The way they word the title "Epic Spells Sales" definitely sounds like legendary instants/sorceries are possible. That would rock. Hard. Tell me you wouldn't play these:
Aura of Cleansing Fire- 1WW
Sorcery - Arcane
Epic (You may only play this spell once per game.)
Destroy all creatures.
Aura of Infinite Rage- 1RRR
Sorcery - Arcane
Epic (You may only play this spell once per game.)
Destroy all lands.
Epic sounds to me as if it was a game state, I mean, something like threshold.
For instance:
Call to arms :1mana::symw: (there's already a card with this name, though. Nevermind.)
Instant
Creatures you control get +1/+1 until end of turn.
Epic 2 - Creatures you control get +3/+1 instead and gain first strike until end of turn (you have Epic X if you control X or more legendary permanents).
Thoughts?
That mechanic would make my WWL deck broken in block - I approve :grin2:
Because you'd have to rewrite the whole legend rule anyway to accommodate the whole new kind of legendary card. They're not likely to do that when they've only just rejigged it.
The idea about Epic cards being restricted to one per deck is absolutely, definitively wrong. They abolished the Restricted List in competition formats for a reason, and that reason was the increased random element in having single copies of the most powerful cards.
I never said you can only run one copy. You may only play one copy during the course of the game. You can run 4, but if you draw them they'll be like a 12th land
Syzygy: Not good. It would make some games a fight to play their spell first in mirrors, the reason they changed the legend rule in the first place. My version lets each player play it once. No Lin-Sivvi madness.
The way they word the title "Epic Spells Sales" definitely sounds like legendary instants/sorceries are possible.
I'm afraid you're reading the advertisement wrong. It's an ad sent to gaming stores that buy Magic product to sell. The ad is trying to tell store owners that the new mechanics are going to cause sales to go up... so buy lots.
Replace "epic" with a different keyword, like trample. And replace "sales" with another similar word, like excitement. TRAMPLE SPELLS EXCITEMENT! Buy lots of 9th edition because players are going to be excited about trample!
The use of "spells" in "epic spells sales" is either unintentional and therefore confusing and unfortunate, or a poor attempt at a pun. Either way, "epic spells sales" doesn't necessarily mean there will be legendary sorceries in SOK.
You know what?? I actually like that Idea. I love the wizards promo. THE MOST POWERFUL CARDS EVER OMFG ROFLMFAO WOOOOT!!!!!111!!!!oneone!!!!!exclamationmark!!!...way to advertise wizards
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Official Weenie chef of ARD
Do you rogue? Accepting new members now!
The use of "spells" in "epic spells sales" is either unintentional and therefore confusing and unfortunate, or a poor attempt at a pun. Either way, "epic spells sales" doesn't necessarily mean there will be legendary sorceries in SOK.
Although not a sure thing, it would be the kind of horrible pun I would write. After all, my friends call me 'Shroom because I'm such a fun guy.
Epic (This spell may be played only once per game.)
It does not work as worded. That would mean that that card could not be played again. For it to work I think you would have to refere to the card name but that still probably would not work because what if after the spell was played it was removed from the game. There are so many rules problems with this I just do not see it being printed!
epic sounds like it could be something different then legendary sorceries/instants.. perhaps something like this:
Holy Justice
1WW
Epic 5 life (This spell cannot be played unless you have 5 or less life. If Holy Justice would be placed in a graveyard, remove it from the game instead.)
Destroy all creatures. You gain 1 life for each creature destroyed this way.
or, epic could be something like this...
Holy Justice
1WW
Epic (If you have an epic counter, you cannot play this spell. After playing Holy Justice, you get an epic counter.)
Destroy all creatures. You gain 1 life for each creature destroyed this way.
Following the idea of Epic spells as legendary, I'd suggest they are Instant versions of common Sorceries, but with a caveat: If an Epic spell enters the stack while another Epic spell with the same name is still on it, both Epic Spells are countered, removed from the stack and put into the graveyard by game rules, just like the new legendary rule for permanents. Wishfull thinking, perhaps, but who knows?
Something like:
Improved Concentrate - :2mana::symu::symu:
Instant
Epic (If another spell with the name Improved Concentrate is in the stack, counter both spells)
Draw three cards
"And you thought we wanted to hose blue" - R&D
----------------
Quote from solicete »
Moreover, if they were to print "legendary instants and sorceries", why did they print Final Judgement in Bok? Final Judgement would be an amazing legendary spell from a flavorwise point of view and should have been left for Sok in case R&D wanted legendary spells in this set.
Perhaps they plan to use Final Judgment in a base set to replace Wrath of God?
"You know that a conjurer gets no credit once he has explained his trick; and if I show you too much of my method of working, you will come to the conclusion that I am a very ordinary individual after all." - Sherlock Holmes
You would see some awesomely broken cards if that were the case, and Type 1 would have free day with it. I like the idea of having epic spells that you can only have one of. Makes more sense.
I really think "Epic" will be a cycle of cards. People rumored about the "echoing" and "Pulse" keywords, but they ended up being the name of a cycle. I believe this is the case here.
Although I do really like the ideas presented of Epic as a keyword...but I highly doubt it.
And it would have to be worded in a different way to work within the current rules.... so that you wouldn't have dead cards in hand.
Epic (When you play this spell, remove it from the game. Search your library, graveyard and hand and remove all other copies of this spell from the game.)
That way you could pack 4, but still only get one shot at playing it.
Something along those lines would work, but that's a pretty intensive reminder text.
Thoughts?
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
"Here only miracles. Here, only the rising of spirit. And yes, love if it was pertinent (which it was so often); and sometimes bloodletting. But never the prosaic, never the trivial. Here the man who brought the strangest tale was the most welcome. Here every excess was celebrated if it brought visions, and every vision analyzed for the hints it held to the nature of the Everlasting." - Clive Barker's Imajica
I think everyone is reading a little too much into the 'epic spells sales' thing. I don't think they will do legendary instants or sorcieries due to the 'fixes' they applied with the legend rule. I think 'epic' simply means that there will be a lot of cards in this set that are reallllly big and powerful. Like maybe all the spells/creatures have dramatic game changing effects like obliterate or platinum angel.
I doubt that "Epic" will be a one-off version of anything - legendary sorceries are just garbage (i.e. they don't work), and auto-restricted cards are a ridiculously unbalanced idea, and without any real drawback in Vintage.
When WotC says "the most powerful Magic cards ever", they certainly don't mean "the most competitive Magic cards ever" - they mean the biggest, hardest to play, most ridiculously costed Magic cards ever. Because, unless R&D just got hit by a bus, they're not about to make a card that's better than Mana Drain or Black Lotus. Not happening.
I suspect that epic spells will be spells of all spell types that you have the option of paying for over multiple turns. Kind of like the spell has a built-in Upwelling. It'll probably stay in RFG until you finish paying for it, at which point it will go on the stack. They'll cost some stupidly high amount of mana, have some needlessly big effect, and if the rest of this block is any indication, serve no competitve purpose other than to make Draco-Explosion appear somewhat more viable in Extended.
why wouldn't 'legendary' spells work? I made a cycle of restricted, uncounterable, rfg spells for each pair of colors. if thats what they wanted to do, the wiz's could probably pull it off...
why wouldn't 'legendary' spells work? I made a cycle of restricted, uncounterable, rfg spells for each pair of colors. if thats what they wanted to do, the wiz's could probably pull it off...
Agreed LTG, we have Legendary enchantments now, why not Sorceries and Instants?... Well, I can see why not, as there's no real need to put the legendary supertype on non permanent spells, perhaps it did cross R&D's minds to make legendary spells, but I doubt its possible function warranted it.
I know I harmlessly suggested that we may see 'Epic' as a keyword on some crazy powerful spells, I'd like to clear this up by saying it seems quite obvious it's just an ad promoting the set, the same way Wizards always does, by getting us to believe something overpowered is coming, when its simply just another expansion, some useful cards will be in this set for sure, but it'll take something drastic by the power's at Wizards R&D to make 'The most powerful Magic cards ever'.. and I just can't see that happening with Saviors.
:grin2: (Not that I don't like the block, in fact this is one of my fav's since invasion, it's just not that powerful, that's all)
Do you guys think these "epic" spells have some connection with those cards that are rumored to have been inspired by Alpha cards?...
Since they are advertised as powerful, they might be in a sense slightly toned down versions of power cards... Functional reprints in a Japanese setting to get around the reprint policy...
One thing is clear - if they make some restricted-use Instants and Sorceries, they WILL NOT be Legendary, simply because Legendary rule only effects permanents in play, and there was already ONE overhaul of it in the same block. Epic as supertype might work, though.
Aura of Cleansing Fire- 1WW
Sorcery - Arcane Epic (This spell may be played only once per game.)
Destroy all creatures If a spell named -this- was played this game, pay 2: Discard -this- and draw a card.
So what do you think?
Potentially viable, however I think that Wizards if they did such would likely word that different, because they seem to be preferring to rely on the cards to refer to other cards rather than an overall game state check. I think I worded that poorly, so I will try to modify your card to be what I would think WotC would template that as:
Aura of Cleansing Fire- 1WW
Sorcery - Arcane Epic (If there is a copy of this Spell in any Graveyard it may not be played.)
Destroy all creatures If a spell named -this- is in any graveyard, pay 2: Discard -this- and draw a card.
I grant that my template is worded poorly and it opens the door to graveyard recursion tricks. However, it follows the pattern of having game state easily checked and not relying on either players memories.
Threshold - Easy to check.
Morph - Easy visual to remind you of the fact that a card is morphed
Affinity - Easy to count number of artifacts
Flip Cards - Clear flip mechanism and when it is flipped you've got a different visual to remind you of it's state (at least it's never been a problem for me.)
I can't think of any mechanics recently that have had to rely on players recording any particular state of the game.
That said, I'm still not sold on any particular version of Epic.
The stack is one of the most basic advanced concepts in Magic. Spell that doesn't use it, it would be:
1. Uncounterable
2. It couldn't be reacted to in any way. Once you play it, it resolves. No returning cards to hand to save them from global destruction (for example). No damage prevention. No regeneration abilities can be played. I play it, it resolves. End of story.
Wouldn't you agree that a spell like this would indeed be one of "the most powerful cards"?
I've actually had that idea for a long time... that instants and sorceries could have an ability that made it so that no spells or abilities could be playd until it was resolved. I always thought that if it was made, it would probably be an upgrade cost... maybe even one that could help you with the spell:
Wrath of Armpit 2WWW
Sorcery
Destroy all creatures.
As an additional cost to play ~, you may remove one creature you control and one creature each opponent controls from the game. If you do, no additional spells or abilities may be played until ~ resolves.
Not saying that i think this is "epic", but i do think it is an interesting mechanic.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
To post a comment, please login or register a new account.
"So order wisely and save our Kamigawa sales!"
Gogo Rancored, ....and Caffine, ...and Hunter too
Great to get some more info on this one, the speculation has already begun... Epic Spells Sales, man I can't wait for this set!
Aura of Cleansing Fire- 1WW
Sorcery - Arcane
Epic (You may only play this spell once per game.)
Destroy all creatures.
Aura of Infinite Rage- 1RRR
Sorcery - Arcane
Epic (You may only play this spell once per game.)
Destroy all lands.
Im trying not to be pessimistic buy watch wizards release completey different ideas of epic and wisdom.
Trade thread
That mechanic would make my WWL deck broken in block - I approve :grin2:
Shadowmoor's Infinite combos
I never said you can only run one copy. You may only play one copy during the course of the game. You can run 4, but if you draw them they'll be like a 12th land
Syzygy: Not good. It would make some games a fight to play their spell first in mirrors, the reason they changed the legend rule in the first place. My version lets each player play it once. No Lin-Sivvi madness.
I'm afraid you're reading the advertisement wrong. It's an ad sent to gaming stores that buy Magic product to sell. The ad is trying to tell store owners that the new mechanics are going to cause sales to go up... so buy lots.
Replace "epic" with a different keyword, like trample. And replace "sales" with another similar word, like excitement. TRAMPLE SPELLS EXCITEMENT! Buy lots of 9th edition because players are going to be excited about trample!
The use of "spells" in "epic spells sales" is either unintentional and therefore confusing and unfortunate, or a poor attempt at a pun. Either way, "epic spells sales" doesn't necessarily mean there will be legendary sorceries in SOK.
.
Official Weenie chef of ARD
Do you rogue? Accepting new members now!
(:symrg:.:symrg:)
c(> <)
U U
Although not a sure thing, it would be the kind of horrible pun I would write. After all, my friends call me 'Shroom because I'm such a fun guy.
It does not work as worded. That would mean that that card could not be played again. For it to work I think you would have to refere to the card name but that still probably would not work because what if after the spell was played it was removed from the game. There are so many rules problems with this I just do not see it being printed!
Holy Justice
1WW
Epic 5 life (This spell cannot be played unless you have 5 or less life. If Holy Justice would be placed in a graveyard, remove it from the game instead.)
Destroy all creatures. You gain 1 life for each creature destroyed this way.
or, epic could be something like this...
Holy Justice
1WW
Epic (If you have an epic counter, you cannot play this spell. After playing Holy Justice, you get an epic counter.)
Destroy all creatures. You gain 1 life for each creature destroyed this way.
thoughts?
Official Weenie chef of ARD
Do you rogue? Accepting new members now!
(:symrg:.:symrg:)
c(> <)
U U
Something like:
Improved Concentrate - :2mana::symu::symu:
Instant
Epic (If another spell with the name Improved Concentrate is in the stack, counter both spells)
Draw three cards
"And you thought we wanted to hose blue" - R&D
----------------
Perhaps they plan to use Final Judgment in a base set to replace Wrath of God?
*****
ricklongo and RicardoLongo on MTGO
*****
Visit my gaming blog: http://www.gamingsweetgaming.blogspot.com
****************
Check out Rick's Picks, my PureMTGO article series
****************
Legendary Creature - Epic Dragon
Legendary Enchantment - Epic
Legendary Land - Epic Shrine
Instant - Epic
etc....
Although I do really like the ideas presented of Epic as a keyword...but I highly doubt it.
And it would have to be worded in a different way to work within the current rules.... so that you wouldn't have dead cards in hand.
Epic (When you play this spell, remove it from the game. Search your library, graveyard and hand and remove all other copies of this spell from the game.)
That way you could pack 4, but still only get one shot at playing it.
Something along those lines would work, but that's a pretty intensive reminder text.
Thoughts?
When WotC says "the most powerful Magic cards ever", they certainly don't mean "the most competitive Magic cards ever" - they mean the biggest, hardest to play, most ridiculously costed Magic cards ever. Because, unless R&D just got hit by a bus, they're not about to make a card that's better than Mana Drain or Black Lotus. Not happening.
I suspect that epic spells will be spells of all spell types that you have the option of paying for over multiple turns. Kind of like the spell has a built-in Upwelling. It'll probably stay in RFG until you finish paying for it, at which point it will go on the stack. They'll cost some stupidly high amount of mana, have some needlessly big effect, and if the rest of this block is any indication, serve no competitve purpose other than to make Draco-Explosion appear somewhat more viable in Extended.
Agreed LTG, we have Legendary enchantments now, why not Sorceries and Instants?... Well, I can see why not, as there's no real need to put the legendary supertype on non permanent spells, perhaps it did cross R&D's minds to make legendary spells, but I doubt its possible function warranted it.
I know I harmlessly suggested that we may see 'Epic' as a keyword on some crazy powerful spells, I'd like to clear this up by saying it seems quite obvious it's just an ad promoting the set, the same way Wizards always does, by getting us to believe something overpowered is coming, when its simply just another expansion, some useful cards will be in this set for sure, but it'll take something drastic by the power's at Wizards R&D to make 'The most powerful Magic cards ever'.. and I just can't see that happening with Saviors.
:grin2: (Not that I don't like the block, in fact this is one of my fav's since invasion, it's just not that powerful, that's all)
Since they are advertised as powerful, they might be in a sense slightly toned down versions of power cards... Functional reprints in a Japanese setting to get around the reprint policy...
Thoughts?
Potentially viable, however I think that Wizards if they did such would likely word that different, because they seem to be preferring to rely on the cards to refer to other cards rather than an overall game state check. I think I worded that poorly, so I will try to modify your card to be what I would think WotC would template that as:
Aura of Cleansing Fire- 1WW
Sorcery - Arcane
Epic (If there is a copy of this Spell in any Graveyard it may not be played.)
Destroy all creatures
If a spell named -this- is in any graveyard, pay 2: Discard -this- and draw a card.
I grant that my template is worded poorly and it opens the door to graveyard recursion tricks. However, it follows the pattern of having game state easily checked and not relying on either players memories.
Threshold - Easy to check.
Morph - Easy visual to remind you of the fact that a card is morphed
Affinity - Easy to count number of artifacts
Flip Cards - Clear flip mechanism and when it is flipped you've got a different visual to remind you of it's state (at least it's never been a problem for me.)
I can't think of any mechanics recently that have had to rely on players recording any particular state of the game.
That said, I'm still not sold on any particular version of Epic.
Just some thoughts,
Jeff
L2 Judge & Store Owner
Imagine thing like this:
Epic (This spell doesn't use the stack.)
The stack is one of the most basic advanced concepts in Magic. Spell that doesn't use it, it would be:
1. Uncounterable
2. It couldn't be reacted to in any way. Once you play it, it resolves. No returning cards to hand to save them from global destruction (for example). No damage prevention. No regeneration abilities can be played. I play it, it resolves. End of story.
Wouldn't you agree that a spell like this would indeed be one of "the most powerful cards"?
Wrath of Armpit 2WWW
Sorcery
Destroy all creatures.
As an additional cost to play ~, you may remove one creature you control and one creature each opponent controls from the game. If you do, no additional spells or abilities may be played until ~ resolves.
Not saying that i think this is "epic", but i do think it is an interesting mechanic.