I know the story of Krenko had been for a while but... I can't seem to find much reaction regarding these specific passages:
The goblin looked smug. "Yeah, I knew you were Gruul. Well, it's crazy around here. Aurelia's gonna be our new master, 'cause she says that no disgraced angel's got the right to rule. Vinrenn's gonna be banished. As long as she makes no trouble, she'll keep her life. Now, no more talking or I'll report you. Got it?"
Suddenly, broad-shouldered guards crowded the room, and Krenko dodged legs to get to the door. As he scampered out, an armored minotaur dragged the angel to her feet, her protests falling on deaf ears.
Krenko beamed. With coin like that, he could buy Azzik and Pondl breakfast every day if he wanted to. Not that he did. Krenko extended his hand to close the deal, but instead of shaking it, Taz handed him a silver key with the Orzhov symbol carved into the shaft.
"An Orzhov safebox," he said. "This key is all you need to retrieve the money."
Krenko's ears perked up. "Whose money?"
"Feather's, actually. She earned a salary as a Wojek for a time. But she won't need it anymore."
I mean, am I the only one who's fearing the worst and that Aurelia's going to execute Feather instead of banish her?
I mean really! First its slobad who ends up dying by some random pack of crazed and scared goblins... now its Feather being possibly killed off, even off screen for that matter.
If she doesn't get a "redemeption" card, I will eat my foil JTMS.
I mean really! First its slobad who ends up dying by some random pack of crazed and scared goblins... now its Feather being possibly killed off, even off screen for that matter.
If she doesn't get a "redemeption" card, I will eat my foil JTMS.
I wonder if they got rid of feather because of copyright reasons. If she was invented by the writer of the Ravnica books (what was his name again?), Wizards might have to pay him royalties everytime they use Feather in a commercial fashion (like printing a card or having her feature in another book). I know that in star trek similar things have happened, like using Tom Paris instead of Nick Locarno in startrek voyager or not using the golden aliens from Journey to Babel in Enterprise.
Wizards owns everything created in pay for work comissions.
Laura invented Gideon, but Wizards owns him and she has no say to how they use him nor is she owed anything for his use.
I mean really! First its slobad who ends up dying by some random pack of crazed and scared goblins... now its Feather being possibly killed off, even off screen for that matter.
If she doesn't get a "redemeption" card, I will eat my foil JTMS.
To be fair, Slobad was exiled from his clan because he was smarter than the rest of them. I think they killed him because he had the mirari.
On topic: She'll likely have the same chance of getting a card that Illulia and Ghalma the Shaper did.
It might be a long shot, but according to MaRo's latest article, we'll be seeing the "Guild Champion" cycle in "Sinker." I'd give Feather at least a decent chance (based on her popularity) of making the cut as the Boros member of that cycle.
And before anyone objects that Feather is a rival Guildmaster, not a 'Champion' - do not forget that in Ravnica, the Golgari member of the cycle was Savra, Queen of the Golgari - also a rival Guildmaster.
It might be a long shot, but according to MaRo's latest article, we'll be seeing the "Guild Champion" cycle in "Sinker." I'd give Feather at least a decent chance (based on her popularity) of making the cut as the Boros member of that cycle.
And before anyone objects that Feather is a rival Guildmaster, not a 'Champion' - do not forget that in Ravnica, the Golgari member of the cycle was Savra, Queen of the Golgari - also a rival Guildmaster.
Well, you want to get technical, Aurelia was the guild champion right up until she pushed Feather into the line of fire. It's a mutable position, and it doesn't mean a lot really, because "champion" was just... "other legends from the guild."
Kos wasn't a champion, he was just a street jek that got pushed way beyond his paygrade. The position of "champion" doesn't really mean anything.
I mean really! First its slobad who ends up dying by some random pack of crazed and scared goblins... now its Feather being possibly killed off, even off screen for that matter.
Autumn is probably the discount season for tickets to Slobad Land... We can only hope Feather and Szadek won't fall for that marketing trick.
It might be a long shot, but according to MaRo's latest article, we'll be seeing the "Guild Champion" cycle in "Sinker." I'd give Feather at least a decent chance (based on her popularity) of making the cut as the Boros member of that cycle.
And before anyone objects that Feather is a rival Guildmaster, not a 'Champion' - do not forget that in Ravnica, the Golgari member of the cycle was Savra, Queen of the Golgari - also a rival Guildmaster.
Sound plausible. The only question is will Wizards be ok with both Boros legendarys to be Angels?
Seeing as how two of the three angels that ever got cards in the block are both Boros, I'd think it's more than okay. Sounds natural to me.
Anyways, something else struck me today. I'm under the impression that most players actually aren't either fans of the original books or just haven't read them. Could it have been the same with Slobad?
Consider the following for a second:
The game likes giving novels the finger... followed by the axe
The game likes giving flavor the finger
It's common notion that most players don't give two bits about flavor these days
Correct me if I'm way off-base (and this is one of those rare moments where I wish I was) but I feel led to the conclusion that not all players know about Feather at all and this is WotC's way of shoving her off-stage.
Anyways, something else struck me today. I'm under the impression that most players actually aren't either fans of the original books or just haven't read them. Could it have been the same with Slobad?
Ravnica is largely considered one of the best trilogies so the only people who didn't like them are the ones who didn't read them.
Mirrodin, meanwhile, was considered one of the worst trilogies.
Consider the following for a second:
The game likes giving novels the finger... followed by the axe
The game likes giving flavor the finger
It's common notion that most players don't give two bits about flavor these days
Correct me if I'm way off-base (and this is one of those rare moments where I wish I was) but I feel led to the conclusion that not all players know about Feather at all and this is WotC's way of shoving her off-stage.
You're fairly off base here. Consider the reaction to the cancellation of the novels followed by the fact that they moved towards e-books only months after they said they were going to stop doing the entirely.
Aside from that... flavor is at an all time high, so where you are getting your ideas is way off base.
Now, the misconception that arise come from the fact that the tournament players don't care, and as the highest profile demographic driving most of the exposure through pro-tourneys, it leads to a stilted depiction of what the market cares about. Blame tournaments.
Ravnica is largely considered one of the best trilogies so the only people who didn't like them are the ones who didn't read them.
Mirrodin, meanwhile, was considered one of the worst trilogies.
I see. Thanks for clarifying. Still, don't you think there was quite an inconsistent viewpoint between players who got their Ravnica flavor from the cards instead of the books? From my past discussions with you, the books were in fact very anti-guild but the cards themselves were pretty pro-Guild.
I guess it's still a good case for Feather herself though.
You're fairly off base here. Consider the reaction to the cancellation of the novels followed by the fact that they moved towards e-books only months after they said they were going to stop doing the entirely.
Aside from that... flavor is at an all time high, so where you are getting your ideas is way off base.
Ah yes, I was expecting someone to bring up the ebook which is a good point. It's just that not many players really care about flavor where I come from (and the one person I know who's genuinely trying is... well, he's still got a long way to go even if he actually has more access to novels than me).
I guess I'd just want more more stats about players who care about flavor as much as gameplay. (Heck, even MORE than gameplay.)
Now, the misconception that arise come from the fact that the tournament players don't care, and as the highest profile demographic driving most of the exposure through pro-tourneys, it leads to a stilted depiction of what the market cares about. Blame tournaments.
*sighs* I feel so tempted to but every time I exhibit the same opinion, I get weird looks. Believe me, I get your point and it's only been frustrating me.
This is why I think this game likes to stretch the relationship between flavor and gameplay to a breaking point.
I see. Thanks for clarifying. Still, don't you think there was quite an inconsistent viewpoint between players who got their Ravnica flavor from the cards instead of the books? From my past discussions with you, the books were in fact very anti-guild but the cards themselves were pretty pro-Guild.
The books were very even handed about their depictions of the guilds, which means all their nastiest bits rose to the surface along with the good. Much the same as the cards only show violence 9 times out of 10, there is more to the world of magic than combat.
The Guilds made up the foundation of the cards, so they never demonstrated the negative aspects. The point was for you to choose a guild and be all about those guilds.
Ah yes, I was expecting someone to bring up the ebook which is a good point. It's just that not many players really care about flavor where I come from (and the one person I know who's genuinely trying is... well, he's still got a long way to go even if he actually has more access to novels than me).
I guess I'd just want more more stats about players who care about flavor as much as gameplay. (Heck, even MORE than gameplay.)
This is just an example of anecdotal data. The important thing to consider in this is where this data collection is taking place.
Between casual players, then it is worrying, but if you are going to the tournament scene for the observations, you're going to get nothing but skewed data.
*sighs* I feel so tempted to but every time I exhibit the same opinion, I get weird looks. Believe me, I get your point and it's only been frustrating me.
This is why I think this game likes to stretch the relationship between flavor and gameplay to a breaking point.
Truthfully, it's just a situation where the problem isn't with you, but with them. Be proud of what you enjoy and if anyone gives you any grief over it, tell them it's THEIR hang up and not yours.
The Guilds made up the foundation of the cards, so they never demonstrated the negative aspects. The point was for you to choose a guild and be all about those guilds.
But that's my point. The cards were all about making the players feel like they're part of a guild, a guild that's not as good as the cards themselves made out. Now every time I see a card that's expressing the sentiment of the oh-so-free guildless I feel like either sighing or gagging. I just hope that his new ebook actually emphasizes with a more pro-guild bent as a foundation rather than something to deconstruct.
But that's my point. The cards were all about making the players feel like they're part of a guild, a guild that's not as good as the cards themselves made out. Now every time I see a card that's expressing the sentiment of the oh-so-free guildless I feel like either sighing or gagging. I just hope that his new ebook actually emphasizes with a more pro-guild bent as a foundation rather than something to deconstruct.
I would prefer it stay as an even take on the guilds rather than a pro-guild bend.
Especially since it's looking like the plot will be about the Gateless throwing themselves against the guilds.
And even then, it's almost certainly going to be told from Jace's perspective outside the guilds.
Isn't anyone else suspicious about Aurelia? I mean, weren't all the angels besides Feather kind of, well, murdered by the Dimir?
Razia made all the other angels copies of herself, so when Feather made the second generation of them, they should also look like Razia, right? But Aurelia's got two wings, while Razia and the first-gen Rav' angels had four.
Isn't anyone else suspicious about Aurelia? I mean, weren't all the angels besides Feather kind of, well, murdered by the Dimir?
Razia made all the other angels copies of herself, so when Feather made the second generation of them, they should also look like Razia, right? But Aurelia's got two wings, while Razia and the first-gen Rav' angels had four.
It is known that Lupul can imitate angels.
We will know more about her when Gatecrash comes around. But she definitely isn't mysterious by any means, one of the few things we know about her is the she directly takes part in Boros activities and will jump in the middle of battle like she doesn't give a damn.
She's probably tied with Borborygmos for being the most non-Dimir guildleader. Plus, she's most certainly the most powerful being within the Boros guild, I doubt some generic shapeshifter could attain that level of strength.
The only reason I could see her being a Dimir shapeshifter is that it would be an extremely lazy way to write a plot twist, so nothing some writers at Wizards would shy away from doing.
The only reason I could see her being a Dimir shapeshifter is that it would be an extremely lazy way to write a plot twist, so nothing some writers at Wizards would shy away from doing.
Questions of laziness aside, somebody has got to turn out to be a Dimir shapeshifter in disguise. I mean, the new Dimir guildmaster is a shapeshifter. Creative wouldn't have made him a shapeshifter if somebody important wasn't going to get shapeshifted into.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
I am a:
Storyline nerd, sliver-lover, vegan, anarchist, pansexual, role-playing, tattoo-covered, punk kid. Those are all the applicable labels I can think of, I will add more as they pop up.
Current decks:
:symr::symw: Allies-Modern
:symg::symu: Infect-Old Standard that I need to update
And trying to decide what my next EDH will be.
I am a :symg::symrg::symr::symur::symu::symug: 'walker all the way.
Questions of laziness aside, somebody has got to turn out to be a Dimir shapeshifter in disguise. I mean, the new Dimir guildmaster is a shapeshifter. Creative wouldn't have made him a shapeshifter if somebody important wasn't going to get shapeshifted into.
Popular thoughts are an individual by the name of "Mr. Taz" that has been hiring Krenko.
The thing here is that the shapeshifter aspect isn't meant to be included so they can impersonate a guild leader. It's to intentionally add tension that nobody knows what Lazav really looks like. He can be anybody. He could be RIGHT BEHIND YOU! AAAAAAAAAAAAAH!!
Point is, you are looking at the wrong side of the coin. Lazav wants less attention drawn to him, not more. Impersonating a guildmaster would be sure fire to draw unwanted attention to him.
Popular thoughts are an individual by the name of "Mr. Taz" that has been hiring Krenko.
The thing here is that the shapeshifter aspect isn't meant to be included so they can impersonate a guild leader. It's to intentionally add tension that nobody knows what Lazav really looks like. He can be anybody. He could be RIGHT BEHIND YOU! AAAAAAAAAAAAAH!!
Point is, you are looking at the wrong side of the coin. Lazav wants less attention drawn to him, not more. Impersonating a guildmaster would be sure fire to draw unwanted attention to him.
Oh, I definitely think Mr. Taz is Lazav. I meant somebody else as well. But I see your point. I wouldn't place a bet on "He won't impersonate someone important," though. I'm not saying any of the guildmasters are him in 100% deep cover, I am just saying that before the block ends, I think it likely he will take the form of at least one guildmaster, or a high ranking guild member, for a bit.
For the record, and to simplify the above: I do NOT think Aurelia has been Lazav this whole time.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
I am a:
Storyline nerd, sliver-lover, vegan, anarchist, pansexual, role-playing, tattoo-covered, punk kid. Those are all the applicable labels I can think of, I will add more as they pop up.
Current decks:
:symr::symw: Allies-Modern
:symg::symu: Infect-Old Standard that I need to update
And trying to decide what my next EDH will be.
I am a :symg::symrg::symr::symur::symu::symug: 'walker all the way.
I mean, am I the only one who's fearing the worst and that Aurelia's going to execute Feather instead of banish her?
thanks to perv90210!
Not enough info, but I doubt they'd put Feather down. She was sufficiently popular that there was a LOT of buzz around her.
Counter the argument with stuff about Slobad, but I think there's a substantial difference between the two situations.
I get what you're saying but I'm just worried that given the above passages, it doesn't look good for everyone's favorite Wojek angel.
I mean really! First its slobad who ends up dying by some random pack of crazed and scared goblins... now its Feather being possibly killed off, even off screen for that matter.
If she doesn't get a "redemeption" card, I will eat my foil JTMS.
I will hold you to that.
On Modern Masters 2:
Will be kept until 12/31/2013 to prove if Right or Wrong.Proven right 1/27/2013Wizards owns everything created in pay for work comissions.
Laura invented Gideon, but Wizards owns him and she has no say to how they use him nor is she owed anything for his use.
To be fair, Slobad was exiled from his clan because he was smarter than the rest of them. I think they killed him because he had the mirari.
On topic: She'll likely have the same chance of getting a card that Illulia and Ghalma the Shaper did.
And before anyone objects that Feather is a rival Guildmaster, not a 'Champion' - do not forget that in Ravnica, the Golgari member of the cycle was Savra, Queen of the Golgari - also a rival Guildmaster.
Article here: http://www.wizards.com/Magic/Magazine/Article.aspx?x=mtg/daily/mm/213
Well, you want to get technical, Aurelia was the guild champion right up until she pushed Feather into the line of fire. It's a mutable position, and it doesn't mean a lot really, because "champion" was just... "other legends from the guild."
Kos wasn't a champion, he was just a street jek that got pushed way beyond his paygrade. The position of "champion" doesn't really mean anything.
Autumn is probably the discount season for tickets to Slobad Land... We can only hope Feather and Szadek won't fall for that marketing trick.
Sound plausible. The only question is will Wizards be ok with both Boros legendarys to be Angels?
Ouch.
Seeing as how two of the three angels that ever got cards in the block are both Boros, I'd think it's more than okay. Sounds natural to me.
Anyways, something else struck me today. I'm under the impression that most players actually aren't either fans of the original books or just haven't read them. Could it have been the same with Slobad?
Consider the following for a second:
Correct me if I'm way off-base (and this is one of those rare moments where I wish I was) but I feel led to the conclusion that not all players know about Feather at all and this is WotC's way of shoving her off-stage.
Ravnica is largely considered one of the best trilogies so the only people who didn't like them are the ones who didn't read them.
Mirrodin, meanwhile, was considered one of the worst trilogies.
You're fairly off base here. Consider the reaction to the cancellation of the novels followed by the fact that they moved towards e-books only months after they said they were going to stop doing the entirely.
Aside from that... flavor is at an all time high, so where you are getting your ideas is way off base.
Now, the misconception that arise come from the fact that the tournament players don't care, and as the highest profile demographic driving most of the exposure through pro-tourneys, it leads to a stilted depiction of what the market cares about. Blame tournaments.
I see. Thanks for clarifying. Still, don't you think there was quite an inconsistent viewpoint between players who got their Ravnica flavor from the cards instead of the books? From my past discussions with you, the books were in fact very anti-guild but the cards themselves were pretty pro-Guild.
I guess it's still a good case for Feather herself though.
Ah yes, I was expecting someone to bring up the ebook which is a good point. It's just that not many players really care about flavor where I come from (and the one person I know who's genuinely trying is... well, he's still got a long way to go even if he actually has more access to novels than me).
I guess I'd just want more more stats about players who care about flavor as much as gameplay. (Heck, even MORE than gameplay.)
*sighs* I feel so tempted to but every time I exhibit the same opinion, I get weird looks. Believe me, I get your point and it's only been frustrating me.
This is why I think this game likes to stretch the relationship between flavor and gameplay to a breaking point.
The books were very even handed about their depictions of the guilds, which means all their nastiest bits rose to the surface along with the good. Much the same as the cards only show violence 9 times out of 10, there is more to the world of magic than combat.
The Guilds made up the foundation of the cards, so they never demonstrated the negative aspects. The point was for you to choose a guild and be all about those guilds.
This is just an example of anecdotal data. The important thing to consider in this is where this data collection is taking place.
Between casual players, then it is worrying, but if you are going to the tournament scene for the observations, you're going to get nothing but skewed data.
Truthfully, it's just a situation where the problem isn't with you, but with them. Be proud of what you enjoy and if anyone gives you any grief over it, tell them it's THEIR hang up and not yours.
But that's my point. The cards were all about making the players feel like they're part of a guild, a guild that's not as good as the cards themselves made out. Now every time I see a card that's expressing the sentiment of the oh-so-free guildless I feel like either sighing or gagging. I just hope that his new ebook actually emphasizes with a more pro-guild bent as a foundation rather than something to deconstruct.
I would prefer it stay as an even take on the guilds rather than a pro-guild bend.
Especially since it's looking like the plot will be about the Gateless throwing themselves against the guilds.
And even then, it's almost certainly going to be told from Jace's perspective outside the guilds.
Razia made all the other angels copies of herself, so when Feather made the second generation of them, they should also look like Razia, right? But Aurelia's got two wings, while Razia and the first-gen Rav' angels had four.
It is known that Lupul can imitate angels.
We will know more about her when Gatecrash comes around. But she definitely isn't mysterious by any means, one of the few things we know about her is the she directly takes part in Boros activities and will jump in the middle of battle like she doesn't give a damn.
She's probably tied with Borborygmos for being the most non-Dimir guildleader. Plus, she's most certainly the most powerful being within the Boros guild, I doubt some generic shapeshifter could attain that level of strength.
The only reason I could see her being a Dimir shapeshifter is that it would be an extremely lazy way to write a plot twist, so nothing some writers at Wizards would shy away from doing.
Questions of laziness aside, somebody has got to turn out to be a Dimir shapeshifter in disguise. I mean, the new Dimir guildmaster is a shapeshifter. Creative wouldn't have made him a shapeshifter if somebody important wasn't going to get shapeshifted into.
:symg::symu: Infect-Old Standard that I need to update
And trying to decide what my next EDH will be.
I am a :symg::symrg::symr::symur::symu::symug: 'walker all the way.
Popular thoughts are an individual by the name of "Mr. Taz" that has been hiring Krenko.
The thing here is that the shapeshifter aspect isn't meant to be included so they can impersonate a guild leader. It's to intentionally add tension that nobody knows what Lazav really looks like. He can be anybody. He could be RIGHT BEHIND YOU! AAAAAAAAAAAAAH!!
Point is, you are looking at the wrong side of the coin. Lazav wants less attention drawn to him, not more. Impersonating a guildmaster would be sure fire to draw unwanted attention to him.
Oh, I definitely think Mr. Taz is Lazav. I meant somebody else as well. But I see your point. I wouldn't place a bet on "He won't impersonate someone important," though. I'm not saying any of the guildmasters are him in 100% deep cover, I am just saying that before the block ends, I think it likely he will take the form of at least one guildmaster, or a high ranking guild member, for a bit.
For the record, and to simplify the above: I do NOT think Aurelia has been Lazav this whole time.
:symg::symu: Infect-Old Standard that I need to update
And trying to decide what my next EDH will be.
I am a :symg::symrg::symr::symur::symu::symug: 'walker all the way.