Like y'all said, the returning lands does not fit with the rest of the block. Sunburst didn't fit also, but flavorwise it was great, because of the fifth sun and all. So did the CC matters theme of Scourge; but it felt correct because of the big-ass expensive creatures of Onslaught. (Prophecy's Rhystic didn't fit at all with the rest of Masques block, but let's not go into that.)
Now, number of cards in hand fits with the theme of Wisdom, and high-cc creatures, plus soratami bouncing, plus ninjutsu, so it's not so out of place. But returning lands to hand in general (Not as a color-specific ability, 'natch) sound like they belong in another block altogether. (Like a Rhystic block. Oops, I said we wouldn't go into that.)
I'd believe this more if it was a return permanents to hand, as it allows for nifty Spiritcraft and Shoal tricks, resetting of flip cards with spent ki counters, etc.
ignoring the fact that the print info should have come early...
I doubt that it's keyworded if it's real, because it's just a more specific version of kicker. However, if that's the case then someone who works at printing wouldn't know about the name.
If this is frequent enough to be a "mechanic," its probably more than a cycle of five. However, sweep is pretty horrible unless combined with these "cards in hand" cards. (I mean, return X lands for +X/+X? Even if it did that to all my creatures for three mana i'd barely be impressed.)
I don't think Wizards would create too many cards that only are viable with cards from the same set. Gating wasn't only useful with Planeshift cards. If this is real I'll be sad, because returning lands is a disastrous tempo loss and the cards won't be playable unless they're ridiculous, in which case they'll be abused, since if they're playable for 3 lands they'll be overpowered for 8, and if they're playable for 8 they'll be crap for 3.
"Indominitable Will."
"Ha! You don't have enough cards in hand!"
"Yes I do, I returned 3 land cards to play that spell back then."
"Oh, okay. You're still an idiot for setting yourself back three turns like that."
"No, I have Azusa and Patron of the Moonfolk in play."
"Oh. That's pretty weak that Wizards would make cards that are only playable when one of two specific type-II legal cards are in play, and both are legendary."
"Yeah."
In conclusion, though it looks interesting it's a bad mechanic for more than one reason. I call fake.
ignoring the fact that the print info should have come early...
I doubt that it's keyworded if it's real, because it's just a more specific version of kicker. However, if that's the case then someone who works at printing wouldn't know about the name.
If this is frequent enough to be a "mechanic," its probably more than a cycle of five. However, sweep is pretty horrible unless combined with these "cards in hand" cards. (I mean, return X lands for +X/+X? Even if it did that to all my creatures for three mana i'd barely be impressed.)
I don't think Wizards would create too many cards that only are viable with cards from the same set. Gating wasn't only useful with Planeshift cards. If this is real I'll be sad, because returning lands is a disastrous tempo loss and the cards won't be playable unless they're ridiculous, in which case they'll be abused, since if they're playable for 3 lands they'll be overpowered for 8, and if they're playable for 8 they'll be crap for 3.
"Indominitable Will."
"Ha! You don't have enough cards in hand!"
"Yes I do, I returned 3 land cards to play that spell back then."
"Oh, okay. You're still an idiot for setting yourself back three turns like that."
"No, I have Azusa and Patron of the Moonfolk in play."
"Oh. That's pretty weak that Wizards would make cards that are only playable when one of two specific type-II legal cards are in play, and both are legendary."
"Yeah."
In conclusion, though it looks interesting it's a bad mechanic for more than one reason. I call fake.
As has everyone else with an ounce of sense. If this is real, then this card will be in Ravnica.
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The more I think about this, the less and less likely to be real it seems. And considering I wasn't believing in it in the first place, that's saying a lot.
If it's a very narrow additional cost, it's basically just a new kicker. Which we just had in Entwine. But at least Entwine was semi-interesting and went somewhere new that kicker hadn't been able to. Plus Entwine fit well with the very flexible nature of the Mirrodin block, it was one more peice that fit well in the overall puzzle. 'Sweep' doesn't have any of that. It's basically just a very narrow Kicker that amplifies an effect for a tempo loss. A tempo loss that runs completely against the high-cost legends thing the block has thus far been running on.
If it's on only a small cycle of 5, those cards will have a hard time fitting in or even being costed in a way that leaves them playable without being broken (see aurorasparrow's post above). If it's a mechanic the whole set depends upon, that doesn't leave a whole lot of room for any of the other mechanics we're expecting. Bushido, Spiritcraft, Soulshift, Shinen and Wisdom would all have to be shoe-horned in to make room for a bunch of cards either featuring or working to create synergy with this (IMO) bland and uninspired mechanic.
I don't think it's for real, but more than that, I just don't want it to be real.
Look at the visions card infernal harvest. It's essentially what he is describing.
Quote from Machius »
i'm sceptical, not because of who posted it(go to combat phase has been around since the start) but because it seems to be a complicated and hard to word mechanic(and sweep is a stupid name).
To those of you who think it is hard to word, try "As an additional cost to play <this>, return X lands to your hand."
Richard's Huggle - U
Instant
Sweep (As an additional cost to play <this>, return X lands to your hand.) Return X target creautres to their owners hand.
The thing is, they wouldn't bother keywording that. They'd just put it as your reminder text was.
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We all know that there has to be more offering mechanics in sok, otherwise why would they keyword a mechanic for just 5 cards?
What, like provoke and madness? Or scry? There's probably even more than that. Those are just the ones off the top of my head. Wizards keywords things because it's more convenient that way.
I really don't expect to see Offering again. Though it may come back in some capacity in the future, for some reason I just can't see it popping up again in Saviors. It strikes me to be this block's fading, madness or provoke. A mechanic that pops up in the middle set of a block, but doesn't carry over into the third set.
From the scan (which probably should be removed soon)
CHANNEL
Near the final days of the war, the veil between worlds became increasingly volatile. Kami with the channel-ability could focus their life-essence into a one-shot blast of energy instead of solidifying into a creature. If you’re holding Ghost-Lit Redeemer in your hand, you have a choice. You can pay W to play it as a nice normal creature… or you can pay 1W and discard it from your hand to gain 4 life. You can channel a creature whenever you could play an instant, and since this is an ability instead of a spell regular countering spells can’t stop it.
SWEEP
Some powerful spells can uproot the land itself. When you play a spell with the Sweep ability, you can return to your hand any number of your lands of the right type. The more lands you return, the more devastating the spell is. For example, when you play Sink into Takenuma, your opponent must discard a card for each Swamp you pick up.
You see, Brian Tinsman was on two design teams at once, Mirrodin and Scourge. (Due to the extra time needed for the large expansion, there are occasional design overlaps.) Around the same time he came to the Mirrodin team he also approached other members of the Scourge team (Worth Wollpert and Bill Rose) with the same idea. All this is fine. Brian's fatal flaw is that he didn't tell either team that he had pitched the mechanic to the other team...
You'll notice that I haven't really explained what the Mirrodin team did with the mechanic. There's a reason for that. We liked what we did, and we feel we could use it in the future. Not in the same environment as landcycling, but some length of time after it has left Standard. You see, having two different design teams work on the same idea created two different mechanics. One you get now. And the other? We'll get to it. I don't know when, but it's sitting in our bin of good ideas to dust off in a few years.
Sounds like we now know where the other cycling mechanic went, it's Channel
And kudos for 'Go to Combat Fase' for the first reporting of Sweep (and getting his thread closed as a thank you). I nominate him for the heroes-list!
And kudos for 'Go to Combat Fase' for the first reporting of Sweep (and getting his thread closed as a thank you). I nominate him for the heroes-list!
Thread re-opened.
Good work, Go to Combat Phase!
Hunter, you can't nominate anyone for the lists... they earn it, and if a mod notices, they're added.
I think sweep cards will be pretty crappy, so that they're not very playable because they would have huge interaction with the -maro creatures and a lot of the cards that get powerful when you have a huge hand.
Like splice onto arcane, which has basically 0 playable cards. They didn't want the mechanic to get out of control, because it theoretically is quite broken on paper, so they made all the splice cards crap.
I wouldn´t say splice doesn´t have playables. It´s a tweak on cantrip (instead of replacing itself with another card it replaces it with itself!) so it has to be nicely costed otherwise it can be really broken. But Glacial Ray, Blessed Breath, Soulless Revival and a few others are quite good and see some play.
I only closed the thread because it was baseless speculation at that point.
I left people open to contest it.
Noone did.
Good to see we had at least a little bit of advance info here.
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Sink into Takenuma - ?
Sorcery - Arcane? (C)
Sweep: As an additional cost to play this card, return X land you control to owner's hand.
Target player discards X cards
Are all the sweep cards going to end up under the rug?
Or could this be another discard outlet for reanimator?
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Now, number of cards in hand fits with the theme of Wisdom, and high-cc creatures, plus soratami bouncing, plus ninjutsu, so it's not so out of place. But returning lands to hand in general (Not as a color-specific ability, 'natch) sound like they belong in another block altogether. (Like a Rhystic block. Oops, I said we wouldn't go into that.)
I'd believe this more if it was a return permanents to hand, as it allows for nifty Spiritcraft and Shoal tricks, resetting of flip cards with spent ki counters, etc.
I doubt that it's keyworded if it's real, because it's just a more specific version of kicker. However, if that's the case then someone who works at printing wouldn't know about the name.
If this is frequent enough to be a "mechanic," its probably more than a cycle of five. However, sweep is pretty horrible unless combined with these "cards in hand" cards. (I mean, return X lands for +X/+X? Even if it did that to all my creatures for three mana i'd barely be impressed.)
I don't think Wizards would create too many cards that only are viable with cards from the same set. Gating wasn't only useful with Planeshift cards. If this is real I'll be sad, because returning lands is a disastrous tempo loss and the cards won't be playable unless they're ridiculous, in which case they'll be abused, since if they're playable for 3 lands they'll be overpowered for 8, and if they're playable for 8 they'll be crap for 3.
"Indominitable Will."
"Ha! You don't have enough cards in hand!"
"Yes I do, I returned 3 land cards to play that spell back then."
"Oh, okay. You're still an idiot for setting yourself back three turns like that."
"No, I have Azusa and Patron of the Moonfolk in play."
"Oh. That's pretty weak that Wizards would make cards that are only playable when one of two specific type-II legal cards are in play, and both are legendary."
"Yeah."
In conclusion, though it looks interesting it's a bad mechanic for more than one reason. I call fake.
4th place at CCC&G Pro Tour
Chances of bad hands (<2 or >4 land):
21: 28.9%
22: 27.5%
23: 26.3%
24: 25.5%
25: 25.1%
26: 25.3%
As has everyone else with an ounce of sense. If this is real, then this card will be in Ravnica.
https://twitch.tv/annorax10 (classic retro speedruns & occasional MTGO/MTGA screwaround streams)
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Okay - hee.
The more I think about this, the less and less likely to be real it seems. And considering I wasn't believing in it in the first place, that's saying a lot.
If it's a very narrow additional cost, it's basically just a new kicker. Which we just had in Entwine. But at least Entwine was semi-interesting and went somewhere new that kicker hadn't been able to. Plus Entwine fit well with the very flexible nature of the Mirrodin block, it was one more peice that fit well in the overall puzzle. 'Sweep' doesn't have any of that. It's basically just a very narrow Kicker that amplifies an effect for a tempo loss. A tempo loss that runs completely against the high-cost legends thing the block has thus far been running on.
If it's on only a small cycle of 5, those cards will have a hard time fitting in or even being costed in a way that leaves them playable without being broken (see aurorasparrow's post above). If it's a mechanic the whole set depends upon, that doesn't leave a whole lot of room for any of the other mechanics we're expecting. Bushido, Spiritcraft, Soulshift, Shinen and Wisdom would all have to be shoe-horned in to make room for a bunch of cards either featuring or working to create synergy with this (IMO) bland and uninspired mechanic.
I don't think it's for real, but more than that, I just don't want it to be real.
Archatmos
Excellion
Fracture: Israfiel (WBR), Wujal (URG), Valedon (GUB), Amduat (BGW), Paladris (RWU)
Collision (Set Two of the Fracture Block)
Quest for the Forsaken (Set Two of the Excellion Block)
Katingal: Plane of Chains
4th place at CCC&G Pro Tour
Chances of bad hands (<2 or >4 land):
21: 28.9%
22: 27.5%
23: 26.3%
24: 25.5%
25: 25.1%
26: 25.3%
Nope...
CoK had one Japanese word (Bushido)
BoK had one Japanese word (Ninjutsu)
SoK will have one Japanese word (Shirin)
Can we get past this Japanese word count debate and move on to calling fake on your mechanic?
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Richard's Huggle - U
Instant
Sweep (As an additional cost to play <this>, return X lands to your hand.)
Return X target creautres to their owners hand.
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...but they would, because they have reasons, like being able to make a card like this
Broom :2mana::symg:
Enchantment
Whenever you play a card with sweep, you may put a land card from your hand into play.
that is why wizards keywords everything
Thanks for the awesome sig Topher!
My Trades
MOTL
What, like provoke and madness? Or scry? There's probably even more than that. Those are just the ones off the top of my head. Wizards keywords things because it's more convenient that way.
I really don't expect to see Offering again. Though it may come back in some capacity in the future, for some reason I just can't see it popping up again in Saviors. It strikes me to be this block's fading, madness or provoke. A mechanic that pops up in the middle set of a block, but doesn't carry over into the third set.
Archatmos
Excellion
Fracture: Israfiel (WBR), Wujal (URG), Valedon (GUB), Amduat (BGW), Paladris (RWU)
Collision (Set Two of the Fracture Block)
Quest for the Forsaken (Set Two of the Excellion Block)
Katingal: Plane of Chains
We can only discuss this for so long, eh?
Until we get new info, this is just speculation now.
Make a thread there if you guys feel it appropriate.
Twitter
CHANNEL
Near the final days of the war, the veil between worlds became increasingly volatile. Kami with the channel-ability could focus their life-essence into a one-shot blast of energy instead of solidifying into a creature. If you’re holding Ghost-Lit Redeemer in your hand, you have a choice. You can pay W to play it as a nice normal creature… or you can pay 1W and discard it from your hand to gain 4 life. You can channel a creature whenever you could play an instant, and since this is an ability instead of a spell regular countering spells can’t stop it.
SWEEP
Some powerful spells can uproot the land itself. When you play a spell with the Sweep ability, you can return to your hand any number of your lands of the right type. The more lands you return, the more devastating the spell is. For example, when you play Sink into Takenuma, your opponent must discard a card for each Swamp you pick up.
It seems like one of those 'This mechanic should have occured a long time ago' mechanics.
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(O.o)
(> <)
This is bunny. Copy him into your signature to help him take over the world.
Agreed, although I expected it to have something to do with mana at first. Channel, Channel the Suns, Wirewood Channeler. . . even as I read I thought Elvish Spirit Guide!!
http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showpost.php?p=212682&postcount=1
Uhm, it did. Channeling is just Onslaught block cycling withut the draw. It's as if every cycler has a built-in stifle now.
Thread re-opened.
Good work, Go to Combat Phase!
Hunter, you can't nominate anyone for the lists... they earn it, and if a mod notices, they're added.
I think sweep cards will be pretty crappy, so that they're not very playable because they would have huge interaction with the -maro creatures and a lot of the cards that get powerful when you have a huge hand.
Like splice onto arcane, which has basically 0 playable cards. They didn't want the mechanic to get out of control, because it theoretically is quite broken on paper, so they made all the splice cards crap.
.
I only closed the thread because it was baseless speculation at that point.
I left people open to contest it.
Noone did.
Good to see we had at least a little bit of advance info here.
Twitter
Sink into Takenuma - ?
Sorcery - Arcane? (C)
Sweep: As an additional cost to play this card, return X land you control to owner's hand.
Target player discards X cards
Are all the sweep cards going to end up under the rug?
Or could this be another discard outlet for reanimator?