Hmm, interesting card, doubt it'll make it to constructed unless Big Red and White Control (with CoP:red) make a big comeback, lol, and even then it'll be sideboard at best. Useful draft, but nothing to jump for joy about.
really though...in extended RDW vs life.dec...gain infinite= gain NONE and lsoe 4...
Do it in response to them saccing their guy...their abilities are usess with a creature that gets +0/+X from themm...good hoser...i imagine someone already said this but oh well
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_____________
“Game over,” Lursen said. “Demon’s Horn.”
Demon’s Horn has a reputation in multiplayer games, Lursen said.“Usually if somebody in multiplayer plays a Demon’s Horn, we all just immediately attack that person, because he’s going to win,” Lursen said.
I think WOTC is trying to open the deckbuilders' mind by doing non-creature damage spells a bit more versatile and tricky. I remember a lot of people crying "foul" when Pulse of the Forge was released, and now we've learned it's a great card.
The card will probably fit in the new "philosophy of fire" deck concepts.
just my 2c.
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Actually, Lava Spike isn't faster - it's a sorcery. It's also not better - it does less damage. I think the words you're looking for are "slower" and "worse". But yes, it's cheaper.
EDIT:
Quote from Ninjahop »
Great card, that's about the closest well get to an incinerate.
Now this is more like it!! A solid card in limited, a good addition to sideboards and maybe even playable in block. CoP no more. This puts Lava Axe to shame.
Most red burn puts Lava Axe to shame. I agree that this is nice in limited, especially if it's Arcane. However, in constructed more versatile burn like Magma Jet, Volcanic Hammer, and Shrapnel Blast are going to stay on top.
EDIT: In block, IF this is Arcane, it will go nicely with Lava Spike and Glacial Ray. Just one more thing for you to splice the Glacial Ray onto. If it's not Arcane...it's not useless. Just not good.
this card, despite sucking, is proving quite interesting. you can almost judge how experianced people are at this game by there response to this.
for those of you who dont understand let me explain to you why this card has no place in competetive play besides the rare sideboard if you are expecting a LOT of lifegain (and even then, it might be better just to play really quick EFFICIENT burn and kill them before the combo goes off).
Efficiancy: this is inefficiant. 3 mana for 4 damage is not that great. lava spike (dont get me wrong, it sucks), is 3 for 1, a far better deal. the reason pulse of the forge is played is that it can be used multiple times, being up to 12 or 16 damage over a seiries of turns with 1 card.
can't target creatures: there is no good fast red burn deck in standard, and other formats have better options for player damage. (exception: block- but i havent seen any lifegain in block either besides 1 bad white arcane spell). modern red decks require killing enemy creatures with burn for either control, or to clear the way for firewalkers and pups.
superior options: lets look at what this card does well. it negates life gain. it delays extended life gain for 1 turn (big whoop...). negating life gain in standard it pointless. if someone is playing nourish, then not only do they suck, but pulse is still a better option. with pulse they can play nourish 10 times and you will keep on getting pulse back. this has only a one time use. against white decks with pulse of the fields, this will do 4 damage and delay the fields use for 1 turn (after 4 damage they will get the pulse back). giving your opponent card advantage has never been a good plan.
so far, the only good point to this card is that in a rare ocation, it jumps from a janky sideboard and slows extended life down a turn. but think about it. if you are red deck wins, the ONLY reason to play this card is to help your life matchup. there is NO OTHER REASON as there is a better spell for every other match. However, this isnt even the best card for the life matchup, sulfuric vortex is.
for those of you who are still not convinced, think of the card everyone is comparing this to. LAVA SPIKE. enough said.
not exactly limited dynamite, it'd only be playable in the most aggro of limited decks(a bit like lava spike). But in constructed most red decks will won't to run a couple in the sideboard against white decks with cop: red.
this card, despite sucking, is proving quite interesting. you can almost judge how experianced people are at this game by there response to this.
for those of you who dont understand let me explain to you why this card has no place in competetive play besides the rare sideboard if you are expecting a LOT of lifegain (and even then, it might be better just to play really quick EFFICIENT burn and kill them before the combo goes off).
Efficiancy: this is inefficiant. 3 mana for 4 damage is not that great. lava spike (dont get me wrong, it sucks), is 3 for 1, a far better deal. the reason pulse of the forge is played is that it can be used multiple times, being up to 12 or 16 damage over a seiries of turns with 1 card.
can't target creatures: there is no good fast red burn deck in standard, and other formats have better options for player damage. (exception: block- but i havent seen any lifegain in block either besides 1 bad white arcane spell). modern red decks require killing enemy creatures with burn for either control, or to clear the way for firewalkers and pups.
superior options: lets look at what this card does well. it negates life gain. it delays extended life gain for 1 turn (big whoop...). negating life gain in standard it pointless. if someone is playing nourish, then not only do they suck, but pulse is still a better option. with pulse they can play nourish 10 times and you will keep on getting pulse back. this has only a one time use. against white decks with pulse of the fields, this will do 4 damage and delay the fields use for 1 turn (after 4 damage they will get the pulse back). giving your opponent card advantage has never been a good plan.
so far, the only good point to this card is that in a rare ocation, it jumps from a janky sideboard and slows extended life down a turn. but think about it. if you are red deck wins, the ONLY reason to play this card is to help your life matchup. there is NO OTHER REASON as there is a better spell for every other match. However, this isnt even the best card for the life matchup, sulfuric vortex is.
for those of you who are still not convinced, think of the card everyone is comparing this to. LAVA SPIKE. enough said.
1. 3 mana for 4 damage is quite efficient IMO.
2. How about Big Red? That's a fast red burn deck that uses Arc-Slogger and Kumano as a win condition.
3. It delays Extended Life until they can replace the creature they lost. You play this in response to their sacrificing the creature, dealing them 4 damage and negating the life gain. If they sacced their Spiritualist on turn 3 for infinite life with no other creatures out (and it happens), they're in a pretty bad spot. (3rd turn: turn-1 land, Shuko, turn-2 land, Spiritualist, turn-3 pop)
4. Lava Spike sucks. It's a sorcery for starters, and it's only 3 damage (and there's a HUGE difference between 3 and 4, believe me).
5. Sulfuric Vortex is CRAP against Life compared to this in most cases, because Life usually packs 4 Seal of Cleansing maindeck.
1. 3 mana for 4 damage is quite efficient IMO.
2. How about Big Red? That's a fast red burn deck that uses Arc-Slogger and Kumano as a win condition.
3. It delays Extended Life until they can replace the creature they lost. You play this in response to their sacrificing the creature, dealing them 4 damage and negating the life gain. If they sacced their Spiritualist on turn 3 for infinite life with no other creatures out (and it happens), they're in a pretty bad spot. (3rd turn: turn-1 land, Shuko, turn-2 land, Spiritualist, turn-3 pop)
4. Lava Spike sucks. It's a sorcery for starters, and it's only 3 damage (and there's a HUGE difference between 3 and 4, believe me).
5. Sulfuric Vortex is CRAP against Life compared to this in most cases, because Life usually packs 4 Seal of Cleansing maindeck.
1: you might think so, but it really isn't. its average. if you've ever played an actual red deck, you'd understand this.
2: big red is not fast. big red is control. with a couple elements of aggro. dont bother mentioning ponza, it is not fast either
3: have you played big red? you tend to tap out 3rd turn. if your game plan is to sit around and play flames of the blood hand and cursed scroll activations 3rd turn you seriously have no idea what you are doing. besides, they can play around it anyway and just wait until you tap out. life combo is instant speed if you haven't noticed.
4: agreed. lava spike does suck. my point is that flames of the blood hand is 2 more mana (a far bigger difference than 3 damage to 4 damage). Then, even a card like lava spike, which as you agreed is terrible, is better than flames.
5: let me reiterate just how bad flames is against life. it does nothing. IF you have a bad hand so you can't do anything productive 3rd turn AND your opponent messes up and goes off when you have mana open then flames of the blood hand can, sometimes, delay them for about a turn.
edit: i just bothered to check, and no, life doesn't play 4 seal of cleansing.
Not to bad, decent replacement for Pulse of the Forge perhaps? At least its not a common, otherwise this could be crazy. Any one remember drafting Lava Axes in Legacy?
If I get this card in my bloody hand its going to be in flames.:flame:
This is trash and even worse it is not an arcane spell. Welcome to the worthless card bin my friend.
1: you might think so, but it really isn't. its average. if you've ever played an actual red deck, you'd understand this.
2: big red is not fast. big red is control. with a couple elements of aggro. dont bother mentioning ponza, it is not fast either
3: have you played big red? you tend to tap out 3rd turn. if your game plan is to sit around and play flames of the blood hand and cursed scroll activations 3rd turn you seriously have no idea what you are doing. besides, they can play around it anyway and just wait until you tap out. life combo is instant speed if you haven't noticed.
4: agreed. lava spike does suck. my point is that flames of the blood hand is 2 more mana (a far bigger difference than 3 damage to 4 damage). Then, even a card like lava spike, which as you agreed is terrible, is better than flames.
5: let me reiterate just how bad flames is against life. it does nothing. IF you have a bad hand so you can't do anything productive 3rd turn AND your opponent messes up and goes off when you have mana open then flames of the blood hand can, sometimes, delay them for about a turn.
edit: i just bothered to check, and no, life doesn't play 4 seal of cleansing.
Maybe not the Life deck you looked at, but all the Life decks I've seen run Seals of Cleansing. And Life won't be able to go off at instant speed after the Extended rotation unless it adds in Leonin Shikari. If I was playing RDW (because Big Red sucks in 1.x) and I knew I was playing against Life, I WOULD sit around and leave 3 mana open, because it would be the only way I could win. I'd only tap out if it would bring the opponent to 0.
i agree, istanbul, i was just about to post the same thing. it'll be great in limited, and i hope to get at least one at the PR. if it's arcane, though, it'll be insane in limited. an arcane block deck will emerge for sure, as well.
zorbop makes a number of excellent points. I dont need to restate why its such a bad piece of burn but i will say this: Even if Life does pack 4 seals of cleansing main, which not all do, but even if, vortex is still better than this chaff. Vortex takes a pro active stance against the combo and even does damage every turn, as opposed to forcing you to sit there and leave three mana. And if they do the eventually draw the seals, that may or may not even be playing, youve still dealt them 4-6 damage and held them off 2-3 turns, always better than the 1 turn and 4dmg that the bloody ahdn will buy you. Vortex is the better card for the job seals or no.
Why is everyone getting so excited about this in limited. 5 damage spells like lava axe are good because its a full quarter of their life, thats a huge chunk. 4 damage is not 5 damage and while sometimes you might be able to just "hand" em out of the game this situation will be rare indeed.
Maybe not the Life deck you looked at, but all the Life decks I've seen run Seals of Cleansing. And Life won't be able to go off at instant speed after the Extended rotation unless it adds in Leonin Shikari. If I was playing RDW (because Big Red sucks in 1.x) and I knew I was playing against Life, I WOULD sit around and leave 3 mana open, because it would be the only way I could win. I'd only tap out if it would bring the opponent to 0.
but thats completely irrelivant. after extended rotates rdw loses about half its deck. (cursed scroll, jackal pup, seal of fire, mogg fanatic, wasteland, rishadan port) and will have to become a fundementally different deck.
Meanwhile, life loses task force, the en-cor, mystical tutor (stirling grove is not a replacement), a few random echantments (including seal of cleansing), acadamy rector if they play it, and worthy cause.
it can replace the en-cor with equipment, but having only one creature to be sacked and only one thing to sac means the deck loses its consistancy.
Also note, that after the rotation, since they no longer have seal of cleansing, they would actually have to run 4 disenchant maindeck, instead of the 1 seal of cleansing with about 6 tutors for enchantments.
Hey, not a bad card i'll say that much. Compare it to lava spike like everyone else and its not nearly as good. I'd rather pay 2 less to have only 1 less damage and get rid of abilities that will maybe be useful 20% of the time (based on probability of them playing white) Plus it's not arcane which hurts in this environment.
As far as against Life in extended, meh. I don't claim to know a lot about the extended environment, but wouldn't sulfuric vortex be better? or even false cure? And if they are using a bought back worthy cause, the vortex is oodles better, costs the same and helps without you needing to save 3 mana every turn in response. Basically I don't think this card was made with Life in mind, I think it was just made to tick off people who play white.
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agree.. spike is faster, and better
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Do it in response to them saccing their guy...their abilities are usess with a creature that gets +0/+X from themm...good hoser...i imagine someone already said this but oh well
_____________
“Game over,” Lursen said. “Demon’s Horn.”
Demon’s Horn has a reputation in multiplayer games, Lursen said.“Usually if somebody in multiplayer plays a Demon’s Horn, we all just immediately attack that person, because he’s going to win,” Lursen said.
The card will probably fit in the new "philosophy of fire" deck concepts.
just my 2c.
"When you show up to the Mirrodin Besieged Prerelease, you'll be asked to choose a faction: Mirran, Phyrexian, or Jaded A-Hole" Aaron Forsythe, on Twitter
Everything changes, nothing remains without a change - Buddha
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Actually, Lava Spike isn't faster - it's a sorcery. It's also not better - it does less damage. I think the words you're looking for are "slower" and "worse". But yes, it's cheaper.
EDIT:
I'd say Carbonize is the closest we'll get to Incinerate.
.
Most red burn puts Lava Axe to shame. I agree that this is nice in limited, especially if it's Arcane. However, in constructed more versatile burn like Magma Jet, Volcanic Hammer, and Shrapnel Blast are going to stay on top.
EDIT: In block, IF this is Arcane, it will go nicely with Lava Spike and Glacial Ray. Just one more thing for you to splice the Glacial Ray onto. If it's not Arcane...it's not useless. Just not good.
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for those of you who dont understand let me explain to you why this card has no place in competetive play besides the rare sideboard if you are expecting a LOT of lifegain (and even then, it might be better just to play really quick EFFICIENT burn and kill them before the combo goes off).
Efficiancy: this is inefficiant. 3 mana for 4 damage is not that great. lava spike (dont get me wrong, it sucks), is 3 for 1, a far better deal. the reason pulse of the forge is played is that it can be used multiple times, being up to 12 or 16 damage over a seiries of turns with 1 card.
can't target creatures: there is no good fast red burn deck in standard, and other formats have better options for player damage. (exception: block- but i havent seen any lifegain in block either besides 1 bad white arcane spell). modern red decks require killing enemy creatures with burn for either control, or to clear the way for firewalkers and pups.
superior options: lets look at what this card does well. it negates life gain. it delays extended life gain for 1 turn (big whoop...). negating life gain in standard it pointless. if someone is playing nourish, then not only do they suck, but pulse is still a better option. with pulse they can play nourish 10 times and you will keep on getting pulse back. this has only a one time use. against white decks with pulse of the fields, this will do 4 damage and delay the fields use for 1 turn (after 4 damage they will get the pulse back). giving your opponent card advantage has never been a good plan.
so far, the only good point to this card is that in a rare ocation, it jumps from a janky sideboard and slows extended life down a turn. but think about it. if you are red deck wins, the ONLY reason to play this card is to help your life matchup. there is NO OTHER REASON as there is a better spell for every other match. However, this isnt even the best card for the life matchup, sulfuric vortex is.
for those of you who are still not convinced, think of the card everyone is comparing this to. LAVA SPIKE. enough said.
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1. 3 mana for 4 damage is quite efficient IMO.
2. How about Big Red? That's a fast red burn deck that uses Arc-Slogger and Kumano as a win condition.
3. It delays Extended Life until they can replace the creature they lost. You play this in response to their sacrificing the creature, dealing them 4 damage and negating the life gain. If they sacced their Spiritualist on turn 3 for infinite life with no other creatures out (and it happens), they're in a pretty bad spot. (3rd turn: turn-1 land, Shuko, turn-2 land, Spiritualist, turn-3 pop)
4. Lava Spike sucks. It's a sorcery for starters, and it's only 3 damage (and there's a HUGE difference between 3 and 4, believe me).
5. Sulfuric Vortex is CRAP against Life compared to this in most cases, because Life usually packs 4 Seal of Cleansing maindeck.
1: you might think so, but it really isn't. its average. if you've ever played an actual red deck, you'd understand this.
2: big red is not fast. big red is control. with a couple elements of aggro. dont bother mentioning ponza, it is not fast either
3: have you played big red? you tend to tap out 3rd turn. if your game plan is to sit around and play flames of the blood hand and cursed scroll activations 3rd turn you seriously have no idea what you are doing. besides, they can play around it anyway and just wait until you tap out. life combo is instant speed if you haven't noticed.
4: agreed. lava spike does suck. my point is that flames of the blood hand is 2 more mana (a far bigger difference than 3 damage to 4 damage). Then, even a card like lava spike, which as you agreed is terrible, is better than flames.
5: let me reiterate just how bad flames is against life. it does nothing. IF you have a bad hand so you can't do anything productive 3rd turn AND your opponent messes up and goes off when you have mana open then flames of the blood hand can, sometimes, delay them for about a turn.
edit: i just bothered to check, and no, life doesn't play 4 seal of cleansing.
This is trash and even worse it is not an arcane spell. Welcome to the worthless card bin my friend.
Maybe not the Life deck you looked at, but all the Life decks I've seen run Seals of Cleansing. And Life won't be able to go off at instant speed after the Extended rotation unless it adds in Leonin Shikari. If I was playing RDW (because Big Red sucks in 1.x) and I knew I was playing against Life, I WOULD sit around and leave 3 mana open, because it would be the only way I could win. I'd only tap out if it would bring the opponent to 0.
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Why is everyone getting so excited about this in limited. 5 damage spells like lava axe are good because its a full quarter of their life, thats a huge chunk. 4 damage is not 5 damage and while sometimes you might be able to just "hand" em out of the game this situation will be rare indeed.
but thats completely irrelivant. after extended rotates rdw loses about half its deck. (cursed scroll, jackal pup, seal of fire, mogg fanatic, wasteland, rishadan port) and will have to become a fundementally different deck.
Meanwhile, life loses task force, the en-cor, mystical tutor (stirling grove is not a replacement), a few random echantments (including seal of cleansing), acadamy rector if they play it, and worthy cause.
it can replace the en-cor with equipment, but having only one creature to be sacked and only one thing to sac means the deck loses its consistancy.
Also note, that after the rotation, since they no longer have seal of cleansing, they would actually have to run 4 disenchant maindeck, instead of the 1 seal of cleansing with about 6 tutors for enchantments.
Now, in constructed, because of the "can't be prevented" and stopping life gain, it could be useful.
As far as against Life in extended, meh. I don't claim to know a lot about the extended environment, but wouldn't sulfuric vortex be better? or even false cure? And if they are using a bought back worthy cause, the vortex is oodles better, costs the same and helps without you needing to save 3 mana every turn in response. Basically I don't think this card was made with Life in mind, I think it was just made to tick off people who play white.