“There are no weak Jews. I am descended from those who wrestle angels and kill giants. We were chosen by God. You were chosen by a pathetic little man who can't seem to grow a full mustache"
"You can tell how dumb someone is by how they use Mary Sue"
According to Maro, Humans and possibly Human tribal will have some import in/on Ikoria. This new information brings to mind a fact that we already knew, that despite Ikoria's design being mostly bottom-up, some of the set's design will be top-down. I predict, as many already have, that the human-centric elements of Ikoria will represent human civilizations responding to Kaiju monstrosities in a vein, not unlike that of Innistrad; working together to use magic, systems and technology to protect themselves. These elements would fit top-down tropes related to Kaiju movies and related fiction.
Normally I'm not a big fan of artefacts but I strangely found myself actually enjoying the look of the mechs in Kaledesh. I think it would be appropriate and fine were they to appear in Ikoria so long as the flavour and the art strongly convey that these are artifacts powered by magic and possibly powering magic in return.
Of the commander decks that I could see being more human-centric, I could see Ruthless Regiment, Arcane Maelstrom, or Timeless wisdom being somewhat human-tribal.
Ruthless Regiment could be so because it represents Human militia and armies that use centralized social systems to protect the state and society. RWB or UBW
Arcane Maelstrom might not be human-centric, but I could see it being Wizard-tribal; representing Humanity's mastery over magic in order to defend themselves. URW I cannot think of another three-colour combo that would better fit this.
Timeless Wisdom could also be human- or spell-centric if it's UW but if it's GUR as many suspect I could see this not being very human-related at all.
In the meantime, if anyone familiar with both and the source material has any ideas of what tropes, narratives and monsters we could expect, I'd greatly appreciate hearing it!
-There be monsters. There are five main types and they can mix and match.
-It seems humans are the only intelligent beings, no elves or goblins. Might be wrong but as I write this, this what it seems to be.
-Human kinda just have to deal with monsters. they defend the best in sanctuary cities they can but there is always a bigger beast to crush walls or break through magical wards.
-Some humans can bond with monsters. It can be on sight or over time getting to know each other. Our new walker Lukka is one of these or becomes one by the end of the story.
-Five major regions called triomes, one for each color or wedge combo it seems.
-Narset hinted being her or have been here.
-Savai is WRB, the main monsters are cats and the apex monster is Snapdax who takes trophy from human hunts and said to have to force humans into building Drannith.
-Drannith is the biggest city and claims to have surivied any attacks on it.
-Drannith was built when humans where nearly killed off.
-Ketria is URG, main monsters are elementals and the apex monster is Illuna who seems to change the stories about them.
-Crystals mutate monster but seem to have no effect on humans. They flare and glow when near monsters so humans use them for defense.
-Indatha seems to be BWG, its monsters are nightmares and the apex monster is Nethroi a necromantic cat nightmare.
-There is a hot balloon city called Skysail.
-Raugrin is RWU, main monster is dinosaurs and Vadrok is the apex monster who said to burned a city and all memories of it, into ash.
-Lavabrink is a city built under a volcanic shelf and uses this to fend off monsters.
-Zagoth is GUB with the main monsters being beasts and the apex beast Brokkos thought to be the eldest of monsters.
-Some humans chose to be monster hunters and tend to not have a good relationship with the cities.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
“There are no weak Jews. I am descended from those who wrestle angels and kill giants. We were chosen by God. You were chosen by a pathetic little man who can't seem to grow a full mustache"
"You can tell how dumb someone is by how they use Mary Sue"
I too caught the Narset hint. We know she's been there at the very least and may show up.
Just reading the PW guide and I'm already annoyed by Vivien. Like, does she even eat meat and use animal byproducts? The most obvious reason for monster hunting in my opinion would be for food, animal byproducts and domestication and none of these seem unwarrented in a world where human survival is so grossly threatened. I originally like Vivien when we first saw her blurb but after reading stories associated with the planeswalker, I'm starting to think I'm ot as G as I once thought. I think I might even get the Human-tribal edh deck. I'm a huge human tribal fan and was previously in the midst of building a Samut-led deck with that theme.
Other Planeswalkers I could imagine being featured on Ikoria if Narset isn't carded is Huatli (Dinosaurs)and of course Kiora.
I like Luca from what info we have on him. His source of conflict is relatable, he cares about humans and monsters, hell his story even has a romantic subplot.
I love how this is Tarkir done right. Proper color trios, overlords being monsters as opposed to fascism portrayed as good.
When have they said the dragons lords are good?
However, Vivien better be the villain. She's so annoying and stupid.
Honesty this why I don't really take a lot of y'all criticism as serious. "I don't like her she should be a villain" is weak.
EDIT: not counting you AbzanPlaneswalker, thats a fair point there might be hunters for food and survival, though hunting monsters seems more for sport since there would be better prey.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
“There are no weak Jews. I am descended from those who wrestle angels and kill giants. We were chosen by God. You were chosen by a pathetic little man who can't seem to grow a full mustache"
"You can tell how dumb someone is by how they use Mary Sue"
Its clear from a narrative standpoint that Tarkir was fixed. Sarkhan's biased POV aside, the lands are more vibrant and creative comments imply that everything is better.
Honesty this why I don't really take a lot of y'all criticism as serious. "I don't like her she should be a villain" is weak.
Do inform me how an eco-terrorist unironically calling people trying to defend themselves "vile" is a good character as a sympathetic protagonist.
Its clear from a narrative standpoint that Tarkir was fixed. Sarkhan's biased POV aside, the lands are more vibrant and creative comments imply that everything is better.
And yet Maro has said the Tarkir story is the typical time travel story where the changes makes everything worst with the twist being Sarkhan liking it while everyone else hates it.
Honesty this why I don't really take a lot of y'all criticism as serious. "I don't like her she should be a villain" is weak.
Do inform me how an eco-terrorist unironically calling people trying to defend themselves "vile" is a good character as a sympathetic protagonist.[/quote]
Did you read it?
Some hunt for the thrill and sport of it; some nurse personal vendettas against certain monsters; others sell monster parts to interested parties. In my eyes, all are equally vile.
nothing about defending themselves...oh wait
A soldier who fights to protect their home is understandable, but I cannot abide the callous destruction of life for profit or sport.
And personally I think (for fiction) an eco-terrorist can be excellent as a hero or villain depending on the story and world.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
“There are no weak Jews. I am descended from those who wrestle angels and kill giants. We were chosen by God. You were chosen by a pathetic little man who can't seem to grow a full mustache"
"You can tell how dumb someone is by how they use Mary Sue"
Yes, and unlike you I don't ignore everything but the last few paragraphs.
Trophy hunting is among humanity's greatest cruelties, so there's a twisted justice to a monster that collects trophies from humans (though I'm sure the Ikorians wouldn't see the humor).
Monster hunters have many stories of fallen comrades who killed their quarry only to have it rise and exact its revenge. Though the tales are horrifying, at least they all have happy endings (from my perspective, anyway).
Personally, I hope that the citizens may one day return to the ways of their ancestors, learning to live alongside monsters as partners instead of enemies.
Don't at me if you're going to defend a psycho.
And personally I think (for fiction) an eco-terrorist can be excellent as a hero or villain depending on the story and world.
Yes, but said characters are better done with nuance. Vivien is is vegans what the New Warriors are to non-binary people.
Yes, and unlike you I don't ignore everything but the last few paragraphs.
Trophy hunting is among humanity's greatest cruelties, so there's a twisted justice to a monster that collects trophies from humans (though I'm sure the Ikorians wouldn't see the humor).
Monster hunters have many stories of fallen comrades who killed their quarry only to have it rise and exact its revenge. Though the tales are horrifying, at least they all have happy endings (from my perspective, anyway).
Personally, I hope that the citizens may one day return to the ways of their ancestors, learning to live alongside monsters as partners instead of enemies.
Don't at me if you're going to defend a psycho.
Again these aren't people trying to survive they out hunting monsters for fun and profit. The same hunters are even talked about not being the most welcome in the cities, so I doubt they are bring meat and supplies to people who are needing seem more like a black market ring.
And whats with the 3rd quote? Living along monsters seems like a much better deal then having to adapt and live around them attacking you.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
“There are no weak Jews. I am descended from those who wrestle angels and kill giants. We were chosen by God. You were chosen by a pathetic little man who can't seem to grow a full mustache"
"You can tell how dumb someone is by how they use Mary Sue"
In the very first quote she's referring to civilisation in general, not to trophy hunters. And in the third comes across as condescending: "Oh those silly baloon people, they should live in harmony with the giant things trying to kill them, they're totally at fault for that". Especially callous since she previously commended their reluctance to kill beasts.
In the very first quote she's referring to civilisation in general, not to trophy hunters.
Ill give you that but again this comes from distain for trophy hunters of humanity and not how she she feel about humans in general.
And in the third comes across as condescending: "Oh those silly baloon people, they should live in harmony with the giant things trying to kill them, they're totally at fault for that". Especially callous since she previously commended their reluctance to kill beasts.
In the section before she says the city that would become the sky ballon city use to work with monsters that would use light to drive back nightmares monster before one day the light monsters stopped appearing to help. I think thats what she is referring to.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
“There are no weak Jews. I am descended from those who wrestle angels and kill giants. We were chosen by God. You were chosen by a pathetic little man who can't seem to grow a full mustache"
"You can tell how dumb someone is by how they use Mary Sue"
Umm. I can see both points here but again Vivien doesn't seem even ok with hunters even selling what could be life-giving animal byproducts and meat to folks. Luca might be more grounded.
It's interesting (and better than expected) but I think I still prefer Tarkir still. Doesn't help that of the major "races" the only one I really like is Elementals. Calling it "fixed" when it's really not any less or more lopsided than Tarkir in terms of how the colors are portrayed and the tribal element is just kind of blah is... eh. Not something I can agree with. It's an interesting world but not one I can like.
They are continuing the "story on the cards" idea they had with Theros and War of the Spark so here is some fun background info.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
“There are no weak Jews. I am descended from those who wrestle angels and kill giants. We were chosen by God. You were chosen by a pathetic little man who can't seem to grow a full mustache"
"You can tell how dumb someone is by how they use Mary Sue"
Viv is an absolute piece of trash. Throughout the guide she looks down on people trying to defend themselves. This is a plane where monsters constantly kill people, and she's upset that humans kill monsters, mostly in self defense. Basically what I expected from the lady who destroyed an entire city just to free a dinosaur. She's a monster.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
The Meaning of Life: "M-hmm. Well, it's nothing very special. Uh, try and be nice to people, avoid eating fat, read a good book every now and then, get some walking in, and try and live together in peace and harmony with people of all creeds and nations"
Onering's 4 simple steps that let you solve any problem with Magic's gameplay
Whether its blue players countering your spells, red players burning you out, or combo, if you have a problem with an aspect of Magic's gameplay, you can fix it!
Step 1: Identify the problem. What aspect of Magic don't you like? Step 2: Find out how others deal with the problem. How do players deal with this aspect of the game when they run into it? Step 3: Do what those players do. Step 4: No more problem. Bonus: You are now better at Magic. Enjoy those extra wins!
Eh, Vivien is really a strange character. Killing and fighting shouldn't be against green color, since they are basically an inescapable part of life. I think that Garruk (before his corruption) incarnated better the green color.
Eh, Vivien is really a strange character. Killing and fighting shouldn't be against green color, since they are basically an inescapable part of life. I think that Garruk (before his corruption) incarnated better the green color.
Nobody is complaining that Vivien doesn't embody Green. The problem is that she's A) an exceptionally unlikeable POV character, B) pure wasted potential since she could be an awesome Green villain.
I mean, honestly she feels like Sarkhan to me, just Green not Red. Not a great PoV and goals that are maybe on some level understandable but also very much works as a villain.
Though other than killing hunters I’m not sure how Vivien would be a villain. She doesn’t hate humans. She hates poachers/people killing for purposes other than survival.
Given the information we already know about bonders, I think bad things will happen to Lukka based on the title of that novel: The Sundered Bond.
Now whether Lukka goes nuts with that empathic bond with that tiger beast, Vivien kills that tiger beast (by accident, by conflicting with Lukka...), someone else kills the tiger beast and then Lukka suffers greatly, or Drannith welcomes Lukka back but forever separates the tiger beast from him...it's time to guess!
I mean, honestly she feels like Sarkhan to me, just Green not Red. Not a great PoV and goals that are maybe on some level understandable but also very much works as a villain.
Though other than killing hunters I’m not sure how Vivien would be a villain. She doesn’t hate humans. She hates poachers/people killing for purposes other than survival.
"Hate" maybe not, but she makes her absolute *disdain* for humanity very clear.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
To post a comment, please login or register a new account.
https://www.amazon.com/Ikoria-Lair-of-Behemoths-ebook/dp/B086811HMB/ref=sr_1_5?dchild=1&keywords=ikoria&qid=1585165371&sr=8-5
and it looks like more info tomorrow;
https://twitter.com/blakepr/status/1242602705488449536
So I figured we should get a thread going. Not much known lore-wise except;
-Vivien is the lead
-New walker and a returning walker for the other two
-Lots of monsters and a way in game to make your own which might translate into lore
-Mutate as a mechanic, hinting the monster here might not be fully natural
Update:
- Django Wexler is the author the ebook for Ikoria: Sundered Bond.
-Mysterious new character on the front cover.
https://twitter.com/HipstersMTG/status/1243294185991614472
"You can tell how dumb someone is by how they use Mary Sue"
Or just head nod. Head nod works too.
Edit: 5Colours got this.
https://magic.wizards.com/en/articles/archive/making-magic/human-history-2020-03-30
According to Maro, Humans and possibly Human tribal will have some import in/on Ikoria. This new information brings to mind a fact that we already knew, that despite Ikoria's design being mostly bottom-up, some of the set's design will be top-down. I predict, as many already have, that the human-centric elements of Ikoria will represent human civilizations responding to Kaiju monstrosities in a vein, not unlike that of Innistrad; working together to use magic, systems and technology to protect themselves. These elements would fit top-down tropes related to Kaiju movies and related fiction.
Normally I'm not a big fan of artefacts but I strangely found myself actually enjoying the look of the mechs in Kaledesh. I think it would be appropriate and fine were they to appear in Ikoria so long as the flavour and the art strongly convey that these are artifacts powered by magic and possibly powering magic in return.
Of the commander decks that I could see being more human-centric, I could see Ruthless Regiment, Arcane Maelstrom, or Timeless wisdom being somewhat human-tribal.
Ruthless Regiment could be so because it represents Human militia and armies that use centralized social systems to protect the state and society.
R WB or UBW
Arcane Maelstrom might not be human-centric, but I could see it being Wizard-tribal; representing Humanity's mastery over magic in order to defend themselves.
URW I cannot think of another three-colour combo that would better fit this.
Timeless Wisdom could also be human- or spell-centric if it's UW but if it's GUR as many suspect I could see this not being very human-related at all.
In the meantime, if anyone familiar with both and the source material has any ideas of what tropes, narratives and monsters we could expect, I'd greatly appreciate hearing it!
https://magic.wizards.com/en/articles/archive/feature/planeswalkers-guide-ikoria-2020-04-02
my briefs nots and thoughts;
-There be monsters. There are five main types and they can mix and match.
-It seems humans are the only intelligent beings, no elves or goblins. Might be wrong but as I write this, this what it seems to be.
-Human kinda just have to deal with monsters. they defend the best in sanctuary cities they can but there is always a bigger beast to crush walls or break through magical wards.
-Some humans can bond with monsters. It can be on sight or over time getting to know each other. Our new walker Lukka is one of these or becomes one by the end of the story.
-Five major regions called triomes, one for each color or wedge combo it seems.
-Narset hinted being her or have been here.
-Savai is WRB, the main monsters are cats and the apex monster is Snapdax who takes trophy from human hunts and said to have to force humans into building Drannith.
-Drannith is the biggest city and claims to have surivied any attacks on it.
-Drannith was built when humans where nearly killed off.
-Ketria is URG, main monsters are elementals and the apex monster is Illuna who seems to change the stories about them.
-Crystals mutate monster but seem to have no effect on humans. They flare and glow when near monsters so humans use them for defense.
-Indatha seems to be BWG, its monsters are nightmares and the apex monster is Nethroi a necromantic cat nightmare.
-There is a hot balloon city called Skysail.
-Raugrin is RWU, main monster is dinosaurs and Vadrok is the apex monster who said to burned a city and all memories of it, into ash.
-Lavabrink is a city built under a volcanic shelf and uses this to fend off monsters.
-Zagoth is GUB with the main monsters being beasts and the apex beast Brokkos thought to be the eldest of monsters.
-Some humans chose to be monster hunters and tend to not have a good relationship with the cities.
"You can tell how dumb someone is by how they use Mary Sue"
Just reading the PW guide and I'm already annoyed by Vivien. Like, does she even eat meat and use animal byproducts? The most obvious reason for monster hunting in my opinion would be for food, animal byproducts and domestication and none of these seem unwarrented in a world where human survival is so grossly threatened. I originally like Vivien when we first saw her blurb but after reading stories associated with the planeswalker, I'm starting to think I'm ot as G as I once thought. I think I might even get the Human-tribal edh deck. I'm a huge human tribal fan and was previously in the midst of building a Samut-led deck with that theme.
Other Planeswalkers I could imagine being featured on Ikoria if Narset isn't carded is Huatli (Dinosaurs)and of course Kiora.
I like Luca from what info we have on him. His source of conflict is relatable, he cares about humans and monsters, hell his story even has a romantic subplot.
However, Vivien better be the villain. She's so annoying and stupid.
When have they said the dragons lords are good?
Honesty this why I don't really take a lot of y'all criticism as serious. "I don't like her she should be a villain" is weak.
EDIT: not counting you AbzanPlaneswalker, thats a fair point there might be hunters for food and survival, though hunting monsters seems more for sport since there would be better prey.
"You can tell how dumb someone is by how they use Mary Sue"
Its clear from a narrative standpoint that Tarkir was fixed. Sarkhan's biased POV aside, the lands are more vibrant and creative comments imply that everything is better.
Do inform me how an eco-terrorist unironically calling people trying to defend themselves "vile" is a good character as a sympathetic protagonist.
I don't think she does: to me she has always seemed to be the MTG portrayal of a vegan.
And yet Maro has said the Tarkir story is the typical time travel story where the changes makes everything worst with the twist being Sarkhan liking it while everyone else hates it.
Do inform me how an eco-terrorist unironically calling people trying to defend themselves "vile" is a good character as a sympathetic protagonist.[/quote]
Did you read it?
nothing about defending themselves...oh wait
And personally I think (for fiction) an eco-terrorist can be excellent as a hero or villain depending on the story and world.
"You can tell how dumb someone is by how they use Mary Sue"
Yes, and unlike you I don't ignore everything but the last few paragraphs.
Don't at me if you're going to defend a psycho.
Yes, but said characters are better done with nuance. Vivien is is vegans what the New Warriors are to non-binary people.
Again these aren't people trying to survive they out hunting monsters for fun and profit. The same hunters are even talked about not being the most welcome in the cities, so I doubt they are bring meat and supplies to people who are needing seem more like a black market ring.
And whats with the 3rd quote? Living along monsters seems like a much better deal then having to adapt and live around them attacking you.
"You can tell how dumb someone is by how they use Mary Sue"
Ill give you that but again this comes from distain for trophy hunters of humanity and not how she she feel about humans in general.
In the section before she says the city that would become the sky ballon city use to work with monsters that would use light to drive back nightmares monster before one day the light monsters stopped appearing to help. I think thats what she is referring to.
"You can tell how dumb someone is by how they use Mary Sue"
They are continuing the "story on the cards" idea they had with Theros and War of the Spark so here is some fun background info.
"You can tell how dumb someone is by how they use Mary Sue"
Onering's 4 simple steps that let you solve any problem with Magic's gameplay
Step 1: Identify the problem. What aspect of Magic don't you like? Step 2: Find out how others deal with the problem. How do players deal with this aspect of the game when they run into it? Step 3: Do what those players do. Step 4: No more problem. Bonus: You are now better at Magic. Enjoy those extra wins!
Nobody is complaining that Vivien doesn't embody Green. The problem is that she's A) an exceptionally unlikeable POV character, B) pure wasted potential since she could be an awesome Green villain.
Though other than killing hunters I’m not sure how Vivien would be a villain. She doesn’t hate humans. She hates poachers/people killing for purposes other than survival.
Now whether Lukka goes nuts with that empathic bond with that tiger beast, Vivien kills that tiger beast (by accident, by conflicting with Lukka...), someone else kills the tiger beast and then Lukka suffers greatly, or Drannith welcomes Lukka back but forever separates the tiger beast from him...it's time to guess!
"Hate" maybe not, but she makes her absolute *disdain* for humanity very clear.