Well, I mean the problems I have with Arena are things that are the weakness of MtG to begin with.
1) Being stuck on 3 lands, which I drew, in a deck that has 26 lands to compensate for the god awful mana curve the starter decks have, and then getting annihilated by a guy with the exact same deck that was unmodified with 24 lands. Three times in a row...
MTG Arena, are you telling me I need a 50% deck of lands to draw lands 4-6?!
2) Standard Pauper as a competitive format that awards not one, not two, but a full playset of Llanowar elves! Do they realize how many common wild cards you end up with by the end of a few games?! I literally have nothing that I want that is common because this game sticks everything worth owning at rare and mythic. Sometimes at uncommon. Mostly at rare and mythic.
3) All of my wild cards are going to lands. I'm not sure how someone catches up in this game without mindlessly dying or winning on horrible garbage fire.
Let me put it this way: If I wanted to play an MMO and experience all the aggravating problems common to those games, I'd play FFXIV or World of Warcraft. This game is literally designed to be an MMO in card game form that uses the mana-base to force people to constantly churn and burn their money away. Well, technically it's going to be rotation, which will then evolve into standard plus where people will have to burn wild cards for both standard legal cards and eternal cards, with no way to trade around the cards with other players.
Private Mod Note
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1. (Ravnica Allegiance): You can't keep a good esper control deck down... Or Wilderness Reclamation... or Gates...
2. (War of the Spark): Guys, I know what we need! We need a cycle of really idiotic flavor text victory cards! Jace's Triumph...
3. (War of the Spark): Lets make the format with control have even more control!
Make money in a fairly toxic manner, actually. It's the downward slope of the video game industry as a whole and why the gambling industry and tobacco industry is the way it is. When there is no natural need for a product and success is extremely variable due to likes and dislikes, the easiest way to get money is to take advantage of compulsions and insecurity.
It's really hard to combat it because there's basically no human alive that isn't capable of falling for the same trap and ultimately being labeled a hypocrite in the process of enacting legislation. Games like Path of Exile survive off a healthier model by making people want to play the game more, and simply stopping production of the game when people are no longer interested. Magic the Gathering is engineered far differently, and the only reason it is livable is the secondary market in paper. Without having that secondary market, there is no way to buy out of a bad scenario.
Also, to make it worse, it appears one can not purchase sets that have rotated out in Arena. That means that for standard plus, people joining late would have to expend wild cards on the rotated sets, assuming that is even possible. Not to mention if someone stopped playing or got tired of playing, the way the system is set up they would still probably have to buy packs to keep up with the game. So either someone is playing forever until they die, or they play, take a break, and then spend money while they are taking a break to make up for not playing the game. Why? Because if someone doesn't do so they will fall behind and potentially get locked out of certain decks.
1. (Ravnica Allegiance): You can't keep a good esper control deck down... Or Wilderness Reclamation... or Gates...
2. (War of the Spark): Guys, I know what we need! We need a cycle of really idiotic flavor text victory cards! Jace's Triumph...
3. (War of the Spark): Lets make the format with control have even more control!
I don't know considering my investment is time, and you don't know how Rotation will work, I'm certainly not going to say this model is more toxic than the disaster that is MTGO Economy.
Then again, I'm not against the Overwatch Lootbox model, or the Total War DLC model, but I haven't spent a fraction in either of those games, as I have in MTGO where cards are way out of touch.
it appears one can not purchase sets that have rotated out in Arena. That means that for standard plus, people joining late would have to expend wild cards on the rotated sets, assuming that is even possible.
This is an odd point of criticism... currently there is no format in which to play anything that's not standard legal, so it would be mostly pointless and unnecessarily confusing to sell packs with absolutely no immediate play value.
I'm a terrible player, took me months to win one game and still lose every game since, but I don't blame Arena. The game is good - that's if you are a half decent player already. In essence however, to answer the thread topic, it DOES suck for a new player, until you either "git gud" or end up like me.
it appears one can not purchase sets that have rotated out in Arena. That means that for standard plus, people joining late would have to expend wild cards on the rotated sets, assuming that is even possible.
This is an odd point of criticism... currently there is no format in which to play anything that's not standard legal, so it would be mostly pointless and unnecessarily confusing to sell packs with absolutely no immediate play value.
Even if they did have a format I doubt anyone would have the inclination to buy packs of rotated sets for an eternal format. The game is about picking up wild cards and spending those, while randomly getting filler during the interim. Plus if they offered old packs it would remove some of the urgency to keep up with the rotation of the sets.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
1. (Ravnica Allegiance): You can't keep a good esper control deck down... Or Wilderness Reclamation... or Gates...
2. (War of the Spark): Guys, I know what we need! We need a cycle of really idiotic flavor text victory cards! Jace's Triumph...
3. (War of the Spark): Lets make the format with control have even more control!
I can promise you right now, if older sets are introduced, they will be done in the exact same way as MTGO, with Drafts. So yes, people WILL buy Packs, and people will use Wildcards, if they wish.
MTGA is really frustrating, dunno why just some things just feel awkward.
-Like 3 lands in a match and then not another land for like 5 turns.
-Having to specify unclaimed territory that you want to tap for mana, when you have spells in hand.(probably user error on my end, but still)
Also drafting is annoying, I don't mind picking cards but playing draft, I really hate, but there is no other way to get the packs.
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"To keep things 100, anything I state is an opinion and not intended to be a fact. Any and all suggestions I give are a 100% opinion. If you need further clarification take the conversation to a PM. I am not in the business of assuming things. I'm only interested in 1 business and that business serves 2 things, Cold L's and Hot Dub's."
Agreed with ksyg. Also, I am not big on having to wait 10 minutes every time I play a turn, especially if they are tapped out.
That auto-stop feature is SO annoying.
Play Rustwing Falcon...sits there for ages. Then resolves.
Play Rustwing Falcon...Sits there for ages. Then resolves.
Play Shock...Sits there for ages. Then resolves.
When RDW/Boros mirror matches take place and they drag on forever...kinda gets a bit dreary.
I've been playing MTGArena and been enjoying it. I've mostly just been brewing my own decks with little success :P, but it's fun.
My only concern is longevity to the game in the constructed format. Staying current when only playing a few games a week seems like an impossibility. I can pay say $90 for gems a few times a year, but even that's a stretch and opening packs for wildcards is just expensive and a massive money sink. I'd rather just splash on paper (Where I have already splashed a lot of cash).
So I'm thinking Limited is the best way to go.
Anyone know if you have to complete a draft in a single sitting or can I for example draft my deck today then play the draft out over a few days?
I'm enjoying the game, I'm just not spending any money on the game because the ratios and the modes are not worth the money. The only thing happening in my mind when someone runs into the tier deck wall is quitting the game or grinding out free packs. Maybe play the alternative modes if they save enough gold to do one.
Honestly, I don't even know who to blame for this financial stupidity with the packs and the skimpy rewards. This really feels like WoTC executive management Byzantine empire crap happening again and somehow the freebie events are supposed to make up for it. I'm not asking for Rekindling phoenix to start popping out of the broom closets, but there are some major problems with the wild card system, the gem per reward ratio, and a whole lot of other details that are all linked to direct copy pasta of the "implied" paper market, which is why we have a vibrant secondary market selling singles in paper. If WoTC can't fix their problem, might as well have someone else do it for them.
1. (Ravnica Allegiance): You can't keep a good esper control deck down... Or Wilderness Reclamation... or Gates...
2. (War of the Spark): Guys, I know what we need! We need a cycle of really idiotic flavor text victory cards! Jace's Triumph...
3. (War of the Spark): Lets make the format with control have even more control!
What exactly is the problem if you can play for free, and (eventually) get a full blown Tier 1 deck, valued at $200+ for literally nothing?
Time is the problem. You do actually have to keep opening packs at a pretty rigorous pace thanks to standard rotation, and the free packs are variable depending on the skill of the player. While someone can play for free, they likely wont be able to if they want to reach higher tiers of play due to rotation.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
1. (Ravnica Allegiance): You can't keep a good esper control deck down... Or Wilderness Reclamation... or Gates...
2. (War of the Spark): Guys, I know what we need! We need a cycle of really idiotic flavor text victory cards! Jace's Triumph...
3. (War of the Spark): Lets make the format with control have even more control!
I've been playing MTGArena and been enjoying it. I've mostly just been brewing my own decks with little success :P, but it's fun.
My only concern is longevity to the game in the constructed format. Staying current when only playing a few games a week seems like an impossibility. I can pay say $90 for gems a few times a year, but even that's a stretch and opening packs for wildcards is just expensive and a massive money sink. I'd rather just splash on paper (Where I have already splashed a lot of cash).
So I'm thinking Limited is the best way to go.
Anyone know if you have to complete a draft in a single sitting or can I for example draft my deck today then play the draft out over a few days?
I'm not 100% sure where I saw this, but if I remember correctly you have 30 minutes to complete the draft, and 2 hours to complete your games for that draft. You can't play more than 9 games (since you go until 7 wins or 3 losses) which averages out to allowing about 15 minutes per game. (If you've started a game when you roll over the 2-hour mark it'll let you finish that game) Honestly, I can't see very many limited games going that long; most of my drafts I've probably gone start to finish in 90 minutes or less.
As for staying competitive, it honestly doesn't take THAT much time and effort to put together a tier 1 deck, so long as you know what you're aiming for. I've done it with just having bought the $5 welcome pack and a bit of luck - I have a fully powered Golgari Midrange deck, and I'm currently working out the rest of the pieces for mono-red burn as well. That you only play "A few games a week" is probably the bigger issue - I usually put in 4-5 hours on Arena a week to have this much output, and I know there's plenty of people who make that look tiny. Ultimately it's got to be what you're comfortable with.
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Top 16 - 2012 Indiana State Championships Currently Playing: GBStandard - Golgari Safari MidrangeBG RBWModern - Mardu PyromancerWBR RLegacy - Good Old Fashioned BurnR
What exactly is the problem if you can play for free, and (eventually) get a full blown Tier 1 deck, valued at $200+ for literally nothing?
Time is the problem. You do actually have to keep opening packs at a pretty rigorous pace thanks to standard rotation, and the free packs are variable depending on the skill of the player. While someone can play for free, they likely wont be able to if they want to reach higher tiers of play due to rotation.
No may man. I have all of Drakes, most of UWR Control, most of Golgari Mid, and could put together Esper or Grixis Control pretty quick, with 2 Mythics, 2 Rares, and somehow 15 Uncommon/13 Common, wild cards.
I started around Open beta, so where is this issue with Rotation?
Nope. The model is more than fine, especially if you dont want to even PAY FOR THE GAME.
Anyone know if you have to complete a draft in a single sitting or can I for example draft my deck today then play the draft out over a few days?
I'm not 100% sure where I saw this, but if I remember correctly you have 30 minutes to complete the draft, and 2 hours to complete your games for that draft. You can't play more than 9 games (since you go until 7 wins or 3 losses) which averages out to allowing about 15 minutes per game. (If you've started a game when you roll over the 2-hour mark it'll let you finish that game) Honestly, I can't see very many limited games going that long; most of my drafts I've probably gone start to finish in 90 minutes or less.
Not really sure about a time contraint on drafting, but 2 hours for games is definitely wrong. You may keep any event open as long as it's available (so until the change of sets every 2 weeks for quick draft). You just can't pause between individual games of a bo3 event, obviously.
I started playing Arena in the last week or so and only dropped the $5 for the welcome pack. I already have my Runaway Red deck except 3 chainwhirlers. (Just replaced them with Lava Coils for the time being.) The main issue I see is that after the first deck, any other decks are a bit of a slog to attain. Especially if they don't have a color in common with the original one you build. That said, I'm fine with only having the deck I actually own in paper. I can see how this would be more of an issue for others though. It's probably a little harder to build Golgari Aggro or Jeskai Control on there than mono red lol.
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Decks: Modern:
Pyro Prison
Sun and Moon
Eldrazi Stompy
Spoken alike any fan of a F2P game who doesn't have to deal with such stresses as work/uni, children (and schools, and nurserys, and bedtimes, etc), or caring for a relative, or travelling for work, or basically any time consuming responsibilities.
Tested MTG:A. Hated it. It seems just like a mobile game market strapped to a STD orientated replacement for MTG:O that cares more about encouraging you to reach for your wallet than actually fostering growth of the game via positive word of mouth. Also, a lot of it seems cut and pasted from Hearthstone and PTCG:O in it's design... specifically the 'how to fish for wallets' aspects, with little of what made those clients endearing to their respective audiences. Honestly, it just seems like Duels Of The Planeswalkers Mobile Edition to me.
From my vantage point if you've spare change or an abundance of time, and enjoy STD, competitive orientated play, then MTG:A is great for you. But if you just wanna play some 2HG or Commander 'n' have a chat on mic with your mates over a drink or two while the kids are at the grandparents, then you're still stuck with the decaying, clumsy and generally awful MTG:O client.
I'm a full-time college student and also work a full-time job to pay for college. I still can squeeze in 4-5 hours on Arena each week, which is enough for several queues and quick games to fill out daily quests. Granted those are my only two significant time sinks, but the fact still remains that it can be done.
The point about it being "standard or nothing" is a very reasonable one, and I would love to see more formats (especially formats that reach backwards into magic, modern and even legacy are fun to mess around with.) but I also get that getting all of those cards coded to work right take time and effort. The fact that this current standard format is one of the best in recent memory helps a lot to help it be worth playing though, and as long as we eventually get things that aren't "IXN-forward NuModern" I'm willing to play this standard while they code things in.
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Top 16 - 2012 Indiana State Championships Currently Playing: GBStandard - Golgari Safari MidrangeBG RBWModern - Mardu PyromancerWBR RLegacy - Good Old Fashioned BurnR
1) Being stuck on 3 lands, which I drew, in a deck that has 26 lands to compensate for the god awful mana curve the starter decks have, and then getting annihilated by a guy with the exact same deck that was unmodified with 24 lands. Three times in a row...
MTG Arena, are you telling me I need a 50% deck of lands to draw lands 4-6?!
2) Standard Pauper as a competitive format that awards not one, not two, but a full playset of Llanowar elves! Do they realize how many common wild cards you end up with by the end of a few games?! I literally have nothing that I want that is common because this game sticks everything worth owning at rare and mythic. Sometimes at uncommon. Mostly at rare and mythic.
3) All of my wild cards are going to lands. I'm not sure how someone catches up in this game without mindlessly dying or winning on horrible garbage fire.
Let me put it this way: If I wanted to play an MMO and experience all the aggravating problems common to those games, I'd play FFXIV or World of Warcraft. This game is literally designed to be an MMO in card game form that uses the mana-base to force people to constantly churn and burn their money away. Well, technically it's going to be rotation, which will then evolve into standard plus where people will have to burn wild cards for both standard legal cards and eternal cards, with no way to trade around the cards with other players.
1. (Ravnica Allegiance): You can't keep a good esper control deck down... Or Wilderness Reclamation... or Gates...
2. (War of the Spark): Guys, I know what we need! We need a cycle of really idiotic flavor text victory cards! Jace's Triumph...
3. (War of the Spark): Lets make the format with control have even more control!
Frankly, I'm shocked.
Spirits
Make money in a fairly toxic manner, actually. It's the downward slope of the video game industry as a whole and why the gambling industry and tobacco industry is the way it is. When there is no natural need for a product and success is extremely variable due to likes and dislikes, the easiest way to get money is to take advantage of compulsions and insecurity.
It's really hard to combat it because there's basically no human alive that isn't capable of falling for the same trap and ultimately being labeled a hypocrite in the process of enacting legislation. Games like Path of Exile survive off a healthier model by making people want to play the game more, and simply stopping production of the game when people are no longer interested. Magic the Gathering is engineered far differently, and the only reason it is livable is the secondary market in paper. Without having that secondary market, there is no way to buy out of a bad scenario.
Also, to make it worse, it appears one can not purchase sets that have rotated out in Arena. That means that for standard plus, people joining late would have to expend wild cards on the rotated sets, assuming that is even possible. Not to mention if someone stopped playing or got tired of playing, the way the system is set up they would still probably have to buy packs to keep up with the game. So either someone is playing forever until they die, or they play, take a break, and then spend money while they are taking a break to make up for not playing the game. Why? Because if someone doesn't do so they will fall behind and potentially get locked out of certain decks.
1. (Ravnica Allegiance): You can't keep a good esper control deck down... Or Wilderness Reclamation... or Gates...
2. (War of the Spark): Guys, I know what we need! We need a cycle of really idiotic flavor text victory cards! Jace's Triumph...
3. (War of the Spark): Lets make the format with control have even more control!
Then again, I'm not against the Overwatch Lootbox model, or the Total War DLC model, but I haven't spent a fraction in either of those games, as I have in MTGO where cards are way out of touch.
Spirits
This is an odd point of criticism... currently there is no format in which to play anything that's not standard legal, so it would be mostly pointless and unnecessarily confusing to sell packs with absolutely no immediate play value.
W(W/U)U Ephara - Flash & Taxes W(W/U)U || B(B/G)G Meren - Circle of Life B(B/G)G
RGW Marath - Ever shifting Wilds RGW || (U/R)C(W/B) Breya - Artificial Dominion (U/R)C(W/B)
UBR Becket Brass - take what you can, give nothing back UBR
Even if they did have a format I doubt anyone would have the inclination to buy packs of rotated sets for an eternal format. The game is about picking up wild cards and spending those, while randomly getting filler during the interim. Plus if they offered old packs it would remove some of the urgency to keep up with the rotation of the sets.
1. (Ravnica Allegiance): You can't keep a good esper control deck down... Or Wilderness Reclamation... or Gates...
2. (War of the Spark): Guys, I know what we need! We need a cycle of really idiotic flavor text victory cards! Jace's Triumph...
3. (War of the Spark): Lets make the format with control have even more control!
Spirits
-Like 3 lands in a match and then not another land for like 5 turns.
-Having to specify unclaimed territory that you want to tap for mana, when you have spells in hand.(probably user error on my end, but still)
Also drafting is annoying, I don't mind picking cards but playing draft, I really hate, but there is no other way to get the packs.
-Stay Frosty
That auto-stop feature is SO annoying.
Play Rustwing Falcon...sits there for ages. Then resolves.
Play Rustwing Falcon...Sits there for ages. Then resolves.
Play Shock...Sits there for ages. Then resolves.
When RDW/Boros mirror matches take place and they drag on forever...kinda gets a bit dreary.
4 art assistant
4 siren
3 storm fleet
3 warkite marauder
4 temp drake
4 wiz retort
2 sleep
2 entrancing melody
3 divedown
4 obsession
2 opt
2 chart course
3 favoravle winds
20 island
My only concern is longevity to the game in the constructed format. Staying current when only playing a few games a week seems like an impossibility. I can pay say $90 for gems a few times a year, but even that's a stretch and opening packs for wildcards is just expensive and a massive money sink. I'd rather just splash on paper (Where I have already splashed a lot of cash).
So I'm thinking Limited is the best way to go.
Anyone know if you have to complete a draft in a single sitting or can I for example draft my deck today then play the draft out over a few days?
Honestly, I don't even know who to blame for this financial stupidity with the packs and the skimpy rewards. This really feels like WoTC executive management Byzantine empire crap happening again and somehow the freebie events are supposed to make up for it. I'm not asking for Rekindling phoenix to start popping out of the broom closets, but there are some major problems with the wild card system, the gem per reward ratio, and a whole lot of other details that are all linked to direct copy pasta of the "implied" paper market, which is why we have a vibrant secondary market selling singles in paper. If WoTC can't fix their problem, might as well have someone else do it for them.
1. (Ravnica Allegiance): You can't keep a good esper control deck down... Or Wilderness Reclamation... or Gates...
2. (War of the Spark): Guys, I know what we need! We need a cycle of really idiotic flavor text victory cards! Jace's Triumph...
3. (War of the Spark): Lets make the format with control have even more control!
Spirits
Time is the problem. You do actually have to keep opening packs at a pretty rigorous pace thanks to standard rotation, and the free packs are variable depending on the skill of the player. While someone can play for free, they likely wont be able to if they want to reach higher tiers of play due to rotation.
1. (Ravnica Allegiance): You can't keep a good esper control deck down... Or Wilderness Reclamation... or Gates...
2. (War of the Spark): Guys, I know what we need! We need a cycle of really idiotic flavor text victory cards! Jace's Triumph...
3. (War of the Spark): Lets make the format with control have even more control!
I'm not 100% sure where I saw this, but if I remember correctly you have 30 minutes to complete the draft, and 2 hours to complete your games for that draft. You can't play more than 9 games (since you go until 7 wins or 3 losses) which averages out to allowing about 15 minutes per game. (If you've started a game when you roll over the 2-hour mark it'll let you finish that game) Honestly, I can't see very many limited games going that long; most of my drafts I've probably gone start to finish in 90 minutes or less.
As for staying competitive, it honestly doesn't take THAT much time and effort to put together a tier 1 deck, so long as you know what you're aiming for. I've done it with just having bought the $5 welcome pack and a bit of luck - I have a fully powered Golgari Midrange deck, and I'm currently working out the rest of the pieces for mono-red burn as well. That you only play "A few games a week" is probably the bigger issue - I usually put in 4-5 hours on Arena a week to have this much output, and I know there's plenty of people who make that look tiny. Ultimately it's got to be what you're comfortable with.
Currently Playing:
GBStandard - Golgari Safari MidrangeBG
RBWModern - Mardu PyromancerWBR
RLegacy - Good Old Fashioned BurnR
Clan Contest 3 Mafia - Mafia Co-MVP
No may man. I have all of Drakes, most of UWR Control, most of Golgari Mid, and could put together Esper or Grixis Control pretty quick, with 2 Mythics, 2 Rares, and somehow 15 Uncommon/13 Common, wild cards.
I started around Open beta, so where is this issue with Rotation?
Nope. The model is more than fine, especially if you dont want to even PAY FOR THE GAME.
Spirits
Not really sure about a time contraint on drafting, but 2 hours for games is definitely wrong. You may keep any event open as long as it's available (so until the change of sets every 2 weeks for quick draft). You just can't pause between individual games of a bo3 event, obviously.
W(W/U)U Ephara - Flash & Taxes W(W/U)U || B(B/G)G Meren - Circle of Life B(B/G)G
RGW Marath - Ever shifting Wilds RGW || (U/R)C(W/B) Breya - Artificial Dominion (U/R)C(W/B)
UBR Becket Brass - take what you can, give nothing back UBR
Modern:
Pyro Prison
Sun and Moon
Eldrazi Stompy
I'm a full-time college student and also work a full-time job to pay for college. I still can squeeze in 4-5 hours on Arena each week, which is enough for several queues and quick games to fill out daily quests. Granted those are my only two significant time sinks, but the fact still remains that it can be done.
The point about it being "standard or nothing" is a very reasonable one, and I would love to see more formats (especially formats that reach backwards into magic, modern and even legacy are fun to mess around with.) but I also get that getting all of those cards coded to work right take time and effort. The fact that this current standard format is one of the best in recent memory helps a lot to help it be worth playing though, and as long as we eventually get things that aren't "IXN-forward NuModern" I'm willing to play this standard while they code things in.
Currently Playing:
GBStandard - Golgari Safari MidrangeBG
RBWModern - Mardu PyromancerWBR
RLegacy - Good Old Fashioned BurnR
Clan Contest 3 Mafia - Mafia Co-MVP