Vulture: UB
Tinkerer: U
Shocker I: R
Shocker II: B
Kaecilius: UB
Dormammu: C (it is an incomprehensible eldritch horror, after all)
Grandmaster: BR
Surtur: OBVIOUSLY R
Hela: B
Killmonger: WBR
W'Kabi: WBG
Ebony Maw: UB
Obsidian Kull: BR
Proxima Midnight and Corvus Glaive: B
Thanos: WBG
Organizations
SHIELD: WU with B leanings
HYDRA: WB with U leanings
AIM: UBR
Asgard: WR
Frost Giants: BG with U abilities
Dark Elves: B
Nova Corps: WU
Ravagers: BR
Kree: WB
Sovereign: WUB
Wakanda: WG
Chitauri: BG
Outriders: RG
I've thought a lot and had a lot of discussions about the identities of the color triads, especially the wedges. I think the three main things to consider are: 1.) what do the three colors involved all have in common, 2.) how do the three colors and/or the three color pairs that go into a wedge interact, and 3. what does it oppose about the two colors that aren't in the triad. I used this model to try and figure out what each of the color triads was fundamentally about. I'll post my ideas here, starting with my favorite wedge.
WUR is about mixing the orderliness of White with Blue's capacity for self-improvement and Red's burning desire for freedom, combining White/Blue's need for structure with the righteousness and liberation mentality of White/Red and the boundless curiosity and creativity of Blue/Red. It's about experimenting to figure out how the world works and then finding applications for that knowledge that serve the greater good. It's about laws and systems designed to maximize freedom rather than limit it. It's about succeeding in a way that leaves everyone better off, because a rising tide lifts all ships. It's about outcompeting your opponents rather than defeating them, because living well is the best revenge.
Its primary tools are versatility, cunning, and resourcefulness, because it utilizes White's tactical nature in conjunction with Blue's keen strategic outlook, along with a dash of Red's quick-thinking and charisma. It doesn't beat its enemies at their own game, it reveals that it was playing a different game the whole time. The Jeskai focus on martial arts is an example of this: Martial artists know that thinking too much during a fight will simply slow you down, but relying on their natural instincts alone will result in sub-optimal combat decisions. They resolve this paradox by training themselves to change their instincts. That way, they'll know the right move to make in the moment without having to think about it, because all the thinking has already been done in advance and ingrained into their reflexes.
Its opposed to Green/Black, which is the color pairing most associated with grittiness and cynicism and ruthless pragmatism. Green/Black sees the world in terms of survival of the fittest and views life as a zero-sum (or maybe even a negative-sum) game, whereas White/Blue/Red has a distinctly positive-sum outlook. Green/Black is concerned with the reality of the world that is, whereas White/Blue/Red loves to fantasize about the myriad possibilities that could one day be. Green/Black is concerned with mere survival and doesn't see anything beyond it, whereas White/Blue/Red is concerned with improvement and progress and making things better. The Green/Black mentality would keep everyone trapped in a neverending cycle of predation that leaves everyone worse off. White/Blue/Red will carry its adherents to the stars to colonize the countless worlds of the cosmos, while Green/Black's disciples are left behind on earth to keep fighting each other over cattle and mud huts.
The biggest flaws of White/Blue/Red are that it's highly prone to being overly idealistic, and that it fails to understand that a certain degree of pessimism can be necessary sometimes. White can be too willing to make sacrifices in the name of the greater good, Blue can be too willing to do anything in its pursuit of knowledge and scientific/technological advancement, and Red can be too driven by its passions and emotions. Together, they form a color triad that can be utterly uncompromising in pursuing its ideals no matter what the cost, and utterly unwilling to accept that sometimes the world really is zero-sum and there really isn't any good solution. A democratic nation that wages war on its undemocratic neighbors in order to 'liberate' them - even when most of the people in those countries don't want democracy, even when trying to implement democracy will only lead to civil war and political instability - is an example of one way that White/Blue/Red thinking can lead to bad outcomes.
It's the color triad of Science Heroes and Xanatos Speed Chess and the Indy Ploy. It's the color triad of action heroes who use misdirection and unexpected surprises to keep enemy combatants on their toes, and quick-witted tacticians who somehow manage to put together the pieces of a master plan without knowing what the entire plan is until it's complete. On a more ideological level, it's the color triad of liberal democracy and capitalism, or at least the idealized versions of them. Fundamentally, it's the color triad of optimism.
The quintessential White/Blue/Red hero is Indiana Jones, who's driven by both his desire for knowledge and his willingness to fight for freedom, and uses many of the tactics described above. Other examples include Iron Man, Dr. Light from Mega Man, Leonard 'Bones' McCoy from Star Trek, Princess Leia from Star Wars, Roy Mustang from Fullmetal Alchemist, and Doc Savage. A villainous example would be Big Boss from the Metal Gear series, who's willing to go to extreme lengths to create a new world order where soldiers can be free from exploitation.
So, most of this I would agree with, but I don't feel like Capitalism is really tied to the WUR triad in particular. Democracy I definitely see, but Capitalism feels very strongly tied to Black.
Do you think you'll do the other color triads? I really like the breakdown you did.
Yeah, I was planning to do all five, I've just been really busy with work and school and moving. I'll post one for White/Black/Red tomorrow.
And when I referred to "idealized capitalism" I was thinking more in the classical Adam Smith sense. In "The Wealth of Nations," commerce and free trade were seen as better alternatives to mercantilism and war, since they left everyone better off instead of leaving everyone worse off. Perhaps "liberalism" (in the international relations sense) would be a better term to describe it. I agree with you that modern capitalism, with its focus on competition and profit, is definitely very Black-leaning.
Yeah, I was planning to do all five, I've just been really busy with work and school and moving. I'll post one for White/Black/Red tomorrow.
And when I referred to "idealized capitalism" I was thinking more in the classical Adam Smith sense. In "The Wealth of Nations," commerce and free trade were seen as better alternatives to mercantilism and war, since they left everyone better off instead of leaving everyone worse off. Perhaps "liberalism" (in the international relations sense) would be a better term to describe it. I agree with you that modern capitalism, with its focus on competition and profit, is definitely very Black-leaning.
It's fine, I get what you're driving at. As someone with... very little Black though it was rather odd to see my color identity have an association with a term that I tend to associate with Black pretty strongly.
And awesome, I'm looking forward to them, they're lovely. I love seeing how others view the color pie.
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In WotC's official articles Maro explained that even though each Tarkir wedge is two allied colors plus their common foe, the primary color isn't that "foe". For example, Abzan is WG+B, its central design is in fact based on W, not B. In other words, Tarkir wedges are asymmetrical in design compare to shards, such as Bant is WUG with W as center, otherwise B would've been the central theme (even if B did play a large part in Abzan culture).
Though, base on what we see before and after Fate Reforge, I think the core identity of each clan appeared to be not one, but two colors: Abzan/Dromoka is community (WG), Jeskai/Ojutai is discipline (WU), Mardu/kolaghan is aggression/raid (BR), Sultai/Silumgar is politics and deception (BU), and Temur/Atarka is savagery (RG), with the third color as mean to support each clan: Abzan's ancestry and spiritual connection (B), Jeskai's martial arts and ghost fire (R/C), Mardu's Edicts of Ilagra (W), Sultai's recycle of resources (G), and Temur's whisperers and cunning (U).
What's intriguing about wedges is that, unlike shards where there's a clear direction (centric color), wedges can go with at least two routes. For example, Abzan being WG centric with support of ancestry and necrotic magic, flip it, and we might end up with a society where corrupted rulers (B) thrive on the complacency of the sheep (WG). Jeskai are monks who are usually disciplined and controlled who unleashed their martial might when needed, flip it, and we have a ruthless faction whose political ploys are well organized and never truly benevolent (Zedruu the Greathearted).
Mardu is a lot easier: we can go rawr rawr with Zurgo Helmsmasher's Horde (BR), flip it, and we got corrupted politician like Queen Marchesa (W). Blue dominant Temur would be like Riku of Two Reflections where intellect empowers RG, flip it, and we have Yasova Dragonclaw who controls oppositions by being physically powerful.
Sultai is tricky, I can see how BU being the dominant core, but I am uncertain what a G dominant Sultai character might look like. Thoughts?
Overall, I find wedges the most interesting "factions" of the color pie because there are multiple ways to interpret them. How do you folks feel about them?
Shu Yun, the Silent Tempest WUR Voltron Control
Temmet, Vizier of Naktamun WU Unblockable Mirror Trickery
Ra's al Ghul (Sidar Kondo) and Face-Down Ninjas
Brudiclad, Token Engineer
Vaevictis (VV2) the Dire Lantern
Rona, Disciple of Gix
Tiana the Auror
Hallar
Ulrich the Politician
Zur the Rebel
Scorpion, Locust, Scarab, Egyptian Gods
O-Kagachi, Mathas, Mairsil
"Non-Tribal" Tribal Generals, Eggs
WUR is about mixing the orderliness of White with Blue's capacity for self-improvement and Red's burning desire for freedom, combining White/Blue's need for structure with the righteousness and liberation mentality of White/Red and the boundless curiosity and creativity of Blue/Red. It's about experimenting to figure out how the world works and then finding applications for that knowledge that serve the greater good. It's about laws and systems designed to maximize freedom rather than limit it. It's about succeeding in a way that leaves everyone better off, because a rising tide lifts all ships. It's about outcompeting your opponents rather than defeating them, because living well is the best revenge.
Its primary tools are versatility, cunning, and resourcefulness, because it utilizes White's tactical nature in conjunction with Blue's keen strategic outlook, along with a dash of Red's quick-thinking and charisma. It doesn't beat its enemies at their own game, it reveals that it was playing a different game the whole time. The Jeskai focus on martial arts is an example of this: Martial artists know that thinking too much during a fight will simply slow you down, but relying on their natural instincts alone will result in sub-optimal combat decisions. They resolve this paradox by training themselves to change their instincts. That way, they'll know the right move to make in the moment without having to think about it, because all the thinking has already been done in advance and ingrained into their reflexes.
Its opposed to Green/Black, which is the color pairing most associated with grittiness and cynicism and ruthless pragmatism. Green/Black sees the world in terms of survival of the fittest and views life as a zero-sum (or maybe even a negative-sum) game, whereas White/Blue/Red has a distinctly positive-sum outlook. Green/Black is concerned with the reality of the world that is, whereas White/Blue/Red loves to fantasize about the myriad possibilities that could one day be. Green/Black is concerned with mere survival and doesn't see anything beyond it, whereas White/Blue/Red is concerned with improvement and progress and making things better. The Green/Black mentality would keep everyone trapped in a neverending cycle of predation that leaves everyone worse off. White/Blue/Red will carry its adherents to the stars to colonize the countless worlds of the cosmos, while Green/Black's disciples are left behind on earth to keep fighting each other over cattle and mud huts.
The biggest flaws of White/Blue/Red are that it's highly prone to being overly idealistic, and that it fails to understand that a certain degree of pessimism can be necessary sometimes. White can be too willing to make sacrifices in the name of the greater good, Blue can be too willing to do anything in its pursuit of knowledge and scientific/technological advancement, and Red can be too driven by its passions and emotions. Together, they form a color triad that can be utterly uncompromising in pursuing its ideals no matter what the cost, and utterly unwilling to accept that sometimes the world really is zero-sum and there really isn't any good solution. A democratic nation that wages war on its undemocratic neighbors in order to 'liberate' them - even when most of the people in those countries don't want democracy, even when trying to implement democracy will only lead to civil war and political instability - is an example of one way that White/Blue/Red thinking can lead to bad outcomes.
It's the color triad of Science Heroes and Xanatos Speed Chess and the Indy Ploy. It's the color triad of action heroes who use misdirection and unexpected surprises to keep enemy combatants on their toes, and quick-witted tacticians who somehow manage to put together the pieces of a master plan without knowing what the entire plan is until it's complete. On a more ideological level, it's the color triad of liberal democracy and capitalism, or at least the idealized versions of them. Fundamentally, it's the color triad of optimism.
The quintessential White/Blue/Red hero is Indiana Jones, who's driven by both his desire for knowledge and his willingness to fight for freedom, and uses many of the tactics described above. Other examples include Iron Man, Dr. Light from Mega Man, Leonard 'Bones' McCoy from Star Trek, Princess Leia from Star Wars, Roy Mustang from Fullmetal Alchemist, and Doc Savage. A villainous example would be Big Boss from the Metal Gear series, who's willing to go to extreme lengths to create a new world order where soldiers can be free from exploitation.
This gets even worse with four-color, where you have four colors, six pairs, two arcs, two wedges, and "the absence of one color".
On phasing:
I would make the argument that the Elder Dragons were designed along similar "unbalanced" lines, with Palladia-Mors being explicitly Red-focused, Bolas Blue-focused and Vaevictis Black focused. Not so much Arcades and Chromium, however.
I believe once human topples draconic rule on Tarkir, they will return to three colors with the opposing color become the dominant over the paired colors. Why? Dromoka's story is the clue.
Dromoka is the "deathless" dragon, she had defied death to the point where she'd oppose death all together. Her (self-convinced) reason of attacking Abzan was because they worship the dead, but in reality the Abzan had most definitely slew a good share of Dromokan dragons using the said death magic, and managed to maintain a stalemate with the Eternal brood before Ugin went into hibernation. It's terrifying and excruciating to Dromoka who considered her brood immune to death, therefore her banning of ancestor worship.
So, if an Abzan wants to revolt against Dromoka, what power would s/he use? I'd wager it's B, same goes with Jeskai's R (Ghost fire and dragon killing skills), Mardu's W (Unity and leadership), Temur's U (whisperers and morph magic taught by Ugin), and perhaps Sultai's G (not sure about this one).
Of course, if what I theorized become true, then the society of five clans would go through upheaval as their dominant color changes, but it'd be very flavorful.
Base on their effect, I think VV2's destruction+randomness is red. Bolas know magic from all five colors but his direction is black.
Of the Bant PWs, Tamiyo is without a doubt U->W->G in terms of identity, though Estrid is a balance of WUG: All three have untap, protection/totem armor, and her ultimate of self-mill and revival of enchantment is a mix of all three. If we speak about personality alone, Estrid's attitude is definitely more U because of her shifty/versatility of power.
I like they way you described WUR, it's like the Airbenders from Avatar, aloof, secluded, seeking personal enlightenment/goal over other earthly bonds of BG. We see such self-satisfying direction in all Jeskai legends, even Numot (in terms of "I come and I like to burn"). You're right, due to wedges' opposing colors, it may be wise to identify their general direction by looking at what they "miss", since it's easier to define a two color pair, an approach that was also the basis of C16's design (such as Kynaios and Tiro of Meletis completely voids of selfishness of B).
WBG lacks the flickery UR personality, but they are solid, stable, down to earth, practical survival no matter which color takes the helm, always require something or someone else to work out.
WBR lacks the cultivation/innovation/scientific UG pair, because all three colors signal aggression, mobilization, for the sake of dominance, rather than settle down and think about growing. Even legends like Queen Marchesa is to control at the expense of other. There's also dedication to a cause at zealous level, something UG would attempt much more carefully (even if both ended up disastrous).
UBG lacks WR, which means the wedge does not operate wide and open, nor does it go fast and furious. Lacking R means Sultai agenda is more often than not measured without strong emotions, and lacking W means their action is less likely for common good, but not as dastardly as Grixis who misses both W and G; Sultai still appreciates the power of masses.
URG missing the one-for-all W and the all-for-one B, exercises the freedom of self-expression that survives base on one's personal strength, understanding the danger of being too selfish or being too generous. Missing WB means the wedge is very "elemental" and "wild", self-paved future, benefit self before others but benefit others when able, seen in URG legends.
Shu Yun, the Silent Tempest WUR Voltron Control
Temmet, Vizier of Naktamun WU Unblockable Mirror Trickery
Ra's al Ghul (Sidar Kondo) and Face-Down Ninjas
Brudiclad, Token Engineer
Vaevictis (VV2) the Dire Lantern
Rona, Disciple of Gix
Tiana the Auror
Hallar
Ulrich the Politician
Zur the Rebel
Scorpion, Locust, Scarab, Egyptian Gods
O-Kagachi, Mathas, Mairsil
"Non-Tribal" Tribal Generals, Eggs
For example Temur, being my favorite wedge and the color combination I would most self-identify with, seems to me to be the color combination of basic science when centered around U. Greens appreciation for nature and environmentalist ideals combine with reds creativity and impulsiveness, giving the sometimes passive color blue a much stronger motivation to explore and try to explain and find out as much as possible about the world (incidentally this combines both "scientific" guilds of Ravnica, the Izzet and the Simic, into one). This is in stark contrast to the Temur clan, which puts more emphasis on the ferocity of nature and surviving it than studying it (though that aspect is still there somewhat). I wonder what a R-centered Temur combination might look like, I would guess that greens survival of the fittest attitude plus blues ideal of self-perfection would strengthen reds need for self-expression and search for individual freedom. Perhaps art or sport forms that put emphasis on self-expression are exemplified by such a combination.
And of course you could make a similar analysis for the other wedges and shards too.
Three-color combos, even more than two-color pairs, can have a wide variety of flavor and mechanical identities. Your UBR card could come from a wide variety of places, from Admiral Beckett Brass to Mairsil, the Pretender, from Sedris, the Traitor King to Nicol Bolas. How many of these cards are "Grixis"? Only one of those four. Calling the entire color combination by one name does a disservice to the variety of the game, both mechanically and lorewise.
Agreed. There's a lot of variance within each shard, and even more within each wedge. What I was going for with my analysis of WUR was more of a triangulation: What do all the different interpretations of that color triad have in common? Defining them partially by the colors they aren't helps a lot, as does looking at what all three colors have in common with each other.
For four colors, I would almost entirely define them by the color they aren't. There's no other way to create any sort of real coherent identity out of them.
The Air Nomads are a great example of a WUR society, they even have some thematic and aesthetic similarities to the Jeskai clan: Both are highly disciplined monastic orders (White/Blue) with a strong focus on martial prowess (White/Red) that nonetheless emphasize individual self-improvement (Blue/Red). Both reside high in the mountains, far away from all other civilizations. Both seem heavily inspired by medieval Tibet in terms of their social structure as well as their culture, fashion, and architecture. (Although Aang himself is a rare example of a four-colored character, as both his childish-but-enlightened personality and his mastery over the four elements make him WURG.) Iron Fist and the monks of K'un Lun would be another example of WUR characters who actually match the Jeskai clan's focus on martial arts, as would the Masters from Kung Fu Panda.
Interestingly, this article makes a convincing argument that Lord Shen (the villain of Kung Fu Panda 2) would also be WUR, as he's motivated not by a desire to wield power for its own sake, but rather by a zealous perfectionism and an idealistic conviction that he's serving the greater good through his actions, along with an emotional need to prove himself and a determination to change his destiny. Like Big Boss, he exemplifies the archetype of a WUR villain: He's a fanatical idealist who insists on forcing his vision of progress and freedom upon the world, even if he has to burn down every last remnant of the old world order to do it, even if he has to drag society into the future by its heels kicking and screaming. Another example of a WUR villain in the same vein would be Emperor Dornkirk from The Vision of Escaflowne, a mystical alchemist-warlord who's determined to spread his technological advancements to the world through conquest, with the ultimate goal of elevating humans to a higher stage of existence by freeing them from the bounds of fate itself.
URG is a synthesis of Green instinct and Red emotion with Blue curiosity, combining Red/Green's hedonism and impulsivity with Blue/Red's passion for experimentation and Blue/Green's desire to explore and understand the world. Whereas White/Blue/Red and Blue/Black/Red were both interested in running experiments and attaining knowledge for the sake of practical applications (whether for the altruistic ends of WUR or the self-aggrandizing goals of UBR), Blue/Red/Green is more about doing those things for their own sake. In its eyes, knowledge is its own reward, and what's more, the processes used to gain knowledge are themselves rewarding! It seeks out the visceral thrill that comes with exploring new places and doing new things, the sheer joy of new experiences, the serene sense of beauty that comes with observing the natural world in all its glory, the childlike sense of wonder known only to those who learn about the world by interacting with it.
Its primary tools are science, mysticism, and mindfulness. It shares Blue's reliance on logic, introspection, empiricism, and trial-and-error learning, but it also shares Red's knack for sudden and unique bursts of insight as well as Green's holistic understanding of the world. As a result, people with a Blue/Red/Green mindset tend to have a keen awareness of their surroundings and their environment. They also tend to be very reflective, displaying a deep understanding of their own innermost motivations and the effects of their actions upon the world. Blue/Red/Green also tends to be associated with meditation, symbolism, surrealism, and dreaming, all of which blur the lines between the rational/conscious and irrational/subconscious mind, between reality and illusion.
Its opposed to White/Black, which is the color pairing most associated with rules and hierarchies and political power and social status. White and Black are both fundamentally social colors: White supports hierarchical social systems directly, Black seeks to dominate others in a way that requires hierarchical social systems to exist. They both define themselves primarily through their relation to others: White defines itself through the society and institutions it belongs to, Black defines itself by how much power it has over its subordinates and how much wealth it has compared to its rivals. They're the colors most likely to be phony, whether due to White's politeness and respect for decorum, or Black's Machiavellian willingness to say whatever helps it achieve its goals. For similar reasons, they're both very concerned with how they look and how other people view them. That sort of superficial performativity clashes with the raw authenticity embodied in Blue/Red/Green. Blue/Red/Green couldn't care less about society or status. It doesn't care what other people think of it, and it doesn't feel any need to compare itself to others. It knows itself well, and it's perfectly satisfied being exactly what it is, without any regard for how it looks.
White and Black are also both utterly joyless in Blue/Red/Green's eyes. They're both very willing to put aside their immediate desires and sacrifice their own happiness and well-being - in White's case for the sake of a greater cause, in Black's case for the promise of greater satisfaction later. Blue/Red/Green isn't necessarily lazy, and it can actually be capable of working very hard when it wants to, but it saves its time and effort for the things that are actually interesting and/or important to it. While White/Black is sitting in an office doing paperwork and fretting about its rank and reputation, Blue/Red/Green will actually be out there enjoying life to the fullest.
It's the color triad of mad scientists, mystics and shamans, monks and ascetics. The Temur clan is an example of a Blue/Red/Green group that primarily emphasizes the color triad's mindfulness and connection with its environment, though the clan's whisperers also display the triad's mysticism and its use of meditation, ritual, prophecy, and visions. The color triad's mystical and surrealist sides are more clearly demonstrated by Intet, the Dreamer and Riku of Two Reflections, while the Simic/Izzet collaboration depicted in Research//Development showcases its more scientific side. The best depiction of Blue/Red/Green as simply the absence of White/Black is Animar, Soul of Elements, the purest embodiment of everything that nature is and society is not. Fundamentally, it's the color triad of enlightenment.
The quintessential Blue/Red/Green character is Victor Frankenstein, a detached yet surprisingly emotional and impulsive scientist who's utterly determined to uncover the deepest secrets of the natural world at any cost. The film version of Dr. Octopus is also Blue/Red/Green, as he's driven not by malice or by a selfish desire for power but by a burning desire to complete his experiment, even if it could potentially destroy the entire city in the process (though the original comic book version of Dr. Octopus is firmly a Blue/Black/Red megalomaniac). Professor Hojo from Final Fantasy 7 displays the same mentality taken to an even further extreme, as he's willing to do anything, up to and including destroying the world, simply to see what happens.
Hank Pym from the Ant-Man movies is more heroic example of the same archetype: a reclusive, arrogant, charismatic yet flippant scientist with poor impulse control and absolutely no concern for manners or social decorum. He's primarily driven not to save or improve the world, nor to conquer it, but merely to figure out how it works. And while his inventions are extremely powerful and versatile, there's a definite sense that he's mostly inventing crazy things for the sheer fun of it, rather than going for efficiency or practicality. Like Dr. Frankenstein, he also displays a very Green sense of balance with his insistence on not letting anyone else (even fellow heroes) get their hands on his technology. In the second movie, his main goal shifts to saving his wife, which is a very Red motivation (and adds another parallel to Dr. Frankenstein, who was sought to protect and later avenge his own fiancee).
A very different type of Blue/Red/Green character is Qui-Gon Jinn from Star Wars. While the Jedi Order is a White/Blue/Green institution, Qui-Gon is a maverick who rejects their dogmatic code of conduct, their wholesale condemnation of strong emotional attachments, and their single-minded focus on the bigger picture (White). Instead, he favors a more freeform approach that better allows him to adapt to changing circumstances in the moment (Red). While he has a very strong sense of morality, he's very flexible with his interpretation of laws and rules, bending them as he sees fit (Red). Nonetheless, he still shares the Order's commitment to peace, contemplation, and spiritual growth (Green/Blue). Kwai Chang Caine from the TV series Kung Fu is a similar example, a wandering monk who travels from place to place without any destination in mind, letting the universe take him where it may, always maintaining a sense of inner peace regardless of the circumstances.
Master Roshi from Dragonball is a lighter example of a Blue/Red/Green character, a reclusive old hermit guru who has a short temper and a strong hedonistic streak despite his mastery of the martial and spiritual arts. In a similar vein, the Ancient One from Dr. Strange is primarily Blue/Green/Red in both the comics and the movies, though s/he would likely be able to utilize all five colors of magic (and the film version explicitly uses the equivalent of both White and Black spells). Dr. Strange himself starts out as a purely Blue/Red character (much like Iron Man does), but becomes more Green as he overcomes his arrogance and accepts his new role defending the natural order of the cosmos.
Shu Yun, the Silent Tempest WUR Voltron Control
Temmet, Vizier of Naktamun WU Unblockable Mirror Trickery
Ra's al Ghul (Sidar Kondo) and Face-Down Ninjas
Brudiclad, Token Engineer
Vaevictis (VV2) the Dire Lantern
Rona, Disciple of Gix
Tiana the Auror
Hallar
Ulrich the Politician
Zur the Rebel
Scorpion, Locust, Scarab, Egyptian Gods
O-Kagachi, Mathas, Mairsil
"Non-Tribal" Tribal Generals, Eggs
With individual characters, things get more complicated. I actually disagree with Maro about Thanos: He's BRG in the comics, with very little G (basically he cares about the cosmic balance of life and death, Death tells him to kill half the universe because the living outnumber the dead, but he understands most of the time that killing all living things would kill Death herself because no one would die anymore, and TBH, this should be the least of her problems).
Do keep in mind that that balance of life and death is just enough to separate him from Darkseid. (Thanos is actually based on Merton, but everyone thinks of him more as Darkseid because of the overall aesthetic and the guy who wants to kill half the universe being related to the guy who keeps talking about something called the Anti-Life Equation.) You can't see Darkseid joining the Justice League, but Thanos has been an Avenger a few times.
If you're wondering why this Thanos is red, he's literally in love with death. (Death, by the way, prefers Deadpool. But he still does her bidding. Which, honestly, makes him pathetic, IMO. She's just not that into you.)
In the movies, this talk of the balance between life and death is much more concrete, enough to consider him Abzan, TBH. He still does B things, like sacrifice his own daughter for the Soul Stone, but he does such things so we (well, half of us anyway) can inherit a future free of war, disease, and famine: The things which destroyed Titan (in the movies, not the comics). Thanos also has white's annoying "I'm not technically..." Randomly killing half the universe can't be called genocide, since no ethnic or religious group or other class of individuals is targeted. The death is painless (unless you have that sweet spot of clairvoyance where you only see your immediate future, then it's all "I don't feel so good..."), so he can't be called cruel.
Actually, now that I think about it, MCU!Thanos reminds me of Ugin and his acolytes (Sarkhan, Sorin, Azor, not really Nahiri) as well.
On phasing:
Both versions of Thanos will go to any lengths to acquire the power of the Infinity Gauntlet, with the ultimate goal of wiping out half of all sapient life in the universe (Black). However, comic book Thanos is motivated by his love for the abstract concept of Death (Red/Black), by an egoistic drive to become a perfect being through the acquisition of knowledge, power, and resources (Blue/Black), and by a burning desire to remake the universe so that it matches his vision of how things should be (Blue/Red). This version of Thanos also claims to be upholding some kind of vaguely-defined balance between life and death (Green), but that's a secondary or tertiary motivation for him, and it's arguably nothing more than an after-the-fact justification for his actions, so it's not enough for me to consider Green one of his dominant colors.
Movie Thanos, on the other hand, is motivated by a need to balance the ecosystem of the cosmos (Green) for the greater good of universal civilization as a whole (White). That seems like a pretty clear-cut example of Abzan to me.
Doctor Strange, in the movies, has a bit of black as well. In fact, the only reason I consider Thanos in the movies black at all, that he sacrifices Gamora to acquire the Soul Stone, also applies to Doctor Strange, on a much grander scale. Notice how he's willing to die or kill any of them to keep Thanos from acquiring the Time Stone? Then after he sees 1,000,605 futures, he goes through a huge battle only to basically say "Okay, Thanos, you can have the Time Stone." And then as he dies, he says "There was no other way." (Though yeah, Star-Lord is still red, with all of red's weaknesses.)
On phasing:
I wouldn't consider the movie version of Dr. Strange to be Black at all, the only Black traits he has are those that overlap with either Blue or Red. Using people as expendable pawns in a complicated long-term plan can be Blue as well as Black, and the fact that he's using time magic to look into alternate futures and determine the best possible outcome is extremely Blue. Likewise, Strange's particular brand of reckless arrogance seems more rooted in impulsiveness and individualism (Red) as well as a justified sense of pride in his work (Blue), rather than Black egocentricity. The same applies to Tony Stark, a definitively Blue/Red character who's recklessly arrogant in a very similar way.
I agree that Star-Lord is definitely Red though. Drax would be Red too, Groot would be Green, and Rocket Raccoon would be Red/Green, or possibly Black/Red/Green due to his greed. I'm not sure what Gamora would be; she's the least impulsive and most altruistic member of the Guardians of the Galaxy, but she's also the most ruthless of them, so maybe White/Black? Nebula seems like a clear cut example of a Blue/Black character to me, right down to her appearance, skills, and power set.
But especially with Rocket Raccoon, who...is augmented, but he absolutely hates it.
Someone really should do the MCU.
(Also, I really want to do a "Thanos Extermination Service" sketch now. "We get rid of all your pests in a snap! Scorpions, lizards, leeches, spiders won't feel so good when we're done. With no harmful chemicals because, frankly, I care about the environment. So come down to Thanos Extermination Service, where it's always half off!")
On phasing:
Shu Yun, the Silent Tempest WUR Voltron Control
Temmet, Vizier of Naktamun WU Unblockable Mirror Trickery
Ra's al Ghul (Sidar Kondo) and Face-Down Ninjas
Brudiclad, Token Engineer
Vaevictis (VV2) the Dire Lantern
Rona, Disciple of Gix
Tiana the Auror
Hallar
Ulrich the Politician
Zur the Rebel
Scorpion, Locust, Scarab, Egyptian Gods
O-Kagachi, Mathas, Mairsil
"Non-Tribal" Tribal Generals, Eggs
Well, since you asked!
The Avengers
Guardians of the Galaxy
Other heroes
Supporting characters
Villains
Organizations
SHIELD: WU with B leanings
HYDRA: WB with U leanings
AIM: UBR
Asgard: WR
Frost Giants: BG with U abilities
Dark Elves: B
Nova Corps: WU
Ravagers: BR
Kree: WB
Sovereign: WUB
Wakanda: WG
Chitauri: BG
Outriders: RG
Anyone I'm missing?
So, most of this I would agree with, but I don't feel like Capitalism is really tied to the WUR triad in particular. Democracy I definitely see, but Capitalism feels very strongly tied to Black.
Do you think you'll do the other color triads? I really like the breakdown you did.
And when I referred to "idealized capitalism" I was thinking more in the classical Adam Smith sense. In "The Wealth of Nations," commerce and free trade were seen as better alternatives to mercantilism and war, since they left everyone better off instead of leaving everyone worse off. Perhaps "liberalism" (in the international relations sense) would be a better term to describe it. I agree with you that modern capitalism, with its focus on competition and profit, is definitely very Black-leaning.
It's fine, I get what you're driving at. As someone with... very little Black though it was rather odd to see my color identity have an association with a term that I tend to associate with Black pretty strongly.
And awesome, I'm looking forward to them, they're lovely. I love seeing how others view the color pie.