As a quick aside about white being good and black being bad, MaRo addressed this during White Week at mtg.com. From his article:
I’d like to make a quick aside about white and the concept of “good.” Good and evil are labels used by people to signify whether something promotes their values or attacks their values. Something that promotes the values you believe in is good. Something that attacks the values you believe in is evil. Each color in Magic believes strongly in the thing it seeks. Therefore it sees itself as good and the enemies that oppose it as evil.
Many humans share some global beliefs (the taking of a human life is wrong, for example). Some of white’s tenets line up with some of these universal human beliefs. Therefore white is sometimes seen as the color of “good.” Ah, but white is neither inherently good nor evil. White, as well as every other color in Magic, will do things that can be labeled both “good” and “evil,” and even that might not be consistent from person to person. Preservation of life is very white. Most of you would probably classify that as “good.” Fascism is also very white. Most of you would probably classify that as “evil.”
I mention this because I believe it’s important to separate the white-black conflict from good versus evil. Morality versus amorality. Light versus dark. Purity versus corruption. The white/black conflict takes on many shades, but "good versus evil" is far too subjective to use properly. Let’s take one of the elements of the white/black conflict, the rights of the group versus the rights of the self. This conflict pits socialism versus capitalism. Capitalism is the black side of the argument. Is capitalism inherently evil? I don’t think so. (Although I know there are those that would disagree with me.) I’ll talk more about black (including its “good” side) when we get to Black Week.
This is continued in his Black Week article where he defends black saying it isn't always necessarily evil. I guess MaRo probably has the last word on the debate since he's a big part of dictating the philosophies of each color.
Enough of that, on to the best part: new art!!!!!
The first one really is gross, and I would assume is a Spirit. Possibly Legendary. Though I can't make any guesses on color. Possibly black.
The last one looks really, really cool. It seems to represent a creature, but could just as easily be a spell or enchantment. The two Ravnica arts released so far are really awesome. Hope that trend continues though the whole set.
Its still being questioned by some, so I'll layout my ideas why the 9E pic is jade statue.
Reference:
The Location
Notice its standing on a circular base, which is just big enough for it, as if made for it. The base is enclosed in a half circle concave, which means it would server no purpose other than having something standing on it (it doesnt reach to anything or lead anywhere). There is a port hole positioned in a direction so that light will flow at a specific angle onto it (which is done in art/sculpting to make it appear its best). The surrounding walls are beautiful, but are not eye catching (which enhances the figure, while not taking away from it). This means that either a political figure would be standing there, like a presidential podium, or a statue. Since the figure seems more brawn than brains, it would lend itself better to a statue.
The Figure
Its in a posed position, such as one would make a monument out of it. It is made of a single material - evident by the uniform color and shine. Its eyes glow red, which indicates a sentient being underneath - giving credence to a statue that can become alive. The figure is made of a green reflective stone - like Jade - as is his equipment and clothes. Given that his cloth pants, metal armor, and wooden-handled weapon are made of the same material, it would take magic to make such things move and act as they should. Such material would have to be "animated" in order to function properly.
So, I think its a statue made of Jade (or emerald, but no cards fit it being an emerald). That's either Jade Idol (just printed, set specific), Jade Monolith (doesn't animate, has no sentient intelligence), or Jade Statue (fits perfectly).
SaK: I think that Oni looks awesome. It looks very strong and wealthy, and probably holds a lot of power.
9th: Well, since it doesn't seems likely they would reprint Jade Idol in the base set, I am going to have to go with Jade Statue as well.
Rav: More white weenie. Fun.
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I also have to disagree with you. Communism is a VERY white philosophy and is generally considered, notice I said generally, evil, whereas Capitalism is a VERY black philosophy and is generally considered good.
And I am going to have to disagree with you.
Yes, Black is self-centered, in a very capitalistic way. But, White is group centered, in a very totalitarian way. White can occasionally have communist like qualities, but for the most part it is more good of the group.
And being evil has nothing to do with either capitalism or totalitarian ism any way. Nazi Germany was very white, in my opinion, because, for the most part, they were doing what they thought was right, for the improvement of the human race as a whole.
Not that I agree with them, I'm just sayin'...
EDIT: Fascism. thank you Saouro, that was the word I was looking for. White is Fascist not Communist.
@Coren: Of course there is good and evil, but it's allways in the eye of the beholder...
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I think people are confusing the issue by thinking that creatures are a certain colour, and that dictates their intentions and actions. No... creatures have intentions and actions, and that makes them a certain colour...
...White is white because it's good, and black is black because it's evil. White can't be evil, otherwise it wouldn't be white. Ertai wasn't black until he became twisted and warped, for example.
What I don't understand is how you get halfway in the right direction, only to throw it away in your last statement. The catch you're missing I think, is that the intentions and actions that make you a white creature aren't neceserrally (how do you write that word?) classified as "good" intentions and actions from our point of view. Again, it's in the eye of the beholder, and that's why white is usually labeled as "good" by most of us (and black as "evil" by the way).
On to the art... Sweeeeeeet! I can't wait for Ravnica to come around!
The first picture looks a bit like a swollen mutant fox if you ask me...
@ the RAV pic: Don't forget about Mirrodin's plot. The creatures in that plane were "relocated", no? Maybe this is the plane where the Leonin came from? It would also explain the Pteron-like creature it is riding...
I think the second card is yawgmoth's demon. just because it is green, doesn't mean the greeness fits with the flavor of the card. jade statue seems random when there are already have been many subsitutes in mirrodin (both indestructable and mana accellerators). see this article for more about art in relation to flavor. http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=mtgcom/feature/252
Ummm, when was the last time the "Play this ability only during combat" was used on a card? I agree it does look very much like a Jade Statue would look like, but maybe it is a reprint that doesn't have the clunky " Play this ability only during combat" part.
Savage Beating
That's the most recent time it's been used on a card. It actually hasn't been used on too many cards at all (18), and they've been spread out over the years. The set with the most cards with this wording is Ice Age.
R_E, you may want to look at these, in which Rosewater explains how white isn't necessarily good and black isn't necessarily evil.
Also during White Week:
Quote from Dec. 7 Magic Arcana »
s you may have read during White Week almost two years ago, White is not the color of good, but of peace and harmony by way of structure and organization. That structure and organization can sometimes take harsh forms -- in fact, nothing prevents White from taking a villainous role in a given setting, if circumstances are right.
I was hoping you were right too, apperantly not.....
SOK - Probably another legendary demon spirit. Really bored of this block (I have been since Champions was announced.) I don't like the art... yuck.
9th - Jade Statue was an uncommon in Alpha, Beta, and Unlimited (the 3 sets is was printed in). It wasn't ever on the reserved list, so is therefore reprintable. I think this artwork looks like it could be a jade statue, so that's a reasonable guess. The weapon, armour, and the creature itself make me think of a black creature, though. Serpent Warrior type thing. If it IS Jade Statue, it will be reprinted as a rare, just like Clone, Ernham, Ruhk Egg, and all the other reprints which didn't see play in a single deck, ever.
RAV - Please oh please let Magic be good again, when Ravnica comes out!?! Please let them put at least 30 playable cards in the set, and please let's never speak of soulshift or arcane as long as we live. This artwork looks good, fairly fantasy-like, and also a bit political... as the whole "city-guild" thing seems to be pointing us. I hope it's interesting, with a strong set of cards to build decks from.
As for white "being the bad colour", no. If white was evil, it would be black. What makes a creature white? The colour of its armour? The fact that it's currently standing on a plains? No, by its intentions, desires, and actions. If a creature is evil, malicious, hateful, and spiteful, it's black. Even if it has a blue sheild or red boots. The suggestion that white could be the evil colour is as silly as saying that maybe blue will be the random, hasty, unpredictable colour. No.
My first thought when seeing the Green 9th pic was... The Wrteched. But Jade Statue seems just obvious after reading it suggested.
And white does not equal good, and black does not equal evil. This specific issue has been brought up by Rosewater on more than one instance, specifically siting Han Solo as a black good guy. If you want a white evil guy, think Hitler. I have always thought Hand of Justice as being a very evil white card.
Edit: Sorry, saw the quoted post and had to comment on it. It appears 5 pages later this point is being discussed (still?). Didn't mean to come in in the middle of the conversation like a child.
SoK Oni-spirit thingamajig: Juicy. And kinky. What's that metal hook doing below its waist?
9th: If it was a proper creature, they won't print the art in that angle. Nope, I'm 99% sure it's a statue of some kind - If not Jade, then Sentinel.
Ravnica: Lovely. I hope Ravnica will be what Mercadia should have been. Sorry if this has been mentioned before, but are those war golems in the legion of soldiers below? Kinda reminds me of Escaflowne for some reason
Any one notice the Rider itself? It isn't human look at the legs either they are in one hell of an ornate riding thingy, or we get a new white race. yippe!
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Any one notice the Rider itself? It isn't human look at the legs either they are in one hell of an ornate riding thingy, or we get a new white race. yippe!
It looks like one hell of an ornate riding thingy. Notice the flying thingy's armor has a similar pattern. But then again, is it just me or does the arm that is holding the sword look like a claw. As for the tail...hmm, to me it looks like it could be anything. It looks rather thick to be a tail. The "tail" looks lepord spotted, I hope we don't have cat folk again so soon after Mirrodin.
Sentinal would really be awesome, more so than Jade Statue. Wizards knows we're not stupid. I don't think that they'd give away a card so easily. It really could be quite a few thigns, when you put the Jade aside
Skyhunter Skirmisher is extremely possible, because of its non-block specific name. I really think they want to keep it Standard legal for the rise of WW. Honestly, we all know that WW very well may chalenge for domination come Ravinca.
If they are leonin, there will be a storyline link to Mirrodin, Karn, Memnarch and with that, to Urza's himself. It would be interesting.
I hate to go off topic, but where are the stroyline links? I don't read the books, so I'm just curious.....I though they were making, and I quote from Aladdin, 'A Whole New World' when they made Mirrodin and Kamigawa and Ravnica and so on.
To add some input to the thread so as to not be so spammish......
I would really like to see skyhunter skirmisher back into the mix, however I don't recall a time that an Expansion set card saw reprint so soon in another Expansion. I know it can make haste into a Core Set, but it's only been two years.....
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For Kamigawa, Toshiro Umezawa is the long-lost decendant of Tetsuo Umezawa, a character from Legends.
SOK: It's most likely not ACOC. Book spoiler follows.
In the Betrayers novel, after Hidetsugu summoned ACOC, there was an excerpt that said ACOC and O-Kagachi could eventually fight and if they did, they would destroy each other. That means they are both on the same power level, and if O-Kagachi was too powerful for a card, so therefore is ACOC.
9th: I'm in the Jade Statue camp. It can't be Jade Idol, since Arcane is (as far as we know) a Block mechanic.
RAV: It may be a multicolor block, but this creature is definitely mono-W. My guess is it's just a vanilla, maybe 3/3 flying for 4. It doesn't look special in any way.
As about the white being bad, it may very well be true. White isn't just healing and heroism and love. White is also religion and with religion comes fanaticism - just remember Radiant and her fanatic angels in Urza block.
On the other hand, black may not be just evil or bent on destruction in every aspect. Black is basically not-caring color only with self-interest and ambition in mind. So you may have black as your ally (Repentant Vampire anyone?).
Still, while white may be the bad guys, black being the "good" guys would be far more interesting, if even possible...
I have a real feeling that there's not really going to be a good vs. evil theme running throughout the Ravnica block.
I think that they are using the setting -- a gigantic city -- as an excuse to color the creatures according to their philosophy, as opposed to their allegiance.
We may just see the King as a white creature, his advisor as a blue creature, his general as a black creature, and wife as a green creature, all the while being friends and fighting for the same thing.
Even better though, are the rumors that this block will be heavily gold themed, meaning that they will try and represent more complex personalities for the creatures as well. This will also probably mean some really interesting creatures with abilites you wouldn't usually see mixed on one creature.
thoughts?
peace
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Still, while white may be the bad guys, black being the "good" guys would be far more interesting, if even possible...
You mean like Toshiro Umezawa? Or Tetsuo?
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This is continued in his Black Week article where he defends black saying it isn't always necessarily evil. I guess MaRo probably has the last word on the debate since he's a big part of dictating the philosophies of each color.
Enough of that, on to the best part: new art!!!!!
The first one really is gross, and I would assume is a Spirit. Possibly Legendary. Though I can't make any guesses on color. Possibly black.
Second one is more than likely Jade Statue .
The last one looks really, really cool. It seems to represent a creature, but could just as easily be a spell or enchantment. The two Ravnica arts released so far are really awesome. Hope that trend continues though the whole set.
Archatmos
Excellion
Fracture: Israfiel (WBR), Wujal (URG), Valedon (GUB), Amduat (BGW), Paladris (RWU)
Collision (Set Two of the Fracture Block)
Quest for the Forsaken (Set Two of the Excellion Block)
Katingal: Plane of Chains
Reference:
The Location
Notice its standing on a circular base, which is just big enough for it, as if made for it. The base is enclosed in a half circle concave, which means it would server no purpose other than having something standing on it (it doesnt reach to anything or lead anywhere). There is a port hole positioned in a direction so that light will flow at a specific angle onto it (which is done in art/sculpting to make it appear its best). The surrounding walls are beautiful, but are not eye catching (which enhances the figure, while not taking away from it). This means that either a political figure would be standing there, like a presidential podium, or a statue. Since the figure seems more brawn than brains, it would lend itself better to a statue.
The Figure
Its in a posed position, such as one would make a monument out of it. It is made of a single material - evident by the uniform color and shine. Its eyes glow red, which indicates a sentient being underneath - giving credence to a statue that can become alive. The figure is made of a green reflective stone - like Jade - as is his equipment and clothes. Given that his cloth pants, metal armor, and wooden-handled weapon are made of the same material, it would take magic to make such things move and act as they should. Such material would have to be "animated" in order to function properly.
So, I think its a statue made of Jade (or emerald, but no cards fit it being an emerald). That's either Jade Idol (just printed, set specific), Jade Monolith (doesn't animate, has no sentient intelligence), or Jade Statue (fits perfectly).
Just my thoughts
No longer staff here.
Gaymers
9th: Well, since it doesn't seems likely they would reprint Jade Idol in the base set, I am going to have to go with Jade Statue as well.
Rav: More white weenie. Fun.
And I am going to have to disagree with you.
Yes, Black is self-centered, in a very capitalistic way. But, White is group centered, in a very totalitarian way. White can occasionally have communist like qualities, but for the most part it is more good of the group.
And being evil has nothing to do with either capitalism or totalitarian ism any way. Nazi Germany was very white, in my opinion, because, for the most part, they were doing what they thought was right, for the improvement of the human race as a whole.
Not that I agree with them, I'm just sayin'...
EDIT: Fascism. thank you Saouro, that was the word I was looking for. White is Fascist not Communist.
What I don't understand is how you get halfway in the right direction, only to throw it away in your last statement. The catch you're missing I think, is that the intentions and actions that make you a white creature aren't neceserrally (how do you write that word?) classified as "good" intentions and actions from our point of view. Again, it's in the eye of the beholder, and that's why white is usually labeled as "good" by most of us (and black as "evil" by the way).
On to the art... Sweeeeeeet! I can't wait for Ravnica to come around!
The first picture looks a bit like a swollen mutant fox if you ask me...
the second is yeah prolly the idol
the third looks like the leonin knights or sumting
No, it's not. The All Consuming Oni of Chaos is described basically as a bunch of floating moths, three eyes and two horns and red fog.
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Savage Beating
That's the most recent time it's been used on a card. It actually hasn't been used on too many cards at all (18), and they've been spread out over the years. The set with the most cards with this wording is Ice Age.
Also during White Week:
I was hoping you were right too, apperantly not.....
My first thought when seeing the Green 9th pic was... The Wrteched. But Jade Statue seems just obvious after reading it suggested.
And white does not equal good, and black does not equal evil. This specific issue has been brought up by Rosewater on more than one instance, specifically siting Han Solo as a black good guy. If you want a white evil guy, think Hitler. I have always thought Hand of Justice as being a very evil white card.
Edit: Sorry, saw the quoted post and had to comment on it. It appears 5 pages later this point is being discussed (still?). Didn't mean to come in in the middle of the conversation like a child.
9th: If it was a proper creature, they won't print the art in that angle. Nope, I'm 99% sure it's a statue of some kind - If not Jade, then Sentinel.
Ravnica: Lovely. I hope Ravnica will be what Mercadia should have been. Sorry if this has been mentioned before, but are those war golems in the legion of soldiers below? Kinda reminds me of Escaflowne for some reason
well the helm of kaldra was described with five stones and the shield was shaped like a croissant so what does it matter
Genesis Complete!!! 306/306
(Land centered mechanics Affinity for lands; Synergy with lands (Affinity for activated abilities)
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Awakening ?/180: Features Domain, with more land comes more mastery over the elements. Channel and Growth are expanded making landcasting more interesting.
It looks like one hell of an ornate riding thingy. Notice the flying thingy's armor has a similar pattern. But then again, is it just me or does the arm that is holding the sword look like a claw. As for the tail...hmm, to me it looks like it could be anything. It looks rather thick to be a tail. The "tail" looks lepord spotted, I hope we don't have cat folk again so soon after Mirrodin.
Skyhunter Skirmisher is extremely possible, because of its non-block specific name. I really think they want to keep it Standard legal for the rise of WW. Honestly, we all know that WW very well may chalenge for domination come Ravinca.
I hate to go off topic, but where are the stroyline links? I don't read the books, so I'm just curious.....I though they were making, and I quote from Aladdin, 'A Whole New World' when they made Mirrodin and Kamigawa and Ravnica and so on.
To add some input to the thread so as to not be so spammish......
I would really like to see skyhunter skirmisher back into the mix, however I don't recall a time that an Expansion set card saw reprint so soon in another Expansion. I know it can make haste into a Core Set, but it's only been two years.....
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SOK: It's most likely not ACOC. Book spoiler follows.
9th: I'm in the Jade Statue camp. It can't be Jade Idol, since Arcane is (as far as we know) a Block mechanic.
RAV: It may be a multicolor block, but this creature is definitely mono-W. My guess is it's just a vanilla, maybe 3/3 flying for 4. It doesn't look special in any way.
As about the white being bad, it may very well be true. White isn't just healing and heroism and love. White is also religion and with religion comes fanaticism - just remember Radiant and her fanatic angels in Urza block.
On the other hand, black may not be just evil or bent on destruction in every aspect. Black is basically not-caring color only with self-interest and ambition in mind. So you may have black as your ally (Repentant Vampire anyone?).
Still, while white may be the bad guys, black being the "good" guys would be far more interesting, if even possible...
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I think that they are using the setting -- a gigantic city -- as an excuse to color the creatures according to their philosophy, as opposed to their allegiance.
We may just see the King as a white creature, his advisor as a blue creature, his general as a black creature, and wife as a green creature, all the while being friends and fighting for the same thing.
Even better though, are the rumors that this block will be heavily gold themed, meaning that they will try and represent more complex personalities for the creatures as well. This will also probably mean some really interesting creatures with abilites you wouldn't usually see mixed on one creature.
thoughts?
peace
You mean like Toshiro Umezawa? Or Tetsuo?
Strengthen my steel should I falter
Smite my back should I flee
Save my soul should I fall
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